| Pages: 1 [2] 3 :: one page |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
nono
   |
Posted - 2003.08.25 00:53:00 -
[31]
Why is this thread still here?
Did Wrangler go for dinner or something?
He majically appeared and the thread on the insurance scam disappeared pretty quick when others of the same nature still exist.
Games almost dead, is there anything else to add to the list?
Exploits
Cheats
Dupes
Favoritism
Macro's
Broken features
None functional features
............
|
Ctaesis
|
Posted - 2003.08.25 00:54:00 -
[32]
@Mitch
Actually, I've already addressed that line. Here, I'll quote it so that you don't have to go find it.
 Quote:
@Cruise
"[You may not] use any kinds of third party add-ons, extras or tools for the game."
Do you use a mining ore calculator? Do you use the stats at eve-db.com? Do you use the blueprint mineral lookup lists? Do you use a calculator to compare trade routes? Do you use a pencil and paper to take notes? All of these are 3rd party "addons, extras or tools for the game." Aldo's Macro Recorder is in the same catagory as all of these.
If AMR is not legit, then none of these tools are legit.
________________
"Warp to Desktop" -- American PCGamer
|
The Reclaimer
|
Posted - 2003.08.25 00:54:00 -
[33]
As if I needed another reason to hate the Pirate Loving scum know as TTI.
|
Mitch Taylor
|
Posted - 2003.08.25 00:57:00 -
[34]
You cannot seriouly put macro use into the same catagory as a calculator or pencil and paper(ive never used any of that other crap, never needed it). Its been stated before, macro use IS against the EULA, it IS against CCPs policy and I hope they BAN you for using it.
|
Entity
|
Posted - 2003.08.25 00:58:00 -
[35]
Ahh, the usual "It's not a cheat, it just makes something tedious easier" excuse, followed by bending the wording in the EULA in such a way that you think you're in the clear. 
Deep down inside you KNOW you're only fooling yourself, right?
 |
HendriX
|
Posted - 2003.08.25 01:01:00 -
[36]
Well, ore calculator thing that you give an example of, which is widely used, is not something that affects the game or how it flows, I actually have a calculator right besides my mouse that I use more than such a thing.
Anyway, I think I understand your situation perfectly that you're trying to give unrelated examples by comparing something that you use to make money while AFK with something that does simple math. You're trying to prove a point that does not exist. But, thats OK, as I have seen it done many times...
Oh, and I did not call you names, I just stated the obvious.
|
Ctaesis
|
Posted - 2003.08.25 01:03:00 -
[37]
I love you guys, even though you are blinded by idealism and have a Pavlovian reaction to the word "macro".
I realize that in games like EQ people could set up macros to do a bunch of stuff and ruin the game.
I believe that using Aldo's Macro Recorder in this way is legit per the terms of the EULA. Furthermore, I have no idea how you could record the keystrokes necessary to "target and fire" or "warp away" reliably given the full 3D atmosphere of the game. If you have any ideas how, please don't let me know. I'm not up for full automation of EVE.
________________
"Warp to Desktop" -- American PCGamer
|
Joshua Calvert
|
Posted - 2003.08.25 01:05:00 -
[38]
You're not up for full automation of Eve yet you're highlighting a way of making it so?
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Cruise
|
Posted - 2003.08.25 01:07:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Cruise on 25/08/2003 01:10:14
Ah, I nearly forgot the most important rule of conduct that applies in this case:
#9: You will not encourage any one else to violate these rules.
Given my posting about the rule #7 violation, here's the first part of what you posted:
"Use Aldo's Macro Recorder to automate dragging ore from your cargo hold to a cargo container every 60 seconds or so.
"It'll free you up for more important tasks like taking a shower, going to class, or spending a day at the beach."
If you look at rule #7 and rule #9, you've violated two in one go. Not only that you've openly promoted others to do the same. Don't you get it yet?
And for the record, no, I do not use any third party program, cheat, hack, macro or anything otherwise that affects the game of EVE. I don't use pencil and paper to mark things down because - to date - I've not felt the need or desire to do so.
