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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 5 post(s) |

Raimo
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
2
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Posted - 2011.10.31 16:01:00 -
[1] - Quote
A lot of the changes look ok but a few important points:
The T2 ammo changes look shady. The tracking boosts and improving Hail range are really too much (Hail is v good as is)
And most importantly, the blaster boost is inadequate by a large margin. They really need something more to be worth bringing over longer range weapons!
IMHO a 5-10% damage boost would be the ticket, but even more wouldn't really be OP. They need to do *massive* damage to justify using them in the current state of the game. |

Raimo
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
3
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Posted - 2011.10.31 16:27:00 -
[2] - Quote
Morel Nova wrote:I like it overall, but a few reflections:
1. I still think blasters need a flat 10% or so damage buff up close, perhaps even 20% to make them competitive, as it is now an armor hurricane will out-dps a brutix and be more agile/faster (not sure if that last one changes with this), and it still has decent range. Tracking boost isnt much of a boost considering any AC ships you fight will have dual TE most of the time, so will still track just as well as you.
I did some rough calculations some time ago of vagabond vs deimos, both standard fits and deimos needs to catch and get to optimal within 15 seconds to win that engagement. that is a very short period of time and it didnt even factor in the vagabonds tracking advantage.
2. Hail doesnt need its ranged penalty removed. not sure where you got the idea that it was under performant. its been the only close range t2 ammo thats been useful the last few years.
This really. (With formatting) |

Raimo
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
3
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Posted - 2011.10.31 16:37:00 -
[3] - Quote
Hungry Eyes wrote:Perdition64 wrote: hurricane vs brutix this is a good summary of why pvp'ers generally stick with AC platforms. - incredible falloff - better tracking - no cap use - minnie ships are the fastest - while tank remains on par with all other ships this is overpowered. you have to give people a reason NOT TO fly an AC boat at medium/close ranges. remember, one scram and the blaster boat is dead in the water....AC boat is still doing significant damage at 25km, medium blasters dont work past 10km.
And this. Max gank fitted Brutix overloads 965 DPS without implants, Hurricane does 905 DPS or 821 DPS with amazing neuting power while outperforming in nearly every other way (muuch faster even after the change, able to deal good damage outside of scram range etc) |

Raimo
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
4
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Posted - 2011.10.31 18:48:00 -
[4] - Quote
Gabriel Karade wrote:Can I ask how you came to the figure of 20% for the tracking boost?
I ask as, in the context of the web changes you refer to (90% --> 60%, representing a 400% change to potential target speeds under webbing), the proposed boost seems a bit 'meh'.
Also one thing that is mentioned a lot is damage; have you ever considered something such as boosting the 'overload' damage for blasters - i.e. you might not make it into the fight, but if you by some miracle get within optimal, you can shunt everything into the guns for a brief period to overwhelm a target.
I like this variation as well.
Like I stated previously, IMHO the stated boost in OP is in the right direction, but at least the blaster boost is too little.
So, either do
A) 10-20% straight damage boost to blasters in addition to the tracking boost
or
B) 5-10% straight damage boost and 20-30% overload damage boost
Numbers might obviously need tweaking but that would indeed make the game so much more exciting to play!
That being said, I wouldn't be opposed to a *Slight* falloff boost to blasters either, though I'd still prefer for them to retain their unique identity as close range face melting instead of just being cap using ACs... (if they have the DPS for the job that is) |

Raimo
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
4
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Posted - 2011.10.31 18:53:00 -
[5] - Quote
Valarie Rikeen wrote: We can see that DPS is not too far apart, (768 dps vs 592 dps), yet the speed of a hurricane is 1434 m/s vs the Brutix's 1112 m/s (before the change). Tank is only different by 4k EHP.
thats not really "close" brutix has 25% more damage. also, remember you are comparing a tier 1 BC with a tier 2
Just needed to correct this, read my later post, the real 3 damage mod gank fit overload DPS figures are 965 for Brutix and 905 for Hurricane, sans implants.
Also, the tier system is ******** anyway so it's not a good justification, and in the Gallente case, Brutix is the gank BC anyway Myrm. gank DPS vs Cane is even worse, Myrm ganks for only 868 so fix Hybrids AND Drones, eh? |

Raimo
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
8
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Posted - 2011.10.31 23:00:00 -
[6] - Quote
Instant or drastically faster reload times for hybrids could be a decent "fix" too. |

