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Gadfly Hawke
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Posted - 2006.01.17 00:24:00 -
[1]
Why bother with it? I had a real problem and had to wend my way amongst discussions about all conceivable topics, including computer setups and other games, for gods sake. Rookie help isn't. Why bother with it? Drop it from the interface and free up that much space and memory. --------------------------------------------- You don't know the power of the dark side. -- Darth Vader |
Ominus Decre
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Posted - 2006.01.17 00:33:00 -
[2]
It serves as a deffintive channel for quick access to chat for da' nooblets! :P
Close it if it appears, it will be gone in about 30 days. :)
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Kylania
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Posted - 2006.01.17 01:09:00 -
[3]
Yup, you can leave it if you're anti-social. For other players it's a great resource and wonderful place to meet new players. I still have contact with many friends from my "class of Rookie Help June '05". :) -- Lil Miner |
Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2006.01.17 02:17:00 -
[4]
Its simply far overloaded with too many people, considering the expansion of EVE, and since about 6 months ago VETERANS CANNOT JOIN TO HELP! So generally it is useless. Try regular help, or post here. -- Proud member of the [23].
The Tachikomas are DEAD! Click sig for video.
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Kay Brack
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Posted - 2006.01.17 03:08:00 -
[5]
I try to answer questions when i can but yeah you have to watch for the answer between a boatload of spam.
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Talori'i
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Posted - 2006.01.17 03:31:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Talori''i on 17/01/2006 03:31:56 I have to admit with the 1000+ players in rookiee help, the talk in there is constant. Which means quite annoying when looking for an answer.
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Salerator
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Posted - 2006.01.17 03:45:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Gadfly Hawke Why bother with it? I had a real problem and had to wend my way amongst discussions about all conceivable topics, including computer setups and other games, for gods sake. Rookie help isn't. Why bother with it? Drop it from the interface and free up that much space and memory.
I help around 400 players a day. Just because you dont have enough attention span to wait till someone answers your question...
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Brastagi
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Posted - 2006.01.17 04:04:00 -
[8]
Probably this would be a good time for the dev to add more help channel --------- Please reduce your signature radius to be below 24.000 bytes - Jacques' Right, after I train my inty to lvl 5
~Mencari orang Indo~ |
Gerbil Intaki
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Posted - 2006.01.17 08:47:00 -
[9]
it is full of spam but if you ask shortish questions I've always got an answer (assuming its not in the tutorial)
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Gaius Sejanus
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Posted - 2006.01.17 10:16:00 -
[10]
Quote: It serves as a deffintive channel for quick access to chat for da' nooblets!
No it doesn't.
Quote: Yup, you can leave it if you're anti-social.
Has nothing to do with being anti-social. The channel is worthless.
Quote: For other players it's a great resource and wonderful place to meet new players.
No it isn't. No it isn't.
Quote: I still have contact with many friends from my "class of Rookie Help June '05"
In June of '05 it didn't have close to 3000 people in it.
Quote: Its simply far overloaded with too many people
This is factual information.
I always advise people to abandon rookie help the instant they log in. Newbie corporation chat is vastly more useful.
1) It is INCREDIBLY spammy. The odds of your question even being seen are almost nil. The odds of you seeing a response should someone even choose to make one are lower still.
2) 3/4s (at best) of the people in the channel have bad advice to give you. "What's a good ship to upgrade to?" Rifter! Navitas! Kestrel! Incursus! Merlin! Punisher! Useless.
3) The amount of lag that this channel creates is really quite frightening to behold. Everyone who dumps it immediately notices a huge improvement in general gameplay.
Making it a mandatory login was a mistake. At the very least, you should have the ability to turn off the mandatory opt-in prior to 30 days of account life.
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Hoshi
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Posted - 2006.01.17 11:06:00 -
[11]
I agree the information to noise ratio is a bit low it's still a good place. I often hang there with a noob chars to answer questions and in my experience most people get answers to their questions (at least when I am there).
