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C3RN	Posted - 2006.01.16 08:16:00 - [1] In GENERAL who would 1v1 in pvp. HAC or tech 2 battlecruiser (command ships) ?
Asurix	Posted - 2006.01.16 08:19:00 - [2] Command ships, count on it
LWMaverick	Posted - 2006.01.16 08:23:00 - [3] Yup.. in most cases the T2 Bc (at least the Field command one), will tear most hac's apart. /Mav With great power, comes great responsibility.
C3RN	Posted - 2006.01.16 08:26:00 - [4] Ok, then 1 more thing... Caldari, Gallente, or amarr?? In YOUR opinion.
Asurix	Posted - 2006.01.16 08:29:00 - [5] I think the vulture (which is a fleet command but nighthawk is ******) will tear apart anything, then absolution, then Astarte. Depends on where your specialty lies I guess. Try Absolution. (Amarr)
Malthros Zenobia	Posted - 2006.01.16 08:31:00 - [6] I'm going with the HACs winning. HACs are built with high damage and strong tanking in mind. T2 BCs are not. Strong Offense and Defense is not their main job, and if they simply dominate HACs, then CCP has failed in their setup of those ships, as they are not ment to replace HACs as an offensive and defensive ship. Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu I'm probably one of the biggest Bush fanboys in Eve... This is like, Darth Vader, can't-reach-climax-without-killing-a-puppy evil.
Mina Roberts	Posted - 2006.01.16 08:33:00 - [7] Originally by: Malthros Zenobia I'm going with the HACs winning. HACs are built with high damage and strong tanking in mind. T2 BCs are not. Strong Offense and Defense is not their main job, and if they simply dominate HACs, then CCP has failed in their setup of those ships, as they are not ment to replace HACs as an offensive and defensive ship. Why dont you look at the absolution, its better than the zealot in just about every way except for speed.
Asurix	Posted - 2006.01.16 08:34:00 - [8] HAC--> CS = Cruiser-->BC check slots, PG, and armor, CS eat HAC's alive
Hal Mondo	Posted - 2006.01.16 08:38:00 - [9] Its gotta be the BC's - have you seen the shield bonuses???? ----------------------------- Play those vibes!
Indy Boy	Posted - 2006.01.16 08:46:00 - [10] I like the minmatar one, because it can shield tank like beast and deal lots of damage with 7x 720mm II artillery or with 7x 425mm II autocannos
LWMaverick	Posted - 2006.01.16 08:47:00 - [11] Edited by: LWMaverick on 16/01/2006 08:48:38 Originally by: Malthros Zenobia I'm going with the HACs winning. HACs are built with high damage and strong tanking in mind. T2 BCs are not. Strong Offense and Defense is not their main job, and if they simply dominate HACs, then CCP has failed in their setup of those ships, as they are not ment to replace HACs as an offensive and defensive ship. You sir, are clueless... Completly... Utterly totally and extremly clueless... Try look at the Absolution again... Takes it resistances, throw those extra 25% resist(with factor), its high power grid, its 25% RoF bonus, 25% damage bonus and 50% less cap usage...(at lvl 5 ofc) TELL ME.. is it not built for tanking and great damage? With great power, comes great responsibility.
FoRGyL	Posted - 2006.01.16 09:28:00 - [12] T1 BC takes HACS so guess what a T2 does? -out- ********************************************************* Pay or don't!
Jin Entres	Posted - 2006.01.16 09:34:00 - [13] Here's what I'm planning for my Astarte: 4 Heavy Neutron Blaster II 3 Heavy Ion Blaster II 1 10MN MWD II 1 Dark Blood Warp Scrambler 1 True Sansha Stasis Webifier 1 Medium Electrochemica Cap Injector 3 Magnetic Field Stabilizer II 1 Medium Armor Repairer II 1 Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II 1 Armor Explosive Hardener II 5 Medium Drones 532.75 / 550 tf CPU 1799.56 / 1812.50 MW PG It's a mini-blasterthron, really, with less hp than one but all round enhanced everything else. I would go as far as to guess that it would rip any non-capital ship apart given that the fight starts close enough.
Grimwalius d'Antan	Posted - 2006.01.16 09:37:00 - [14] I think that in a live situation, neither would win. The HAC wouldn't be able to break the tank, and the COM wouldn't be able to hold the HAC long enough to kill it. In an arranged "fight until death" situation where tactical retreats are not allowed, the money is definately on the COM until proven otherwise.
