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[Winter] Hi-sec POCOs?

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Uppsy Daisy Perkone Caldari State 536	Posted - 2013.09.24 21:57:00 - [1] - Quote Speculation on hi-sec POCOs seems to be sending prices northwards... P4s will follow shorty. If only I had more ISK to pour in.. Looks like the Winter Expansion speculation has begun.
Akrasjel Lanate Naquatech Conglomerate 1206	Posted - 2013.09.25 07:09:00 - [2] - Quote Yea
Setsune Rin Bite Me inc Bitten. 83	Posted - 2013.09.25 11:23:00 - [3] - Quote as always the news breaks when i'm at work...yippie ah well...i'll get some extra POS fuel before it starts getting to extreme
Sir SmashAlot The League of Extraordinary Opportunists Intergalactic Conservation Movement 95	Posted - 2013.09.26 22:06:00 - [4] - Quote Giving High sec something to fight over is absolutely wonderful. As for P4 prices, I see a speculative jump then a decline as i believe the mean tax rate will be lower than it currently is. Personally I will be selling into any jump in PI prices.
Grozen Titan Core 13	Posted - 2013.09.26 22:10:00 - [5] - Quote Sir SmashAlot wrote: Giving High sec something to fight over is absolutely wonderful. As for P4 prices, I see a speculative jump then a decline as i believe the mean tax rate will be lower than it currently is. Personally I will be selling into any jump in PI prices. I second that.Because the owners will want as many people using THEIR poco people will offer lower taxes so that everyone uses their poco.Also i don't know how many systems eve has but capturing all cos in all systems is absurd job its gonna take months before every co is player owned. knowledge is power.
Cage Man 265	Posted - 2013.09.27 00:21:00 - [6] - Quote Grozen wrote: Sir SmashAlot wrote: Giving High sec something to fight over is absolutely wonderful. As for P4 prices, I see a speculative jump then a decline as i believe the mean tax rate will be lower than it currently is. Personally I will be selling into any jump in PI prices. I second that.Because the owners will want as many people using THEIR poco people will offer lower taxes so that everyone uses their poco.Also i don't know how many systems eve has but capturing all cos in all systems is absurd job its gonna take months before every co is player owned.But for a large alliance who knows maybe not so hard Ever tried to pop a customs office without a dread? No small corp is going to even try. Maybe CCP will make the HS already in place CO's easier to pop. The thick plottens... CCP, When can my crane get its black paint job back??
Rengerel en Distel 1950	Posted - 2013.09.27 00:31:00 - [7] - Quote Cage Man wrote: Grozen wrote: Sir SmashAlot wrote: Giving High sec something to fight over is absolutely wonderful. As for P4 prices, I see a speculative jump then a decline as i believe the mean tax rate will be lower than it currently is. Personally I will be selling into any jump in PI prices. I second that.Because the owners will want as many people using THEIR poco people will offer lower taxes so that everyone uses their poco.Also i don't know how many systems eve has but capturing all cos in all systems is absurd job its gonna take months before every co is player owned.But for a large alliance who knows maybe not so hard Ever tried to pop a customs office without a dread? No small corp is going to even try. Maybe CCP will make the HS already in place CO's easier to pop. Takes as long as a small POS, depending on how small the corp, it's a few hours at most. With the increase in shiptoasting, the Report timer needs to be shortened.
Sir SmashAlot The League of Extraordinary Opportunists Intergalactic Conservation Movement 101	Posted - 2013.09.27 14:26:00 - [8] - Quote Rengerel en Distel wrote: Cage Man wrote: Grozen wrote: Sir SmashAlot wrote: Giving High sec something to fight over is absolutely wonderful. As for P4 prices, I see a speculative jump then a decline as i believe the mean tax rate will be lower than it currently is. Personally I will be selling into any jump in PI prices. I second that.Because the owners will want as many people using THEIR poco people will offer lower taxes so that everyone uses their poco.Also i don't know how many systems eve has but capturing all cos in all systems is absurd job its gonna take months before every co is player owned.But for a large alliance who knows maybe not so hard Ever tried to pop a customs office without a dread? No small corp is going to even try. Maybe CCP will make the HS already in place CO's easier to pop. Takes as long as a small POS, depending on how small the corp, it's a few hours at most. I can only imagine the number of P4 factory setups that are sitting on temperate or barren planets just outside of trade hubs. The potential income could be significant. I would not be surprised that there will be sizeable oracle fleets roaming around high sec on patch day spamming POCOs. The potential income (remains to be seen) could be a catalyst for more organized groups to form and live in high sec.
