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The mining situation makes me wanna puke

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Tony Fats	Posted - 2006.01.16 17:42:00 - [1] A couple days ago I talked to a newbie miner and he was cool so I gave him some good advice. I told him where my old mining spot was, it's a .7 system with mostly pyroxeres with a few chunks of omber in it sometimes. This kid went down there and starts mining that omber in his Bantam. Now I get an e-mail from this guy "Theres no more Omber" "Well mine some Pyrox," I reply "What Pyrox," comes the answer. So I fly down there in a shuttle and quickly scout the belts. There's no omber. There's no pyrox. There's no scordite. There is only veld. Flying out what do I see? I see a scombucket driving a Large Barge. In a high sec system you got strip miners with millions of SP stripping the belts that newbies depend on for cash to get them off the ground. They should ban barges from .5+ those areas are for newbies, not for veteran carebears to sit making billions in complete safety while leaving newbies nothing but veld. No wonder so many people are ore thieves. After witnessing this atrocity firsthand, it makes me want to do the same thing.
Munjo Jerry	Posted - 2006.01.16 17:44:00 - [2] war dec them and save the day
Katamarino	Posted - 2006.01.16 17:46:00 - [3] Seconded! ANd have fun as you do
Winterblink	Posted - 2006.01.16 17:47:00 - [4] Someone explain to me how jumping from belt to belt looking for JUST Omber is more cost and time efficient than parking and mining a belt clean of everything? winterblink warp drive active.http://winterblink.com/wda nature vraie.http://winterblink.com/env
Duraeli	Posted - 2006.01.16 17:48:00 - [5] While I do agree that the current situation is a wreck, there's an entire sticky post dedicated to this topic. Originally by: Tony Fats They should ban barges from .5+ those areas are for newbies, not for veteran carebears to sit making billions in complete safety while leaving newbies nothing but veld. I've read quite a few of the suggestions here, but this is one of the stupider ones...I don't disagree that the areas are for the new guys (especially 0.9+) but lets not push the fragile barges into insecure space. If carebears want to mine in a barge in 0.5+ that's their prerogative. Kinda a crap solution to macromining IMO. ---------------------------------------------- Persona non grata
Teles666	Posted - 2006.01.16 17:50:00 - [6] God damn, it's a multi player game - compete for the resources. It does peeve me a little when 0.5's 2 jumps from any stations are stripped of omber - but if they weren't I'd have stripped them myself :) ps. Veteran making billions? No thanks, 6 month old char with a lot of wasted learning time who can make 20m a night if working hard.
Nee'kita Frist	Posted - 2006.01.16 17:51:00 - [7] I mine in .6 + .5 all the time in my Retreiver. With 3 drones I can easily take the damage from the rat spawns in those belts. Force barges to .7 and below. Any lower and thats just unreasonable.
Tony Fats	Posted - 2006.01.16 17:59:00 - [8] You're right, banning barges from .5+ is a carebear solution. People should fight for resources. Why then do carebear barge miners come in here whining about ore theft? Hey it's a viscious cycle. You steal from the newbies. The ore thieves steal from you. If anything, ore thieves are like environmentalists, like an "omber preservation society." And I used to get angry when "mercenary" corps would wardec industrial carebear corps for money, but now I see the light. These "industrial" carebear corps sit in .5 with a half dozen BS avoiding all risk, then have the nerve to call those who wardec them griefers. If you have a BS or a Large Barge you shouldn't be in highsec in the firstplace. You should be in lowsec mining with protection. Anyway, all I'm sayin is, NOW I understand why some people are pirates. I understand now why some people are ore thieves. I understand now why some corps wardec industrial corps. But what then do we do about large barges in newbie corps? How do we get at them? They definitely deserve to lose their ship for mining in highsec in a newbie corp.