-------------------------------------------
Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis ad capul tuum saxum immane mittam.
|
Ctaesis
|
Posted - 2003.08.25 01:16:00 -
[40]
@Cruise
Clearly #9 follows from #7 - you don't have to point that out to me. However, since I contend that I am not in violation of #7 your point is moot.
Thanks for playing. Please drive through.
________________
"Warp to Desktop" -- American PCGamer
|
Joshua Calvert
|
Posted - 2003.08.25 01:18:00 -
[41]
Maybe someone should ask, at the next CSM, whether macro's of any kind are illegal and, if not, in what way they can be used without breaking some rules.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Ctaesis
|
Posted - 2003.08.25 01:21:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Ctaesis on 25/08/2003 01:22:03
That's an amazingly intelligent reply Josh. You get two points.
I'd also ask how CCP plans to detect usage of macros if they are in fact, illegal (via some interpretation of the EULA that defies all logic).
________________
"Warp to Desktop" -- American PCGamer
|
Cruise
|
Posted - 2003.08.25 01:22:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Cruise on 25/08/2003 01:23:26
Hang on here. You've seen the rules. You agreed to abide by those rules when you installed the game onto your computer. You've posted a thread with content that clearly violates the rules and yet you claim NOT to be in violation? Displacing that with an 'other people do it so it's okay' disclaimer doesn't clear you of a rules violation. Quit trying to act like you're justified by your own reasoning. The rules state clearly you CAN'T use that macro and you CAN'T encourage people to use it. How do you really think you can circumvent something in black and white?
-------------------------------------------
Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis ad capul tuum saxum immane mittam.
|
Joshua Calvert
|
Posted - 2003.08.25 01:22:00 -
[44]
I was going for three points, damn it.
It was my sentence structure that cost me.
Anyway, I think macro's are wrong wrong wrong.
I'll continue to think they are wrong even if CCP say it's ok.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Joshua Calvert
|
Posted - 2003.08.25 01:24:00 -
[45]
Ctaesis wrote
Quote:
I'd also ask how CCP plans to detect usage of macros if they are in fact, illegal (via some interpretation of the EULA that defies all logic).
I have no idea but, if it DOES turn out that using a macro as you've described IS illegal, then TTI's mining ops may get a little bit of GM attention, no?
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Ctaesis
|
Posted - 2003.08.25 01:26:00 -
[46]
@Cruise
Still you seem to think that just because *something* is in this thing called a "EULA", then somehow I am already in violation.
However, I contend that I am not in violation of the current EULA - though it may be amended in the future (see the relevant subsection).
Why do you persecute me? I am innocent!
________________
"Warp to Desktop" -- American PCGamer
|
Mitch Taylor
|
Posted - 2003.08.25 01:29:00 -
[47]
Well we will soon see if you are.
|
Cruise
|
Posted - 2003.08.25 01:30:00 -
[48]
Because you are quoting the EULA, I'M quoting CCP's own game rules. If you doubt that, look them up in the eve-online support section. Do a search under 'rules' and then click on 'What are the rules of conduct?'
If you read through those (the same ones that popped up on your screen when you began to install the game onto your computer and you pressed the 'agree' button to continue) you'll note CCP and S&S in there, NOT the EULA.
These rules were generated by Simon and Shuster and CCP. They apply to everyone, in black and white, who play the game.
-------------------------------------------
Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis ad capul tuum saxum immane mittam.
|
Biscotto
|
Posted - 2003.08.25 01:39:00 -
[49]
Quote:
Why do you persecute me? I am innocent!
Innocent of what?
Of using a 3rd party program/macro/application?Completely outside of the context of the game?
I can live with afk miners in industrials, they set it up, and go afk, x hrs later hold is full and the mining stops.
That would happen if they sat at the keyboard anyway doing nothing.
But your choice is to automate something within a game that could not happen unless you were sat at the keyboard.
Eve lets you advance enough, with realtime training. There is no reason to spoil it by what is effectively cheating.
Call it a sense of personal honour if you will
Carry forth the light of Redemption.
