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Sol Garak
Old Dominion Engineering
Official Society of Honor and Trust
0
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Posted - 2013.09.29 05:28:00 -
[1] - Quote
I'll keep this short. I've searched high and low across google, but cannot find an answer and was hoping someone here could point me in the right direction. Basically, I have a blueprint copy (material level of 50) and when I go to manufacture the item besides the minerals required I see numbers ranging from 23.1% to 73% waste.
I've looked up the waste calculation online, and I should be at 1.05x the required minerals (or close to there). Where the game is saying I need almost 4x the minerals in some cases.... How is this even possible?
FYI / additional details
My production Efficiency skill - 4
BPC Material level - 50
BPC Wastage Factor 0.2%
as an example
Isogen: BPC says [You 535 - Perfect 510], but when I go to manufacture it says Isogen required: 1910 Waste: 73.3%.
I'm stumped, so if any one else has any ideas, then I'm all ears, and your help will be greatly appreciated. |
Sol Garak
Old Dominion Engineering
Official Society of Honor and Trust
0
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 05:49:00 -
[2] - Quote
Well, it's almost 2 am here. So, I'm getting off with the hopes of find a solution tomorrow. Thanks to anyone reading this thread. |
Tydeth Gilitae
Magewright Artificers
24
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Posted - 2013.09.29 06:18:00 -
[3] - Quote
Underneath the list of Materials is another list: Extra Materials. Those are also required, but listed separately as those are materials you won't get back if you recycle the product later. Extra Materials do not care about ME levels, or Production Efficiency skill iirc. |
Tigerras
Smash Incorporated
0
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Posted - 2013.09.29 14:32:00 -
[4] - Quote
Those numbers seem a bit off anyway.
Are you manufacturing at a station, POS, what?
What bluepritn are you manufacturing (if you don't want to say, you could just say T1 battleship or T2 cruiser)
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Sol Garak
Old Dominion Engineering
Official Society of Honor and Trust
0
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Posted - 2013.09.29 14:54:00 -
[5] - Quote
Tydeth Gilitae wrote:Underneath the list of Materials is another list: Extra Materials. Those are also required, but listed separately as those are materials you won't get back if you recycle the product later. Extra Materials do not care about ME levels, or Production Efficiency skill iirc.
Yea, I was trying to keep it simple, but this is just an example from the top portion. I'll post a partial screen shot so you can see exactly what I'm talking about.
http://i.imgur.com/ISB5FY6.png
Tigerras wrote:
Those numbers seem a bit off anyway.
Are you manufacturing at a station, POS, what?
What bluepritn are you manufacturing (if you don't want to say, you could just say T1 battleship or T2 cruiser).
This is at a highsec station, and it's a procurer BPC (I don't really care, since I'm probably going to use it on my alt) |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
1921
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Posted - 2013.09.29 15:00:00 -
[6] - Quote
It's a bug in the display code.
Extra materials are affected by Production Efficiency waste, if they also appear in the base materials. But the display code puts all the waste against the base material.
If you look at https://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/blueprints/0/17480/50/4/0/5 the numbers should add up to the totals you're needing, but be displayed split up correctly.
Steve Ronuken for CSM 9!-á I'm starting early :)
Handy tools and an SDE conversion
Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter |
Sol Garak
Old Dominion Engineering
Official Society of Honor and Trust
0
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 15:12:00 -
[7] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:It's a bug in the display code. Extra materials are affected by Production Efficiency waste, if they also appear in the base materials. But the display code puts all the waste against the base material. If you look at https://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/blueprints/0/17480/50/4/0/5 the numbers should add up to the totals you're needing, but be displayed split up correctly.
It goes deeper than the display code, although that does sound like a good explanation (I'll punch the numbers in a second). If I try to make let's say 2 of them. Then I should need
Isogen [535 x2 + 27491x2] = 56,052
However It says I need
Isogen [3820 + 54982] = 58,802
And if I have 57,000 in the hanger, it won't let me submit the job. I went ahead and told it to make one last night, and it is in fact using the bad data (58,802 in this example). |
Quattro Yazria
Jupiter Fleet
3
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Posted - 2013.09.29 15:30:00 -
[8] - Quote
Sol Garak wrote:Steve Ronuken wrote:It's a bug in the display code. Extra materials are affected by Production Efficiency waste, if they also appear in the base materials. But the display code puts all the waste against the base material. If you look at https://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/blueprints/0/17480/50/4/0/5 the numbers should add up to the totals you're needing, but be displayed split up correctly. It goes deeper than the display code, although that does sound like a good explanation (I'll punch the numbers in a second). If I try to make let's say 2 of them. Then I should need Isogen [535 x2 + 27491x2] = 56,052 However It says I need Isogen [3820 + 54982] = 58,802 And if I have 57,000 in the hanger, it won't let me submit the job. I went ahead and told it to make one last night, and it is in fact using the bad data (58,802 in this example).