Siigari Kitawa	Posted - 2006.01.16 18:01:00 - [9] Hmm.. this is interesting. While I can see barges getting the ban hammer in .5+ I think that for now the situation is okay... I think they should not be restricted from 1.0 space, rather, a barge can be targeted if they mine the same rock you do. _________ roflfest 2006 - be there
Coveney	Posted - 2006.01.16 18:04:00 - [10] I mine with my covetor in 0.7 to 0.5 systems and use drones to defend myself, you see me with my covetor and drones in 0.4 systems or lower, no Covetor have no defences unless with drones, which we can use less of the heavy drones, look at the shield, armor and hull of the ship, i would glady use the new hulk version but don`t see any available in the region i am. Like one said before, its a competitions. If i have to move to another system to mine, i will do it, but i stay in safe space because the first version of Ore Barges are not make to mine in low sec unless having a good escort. <--- He made me do it.
Fashion Bug	Posted - 2006.01.16 18:15:00 - [11] Originally by: Winterblink Someone explain to me how jumping from belt to belt looking for JUST Omber is more cost and time efficient than parking and mining a belt clean of everything? In the past this was a correct statement. You could sit and a belt and mine veld and sell the trit for 3.0 and make good isk. Now that is not so. With current market values if you mine 100km of veld you will make about 3mill isk If you mine 100km3 of scord you will make about 4mil in isk If you mine 100km3 of omber you will make about 7mil in isk if you mine 100km3 of pryo you will make about 4mil in isk if you mine 100km3 of Kern you will make about 10mil in isk if you mine 100km3 of jaspet you will make 12mil in isk I base these numbers off Domain market values last week. And this is off base ores not named. With these numbers it is fact to mine Kern or Jaspet or Omber out and move to the next belt and leave the Veld and scord and pryo to rot. Assuming you are after the isk and not the mins.
Winterblink	Posted - 2006.01.16 18:19:00 - [12] Originally by: Fashion Bug In the past this was a correct statement. You could sit and a belt and mine veld and sell the trit for 3.0 and make good isk. Now that is not so. With current market values if you mine 100km of veld you will make about 3mill isk If you mine 100km3 of scord you will make about 4mil in isk If you mine 100km3 of omber you will make about 7mil in isk if you mine 100km3 of pryo you will make about 4mil in isk if you mine 100km3 of Kern you will make about 10mil in isk if you mine 100km3 of jaspet you will make 12mil in isk I base these numbers off Domain market values last week. And this is off base ores not named. With these numbers it is fact to mine Kern or Jaspet or Omber out and move to the next belt and leave the Veld and scord and pryo to rot. Assuming you are after the isk and not the mins. Right, but a fair portion of the point I tried to make was with regards to the time aspect. If I had to jump around from belt to belt, mining just one ore (and a rare-ish one at that), I'd spend more time travelling around and hauling, especially if I was dealing with multiple star systems, than actually making money. Whereas if I sit in one spot and clean out the belt, I'm constantly bringing in product to refine. winterblink warp drive active.http://winterblink.com/wda nature vraie.http://winterblink.com/env
Fashion Bug	Posted - 2006.01.16 18:31:00 - [13] Originally by: Winterblink Originally by: Fashion Bug In the past this was a correct statement. You could sit and a belt and mine veld and sell the trit for 3.0 and make good isk. Now that is not so. With current market values if you mine 100km of veld you will make about 3mill isk If you mine 100km3 of scord you will make about 4mil in isk If you mine 100km3 of omber you will make about 7mil in isk if you mine 100km3 of pryo you will make about 4mil in isk if you mine 100km3 of Kern you will make about 10mil in isk if you mine 100km3 of jaspet you will make 12mil in isk I base these numbers off Domain market values last week. And this is off base ores not named. With these numbers it is fact to mine Kern or Jaspet or Omber out and move to the next belt and leave the Veld and scord and pryo to rot. Assuming you are after the isk and not the mins. Right, but a fair portion of the point I tried to make was with regards to the time aspect. If I had to jump around from belt to belt, mining just one ore (and a rare-ish one at that), I'd spend more time travelling around and hauling, especially if I was dealing with multiple star systems, than actually making money. Whereas if I sit in one spot and clean out the belt, I'm constantly bringing in product to refine. Course it will depend entire on the system and the ore left around. I personally strip a 0.4 system down of its jaspet and kern. It is not a system overly mine so there is penty of ore for my covertor to mine. In fact I encouge the newbies that do come to mine with me and I haul (alt hauls), protect and refine for them at no charge. (note I protect them in my large barge with my drones in a 0.4 system). So given that, my statements are not in proper reply to 1.0, 0.9, or even other secure sectors. Overly mined is the problem, not the striping of ore. There too many indians after the corn. And there are two things that can be done (well 3 if macroers are dealt with). 1) MORE ORE TO MINE, more belts, larger rocks, faster spawn, what ever to provide more ore. 2) Move to 0.0 to mine. Encourge those in barges to move to 0.0 into allinces. There are lots of allinces that will love to have a large barge within its mist. You empire miners have no idea how much you can make mining zyd, mega, or even merc. And if you get with a corp that as a POS up and running in a system with those ores, you have it GOOD. Just watch local and retreat to the POS if someone comes wandering, believe me a POS will protect you from a wander. It an allince fleet that you will have to worry about.