Rengerel en Distel 1951	Posted - 2013.09.27 16:15:00 - [9] - Quote Sir SmashAlot wrote: I can only imagine the number of P4 factory setups that are sitting on temperate or barren planets just outside of trade hubs. The potential income could be significant. I would not be surprised that there will be sizeable oracle fleets roaming around high sec on patch day spamming POCOs. The potential income (remains to be seen) could be a catalyst for more organized groups to form and live in high sec. The advantages of an organized group setting up a PILRD type alliance where they allow 0% tax is actually greater than renting sov space, as each planet can hold unlimited numbers, unlike sov space. Would you pay 1B/month to have 4 factory planets one jump from Jita at 0% tax? I think a lot of people would. With the increase in shiptoasting, the Report timer needs to be shortened.
pmchem GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 617	Posted - 2013.09.27 16:32:00 - [10] - Quote I am confident P4s will rise due to interrupted factory production, gantry construction, discouraged producers, tax rates, and general chaos. CCP hasn't actually SAID yet if there will be additional deployment (think: POS charter) or tax cost in highsec COs, and presumably any such costs will be passed on to the consumer. To that end, the highest impacted P4s should be Broadcast Nodes, Self-Harmonizing Power Cores, and Wetware Mainframes. To make them you need 3 different P3s, and they don't include stockpiled GS or PV. Those three P4s are also used in gantry eggs. You can currently get those three P4s on buys in jita at prices under their 6- or 12- month peaks. PI prices are at their yearly low cycle, end-of-summer. Gonna go up. @pmchem on twitter \|\| GARPA \|\| Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal
Robert Morningstar Morningstar Excavations LTD Business Alliance of Manufacturers and Miners 20	Posted - 2013.09.27 21:00:00 - [11] - Quote Cage Man wrote: [quote=Grozen][quote=Sir SmashAlot]Giving High sec something to fight over is absolutely wonderful. Ever tried to pop a customs office without a dread? No small corp is going to even try. Maybe CCP will make the HS already in place CO's easier to pop. Actually yes I have and it is possible if time consuming in a single battleship.
Vaerah Vahrokha Vahrokh Consulting 4351	Posted - 2013.09.27 23:57:00 - [12] - Quote pmchem wrote: I am confident P4s will rise due to interrupted factory production, gantry construction, discouraged producers, tax rates, and general chaos. CCP hasn't actually SAID yet if there will be additional deployment (think: POS charter) or tax cost in highsec COs, and presumably any such costs will be passed on to the consumer. To that end, the highest impacted P4s should be Broadcast Nodes, Self-Harmonizing Power Cores, and Wetware Mainframes. To make them you need 3 different P3s, and they don't include stockpiled GS or PV. Those three P4s are also used in gantry eggs. You can currently get those three P4s on buys in jita at prices under their 6- or 12- month peaks. PI prices are at their yearly low cycle, end-of-summer. Gonna go up. So glad I found some random freighters full of PI materials and topes. Gotta love the guys who default loans and after some months their abandoned collateral doubles+ in value Auditing \| Collateral holding and insurance \| Consulting \| PLEX for Good Charity Twitter channel
cuoredipietra famedoro The Fated E.Y 7	Posted - 2013.09.29 14:26:00 - [13] - Quote PI Item's price will go up, for several reasons: > more demand because more and more COs get nuked and replaced by POCOs, and because new structures are being added by CCP and some of those are likely to be quite popular (personal hangar anyone)? > less supply due to disruption over PI production hubs > speculation around rubicon's release date and speculation each and every time big alliances announce a blockade on PI planets While I don't see prices skyrocketing out of control in the long term, I can imagine a spike around the time of rubicon's release and the prices falling slowly for at least a couple of months afterwards and I guess prices will remain 20-30% higher than they are now in the long run. I foresee this scenario because, while it is true that there are too many COs in higsec and not all of them are worth controlling, organized group of players just need to acquire and keep control on a bunch of POCOs to effectively influence the price. Much part of PI production boils down into producing P4 items and then building Player Owned infrastructures from those. This is a very time-consuming process and is best done in solar systems with 4-6 desert or temperate planets and close to market hubs. Solar systems like Sobaseki, for example, and there are not that many like that. The main reason while this partial blockade will work is the necessity to import PI-materials of lower tier into the planet and then exporting P4 items to stations for either production or shipment to a market hub. This is a time consuming task if carried out on several planets in different solar systems, and especially because both raw materials and finished goods have high volumes and require freighters to be carried back and forth from factory solar systems to/from the market hub. For this reason the control of a limited numbers of POCOs in few key solar system is likely to happen and there is also all likelyhood of cartels arising. The average player will continue producing PIs farther from trade hubs, maybe at a lower tax rate at the cost of decreased efficiency. TLDR; The post-patch PI will be less efficient for the average joe, cartels around trade hub may arise, the demand will increase, speculation around patch time will exist and further speculation spikes are to be expected for any cartel-war around trade hubs. Expect long term PI prices to be steadily 30% over the actual ones. Caeci caecos ducentes-á
Logical Chaos Mind Games. Suddenly Spaceships. 58	Posted - 2013.09.29 14:32:00 - [14] - Quote People always say it is impossible to control all planets. Thats correct, but basically in Highsec you just need to control the Factory-capable planets around the trade-hubs which will probably make it manageable!