Raimo
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
10
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Posted - 2011.11.01 08:05:00 -
[7] - Quote
Gynoceros wrote:These changes are a nice start, but, as others have already said, I don't think you can truly fix blasters as long as armor tanking has such a huge impact on speed and agility.
BTW, while you are looking at T2 ammo, Null needs a buff. Null only gives a 25% boost to effective (optimal + falloff) range while the 50% bonuses to optimal and falloff for Scorch and Barrage, respectively, represent ~40% boost to total optimal + falloff. For example:
Heavy Pulse Laser II (Base): 15km + 5km Heavy Pulse Laser II (Scorch): 22.5km + 5km Total boost to optimal + falloff: 37.5%
425mm AutoCannon II (Base): 3km + 12km 425mm AutoCannon II (Barrage): 3km + 18km Total boost to optimal + falloff: 40%
Null either needs a boost to its range bonuses, or some other bonus to bring it in line with Scorch and Barrage.
This is a good point, bringing Null in line with the other long range T2 ammos somehow. And if Hail really gets a boost that it doesn't need, include Void too.
And I still think Blasters need a general 10-20% more DPS, and/or the previously mentioned much better overload DPS.
And FWIW I think rigs and rig drawbacks really need looking into very soon though I understand that it's not going to happen in this patch. But armor rig penalties are a big problem for orthodox fitted Gallente, and damage rigs could use a calibration reduction as well. |

Raimo
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
10
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Posted - 2011.11.01 08:07:00 -
[8] - Quote
Tiger's Spirit wrote:
This changes not enough. Blaster ships will still useable for docking warriors, but not enough for real fighters who want to fight not just at the stations
Oh and please Tallest, try to weed through the massive amounts of trolling ITT. |

Raimo
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
11
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Posted - 2011.11.01 18:31:00 -
[9] - Quote
Bottom line why I think blasters really still need either added DPS OR added overload DPS: The game desperately needs a new FOTM, contrary to what many people ITT say. That's the only way to get bittervets to resubscribe in larger amounts, people need to get back to good old fashioned theory crafting and EFT warrioring tbh. Thus the blaster boost will need to at least *appear* very major (and tbh the commonly suggested 10-20% dps boost wouldn't actually be major in current TQ gameplay anyway. DPS/EHP/Speedwise the blasterboats will *still* die to a lot of their peers and be hard to use in gangs)
And I'm not asking for my own sake, I am already FOTM proof (most weapon systems and ships maxed, everything below cruiser size)
But I would like to see this game thrive once again, and shaking the balance and game mechanics is the ticket. But definitely, re-iteration on a more frequent basis than what the last few years has happened needs to happen in the future as well, and the FOTMs need to be changing... |

Raimo
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
11
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Posted - 2011.11.01 18:41:00 -
[10] - Quote
Gabriel Karade wrote:... Overload damage boostCome on Tallest, you know you want to... 
Not emptyquoting! Would bring a nice unique gameplay twist and complement the blaster role very nicely. |
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Raimo
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
11
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Posted - 2011.11.01 19:04:00 -
[11] - Quote
Hamox wrote:Raimo wrote:and the FOTMs need to be changing... Yepp, in reallity every faction would spend huge amounts on developing technologies to get the advantage. Why not make the same real for EVE. Make it an never ending balancing process where the FOTM will change constantly and everybody gets exited what the Amarr answer will be on improved Hybrids and so on. Fix it up, fix it down, just keep on moving. Everything is better than have for example the Tengu to be the standard ship for PVE and WH activity for ages now ;)
Of course, CCP used to do this, I actually thought it was a very clever way to keep ppl subbed for longer as eventually everyone wanted to train all races due to the changing game balance. It's just that 1-2 years ago they basically stopped doing it... |

Raimo
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
12
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Posted - 2011.11.02 06:42:00 -
[12] - Quote
BTW, one possible and more finely balanced version of the additional blaster boost would be along the lines of
5-10% +DPS for small blasters (they're best off atm, afterall)
20-30% +DPS for medium blasters (worst off atm)
10-20% +DPS fo large blasters (though lol battleships)
...And/or a massive overload damage boost. ;) |

Raimo
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
15
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Posted - 2011.11.02 17:03:00 -
[13] - Quote
Hi Tallest, thanks for your reply!
CCP Tallest wrote:
"Armor rigs should not reduce speed" Possibly... I definitely considered it and haven't completely dismissed it.
"This isn't enough, we need bigger boosts to damage" That is entirely possible but I believe this is a good starting point.
The 2 most important points from your post, IMHO. Please do consider these carefully before going live (and ok, Hail too)
(And do consider overload damage buff combined with a very small straight damage boost as a possibility for blasters, too. But they really do need more damage) |

Raimo
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
15
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Posted - 2011.11.02 17:04:00 -
[14] - Quote
Zarnak Wulf wrote: I approve of getting it to SISSI to start testing it. With regards to specifics for the Deimos:
It's too large. 160m signature radius as it slowly charges it's enemies means not much will fail to hit it. It's too slow. It goes half the speed of a Vagabond and has 25% of the range. Comparing ships and even the Eagle goes faster then it - before you add plates or anything else. It's bonuses should be looked at. With less cap going to the guns is the MWD bonus all that neccesary? I would suggest either the much maligned web bonus OR an overheat bonus OR a warp core stab point ala blockade runners for leaving when the stars don't line up.
While the MWD bonus is actually somewhat good, I'd *love* to see the bolded bit implemented instead! :D |
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