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The Spod
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
84
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 19:28:00 -
[1] - Quote
History: 1) Drone regions were generally considered a bad idea as mineral prices tanked. 2) Reprocessing of meta loot had to be nerfed hard as mineral income streams were out of balance.
Today: 3) STATISTICS ARE NEEDED AND SHOULD BE EXAMINED on how big a % of loot is ever looted (I would guess a third of modules are ever looted, at tops). This would cue towards the relevance of next point.
Future: 4) Automatic looting device in L4 rooms and nullsec anoms is looking to print minerals through reprocessing, possibly at a very high amount. |

MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1305
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 19:31:00 -
[2] - Quote
***** too expensive as it is... anything to lower prices is good with me. There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |

ElQuirko
Jester Syndicate S0UTHERN C0MF0RT
2015
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 19:31:00 -
[3] - Quote
Reserved first post for future shiptoasting
EDIT: f***. Save the Domi model! Spacewhales should be preserved. |

Lors Dornick
Kallisti Industries Solar Assault Fleet
675
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 19:32:00 -
[4] - Quote
The Spod wrote:History: 1) Drone regions were generally considered a bad idea as mineral prices tanked. 2) Reprocessing of meta loot had to be nerfed hard as mineral income streams were out of balance.
Erh, wasn't it looting of non meta loot that was nerfed?
CCP Eterne: Silly player, ALL devs are evil. CCP Fozzie: When Veritas describes a programming challenge as "very hard" I tend to believe him.
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Adunh Slavy
1262
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Posted - 2013.09.29 20:49:00 -
[5] - Quote
Auto Looter will reduce mineral prices. Frankly I could care less what happens to mineral prices. What does concern me however is a further reduction in the division of labor.
Why specialize in mining when so many minerals come from rat loot? The incentive to mine is reduced.
Why specialize in manufacturing when there are so many additional meta 1-4s? The incentive is reduced.
Why specialize in salvage when it's now even more so a by-product of some other activity? The incentive is reduced.
The auto looter is not a problem, the fact that rats drop instantly useable loot, that can be immediately fit to a ship, or reprocessed is the problem. The Auto Looter simply exacerbates an issue that already exists.
Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.-á-á- William Pitt |

Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E. Aegis Solaris
2192
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 22:20:00 -
[6] - Quote
I do L4 missions and I mine. I do loot and salvage my missions. I also reprocess the lower end loot items, generally meta 2 and below, at least if their estimated value is below 50K.
The amount of minerals I get from reprocessing loot is tiny compared to what I can pull in with the Hulks. For that, I do not see this new module as a significant threat.
Also, if only a third of the loot is actually looted one ask why. Could it be because its not that valuable? If its not that valuable, then why will adding more of it cause a massive imbalance?
Finally, CCP can always reduce the drop rate if needed. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |

Qolde
Scrambled Eggs Inc.
187
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 22:26:00 -
[7] - Quote
Meta loot can be used by people who mine and build for t2 invention. It's increases success percentage. If the cost drops, then t2 cost will drop slightly. If someone craps in your sandbox: 1. Light it on fire 2. Grab your shovel 3. Throw it back at them. |

stoicfaux
3171
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 22:44:00 -
[8] - Quote
Speculation: CCP wouldn't want to obsolete the Noctis and/or step on Marauders, so Rubicon's Tractor of Loot Leavings (Tr.O.L.L.) will not be as efficient as using a Noctis and/or Marauder. Meaning, the device could be really, really, really slow to work. It could also have Rubicon's deployable mini-structure's drawback of being lootable by anyone.
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Domanique Altares
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
1678
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 23:11:00 -
[9] - Quote
Yes, yes. Let's ***** and complain and doom and gloom about a module that we have yet to receive any specifics about.
Good job, OP. You win the EVE Handwringing Award of the day. Rifterlings pirate corporation is now recruiting pilots for lowsec solo & small gang operations. Visit our website at www.rifterlings.com or join our in game channel weflyrifters to speak to a recruiter. |