cuoredipietra famedoro The Fated E.Y 7	Posted - 2013.09.29 14:41:00 - [15] - Quote Logical Chaos wrote: People always say it is impossible to control all planets. Thats correct, but basically in Highsec you just need to control the Factory-capable planets around the trade-hubs which will probably make it manageable! Exactly! This will drive prices up. Of course it will still be possible to produce PI stuff far from trade hubs, but at higher cost e/o increased operational complexity. And this also drives prices up. Caeci caecos ducentes-á
Lfod Shi Lfod's Ratting and Salvage 123	Posted - 2013.09.29 15:03:00 - [16] - Quote Oooh, it's speculation speculation time! GÖ¬ They'll always be bloodclaws to me GÖ½ ...end transmission...
cuoredipietra famedoro The Fated E.Y 7	Posted - 2013.09.29 15:09:00 - [17] - Quote Lfod Shi wrote: Oooh, it's speculation speculation time! that was yesterday :) for example yesterday i found sterile conduits' prices at 1.400.000 lowest sell when they had been around 930.000 the day before. I am not the one who bought all the stock, i am just one who produces those items and sells them, so i have some grasp on the usual prices. Yesterday I already made 1 billion extra profit just because of this. Someone is already beyond speculation, he/she/they are already moving the market. Caeci caecos ducentes-á
pmchem GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 619	Posted - 2013.09.29 17:45:00 - [18] - Quote cuoredipietra famedoro wrote: for example yesterday i found sterile conduits' prices at 1.400.000 lowest sell when they had been around 930.000 the day before. I am not the one who bought all the stock, i am just one who produces those items and sells them, so i have some grasp on the usual prices. Yesterday I already made 1 billion extra profit just because of this. Someone is already beyond speculation, he/she/they are already moving the market. So let me get this straight: you read MD, know that all the major market gurus agree that Rubicon is going to drive PI prices up, know that powerplayers are already snapping up p4s as a long term investment... and you still SOLD the Sterile Conduits you produced? haha. free tip: if you're making p4s on factory planets (you poor soul), now is the time to hoard your production for post-Rubicon. Do not sell it. @pmchem on twitter \|\| GARPA \|\| Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal
cuoredipietra famedoro The Fated E.Y 7	Posted - 2013.09.29 17:59:00 - [19] - Quote Yes, i sold those, because i believe tha an egg today is better then (maybe) a chicken tomorrow, and because that keeps me iterating over an high volatile market which in turn generate profit at each iteration an not just once. Said that, when rubicon hits, i am one of the average joes that will move away from jita, i will adapt and keep making profits. Since there is nothing I can do to avoid this, I have not deluded myself into thinking that today's profits will be tomorrow profits. Caeci caecos ducentes-á
Adunh Slavy 1262	Posted - 2013.09.29 19:39:00 - [20] - Quote If prices on the high order goods goes up, because of trade hub factory planets, this will do a couple of thigns not yet mentioned. It will increase the cost of lower order goods near and around hubs. Either hub factory owners accept these higher costs, or they have to ship from further away, which will likely equal out their tax income. Higher priced high order goods (P3s & P4s), will encourage more people, from their own organization, and others, to also increase high order production, pushing those prices lower. Those from within the same organization can't use punitive taxes against others in their organization. Though we don't know yet about the build requirements of personal deployables, if they require PI goods, they may well be responsible for more PI price increases than anything done by high sec PI cartels. Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.-á-á- William Pitt
Varius Xeral Galactic Trade Syndicate 1241	Posted - 2013.09.29 19:51:00 - [21] - Quote Prices will go down from lower tax rates. Y'all gonna get burnt. Official Representative of The Nullsec Zealot Cabal
cuoredipietra famedoro The Fated E.Y 7	Posted - 2013.09.29 20:15:00 - [22] - Quote I believe adunh raised a couple of interesting points, thanks for the input :-) I also understand Varius' point of view and I am led to believe that tax rates well be overally lower except in solar systems with several temperate/barren planets and close to hubs (like sobaseki). In those system i believe tax rates will be actually higher for pilots who are not in holding corps/alliances: this would happen to leverage favorable spots for corp/alliance production and/or to allow rentals. For the sake of discussion, I would love if Varius could expand his ideas further Caeci caecos ducentes-á