Zarks	Posted - 2006.01.16 09:47:00 - [15] Depends on what you want to fight I guess, vs a geddon I would much rather be in a HAC then a mini-battleship. ___________________________________________________ Looking for Chelm/Draclira mega beam lasers. Also looking for cruise launcher II BPO, isk available.
Ithildin	Posted - 2006.01.16 09:52:00 - [16] It's a simple matter. The Command Ship's main weaknesses are large signature radius and slow speed. Against a cruiser sized vessel, the signature radius can be ignored as a decisive factor and the speed can be overcome by the higher amount of slots on the BC. In terms of power, the deffinite damage doer is the Absolution, unless you wish to count on the much shorter ranged Astarte with blasters. They all have their uses, I should say. Of the new lines of ships CCP released, these Command ships were actually well thought-through all over. (Gall Carrier has the most compatible/best bonus for it's role, Amarr and Gall interdictors are crap, Gall Recon are crap and the Minm Recon isn't the brightest tool) As for the question "Amarr, Caldari or Gallente?" I find myself answering "Yes". It's up to you. I would recommend Caldari AND Gallente, however. They both have admirable railgun boats, which makes for very compatible dual-racing (so to speak). The Gallentean are perhaps the most diverse of the two in that it has the Eos with drones, while the Siege Warfare modules the Vulture is perfected for is perhaps slightly more attractive than the Information Warfare modules. Never discount the Nighthawk. It might not be the most damaging out there, but it's T1 Heavy Missiles perform almost like precision heavies against smaller ships! It has +10% explosion velocity (more damage against fast opponents) from hull and -5% explosion radius (smaller the radius, the more of the damage is aplied on smaller targets) from Command Ship level. (A heavy missile with max skills will have 84.4m explosion radius, which makes it do 100% damage against non-Minm destroyers and larger ships) However, I myself, am something of a Gallente/Amarr hybrid. Religious fanatic Intaki philosopher. And MC has yet to get Gallente RMR ships... I'll train for the Amarr Command Ships, really. The stylii-domain is down. Use http://mc.kladdpapper.com/forum/ to access MC's forums.
FoRGyL	Posted - 2006.01.16 10:09:00 - [17] Edited by: FoRGyL on 16/01/2006 10:09:50 For you out there that have looked into to these new ships or have thoughts, how would the Sleipner stand to others ? Feels slow but 7 Autos feels like it would hurt but got 1 less dmgboni to the most others if I get it right? Haven't heard about any of the minnys! -out- ********************************************************* Pay or don't!
Asurix	Posted - 2006.01.16 10:25:00 - [18] Basically IMO a Command ship is a better version of a HAC, lower speed, more slots, better armor, about same bonusses. Absolution looks crazy, Astarte looks nice since I like blasters, Vulture will eat people alive
Oriana Fallaci	Posted - 2006.01.16 12:56:00 - [19] I think the roles of HACs and CSs should be more nuanced. Right now, I think the tactical role differences between them arent big enough. Sure, the CS have much more firepower and are slower, but youve got some pretty slow HACs as well, which are completely dominated by their CS counterparts. A suggestion might be to further increase the difference between shield and armor HP, but also the difference between speed, mass, agility, and signature radius. Make the HACs mainly vagabond style blitzkrieg vessels, and the CS the slow, sluggish, but incredibly tough core of the fleet. You might also want to emphasize this aspect by giving less warp speed to them than to the HACs.