Kitty Bear
Disturbed Friends Of Diazepam Disturbed Acquaintance
869
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 00:40:00 -
[10] - Quote
stoicfaux wrote: It could also have Rubicon's deployable mini-structure's drawback of being lootable by anyone.
that would be a sensible aspect to it ...
so it's probably been overlooked   |

Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
3452
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 01:07:00 -
[11] - Quote
An auto loot system?
Odd.
There is always a debate about looting. A lot of players claim that they can blitz missions so fast that they make less ISK while looting because it slows them down.
Nerfing loot didn't help.
Is it really 1/3rd of all loot that gets scooped up? Is that an actual stat?
Whatever the case, if I don't want loot, I pop into the free wrecks channel and give a salvager/noob a break. Why is that so hard.
An auto-salvaging capability makes me think of Mario Brothers. Why not just have little gold coins pop out of the ships while we are at it?
On the other hand, our ships have crews and therefore it's possible to have a crew tractoring and looting wrecks as we dance about the field laying waste to our enemies (and occasional friends -- oops). |

James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
5814
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 01:10:00 -
[12] - Quote
Domanique Altares wrote:Yes, yes. Let's ***** and complain and doom and gloom about a module that we have yet to receive any specifics about.
Good job, OP. You win the EVE Handwringing Award of the day. It wouldn't be GD without handgwringing about vaguely defined future features. My YouTube Videos Latest video: August 25, 2013 |

Azami Nevinyrall
Carbon Circle Tactical Narcotics Team
1279
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 01:19:00 -
[13] - Quote
This means I'll ditch my tractor beams on my Noctis and replace them with Salvagers....Life just got easier! Support my (possibly dumb) Ideas!! Worm Rebalance!!! |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
16712
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 01:23:00 -
[14] - Quote
Azami Nevinyrall wrote:This means I'll ditch my tractor beams on my Noctis and replace them with Salvagers....Life just got easier! GǪassuming the autolooter has the same 96km range rather than just, say, 20km. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |

Felicity Love
Whore and Peace
864
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 01:31:00 -
[15] - Quote
The Spod wrote: Future: 4) Automatic looting device in L4 rooms and nullsec anoms is looking to print minerals through reprocessing, possibly at a very high amount.
... applauds your knee-jerk reaction and laughs because you'll likely be first in line to fill your pockets with the looting.
And I'll be right behind you.

Proud Beta Tester for "Bumping Uglies for Dummies" |

Johan Civire
The Lyran Empire
665
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 01:44:00 -
[16] - Quote
Felicity Love wrote:The Spod wrote: Future: 4) Automatic looting device in L4 rooms and nullsec anoms is looking to print minerals through reprocessing, possibly at a very high amount.
... applauds your knee-jerk reaction and laughs because you'll likely be first in line to fill your pockets with the looting. And I'll be right behind you. 
*where do you think you are going. |

Adunh Slavy
1263
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 02:33:00 -
[17] - Quote
Tippia wrote:GǪassuming the autolooter has the same 96km range rather than just, say, 20km.
That would render it pretty useless. Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.-á-á- William Pitt |

Eggs Ackley
42
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 02:41:00 -
[18] - Quote
It's a Noctis that can't loot or salvage. Ooooh I am scared of the massive change. |

