So in the end, it's the gankers who aren't doing their job properly. If they stepped it up a notch so that ganking was a realistic threat to the average miner, then min/max would require security to counter them. I guess, as it stands atm, it's better to take the risk of running a mining op without security in terms of min/max.

Rather than bothering with guards, they can load shield maintenance drones in the Orca and Barges. Assign the maintenace drones to the Orca, and the Orca pilot can put them on whichever Barge is in danger.

I understand perfectly why they don't. If you think mining is boring, try guarding miners. I saw a miner get ganked one time by a newbro who slowboated past the "security" to the Retriever, bobbed around in space a bit while he got the nerve to do the needful, then he locked and killed the Retriever. The "security" woke up and try to stop the gank just as the retty sploded. I asked the guy via local why he didn't pre-lock and blow away the catalyst as soon as it went criminal. His answer: Youtube.

So in the end, it's the gankers who aren't doing their job properly. If they stepped it up a notch so that ganking was a realistic threat to the average miner, then min/max would require security to counter them. I guess, as it stands atm, it's better to take the risk of running a mining op without security in terms of min/max.

I was talking to a new player just the other day who -loves- mining, especially while AFK. He's only a couple months old, and only has one account, so the cost of a retriever is a big deal to him. He is aware of the possibility of getting ganked in high sec. However, he prefers to maximize his mining yield, loves to go AFK as much as possible, and doesn't bother to tank his ship at all, nor does he research ways to help increase his chance of surviving a gank. I'd call him foolish, but then again, he's been mining alone and carefree for weeks on end and no one has found him yet. Maybe he's made enough extra ISK by min/maxing to replace his retriever once/if he does get ganked. Maybe the fact that he can go AFK and do other stuff while mining increases the enjoyment he gets per hour, and he wouldn't be happy if he was forced to be at attention at all times watching mining lasers burn holes in rocks. *shrug*

what ship would this be? and how fast could i blow up a destroyer?

Smartbombs will destroy a large group of catalysts instantly

Smartbombs will also hit any cloaky neutral positive-sec-status alt that the gankers are using as a warp-in, thereby bringing CONCORD down on your smartbombing BS.

Move to another systems

People use cloaky positive sec status alts for warpins?

Odd.

I use a Procurer alt that doesn't have cloaking trained, and has a slightly negative sec status.

You will rarely see a ganker and in my whole experiment i got ganked once.

I can't be everywhere.

Actually, I'm taking a break from ganking Miners to learn how to gank Explorers. Something different to do; even gankers get bored.

I would have thought an instacane would work pretty well to answer OP's question.
It is also pontless as many people have stated.
I made a mining alt and mined a couple of bill over time.
In out of the way systems the main risk is being yellow boxed by BC's owned by the local miner whose ore you are "stealing".
Being yellow boxed doesn't seem to affect yield in anyway.
If you move to busier systems with lower sec status then u will start to see various new things.
ventures behaving oddly and sometimes visibly locking you (no idea if they hadn't heard of passive targeters or were failing to use them properly) that are acting as scouts. u will also see this from other barges and various other ship types.
You will also see the hoover mining fleets that swarm like locusts and destroy every roid in sight.
You will rarely see a ganker and in my whole experiment i got ganked once.

From this i learn that mining is very dull.
Mining doesn't make enough isk unless you multibox.
fitting for max yield will more than cover your losses from ganking.
having a guard is stupid as they would be better off making isk and sending u a fraction of those rewards earned to buy u a new ship if your current one explodes.

Most miners however are strangers to logic, humour and polite language and it isn't the ship exploding that makes gankers gank. It i the sanity of the miner exploding all over local and in evemails.
The only enjoyment i got from mining was reading local after a gank. This sometimes required google translate and those ones were especially amusing.
I read http://www.minerbumping.com/ every day as it is easily the best blog in eve.

I no longer mine.

An industrial player is a little different than a miner. Industrial players measure everything in cost effectiveness.

Hmm... that could be very entertaining! And those ships are EXPENSIVE! Youll need to update a bit more once you get a few down...

I was going to suggest the same thing.

The smartbombs will also take out any nasty rats that get in the way of your mining too.

Hmm... that could be very entertaining! And those ships are EXPENSIVE! Youll need to update a bit more once you get a few down...

I recommend buying a permit. Contact your local gankers. Alternatively you can send me 10mil isk per pilot for a New Order mining permit. They are good for one year and valid throughout hisec. See http://www.minerbumping.com/p/the-code.html for more details.

Falsely represent ... bla bla bla

Can't falsely represent an informal, all inclusive organisation, especially one that doesn't appear to exist for ToS enforcement purposes.

We got -10 players ganking in x system atm.
they fly cheap destroyers. I was wondering would it make sence to have a counter ship stashed in a orca?
what ship would this be? and how fast could i blow up a destroyer?

The best to avoid getting ganked in eve is by not playing the game, plenty of players have been going with that tactic and it has done pre-order's for 2 games pretty good.

Citation needed.

TBH a lot of them will come back. Part of the attraction of Eve, even for so called "carebears" like myself, is the inherent risk presented by other players. Everybody takes a break sometime, otherwise it can turn into skill training online, especially for people that choose to play solo. I'm just about to take one myself, playing the crap out of games that present me with instant gratification, while planning out a new direction to take when I come back in a few months.

I would disagree, and I know quite a few of them.

The real indy players are the guys who not only sell ganking catalysts, but retrievers too . The true indy player is just about the only guy who really wins at EVE. Other people can fight each other from across the sector, and no matter who survives the fight, he wins.

A miner is, by and large, someone pretending to play EVE, or at best, someone who prioritizes the single most boring activity in the game.

I would have thought an instacane would work pretty well to answer OP's question.
It is also pontless as many people have stated.
I made a mining alt and mined a couple of bill over time.
In out of the way systems the main risk is being yellow boxed by BC's owned by the local miner whose ore you are "stealing".
Being yellow boxed doesn't seem to affect yield in anyway.
If you move to busier systems with lower sec status then u will start to see various new things.
ventures behaving oddly and sometimes visibly locking you (no idea if they hadn't heard of passive targeters or were failing to use them properly) that are acting as scouts. u will also see this from other barges and various other ship types.
You will also see the hoover mining fleets that swarm like locusts and destroy every roid in sight.
You will rarely see a ganker and in my whole experiment i got ganked once.

From this i learn that mining is very dull.
Mining doesn't make enough isk unless you multibox.
fitting for max yield will more than cover your losses from ganking.
having a guard is stupid as they would be better off making isk and sending u a fraction of those rewards earned to buy u a new ship if your current one explodes.

Most miners however are strangers to logic, humour and polite language and it isn't the ship exploding that makes gankers gank. It i the sanity of the miner exploding all over local and in evemails.
The only enjoyment i got from mining was reading local after a gank. This sometimes required google translate and those ones were especially amusing.
I read http://www.minerbumping.com/ every day as it is easily the best blog in eve.

I no longer mine.