There should really be more STAR members there, if nothing else to moderate the channel, keep the chatter out but it's still serves it's purpose.
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Hoshi
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Posted - 2006.01.17 11:10:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Gaius Sejanus 2) 3/4s (at best) of the people in the channel have bad advice to give you. "What's a good ship to upgrade to?" Rifter! Navitas! Kestrel! Incursus! Merlin! Punisher! Useless.
Uh these are all good frigate that most people do good to upgrade to from their noob ships. Now if you didn't not specify in your question what you where flying at the time and what you wanted to do with your new ship then don't expect a good answer. As you ask you will be answerd.
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Gerbil Intaki
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Posted - 2006.01.17 12:07:00 -
[13]
yup I've have upgraded from a Noob ship to a Navitas for the purposes of mining and I'm making 4x's as much as I was.
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Gaius Sejanus
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Posted - 2006.01.17 12:12:00 -
[14]
Quote: Uh these are all good frigate that most people do good to upgrade to from their noob ships.
3/4s of them are bad choices because they are going against race.
It's not just ships. "What's a good system to hunt rats in?"
"Anyone know a good agent for me?"
"How should I fit my ship?"
Newbie questions all, most of which you'll get poor answers to because other members of chat will be 20+ jumps away and working with a completely different set of variables than you. Good answers also tend to be fairly detailed (EVE being a pretty complex game and all), which the amount of spam in Rookie Help turns into a completely futile exercise.
It also doesn't help that the tutorial is about 1/4 as long as it should be. It really leaves a frightening amount of essential information completely untouched.
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Suhadi
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Posted - 2006.01.17 13:47:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Gaius Sejanus Newbie questions all, most of which you'll get poor answers to because other members of chat will be 20+ jumps away and working with a completely different set of variables than you.
You'll get poor answers because these are extremely poorly-phrased questions. I tend to answer these questions with questions of my own, such as:
"What's a good system to hunt rats in?" -What are you flying and where are you? "Anyone know a good agent for me?" -Mining? Combat? Courier? "How should I fit my ship?" -Fit it for what?
Most people find it easier to ask for answers rather than think about it themselves, if you encourage them to think about it they often find their own answers. -------------------------------------------------- - Suhadi |
Joe Mozart
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Posted - 2006.01.17 14:01:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Joe Mozart on 17/01/2006 14:02:44 Edited by: Joe Mozart on 17/01/2006 14:02:06
Originally by: Gaius Sejanus
You'll get poor answers because these are extremely poorly-phrased questions. I tend to answer these questions with questions of my own,
The problem is that the channel does not lend itself to such discussions. By the time you've asked your counter-question, 30 other people have asked questions and 10 people have spammed the channel with useless comments and it's quite likely that the person will miss your question as it's instantly scrolled off the screen by more spam.
As someone upthread said I've found the normal Help channel much more useful and conducive to the sort of discussion you suggest. Rookie Help updates too frequently to be readable most of the time.
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Loodo Viscious
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Posted - 2006.01.17 19:48:00 -
[17]
Rookie help helped me immensly. I have never asked a question in that channel that did not get answered by ATLEAST 1 person. I dont know how you could say it is useless. Maybe because you ALREADY know what your doing?
"who needs pitty from a pirate, and blow it up myself..."--Cergorach Imagine a really sweet Unicorn here |
Charlotte Gallfour
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Posted - 2006.01.17 19:51:00 -
[18]
It's good for the most basic of help. After that you already know the answers. The starter corp channel is better. --- "Let me do the buying while you do the dying." |
Drinky Crow
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Posted - 2006.01.17 20:20:00 -
[19]
People who say Rookie Help is useless are usually the ones that ask a single, poorly phrased question.... wait ten seconds and then start typing in ALL CAPS about how no one is helping them and they want their money back.
I've spent plenty of time in there answering as many questions as possible until my brain overloads and I need a break. An enhanced tutorial could help with some of the repeat questions.