Take it unto the places filled with darkness,
And with it destroy the shadows. |
Ctaesis
|
Posted - 2003.08.25 01:46:00 -
[50]
@Cruise
The only rules are those that are in the liscence.txt file which may or may not have anything to do with the "agree"/"decline" button on the startup screen. In fact, the validity of the EULA (End User License Agreement) has yet to be tested in a court of law. However, I digress.
Even under those flimsy rules, I am still not guilty - but hey don't let the facts stop you - keep those accusations coming!
@Josh
Quote:
I have no idea but, if it DOES turn out that using a macro as you've described IS illegal, then TTI's mining ops may get a little bit of GM attention, no?
They may, but what they'll find are a highly efficient system that blows away whatever other corporations have come up with. They may find me using Aldo's Macro Recorder. I'm not exactly sure how - since cargo containers are bugged. Anyway, like I said, I just found this out this weekend, and I told the community because I think it would be useful.
Also, do you think AFK Mining in a hauler is "illegal"? It's the same thing - they go on an AFK shopping trip and at the same time make "money for nothing." Cruise, I'd also like your opinion on this.
________________
"Warp to Desktop" -- American PCGamer
|
Entity
|
Posted - 2003.08.25 01:49:00 -
[51]
Enough of this nonsense. It's not even open to debate whether this is allowed or not. It's not. Period. Dot.
Why? Imagine if CCP condoned this thing: next we'll have people macroing activation of afterburners, reloading all weapons, etc, and people claiming it's okay because automated ore transfer is too!
I can see that fully EVE integrated javascript interpreter already 
But, let's be realistic for a moment...
I'm sure a lot of clever people figured out using macros makes life a whole lot easier (hey, there's the "beneficial" part of that no-macros rule in the EULA), and it's a safe bet a lot of the powergamers use them.
There's the silent types who will never disclose what they do. They are the smart people and will probably get away with it if they know where and when to stop.
And then there's the people that openly admit and even encourage others to cheat, on the official forum  .
This must be one of the dumbest moves I've seen in a while. Not only are you risking a ban, you're also ruining your reputation and giving your corp negative publicity.
*hands Ctaesis a paddle* You're going to need that.
|
Biscotto
|
Posted - 2003.08.25 01:57:00 -
[52]
Quote:
Also, do you think AFK Mining in a hauler is "illegal"? It's the same thing - they go on an AFK shopping trip and at the same time make "money for nothing." Cruise, I'd also like your opinion on this.
Hello!!
Of course its not
The AFK miner in an indy pulls up to an asteroid, sets mining laser away. He knows its safe. OK he can sit there for 2 hrs(whatever) watching his hold fill up, or he can go watch TV, no difference. Its all in the game mechanics/enviroment, sure m0o, whoever can blow him up.
What you want to do is take advantage of those game mechanics, so you have a 3rd party aplication that fills a container as well, without you being at the keyboard.
Its like using an aimbot in CS or Q3, its cheating
Carry forth the light of Redemption.
Take it unto the places filled with darkness,
And with it destroy the shadows. |
Cruise
|
Posted - 2003.08.25 01:57:00 -
[53]
Edited by: Cruise on 25/08/2003 02:00:41
I personally find AFK mining -the macro-based AFK mining/hauling - deplorable. Anything that someone uses as a tool, cheat or otherwise - to better their situation within a game - lessens the gaming value, at least to me.
If you buy a game and find it too difficult, tedious or time-consuming and the only way you feel it's 'fair' to get ahead is via some sort of means not already part of the game itself, then you really have lost the point of enjoying the game for it's entertainment value.
I have read numerous threads of people complaining about certain facets of this game they don't like, with the common cry of 'it's not like that in real life!' Can you do THIS in real life? Can you set yourself up, say, to mine a gold mine and automate your movements while somewhere else your mind's working a crossword puzzle?
Yeah, you'd automate things as much as humanly possible, to take the physical burden off yourself, but you'd still at least monitor the progress and make adjustments as necessary. You certainly don't apply that same logic by using some repetitive action recorded macro that allows you to walk away and rake in ISK by the millions while not even being near the pc.