Benglada	Posted - 2006.01.16 18:37:00 - [14] Originally by: Teles666 ps. Veteran making billions? No thanks, 6 month old char with a lot of wasted learning time who can make 20m a night if working hard. 20m a night? thats 140m a week, which is 560m a month if working hard. im currently a year and a half old and have never made that much money (ofc i have a mental defficiancy so i cant mine :) ) --------------------------- Ftw!?
Siigari Kitawa	Posted - 2006.01.16 18:38:00 - [15] 100km3.. Those're some fast moving rocks. _________ roflfest 2006 - be there
Noriath	Posted - 2006.01.16 18:46:00 - [16] Edited by: Noriath on 16/01/2006 18:46:53 Originally by: Winterblink Someone explain to me how jumping from belt to belt looking for JUST Omber is more cost and time efficient than parking and mining a belt clean of everything? This is the main problem with mining, people pick out the ores that sell for more money and ignore the ones that are common. Then everyone complains that large amounts of tritanium are hard to get - but the simple fact is, wether you mine veldespar or omber in empire, it's going to be boring and time consuming, so why does one pay ten times more? The entire cash mining situation is also what makes makromining truely possible, because I just don't believe that all the tritanium in the universe comes from newbies getting scordite with a basic miner.
Filan	Posted - 2006.01.16 18:53:00 - [17] some of those mega sized velds need a strip miner pointed at them sometime cause man they are allways in the way. i think im gunna do that when i get a barge. clean up the super velds in the belt i mine my pyro in.
Sam Albertek	Posted - 2006.01.16 19:04:00 - [18] Originally by: Filan some of those mega sized velds need a strip miner pointed at them sometime cause man they are allways in the way. i think im gunna do that when i get a barge. clean up the super velds in the belt i mine my pyro in. I agree the oversized velds make it hard to target the really small pyrox asteriods that i mine beacuse half of them have a super velds behind them and i have a tiny area where i can click and select the pyrox or plag instead of the velds
Ademaro Imre	Posted - 2006.01.16 19:23:00 - [19] Use the overview or a survey scanner. Doesn't matter if you can see the rock or not.
Fashion Bug	Posted - 2006.01.16 19:28:00 - [20] Originally by: Siigari Kitawa 100km3.. Those're some fast moving rocks. 100km3 is about an hour (alittle more) for me, that is why I used those numbers
Sam Albertek	Posted - 2006.01.16 19:33:00 - [21] Originally by: Siigari Kitawa 100km3.. Those're some fast moving rocks. 100km3 is a unit of volume measurment, not speed.
Mudkest	Posted - 2006.01.16 19:35:00 - [22] you do realize that battleships and mining cruisers mine at the same pace as medium barges or even more right? apocalypse can mine around 800M3 per minute easy, sctytche around 500M3, retreiver around 600... if you ban barges people will just fly in other ships. then ban battleships and cruisers from those systems as well? there are plenty of systems to be mining. but OMG the new players have to jump 5 systems instead of 2, NERF BARGES! -Would you attack a lion with a brooch-pin? Why would a lion have a brooch-pin?