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Rowgue
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Posted - 2006.01.17 23:19:00 -
[20]
The channel is overloaded with people chatting idly about anything that pops into their head, diverting it from it's purpose which is to help new people. However I've seen lots of good folks helping out and being helped, so I wouldn't say it's useless.
And the main reason there tends to be so much spam there is because I've found the dynamics of the chat system to be much different here than in other games. Here you have modeless chat. In most games all chat shows up in the same window so people tend to just chat in local and respond to tells/guild/friends type privates. Here next to nobody uses local channels or the rookie corp channels. 95% of people are locked in on their corp channel. The few answers I got from "Veterans" in the real help channel ended up being intentionally misleading information just so they could send me in the wrong direction and laugh at me.
People turn to the rook channel because until you join a player corp there's not much help to be found anywhere else.
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Gaius Sejanus
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Posted - 2006.01.18 00:32:00 -
[21]
Quote: People who say Rookie Help is useless are usually the ones that ask a single, poorly phrased question
I say it is useless from the perspective of the person who answers the questions, not asks them.
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Malena Panic
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Posted - 2006.01.18 12:52:00 -
[22]
My chief beef with Rookie Help is not even so much the constant *****ing and whining about people who post in foreign languages there, but the obligatory racist comments that accompany said whining. Are people so xenophobic that they can't handle seeing a foreign text every now and then? Maybe the poster can't find help on the language channel? And the odd comment you can't understand isn't going to have a real effect on the amount of crap that flows through the channel.
The racist abuse really gets me though. I don't play a game to see that.
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psychnosiz
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Posted - 2006.01.18 13:08:00 -
[23]
Edited by: psychnosiz on 18/01/2006 13:08:21
Originally by: Gaius Sejanus I tend to answer these questions with questions of my own, such as:
What I notocied in my first days, is that it's very hard tp actually set up a full-phrased question (including all info etc...) and getting an answer. It's a lot of typing work and the post flashed off in a few sec so it's impossible to read.
Some persons answering the question (the cyan colours are the ops I presume) are trying to do a good job though and answering as many questions as possible but many ppl just shout something inbetween (without them even being actually sure of what they say imo).
It can be useful, but I'm switching to forums if I need any more help.
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Chia
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Posted - 2006.01.18 13:44:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Rowgue The channel is overloaded with people chatting idly about anything that pops into their head
This is one of the main problems in my opinion, and one the main help channel suffers from too. If people (Rookies and Vets alike) would treat the channel with a little discretion, things could be much better.
A lot of people like to spam running commentaries about their agent missions, skill training, mining ops etc. Some go there just to wave their e-peen at the newbies or to suck up to ISD. Those people really need to find another channel for that.
Full-blown political arguments and discussions of whether the physics in Eve is unrealistic should be left at the door. A little chit-chat while the channel is quiet is inevitable, but people need to stop clogging up the channel so that no-one can read the real questions.
For those answering questions: Please, please, make sure you're giving good advice. I've seen so many people talk absolute nonsense and bad advice is often worse than none at all. If you're not sure about the answer, either say so, or don't answer at all.
For those asking: understand that most of the people answering are players - just like yourself - who give their time to help others. Be clear, calm and consise about your question and you stand a much better chance of getting a good answer.
Even so, rookie chat is one very busy channel and there'll always be times when questions fly by unanswered. I created a new account recently and spent some time in there and my head was spinning before long. Maybe it's time to split it down into categories such as missions, ships & modules, mining, etc.
Fly safe, C.
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Nuri Aderynn
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Posted - 2006.01.18 14:02:00 -
[25]
My starter corp (University of Caille) was far superior to the official 'help' channels. It wasn't as busy and there were enough experienced players to help the new people. The additional benefit that can't be attained through more general channels is you know exactly where the question is coming from and don't have to narrow anything down. You know you'll never be asked how to outfit a Rifter, or how Energy Turrets work, and you'll know exactly which agents they are working for (Austant Lange, then Bram Vynneve, and the next one doesn't matter because it's a bug).