Gronsak	Posted - 2006.01.16 13:15:00 - [20] Edited by: Gronsak on 16/01/2006 13:22:39 Originally by: Jin Entres Edited by: Jin Entres on 16/01/2006 09:51:16 Here's what I'm planning for my Astarte: 4 Heavy Neutron Blaster II 3 Heavy Ion Blaster II 1 10MN MWD II 1 Dark Blood Warp Scrambler 1 True Sansha Stasis Webifier 1 Medium Electrochemica Cap Injector 3 Magnetic Field Stabilizer II 1 Medium Armor Repairer II 1 Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II 1 Armor Explosive Hardener II 5 Medium Drones 532.75 / 550 tf CPU 1799.56 / 1812.50 MW PG It's a mini-blasterthron, really, with less hp than one but all round enhanced everything else. I would go as far as to guess that it would rip any non-capital ship apart given that the fight starts close enough. edit: and to "any non-capital ship" I'll make the exclusion of ships specificly fitted to kill one, ie. mostly nos setups like the suckadomi for example. this vs a AC tempest or blasterthron would be very very interesting. ive killed a plated ishtar pretty quick in a blasterthron. it has higher resistances then you do. and had 2 energized adaptives + otehr tank. so i was hitting it at the highest resistances and he went down pretty fast. i would assume the same with this t2 BC. u have lower resistance and less HP. so i would assume vs a close range BS they would die. but it would be dam close. hitting u with t2 thermal heavys. id get 75DPS through ur armor. hitting u with 650DPS guns. 145DPS through ur armor. total of 220DPS.u rep 50 per sec. 170DPS through ur armor clean. a suprising 25sec to rip through ur armor. so id say under 60sec to pop u totally. not so uber. personally id try fit 2 med t2 reps and loose one mag stab [3rd one doesnt add much anyways] TBH no ship can tank a good gedden,blasterthron,AC tempest indefinitly. question is would u kill me before i kill you. BTW what is ur dmg output on that setup? wow would be a very close fight, just figured out that your guns would do about the same DPS as my blasterthron guns. ull have near 750DPS on that thing including droens, very nice. i get just a little over 1000DPS on my blasterthron including drones. but ur extra kin resistances make that up. so its ur 4.25k tank with med rep. vs my 10k tank with med rep :P would be a very close very interesting fights. id just hope u where webbed at 10km and slowed/stoped at 5km or higher so u do a bit less dmg.
Randuin MaraL	Posted - 2006.01.16 13:18:00 - [21] Originally by: C3RN Ok, then 1 more thing... Caldari, Gallente, or amarr?? In YOUR opinion. I have tested all of them and I vote for the caldari one. Never be in the company of anyone with whom you would not want to die. MEDUSA veteran, Khumaak Award winner http://members.aol.com/pacalbalan/TheParatwa/Randuin2.jpg
Gariuys	Posted - 2006.01.16 13:22:00 - [22] Re:Gronsak Not a alt of the guy you asked the question off, but can answer it. It puts out (using void M, which would be the optimal ammo against a battleship ) over 1000dps from guns on 2 mag fields. ~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~ A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool
Gronsak	Posted - 2006.01.16 13:32:00 - [23] Originally by: Gariuys Re:Gronsak Not a alt of the guy you asked the question off, but can answer it. It puts out (using void M, which would be the optimal ammo against a battleship ) over 1000dps from guns on 2 mag fields. that is very impressive. i get the same 900DPS useing void on a blasterthron.but my drones add anotehr 250dps. so near enough the same DPS as a blasterthron. and a similar tank advantage over a blasterthron: its gona take a bit less dmg from torps [25% less dmg] its guns have higher tracking thus will hit things easier. higher resistances: less EM resistance then a blasterhtron, a little more exp resistance. a little mroe thermal resistance. a lot more kin ersistance. faster lock time disadvantage: 400mils isk. less range. slighly less dps. its definitly a nice ship. but persoanlly imo time to train skills and price tag isnt worth it. can definitly be made to kill any other ship in game. truly nice ship.