mynnna GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 1889	Posted - 2013.09.29 22:46:00 - [23] - Quote cuoredipietra famedoro wrote: I believe adunh raised a couple of interesting points, thanks for the input :-) I also understand Varius' point of view and I am led to believe that tax rates well be overally lower except in solar systems with several temperate/barren planets and close to hubs (like sobaseki). In those system i believe tax rates will be actually higher for pilots who are not in holding corps/alliances: this would happen to leverage favorable spots for corp/alliance production and/or to allow rentals. For the sake of discussion, I would love if Varius could expand his ideas further Where did this "allow rentals" idea come from? It's going to be both easier and more lucrative to whoever is holding popular POCOs to merely set a competitive tax rate and let it ride than it would be to setup a separate alliance to hold them and require people to pay to join said alliance. Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal
Elizabeth Norn Nornir Research 78	Posted - 2013.09.30 02:04:00 - [24] - Quote Varius Xeral wrote: Prices will go down from lower tax rates. Y'all gonna get burnt. I happen to have it on good authority that P4s which have recently increased in price the most will further increase in price, you would be a fool not to invest after hearing information like that. .
Bunyip Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 18	Posted - 2013.09.30 03:11:00 - [25] - Quote The prices are rising right now, and they will probably continue to rise throughout the rest of the year, especially around launch time. Thereafter, they'll gradually return to their pre-speculation prices, and probably go lower. It's not unreasonable to think that there will be a 'rush on the bank' when news like this hits, and production will probably temporarily go down once the patch goes live. I'm not participating in the speculation 'wars', I'm just making my PI items in a remote system and having fun. Either way, you gotta love a semi-realistic market system, especially when news hits.
Adunh Slavy 1263	Posted - 2013.09.30 03:35:00 - [26] - Quote Bunyip wrote: The prices are rising right now, and they will probably continue to rise throughout the rest of the year, especially around launch time. My guess, a guess mind you is, pre launch spike, then a crash, a mid term bump and the new historical lows. News on what the build requirements for the deployables is, will make the picture more clear. Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.-á-á- William Pitt
Varius Xeral Galactic Trade Syndicate 1248	Posted - 2013.09.30 03:51:00 - [27] - Quote Adunh Slavy wrote: Bunyip wrote: The prices are rising right now, and they will probably continue to rise throughout the rest of the year, especially around launch time. My guess, a guess mind you is, pre launch spike, then a crash, a mid term bump and the new historical lows. News on what the build requirements for the deployables is, will make the picture more clear. Sounds about right for my half-ass guess too. Official Representative of The Nullsec Zealot Cabal
Zappity Kurved Space 481	Posted - 2013.09.30 07:29:00 - [28] - Quote Where did the pre-announcement speculation about highsec POCOs come from? I must have missed something because it was news to me. I thought something related to highsec sov might be likely when the original marauder rebalance thread went out but I didn't pick POCOs specifically. Just curious. Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec.
Carniflex StarHunt The Explicit Alliance 93	Posted - 2013.09.30 09:46:00 - [29] - Quote Cage Man wrote: Ever tried to pop a customs office without a dread? No small corp is going to even try. Maybe CCP will make the HS already in place CO's easier to pop. It's not that bad. 10 Oracles and go semiafk for hour or few. Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... THWONK! GOT the bastard.
mynnna GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 1890	Posted - 2013.09.30 11:56:00 - [30] - Quote Zappity wrote: Where did the pre-announcement speculation about highsec POCOs come from? I must have missed something because it was news to me. I thought something related to highsec sov might be likely when the original marauder rebalance thread went out but I didn't pick POCOs specifically. Just curious. CCP Soundwave mentioned them as "something he wanted to do" as far back as two years ago - first during alliance tournament IX, if I recall - and they've come up every once in awhile since. This time around specifically, some PI related changes players found from data mining chaos led them to suspect that they were finally being added. Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal

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