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HAC or T2 BC ?

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NoNameNewbie	Posted - 2006.01.16 18:59:00 - [31] Originally by: Dr Smacktalk All nice and dandy for the price until the blob arrives. Poof 400million isk gone in less than 30 seconds. 50 isk for u being primary and getting instapopped :S anyways QFT
Valea Silpha	Posted - 2006.01.16 19:04:00 - [32] I still don't like how the T2 BC have been implemented. The idea of 'command' to me says that they should be durable enough to stay in the conflict, but not be a step-up in damage. Since you can effectively ignore the link bonuses and just fly it as a solo pwnmobile , it stops it being a command ship, and starts being just the next one up from a HAC when you get bored of owning everything as it is. If its a command ship make it fit the role more tightly. All the other t2 ships seem to have very specific purposes and outside of that they aren't much good (deprive an inty of its speed and it becomes a big frig... catch a deimos at 50km and its not much of an obstical). I saw them much more as being like this, with other ships around them they are uber. Without them , they are toast.
Jin Entres	Posted - 2006.01.16 19:18:00 - [33] Originally by: Valea Silpha I still don't like how the T2 BC have been implemented. The idea of 'command' to me says that they should be durable enough to stay in the conflict, but not be a step-up in damage. Since you can effectively ignore the link bonuses and just fly it as a solo pwnmobile , it stops it being a command ship, and starts being just the next one up from a HAC when you get bored of owning everything as it is. If its a command ship make it fit the role more tightly. All the other t2 ships seem to have very specific purposes and outside of that they aren't much good (deprive an inty of its speed and it becomes a big frig... catch a deimos at 50km and its not much of an obstical). I saw them much more as being like this, with other ships around them they are uber. Without them , they are toast. There are two things that would help them fit the role better: 1) Squadron Command requirement back to V. 2) 2 of the skill bonuses to command modules and/or effects (could even wield a passive effect without any mods), and their bonii substantial.
Hllaxiu	Posted - 2006.01.16 19:28:00 - [34] Originally by: Jin Entres There are two things that would help them fit the role better: 1) Squadron Command requirement back to V. 2) 2 of the skill bonuses to command modules and/or effects (could even wield a passive effect without any mods), and their bonii substantial. 1. Go ahead, I already have Command Ships 4. 2. Agreed. Has anyone flown a fleet command ship yet? How is the bonus applied? I don't have an Eos to play with right now, nor have information warfare specialist (yet)... If its just a 1.08 multiplier thats kind of sad especially compared to the 5.00 multiplier from specialist 4 and the 1.4 multiplier from squadron command 4.
Malthros Zenobia	Posted - 2006.01.16 23:21:00 - [35] Originally by: LWMaverick Edited by: LWMaverick on 16/01/2006 08:48:38 Originally by: Malthros Zenobia I'm going with the HACs winning. HACs are built with high damage and strong tanking in mind. T2 BCs are not. Strong Offense and Defense is not their main job, and if they simply dominate HACs, then CCP has failed in their setup of those ships, as they are not ment to replace HACs as an offensive and defensive ship. You sir, are clueless... Completly... Utterly totally and extremly clueless... Try look at the Absolution again... Takes it resistances, throw those extra 25% resist(with factor), its high power grid, its 25% RoF bonus, 25% damage bonus and 50% less cap usage...(at lvl 5 ofc) TELL ME.. is it not built for tanking and great damage? Actually, I was looking at the nighthawk, and thinking how it simply won't touch a Cerb that can move faster than it, because it'll just hit it from outside the BC's range. Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu I'm probably one of the biggest Bush fanboys in Eve... This is like, Darth Vader, can't-reach-climax-without-killing-a-puppy evil.
Sarmaul	Posted - 2006.01.16 23:30:00 - [36] Originally by: Valea Silpha I still don't like how the T2 BC have been implemented. The idea of 'command' to me says that they should be durable enough to stay in the conflict, but not be a step-up in damage. Since you can effectively ignore the link bonuses and just fly it as a solo pwnmobile , it stops it being a command ship, and starts being just the next one up from a HAC when you get bored of owning everything as it is. If its a command ship make it fit the role more tightly. All the other t2 ships seem to have very specific purposes and outside of that they aren't much good (deprive an inty of its speed and it becomes a big frig... catch a deimos at 50km and its not much of an obstical). I saw them much more as being like this, with other ships around them they are uber. Without them , they are toast. there are two types of command ships - field command and fleet command field command are essentially the next step up in damage dealing - the have high resistances and a **** load of damage bonuses. however, their main weakness is that they are slow and sluggish compared to a HAC. field command ships can also use one gang warfare link at a time. fleet command ships are designed for tank and boost. They have higher resists than field command ships and can run 3 gang modules at a time. instead of extra damage bonuses, they get bonuses to the effectivness of the gang assist modules.
Dash Ripcock	Posted - 2006.01.17 05:23:00 - [37] What are their capacitors like however? Running multiple Neutrons and Ions on a slow battery is going to run you flat very quickly. Movie Trailer
Haniblecter Teg	Posted - 2006.01.17 05:46:00 - [38] Command ships have a massive radius. HAC's really in part on their small radius and speed. Command ships may have more armor, but they'll take alot more hits than the HAC would, and would prolly drop quicker against a BS. ---------------------------------------- Friends Forever
Jin Entres	Posted - 2006.01.17 07:33:00 - [39] Originally by: Dash Ripcock What are their capacitors like however? Running multiple Neutrons and Ions on a slow battery is going to run you flat very quickly. Base capacitor on an astarte is 2250 per 500 sec. With a MWD, Energy Systems Operation V and Energy Management IV, that comes to 2137,50 per 375 sec, peak recharge rate (at 2.4 factor) being 13,7 cap / sec.
RogerWilco	Posted - 2006.01.17 10:17:00 - [40] as it is now, BC eats HACS if u just put your mind to it, the BC t2 aka Command ships will wtfpwn HACS without the shadow of a doubt. cant wait to get into one...
Temerlyn	Posted - 2006.01.17 10:45:00 - [41] the trend i am seeing is ccp are trying in some way to make minmater shield tankers. The claymore as an example has a 7.5% shield boosting bonus per level of Battlecruiser, consdiering you need battlecruiser 5 to fly command ships thats a 37.5% bonus for free. if i put 4 of the old school low slot cap rechargers i get an overall shield boost of -2.5% and 80% cap recharge. Minmater get a natural em resistance so its at 75% and thermal is 50%, 6 mid slots as well. in short a **** hot shield tank.
Admiral Goberius	Posted - 2006.01.17 11:00:00 - [42] nos, ecm's... tech I pride ftw :p
Gariuys	Posted - 2006.01.17 11:00:00 - [43] Originally by: Temerlyn the trend i am seeing is ccp are trying in some way to make minmater shield tankers. Lol, no kidding, but ehm they've been half if not more shield tank based for as long as the game is around. ( not counting the times that armor tanking didn't even exist ) ~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~ A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool
Justice Bringer	Posted - 2006.01.17 17:37:00 - [44] Originally by: Jin Entres Edited by: Jin Entres on 16/01/2006 09:51:16 Here's what I'm planning for my Astarte: 4 Heavy Neutron Blaster II 3 Heavy Ion Blaster II 1 10MN MWD II 1 Dark Blood Warp Scrambler 1 True Sansha Stasis Webifier 1 Medium Electrochemica Cap Injector 3 Magnetic Field Stabilizer II 1 Medium Armor Repairer II 1 Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II 1 Armor Explosive Hardener II 5 Medium Drones 532.75 / 550 tf CPU 1799.56 / 1812.50 MW PG It's a mini-blasterthron, really, with less hp than one but all round enhanced everything else. I would go as far as to guess that it would rip any non-capital ship apart given that the fight starts close enough. edit: and to "any non-capital ship" I'll make the exclusion of ships specificly fitted to kill one, ie. mostly nos setups like the suckadomi for example. My choice of fit on the Astarte is as follows: High: 7 x Neutron II/7 x 250 II Med: MWD II, Cap Injector II, Fleeting Web, Target Painter II/Tracking Computer II Low 1: Med Repper II, 800 Tungsten plate, RCU II, 1 x NanoII, 2 x Mag Stab II Low 2: Med repper II, Small Repper II, Explosive II, Nano II, 2 x Mag Stab II Low 3: Med Repper II, Explosive II, 2 x Nano, 2 x Mag Stab II Low 4: Choose your own variation, 6 slots is more than enough on this beast to keep it alive and dish outh the damage. Justice With the RCU II you should get 2175 max pg and with Advanced weapons upgrades the guns should take up 1493.277 pg (7 x 236) x (0.98 x 0.98 x 0.98 x 0.98 x 0.98) = 1652 x 0.9039 = 1493.277 pg This leaves plenty for a Cap Injector, MWD and Repper and you should have about 7 pg to spare for the other mods that use 1/2 pg each. Swap out the MWD for an AB II and you've got 100 more pg there. Sweet Justice
Naskaya	Posted - 2006.01.17 19:04:00 - [45] Edited by: Naskaya on 17/01/2006 19:07:36 Edited by: Naskaya on 17/01/2006 19:06:59 Caldari CS will be very dangerous, as you get the 25% bonus in all shield resistance due to Ferox base and BC skill V... So Vulture and Nighthawk could easily get up to 90% (or more ) in all shield resistance with some hardener in EW. Impressive in fact. I like the way the vulture is designed because as a command ship, it can stay far from battle and hit from a LONG range, thus maintaining a global vision of the battlefield and helping teammates...
Kyle Caldrel	Posted - 2006.01.17 19:28:00 - [46] Originally by: LWMaverick Edited by: LWMaverick on 16/01/2006 08:48:38 Originally by: Malthros Zenobia I'm going with the HACs winning. HACs are built with high damage and strong tanking in mind. T2 BCs are not. Strong Offense and Defense is not their main job, and if they simply dominate HACs, then CCP has failed in their setup of those ships, as they are not ment to replace HACs as an offensive and defensive ship. You sir, are clueless... Completly... Utterly totally and extremly clueless... Try look at the Absolution again... Takes it resistances, throw those extra 25% resist(with factor), its high power grid, its 25% RoF bonus, 25% damage bonus and 50% less cap usage...(at lvl 5 ofc) TELL ME.. is it not built for tanking and great damage? i'm pritty sure that ishtar can take most of this tech II BC .... ******************************************************* What ya gonna do, when I come for you!?
Crellion	Posted - 2006.01.17 22:46:00 - [47] Originally by: Kyle Caldrel Originally by: LWMaverick Edited by: LWMaverick on 16/01/2006 08:48:38 Originally by: Malthros Zenobia I'm going with the HACs winning. HACs are built with high damage and strong tanking in mind. T2 BCs are not. Strong Offense and Defense is not their main job, and if they simply dominate HACs, then CCP has failed in their setup of those ships, as they are not ment to replace HACs as an offensive and defensive ship. You sir, are clueless... Completly... Utterly totally and extremly clueless... Try look at the Absolution again... Takes it resistances, throw those extra 25% resist(with factor), its high power grid, its 25% RoF bonus, 25% damage bonus and 50% less cap usage...(at lvl 5 ofc) TELL ME.. is it not built for tanking and great damage? i'm pritty sure that ishtar can take most of this tech II BC .... Can it take a techI Cyclone or Prophecy fitting to kill HACs? (Honest question I cant fly Cyclone or Prophecy) I am pretty sure an Ion/Electron Brutix with dual rep and cap booster would kill Sacrilege, Zealot, Vagabond, Munnin, more likely than not. Cerb, Deimos, Ishtar and even eagle might prevail simply because of their natural kinetic and thermal resists.
keepiru	Posted - 2006.01.17 22:47:00 - [48] Originally by: Crellion Can it take a techI Cyclone or Prophecy fitting to kill HACs? (Honest question I cant fly Cyclone or Prophecy) Cyclone/Blasterix > most hacs atm. ------------- Please fix the EW stacking bug, it's a disgrace!
Sarmaul	Posted - 2006.01.17 22:49:00 - [49] most t1 cyclones fitted to kill hacs do it through 2 nos, one neut and a bloody huge shield tank. the ishtar will not only nos back, but if setup correctly will jam the hell out of you and unleash it's drones. even if not jamming, nosing it won't kill it's tank as it will be draining yours just as fast, and drones don't need cap to do damage.
Kyle Caldrel	Posted - 2006.01.18 05:52:00 - [50] Originally by: Crellion Originally by: Kyle Caldrel Originally by: LWMaverick Edited by: LWMaverick on 16/01/2006 08:48:38 Originally by: Malthros Zenobia I'm going with the HACs winning. HACs are built with high damage and strong tanking in mind. T2 BCs are not. Strong Offense and Defense is not their main job, and if they simply dominate HACs, then CCP has failed in their setup of those ships, as they are not ment to replace HACs as an offensive and defensive ship. You sir, are clueless... Completly... Utterly totally and extremly clueless... Try look at the Absolution again... Takes it resistances, throw those extra 25% resist(with factor), its high power grid, its 25% RoF bonus, 25% damage bonus and 50% less cap usage...(at lvl 5 ofc) TELL ME.. is it not built for tanking and great damage? i'm pritty sure that ishtar can take most of this tech II BC .... Can it take a techI Cyclone or Prophecy fitting to kill HACs? (Honest question I cant fly Cyclone or Prophecy) I am pretty sure an Ion/Electron Brutix with dual rep and cap booster would kill Sacrilege, Zealot, Vagabond, Munnin, more likely than not. Cerb, Deimos, Ishtar and even eagle might prevail simply because of their natural kinetic and thermal resists. ehm, they would need to get in range 1st, and I tend to fit MWD on hacs, plus 2x multi jammers on ishtar...I'll just orbit you at 26km and let drones do the job ******************************************************* What ya gonna do, when I come for you!?