I think alumni of the starter schools should be allowed to rejoin the chat channel if they wish and help the new students. I would, from time to time.
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Kelador Stormwolf
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Posted - 2006.01.18 14:12:00 -
[26]
As a recent EvE newbie I have to agree that the Rookie channel as it stands is close to useless, simply because of the number of people talking at the same time - it's a textual Tower of Babel ;)
That's not to say you can't glean the occasional nugget of information from it, but on the whole asking a question of any complexity is a futile exercise - not only do you get myriad answers (50% of which are uninformed, 40% are people castigating you for asking an 'obvious' question that's been asked 20 times already in the last hour and 10% are people genuinely trying to help but lost in the spam.
It doesn't help that the screen area available for the text window is so small either. With so much going on in the game, screen real estate is at a premium so making the chat window larger while getting to grips with the Market, fighting NPCs, mining and running tutorial missions isn't really an option.
A possible solution would be to have multiple channels all called 'Rookie Help', with the load balanced between them - say 2-300 people per channel so you have Rookie Help[1] up to Rookie Help[10] (on a busy day). On login you get assigned to the first available Help channel, although swapping could be allowed if there's a particular need to be in a certain channel (if you can't get an answer in the channel you are currently in) but you can only be in one ROokie Channel at a time.
"I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it." |
Malena Panic
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Posted - 2006.01.18 14:51:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Nuri Aderynn ...you'll know exactly which agents they are working for (Austant Lange, then Bram Vynneve, and the next one doesn't matter because it's a bug).
Wait, what? I've been trying to do that storyline. Is there a workaround?
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Talori'i
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Posted - 2006.01.25 23:02:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Talori''i on 25/01/2006 23:02:19
Originally by: Nuri Aderynn My starter corp (University of Caille) was far superior to the official 'help' channels. It wasn't as busy and there were enough experienced players to help the new people. The additional benefit that can't be attained through more general channels is you know exactly where the question is coming from and don't have to narrow anything down. You know you'll never be asked how to outfit a Rifter, or how Energy Turrets work, and you'll know exactly which agents they are working for (Austant Lange, then Bram Vynneve, and the next one doesn't matter because it's a bug).
I think alumni of the starter schools should be allowed to rejoin the chat channel if they wish and help the new students. I would, from time to time.
I am still a member of UoC(Univ. Of Caille) but I started playing 2 weeks ago too. I have to admit the help there is usually 10x better than other channels. When it comes to noob questions. At least all the players I see and I have been on quite a bit will give really good answers to newbie questions. After I posted above and thought about how useless Rookiee Help was, I remembered how good UoC corp channel is, I am guessing other NPC Corp channels for the newbies are just as good.
IF YOU WANT HELP TRY YOUR NEWBIE NPC CORP CHANNEL
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Tony Fats
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Posted - 2006.01.25 23:13:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Gaius Sejanus
Quote: Uh these are all good frigate that most people do good to upgrade to from their noob ships.
3/4s of them are bad choices because they are going against race.
It's not just ships. "What's a good system to hunt rats in?"
"Anyone know a good agent for me?"
"How should I fit my ship?"
Newbie questions all, most of which you'll get poor answers to because other members of chat will be 20+ jumps away and working with a completely different set of variables than you. Good answers also tend to be fairly detailed (EVE being a pretty complex game and all), which the amount of spam in Rookie Help turns into a completely futile exercise.
It also doesn't help that the tutorial is about 1/4 as long as it should be. It really leaves a frightening amount of essential information completely untouched.
You are getting a bad answer because everybody on Rookie Help channel is also a newbie.
You got newbies telling newbies what ship to get.
That being said it is definitely not worthless, you just have to put more time into discussing things before you get a really good answer. The folks there are usually well-meaning and will TRY to help but with hundreds of people its hard to see the forest through the trees.
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Corunna ElMan
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Posted - 2006.01.25 23:23:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Tony Fats You are getting a bad answer because everybody on Rookie Help channel is also a newbie.
That sure fits my definition of "useless". The term is "blind leading the blind".
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