Hllaxiu	Posted - 2006.01.16 19:39:00 - [23] Edited by: Hllaxiu on 16/01/2006 19:39:26 Originally by: Fashion Bug Originally by: Siigari Kitawa 100km3.. Those're some fast moving rocks. 100km3 is about an hour (alittle more) for me, that is why I used those numbers I don't see how you could possibly be getting 1x10^11m^3 of ore/hour. Perhaps you meant 100,000m^3/hour?
Neon Genesis	Posted - 2006.01.16 19:40:00 - [24] Well tbh, the best ores are in low sec, and there is a load of lowsec that gets extremely low traffic, so i don't really see the problem? Apply you're intelligence, and you will reap greater rewards. There, i just contributed nothing to your thread
Fashion Bug	Posted - 2006.01.16 19:44:00 - [25] Originally by: Hllaxiu Edited by: Hllaxiu on 16/01/2006 19:39:26 Originally by: Fashion Bug Originally by: Siigari Kitawa 100km3.. Those're some fast moving rocks. 100km3 is about an hour (alittle more) for me, that is why I used those numbers I don't see how you could possibly be getting 1x10^11m^3 of ore/hour. Perhaps you meant 100,000m^3/hour? 100km3 was a measure of volume that I used to detmine the best ore to mine at where I was. It was not a meuasure of time. BUT I did calc how long it will take me to mine that amount and it is about 75mins with just my MSM2s, now add my mining drones and my alt mining as well (with his one M2 mounted on his hualer) and I est little more then an hour to mine 100km3.
Hllaxiu	Posted - 2006.01.16 19:52:00 - [26] Edited by: Hllaxiu on 16/01/2006 19:52:18 Originally by: Fashion Bug 100km3 was a measure of volume that I used to detmine the best ore to mine at where I was. It was not a meuasure of time. 100km^3 is 1001000m1000m*1000m or 1x10^11m^3 or 100,000,000,000m^3. Is this what you meant? Or did you mean 100,000m^3? If the latter, please stop saying 100km^3 because it has a completely different meaning from 100,000m^3.
HippoKing	Posted - 2006.01.16 19:56:00 - [27] Originally by: Fashion Bug Originally by: Hllaxiu Edited by: Hllaxiu on 16/01/2006 19:39:26 Originally by: Fashion Bug Originally by: Siigari Kitawa 100km3.. Those're some fast moving rocks. 100km3 is about an hour (alittle more) for me, that is why I used those numbers I don't see how you could possibly be getting 1x10^11m^3 of ore/hour. Perhaps you meant 100,000m^3/hour? 100km3 was a measure of volume that I used to detmine the best ore to mine at where I was. It was not a meuasure of time. BUT I did calc how long it will take me to mine that amount and it is about 75mins with just my MSM2s, now add my mining drones and my alt mining as well (with his one M2 mounted on his hualer) and I est little more then an hour to mine 100km3. the point is he is making is that a km3 is NOT 1000m3, it is 1billion m3. if you want to use k to mean thousand, space it, so you get 100k m3, for clarity
Fashion Bug	Posted - 2006.01.16 19:57:00 - [28] Originally by: Hllaxiu Edited by: Hllaxiu on 16/01/2006 19:52:18 Originally by: Fashion Bug 100km3 was a measure of volume that I used to detmine the best ore to mine at where I was. It was not a meuasure of time. 100km^3 is 1001000m1000m1000m or 1x10^11m^3 or 100,000,000,000m^3. Is this what you meant? Or did you mean 100,000m^3? If the latter, please stop saying 100km^3 because it has a completely different meaning from 100,000m^3. Dude, go back to math. 100k = 100 1000 = 100,000 m3 = meters cubed which is what your hold is measeured in.
Mudkest	Posted - 2006.01.16 20:39:00 - [29] 1km¦ is 1km1km1km, not 1000m¦ ... but seeing that's been pointed out a couple times allready I doubt it'll help this time ... -Would you attack a lion with a brooch-pin? Why would a lion have a brooch-pin?
Sarina Talglit	Posted - 2006.01.16 20:44:00 - [30] Well, quite simply 100 km3 is 1.000 m X 1000 m x 1000 m X100 = 100.000.000.000 m3 Say 100k m3 or 100km3... But the meaning is quite different.

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