Sh0plifter
Underworld Initiative
16
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 03:13:00 -
[19] - Quote
stoicfaux wrote:Speculation: CCP wouldn't want to obsolete the Noctis and/or step on Marauders, so Rubicon's Tractor of Loot Leavings (Tr.O.L.L.) will not be as efficient as using a Noctis and/or Marauder. Meaning, the device could be really, really, really slow to work. It could also have Rubicon's deployable mini-structure's drawback of being lootable by anyone.
They dont want to make the noctis useless, but to be fair the Marauder was made useless when the noctis was released. They need to replace that bonus on the marauder that can not benefit it.
The Auto-looter will probably have to be anchored but a range of 70-80k. Anything past that will make the noctis useless. CCP would have to backpedal and figure out a way to make that ship useful again like they are having to do with several other ships. *cough*EAF*cough*
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culo duro
The Bootcamp EveryoneVersusEveryone.com.
305
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 08:20:00 -
[20] - Quote
Sh0plifter wrote: They dont want to make the noctis useless, but to be fair the Marauder was made useless when the noctis was released. They need to replace that bonus on the marauder that can not benefit it.
No it isn't, there's people that only own 1 account and salvage on the run... as amazed as you'd be since there's room for a salvager aswell as a tractor beam on marauders.
The Noctis only purpose is to salvage, which the auto looter won't be able to. However if you do love salvaging that much i'd recommend not using the auto looter. I thought you bastards wanted to make stuff easier. I can honestly see the potential for it, as it'll buff the empty high slots on mission ships.
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Samillian
Angry Mustellid
319
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 08:57:00 -
[21] - Quote
I know this goes against everything that GD stands for but for once I'd like to see the stats before people engaged headless chicken mode and started aimlessly running in circles. NBSI shall be the whole of the Law |

Icarus Able
Traverse Holdings
112
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 09:29:00 -
[22] - Quote
Adunh Slavy wrote:Auto Looter will reduce mineral prices. Frankly I could care less what happens to mineral prices. What does concern me however is a further reduction in the division of labor.
Why specialize in mining when so many minerals come from rat loot? The incentive to mine is reduced.
Why specialize in manufacturing when there are so many additional meta 1-4s? The incentive is reduced.
Why specialize in salvage when it's now even more so a by-product of some other activity? The incentive is reduced.
The auto looter is not a problem, the fact that rats drop instantly useable loot, that can be immediately fit to a ship, or reprocessed is the problem. The Auto Looter simply exacerbates an issue that already exists.
Um Salvaging is without question a direct by-product of another activity. It cannot exist without it. THe incentive to mine isnt reduced as noone is in it for the amount of isk, they are in it for the risk free(mostly) easy isk. You specilize in manufacturing because Ships+T2 modules. |

Liafcipe9000
Frankenmouse Inc Frankenmouse
10709
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 10:23:00 -
[23] - Quote
on the contrary, the autolooter will bring back gun mining. You may gain the knowledge, but you will lose your belief, with all its mystery and comfort. If there was proof, absolute and certain, there is an afterlife, why not quit this life, and be done with it? Ponder about these things all your life, and you're a philosopher. Compress these ponderings into a couple of pages, and you'll go mad. |

Mocam
EVE University Ivy League
305
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 11:28:00 -
[24] - Quote
I don't know all the limits on this new toy that'll be coming out but one funny question does come up - will it work for player wrecks?
That could prove rather entertaining and interesting at big-battle sites as some run in and toss these down to try and get player fittings and the like. |

Silvetica Dian
Manson Family
112
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 13:00:00 -
[25] - Quote
stoicfaux wrote:Speculation: CCP wouldn't want to obsolete the Noctis and/or step on Marauders, so Rubicon's Tractor of Loot Leavings (Tr.O.L.L.) will not be as efficient as using a Noctis and/or Marauder. Meaning, the device could be really, really, really slow to work. It could also have Rubicon's deployable mini-structure's drawback of being lootable by anyone.
this idea should be an OP before CCP finalise the module. buff ninja looting /salvaging N.B. i have only ever been a victim of these fin people and never actually tried it myself but i support their work nonetheless. |

Kitty Bear
Disturbed Friends Of Diazepam Disturbed Acquaintance
869
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 13:04:00 -
[26] - Quote
Samillian wrote:I know this goes against everything that GD stands for but for once I'd like to see the stats before people engaged headless chicken mode and started aimlessly running in circles.
never going to happen
it's the same with logical, civilised debate and discussion you go to other forums for it. |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
16719
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 14:16:00 -
[27] - Quote
Adunh Slavy wrote:Tippia wrote:GǪassuming the autolooter has the same 96km range rather than just, say, 20km. That would render it pretty useless. It would be as useless as having a tractor beam in a highslotGǪ except it doesn't take up a highslot. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |

Orakkus
Wraithguard. Dirt Nap Squad.
189
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 15:26:00 -
[28] - Quote
The Spod wrote:History: 1) Drone regions were generally considered a bad idea as mineral prices tanked. 2) Reprocessing of meta loot had to be nerfed hard as mineral income streams were out of balance.
Today: 3) STATISTICS ARE NEEDED AND SHOULD BE EXAMINED on how big a % of loot is ever looted (I would guess a third of modules are ever looted, at tops). This would cue towards the relevance of next point.
Future: 4) Automatic looting device in L4 rooms and nullsec anoms is looking to print minerals through reprocessing, possibly at a very high amount.
I don't think this is very likely for multiple reasons:
1. While we know it will be deployable, we don't know what it will be deployable by. I.e. is it small enough to be launched from the cargo hold of a battleship or battlecruiser? If not, then this module probably won't be as useful as a Noctis to the solo player.
2. How "big" does it get? How much loot does it hold? Likely you'll have to pick it up with either an industrial or some other high capacity ship.. which then means another time and isk wasting trip.
3. From the sounds of it, the module does not salvage (I could be wrong), so while it will drag loot closer and make it easier, you'll still need to have a ship with a salvage module.
All in all, I think it will be a nice addition to group mission runners as well as the more novice Level 3/Level 4 mission runner, or possibily even belt ratters, but outside of that I don't see where it will effect the minerals market in any significant way. He's not just famous, he's "IN" famous. - Ned Nederlander
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Murk Paradox
Duty. The Cursed Few
538
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 15:49:00 -
[29] - Quote
Mocam wrote:I don't know all the limits on this new toy that'll be coming out but one funny question does come up - will it work for player wrecks?
That could prove rather entertaining and interesting at big-battle sites as some run in and toss these down to try and get player fittings and the like.
I'm already designing super tank sentry drone Prophecy to bait with the new Hoover Module.
Ninja looting ftw.
The real question, would be if it works with yellow player wrecks. Docking games will be a lot more exciting.
For the big fights, how fun is it going to be to move warp-in points around by dragging wrecks? LOL This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate. |

Murk Paradox
Duty. The Cursed Few
538
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 15:52:00 -
[30] - Quote
Orakkus wrote:The Spod wrote:History: 1) Drone regions were generally considered a bad idea as mineral prices tanked. 2) Reprocessing of meta loot had to be nerfed hard as mineral income streams were out of balance.
Today: 3) STATISTICS ARE NEEDED AND SHOULD BE EXAMINED on how big a % of loot is ever looted (I would guess a third of modules are ever looted, at tops). This would cue towards the relevance of next point.
Future: 4) Automatic looting device in L4 rooms and nullsec anoms is looking to print minerals through reprocessing, possibly at a very high amount. I don't think this is very likely for multiple reasons: 1. While we know it will be deployable, we don't know what it will be deployable by. I.e. is it small enough to be launched from the cargo hold of a battleship or battlecruiser? If not, then this module probably won't be as useful as a Noctis to the solo player. 2. How "big" does it get? How much loot does it hold? Likely you'll have to pick it up with either an industrial or some other high capacity ship.. which then means another time and isk wasting trip. 3. From the sounds of it, the module does not salvage (I could be wrong), so while it will drag loot closer and make it easier, you'll still need to have a ship with a salvage module. All in all, I think it will be a nice addition to group mission runners as well as the more novice Level 3/Level 4 mission runner, or possibily even belt ratters, but outside of that I don't see where it will effect the minerals market in any significant way.
The way I see it as a benefit, is to remove tractor beams from a dedicated salvager, even at the cost of having multiple Hoovers in place on a field.
A Noctis can still, with expanded cargoholds, get a 2900+ m3 bay. That's a crapton of mission loot. This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate. |
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