And what's your Production Efficiency skill level? |
Sol Garak
Old Dominion Engineering
Official Society of Honor and Trust
0
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 15:51:00 -
[9] - Quote
My production Efficiency is 4.
But even if it were 0 it should still only make it
Isogen [(510x1.25) x2 + 27491x2] = 55,619.5
In order to get to 3820 for 2 it would need to be
(510x3.745)x2 ... I don't understand how the coefficient can be THAT high? Even with tech 2 BPC (That have negative material level), from what I've seen, it's only about 20% or 0.2 waste addition. |
Gerark
2
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Posted - 2013.09.29 17:42:00 -
[10] - Quote
27491*.05+535=1909.55 or 1910, extra materials get hit by that 5% which is what Steve Ronuken was refering to. |
Sol Garak
Old Dominion Engineering
Official Society of Honor and Trust
0
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 17:51:00 -
[11] - Quote
Gerark wrote:27491*.05+535=1909.55 or 1910, extra materials get hit by that 5% which is what Steve Ronuken was refering to.
Ohhhh... alright I get what you're saying. Well thank you guys for clearing it up for me. |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
1921
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 23:06:00 -
[12] - Quote
It doesn't apply in all cases, just those where the material is in both base /and/ extra. There are a few blueprint calculators out there that don't apply it correctly.
Far more of an issue now than it used to be, due to the ship changes adding a bunch of extra materials.
Steve Ronuken for CSM 9!-á I'm starting early :)
Handy tools and an SDE conversion
Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter |
|
ISD Cura Ursus
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
264
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Posted - 2013.10.01 17:22:00 -
[13] - Quote
Nice info, guys and good explanation. I was not aware of this discrepancy.
ISD Cura Ursus
Lieutenant
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department |
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brinelan
The Flying Dead
Insidious Empire
107
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Posted - 2013.10.07 01:04:00 -
[14] - Quote
Sol Garak wrote:I
Isogen: BPC says [You 535 - Perfect 510], but when I go to manufacture it says Isogen required: 1910 Waste: 73.3%.
.
If it says You ### - Perfect ### +1 then you may not have production efficiency at 5. Whats your skill at? This skill directly affects waste that you introduce in to the build job not the bpo in any way. |
Ami Quintero
Royal Trading
Amarr-Caldari Mercantile Exchange
4
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Posted - 2013.10.08 06:48:00 -
[15] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:It doesn't apply in all cases, just those where the material is in both base /and/ extra. There are a few blueprint calculators out there that don't apply it correctly.
Far more of an issue now than it used to be, due to the ship changes adding a bunch of extra materials.
Yeah, it's definitely a bug.
Either it's a bug in the calculation, or it's a bug in the display code on the bill of materials when you "show info" on a BPO. I reported it already because it's a pretty major issue in the new player experience. You have to make a racial frigate (e.g. Burst for Minmatar) in "Making Mountains out of Molehills 10" that's been affected by the extra materials rebalance. Experienced players aren't aware of this bug because nobody does serious manufacturing without PE V, but guys doing the tutorial grab the minerals that the BPC tells them to, fly to the nearest station with free manufacturing slots, then find that they actually don't have enough because the BPC lied to them. |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
1932
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Posted - 2013.10.08 10:33:00 -
[16] - Quote
Ami Quintero wrote:Steve Ronuken wrote:It doesn't apply in all cases, just those where the material is in both base /and/ extra. There are a few blueprint calculators out there that don't apply it correctly.
Far more of an issue now than it used to be, due to the ship changes adding a bunch of extra materials. Yeah, it's definitely a bug. Either it's a bug in the calculation, or it's a bug in the display code on the bill of materials when you "show info" on a BPO. I reported it already because it's a pretty major issue in the new player experience. You have to make a racial frigate (e.g. Burst for Minmatar) in "Making Mountains out of Molehills 10" that's been affected by the extra materials rebalance. Experienced players aren't aware of this bug because nobody does serious manufacturing without PE V, but guys doing the tutorial grab the minerals that the BPC tells them to, fly to the nearest station with free manufacturing slots, then find that they actually don't have enough because the BPC lied to them.
That'd be the reason I bug reported it a fair time back. 
Steve Ronuken for CSM 9!-á I'm starting early :)
Handy tools and an SDE conversion
Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter |
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