Jin Entres	Posted - 2006.01.16 13:55:00 - [24] Would indeed be interesting to see how a blaterthron matchup would turn out, assuming similar skills. A blasterthron is pretty hard to fit with t2 guns and a tank, though isn't it? It's hard to say how much a difference the medium guns' tracking will make, but I guess I'll just have to test that out when I get on the wheel. It's quite a risk, you're right, and requires more skills than a blasterthron so it's obviously not the choice for everyone. The third mag stab could always be replaced by another EANM II for better survivability. The grid is too tight to fit another repper without ditching something important. I could do that with a 6 ion 1 neutron setup, though, but that would show on damage output. I'm looking forward to this beauty very much. Quote: Battlecruisers / Rank 6 / SP: 1123013 of 1536000 +Currently training to: level 5 +Time left: 8 days, 2 hours, 25 minutes, 18 seconds
Crellion	Posted - 2006.01.16 15:10:00 - [25] Actually tech I BC powns HACs if not same res race... (proph > caldari, cyclone > gallente, brutix > minnie/ ammar) I would think... Of course, for example, killing a Deimos or a Beagle in a Brutix is a bit of an issue due to natural resists (emphasis on natural it means they dont melt away when Nosed to death). On topic: Nighthawk rulz all (inside my head anyway cause I wont have skills for that for a long time)
Gronsak	Posted - 2006.01.16 15:18:00 - [26] Originally by: Jin Entres Would indeed be interesting to see how a blaterthron matchup would turn out, assuming similar skills. A blasterthron is pretty hard to fit with t2 guns and a tank, though isn't it? It's hard to say how much a difference the medium guns' tracking will make, but I guess I'll just have to test that out when I get on the wheel. It's quite a risk, you're right, and requires more skills than a blasterthron so it's obviously not the choice for everyone. The third mag stab could always be replaced by another EANM II for better survivability. The grid is too tight to fit another repper without ditching something important. I could do that with a 6 ion 1 neutron setup, though, but that would show on damage output. I'm looking forward to this beauty very much. Quote: Battlecruisers / Rank 6 / SP: 1123013 of 1536000 +Currently training to: level 5 +Time left: 8 days, 2 hours, 25 minutes, 18 seconds a blasterthron is impossible to fit with a tank and good guns. but u can fit a rack of neutrons, a large nos/neut webber, 20km, sensor booster, med cap injecter 2dmg mods, 3 energized adaptive nanos t2, 1 tungston plate, 1 med repper. gives like 10k armor and have 5k shieds and 7.5k structure. dmg output is over 1000dps. i think you can reach 1250 useing t2 ammo.
MECHcore	Posted - 2006.01.16 15:44:00 - [27] 3 weeks to go then i can fly me Vulture I flyed me eagle for more then a year mostly for pvp use , now its time for an upgrade
Hllaxiu	Posted - 2006.01.16 16:42:00 - [28] Originally by: Jin Entres Edited by: Jin Entres on 16/01/2006 09:51:16 Here's what I'm planning for my Astarte: 4 Heavy Neutron Blaster II 3 Heavy Ion Blaster II 1 10MN MWD II 1 Dark Blood Warp Scrambler 1 True Sansha Stasis Webifier 1 Medium Electrochemica Cap Injector 3 Magnetic Field Stabilizer II 1 Medium Armor Repairer II 1 Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II 1 Armor Explosive Hardener II 5 Medium Drones 532.75 / 550 tf CPU 1799.56 / 1812.50 MW PG Swap a MFS for a power diagnostic and you can fit 5x neutrons and 2x ions. I actually never did the math to see if that did more or less damage.... You can also fit 5x heavy neutrons and 2x medium nos 2s with a tech 1 RCU. Quote: It's a mini-blasterthron, really, with less hp than one but all round enhanced everything else. I would go as far as to guess that it would rip any non-capital ship apart given that the fight starts close enough. edit: and to "any non-capital ship" I'll make the exclusion of ships specificly fitted to kill one, ie. mostly nos setups like the suckadomi for example. Most Raven and Tempest setups will have nosses on them, because of that its very hard to fight them. Especially ravens with javelins or fury cruise missiles. Even standard torpedos will rip you apart, so tread lightly. For example: [ 2006.01.14 23:35:28 ] (combat) <color=0xffbb6600>Wrath Fury Cruise Missile belonging to USA4 hits you, doing 625.6 damage. That of course was a structure hit... [ 2006.01.14 23:34:20 ] (combat) <color=0xffbb6600>Wrath Fury Cruise Missile belonging to USA4 hits you, doing 128.5 damage. was on armor... In sparring with a corpmate, even 2x medium nosses + medium electrochems wouldn't let you survive 2x heavy noses. Since nosses are very common in short range setups, it probably isn't a good idea to engage many pvp battleships 1vs1. That said however, you can't argue with the damage output...
Dr Smacktalk	Posted - 2006.01.16 17:44:00 - [29] All nice and dandy for the price until the blob arrives. Poof 400million isk gone in less than 30 seconds.
Crellion	Posted - 2006.01.16 18:42:00 - [30] Originally by: Dr Smacktalk All nice and dandy for the price until the blob arrives. Poof 400million isk gone in less than 30 seconds. QFT (and I d rather be with the ones arriving tbh)

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