Jin Entres	Posted - 2006.01.18 08:19:00 - [51] Speaking of drones - Eos has a dronebay of 250 m3 (CS IV). With that, it's higher natural resistances and the ability to fit 4 neutrons and 3 command mods with a huge tank (or fit similar to the Astarte with 7 guns and compensate for the missing damage bonus with the drones), it turns out to be quite a nasty ship, too, I reckon
Justice Bringer	Posted - 2006.01.18 10:40:00 - [52] Originally by: Jin Entres Speaking of drones - Eos has a dronebay of 250 m3 (CS IV). With that, it's higher natural resistances and the ability to fit 4 neutrons and 3 command mods with a huge tank (or fit similar to the Astarte with 7 guns and compensate for the missing damage bonus with the drones), it turns out to be quite a nasty ship, too, I reckon Well as it is the Fleet Command ship it might be a good idea to be using the extra drone bay to carry lots of repair drones to heal your squad members from distance. 'From great distance, comes great repairability' Hehehe Justice
Serj Darek	Posted - 2006.01.18 11:01:00 - [53] Originally by: FoRGyL T1 BC takes HACS so guess what a T2 does? -out- I have NEVER been killed by a BC when im in my HAC. Must be a crappy HAC pilot if he gets killed by BC. This is what happened to Bunny: Removed due to inappropriate content - Laqum
FoRGyL	Posted - 2006.01.18 11:13:00 - [54] Originally by: Serj Darek Originally by: FoRGyL T1 BC takes HACS so guess what a T2 does? -out- I have NEVER been killed by a BC when im in my HAC. Must be a crappy HAC pilot if he gets killed by BC. WEll not a 100% as always when it comes to ships but I haven't lost to a Hac yet so here we are ;)(disregard testing). And I will add I haven't encounterd all of em yet, so I will be pwent soon don't worry But we can test if u ever can trust my word on a clean fight, but I don't like EW ;) Mail me ingame for a 1 vs 1 if intrested. -out- ********************************************************* Pay or don't!
TerrorWOLF	Posted - 2006.01.18 12:13:00 - [55] For info Absolutions RoF bonus is buged . Wonders what other T2 BCs are buged. May Your Death Be Slow And Painful
LWMaverick	Posted - 2006.01.18 12:15:00 - [56] Originally by: TerrorWOLF For info Absolutions RoF bonus is buged . Wonders what other T2 BCs are buged. w00t?.. How is it bugged?.. care to explain ?.. im geting mine the 27th january, so i would like to know really. /Mav With great power, comes great responsibility.
TerrorWOLF	Posted - 2006.01.18 12:35:00 - [57] RoF on Prophecy 3.55 with 1x Heat Sink RoF on Absolution 3.73 with 1x Heat Sink and lvl1 Command Ship skill. Im geting lvl2 Command Ship in 30 min ill update with lvl2 then May Your Death Be Slow And Painful
Serj Darek	Posted - 2006.01.18 14:57:00 - [58] Originally by: FoRGyL Originally by: Serj Darek Originally by: FoRGyL T1 BC takes HACS so guess what a T2 does? -out- I have NEVER been killed by a BC when im in my HAC. Must be a crappy HAC pilot if he gets killed by BC. WEll not a 100% as always when it comes to ships but I haven't lost to a Hac yet so here we are ;)(disregard testing). And I will add I haven't encounterd all of em yet, so I will be pwent soon don't worry But we can test if u ever can trust my word on a clean fight, but I don't like EW ;) Mail me ingame for a 1 vs 1 if intrested. -out- Hehe, I might, if my wallet alows it This is what happened to Bunny: Removed due to inappropriate content - Laqum
Hllaxiu	Posted - 2006.01.18 15:36:00 - [59] Originally by: TerrorWOLF For info Absolutions RoF bonus is buged . Wonders what other T2 BCs are buged. The Astarte is slightly bugged too; it has the same falloff bonus of the Deimos - 10%, instead of 5% as per ship description. I'm assuming that the description is wrong - does ship in game have a 5% range bonus?
Auke Wester	Posted - 2006.01.19 17:50:00 - [60] I fly both an Eagle and a Vulture. They are basically the same resisancewise since I use a EM Hardener II and Invulnerability Field II on both. They are basically the same damagewise too since the Eagle has a 25% dmg bonus and the Vulture a 5th gunslot. Tanking however, the Eagle is allready amazing but the Vulture just absolutely rocks. I have in my Vulture med and lowslots: 1x Large Shield Booster II 1x Shield Boost Amplifier 1x EM Hardener II 1x Invulnerability Field II 2x Cap Recharger II 1x Magstab II 3x PDSII This tank will run forever and I had no problems yet tanking missions against whatever race. The big difference between these ships are speed. I'll fit a 50MN ABII instead of the Amp once they get those in the game but I saw no point yet. If fighting each other neither would win since they would both just sustain tank. The Vulture would just sustain even better :)

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