-------------------------------------------
Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis ad capul tuum saxum immane mittam.
|
Capt Xpendable
|
Posted - 2003.08.25 01:58:00 -
[54]
I love desktop lawyers
Here is my ***** at it.
Quote:
You may not use macros
OR
other stored rapid keystrokes
OR
other patterns of play that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play.
I highlighted the OR's to emphasize that the second and third part of the sentance are not meant to define what a macro is, they are meant to be a "catch-all" to cover anything that ISN'T technically a macro. If the program is stated to be a macro, then it falls under the first part of the sentance "You may not use macros".
--------------------------------------------
"Let me guess. My theories appall you, my heresies outrage you, I never answer letters and you don't like my tie."
The Doctor |
Ctaesis
|
Posted - 2003.08.25 01:59:00 -
[55]
@Entity
Quote:
Enough of this nonsense. It's not even open to debate whether this is allowed or not. It's not. Period. Dot.
Who are you? Are you a lawyer for CCP? Do you have any authority on what is and what is not legal to do in this game?
Oh, that's right, you're just a customer who has an opinion. Right. Nothing to see here.
The fact remains that using Aldo's Macro Recorder is perfectly legal under the terms of the EULA. If they are changed, then I would hope to be given the option to withdraw my endorsement of Aldo's Macro Recorder.
________________
"Warp to Desktop" -- American PCGamer
|
Entity
|
Posted - 2003.08.25 02:03:00 -
[56]
Quote:
The fact remains that using Aldo's Macro Recorder is perfectly legal under the terms of the EULA
By the way, I have a bridge for sale.
|
Biscotto
|
Posted - 2003.08.25 02:07:00 -
[57]
Edited by: Biscotto on 25/08/2003 02:07:17
Quote:
Quote:
The fact remains that using Aldo's Macro Recorder is perfectly legal under the terms of the EULA
By the way, I have a bridge for sale.
I have some firelighters going cheap
Carry forth the light of Redemption.
Take it unto the places filled with darkness,
And with it destroy the shadows. |
Ctaesis
|
Posted - 2003.08.25 02:08:00 -
[58]
@Capt Xpendable
That's the first serious analysis of the passage yet. Thank you for pointing that section out to me instead of just ranting and raving like some of these other folks.
Since your argument seems sound then Aldo's Macro Recorder, while a kick ass system automation tool in general, cannot be used with EVE. That's a shame.
Oh well, I guess I'll stop using it.
________________
"Warp to Desktop" -- American PCGamer
|
Biscotto
|
Posted - 2003.08.25 02:12:00 -
[59]
Edited by: Biscotto on 25/08/2003 02:14:21
Edited by: Biscotto on 25/08/2003 02:13:52
Quote:
That's the first serious analysis of the passage yet. Thank you for pointing that section out to me instead of just ranting and raving like some of these other folks.
Since your argument seems sound then Aldo's Macro Recorder, while a kick ass system automation tool in general, cannot be used with EVE. That's a shame.
Oh well, I guess I'll stop using it.
I think you will find that the majority of people posted very good arguements and did not rant. Im pleased you have seen the light. Takes a big person to stand up and say yes i was wrong.
Have fun
Carry forth the light of Redemption.
Take it unto the places filled with darkness,
And with it destroy the shadows. |
Cruise
|
Posted - 2003.08.25 02:12:00 -
[60]
Edited by: Cruise on 25/08/2003 02:21:31
Ctaesis, if you don't understand any other solitary point addressed by all the other people who've posted in this thread, understand this:
CCP developed those rules and went so far as to post them on their website. If you think someone randomly put a bunch of words together just to cover thier asses, think again. I'm sure the wording in each one of those rules came from advice, input and direction of corporate lawyers, the ones that represent CCP and S&S. In this day and age of a lawsuit-happy public, they really had no choice.
That being said, when you agreed to abide by their rules, you agreed not to use macros, third party programs, and the like. You also agreed not to promote the use of the same.
Whether you like it or not, CCP has the right to ban you and terminate your subscription with them based on that initial post alone. You may not agree with that, but it's the truth.
-------------------------------------------
Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis ad capul tuum saxum immane mittam.
|
| |
|
| Pages: 1 [2] 3 :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |