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The CSM Has Run Its Course

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Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 11917	Posted - 2013.10.01 12:14:00 - [1] - Quote Well you heard the man. We can't make everything perfect every time, therefore nothing we do has any point. Seriously, there's only one question that he needs to ask, but sadly it's not really dramatic enough for Poe's standards: Is EVE better with the CSM or without it. 1 Kings 12:11
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 11934	Posted - 2013.10.01 21:51:00 - [2] - Quote Bagehi wrote: I was under the impression the CSM is a sounding board for portions of CCP. I'm under the impression many CSM have the goal of "don't let bad things happen to Eve" more than trying to push CCP to do new things they want. That's just my impression. A little from column A, a little from column B There are other benefits to being on the CSM. For instance - and here I pick an example that actually happened - let's say $NEW_FEATURE is being discussed. It has been a somewhat contentious issue in the past, and CCP aren't even sure if they should mention it. I as a CSM get to point out a possible benefit from a trivial addition to the feature for a minority demographic for whom the feature is an absolute game-maker, and phrase it such that CCP can (if they wish) include this perspective as a positive reason to do the feature. CCP get to introduce the feature, I get the happy feeling of helping a much disregarded minority, the minority in question get to feel a jillion times better about the game. Also, being in frequent contact with CCP devs, you do get to, over time, present a perspective on issues that has influence. It's hard to quantify with hard metrics but it's there. 1 Kings 12:11
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 11943	Posted - 2013.10.03 11:07:00 - [3] - Quote Callduron wrote: Looks like Poetic Stanziel has sold his toon to Dinsdale Piranha RMT? 1 Kings 12:11
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 11944	Posted - 2013.10.03 13:33:00 - [4] - Quote No, he was making a joke, see? because Dinsdale is obsessed with "nullsec cartel RMT lords". 1 Kings 12:11
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 11947	Posted - 2013.10.04 08:29:00 - [5] - Quote Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote: Malcanis wrote: Well you heard the man. We can't make everything perfect every time, therefore nothing we do has any point. Seriously, there's only one question that he needs to ask, but sadly it's not really dramatic enough for Poe's standards: Is EVE better with the CSM or without it. That question sounds like, "Are you better one-eyed or totally blind?" If the Hallelujah Plan is a proof of what the CSM can achieve in terms of CCP "getting it", then the CSM could easily be scrapped and neither us nor CCP would notice. It's hugely better to be one eyed than blind. The CSM have a damb difficult job to do, and on the whole, they do it pretty well; but the cards we are dealt are the ones we can play. Every CSM has - to extend the metaphor - arranged for the succeeding CSM to be dealt a few more, slightly better cards, and every year, the new CSM plays for higher stakes than the last. CSM8 has no intention of being the first CSM to break that trend. Indeed, I feel fairly confident that we will if anything accelerate it. Nevertheless, the CSM operate within limits that you are either too stubborn to admit you are aware of, or simply too immature to admit they exist. Whichever it is, your sullen petulance that CCP has decided not to prioritise one aspect of the game that you personally are interested in is by no means a basis for objectively evaluating the CSM. You're a spoiled child whining that Santa didn't bring her a pony so therefore you hate christmas and no one else should get a present. Get over yourself and grow up, and stop insulting people who are working hard to get the best result for you that they can. 1 Kings 12:11
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 11947	Posted - 2013.10.04 08:36:00 - [6] - Quote And for God's sake, play the game as it is, not as you hope it may one day be. You will be happier that way. And quieter. So we'll be happier too. 1 Kings 12:11
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 11951	Posted - 2013.10.04 12:09:00 - [7] - Quote Good lord, that's a lot of words to express a couple of very simple concepts. Were you being paid by the line to write that? But then, speaking plainly and blunty is "unconstructive" in your lexicon, isn't it? 1 Kings 12:11
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 11963	Posted - 2013.10.04 21:35:00 - [8] - Quote We can't force people to care. But they fact that they don't doesn't mean I shouldn't either. 1 Kings 12:11
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 11967	Posted - 2013.10.04 22:55:00 - [9] - Quote Disclosure: I have a disgusting phlegmy throat infection, which has put me in a foul mood, and the antibiotics mean I can't get a few drinks down on a Friday night, which means that I'd cheerfully shoot kittens at the moon if I could only get a kitten launcher and also some kittens. A few running themes in these "grrr CSM" discussion really become intensely tedious after a while. One of the most common is the type who I will call - in order to frame the issue objectively - The Ignorant Lazy Entitled Whiner. You'll see a lot of posts by the TILEW crew, and they basically run along the following lines TILEW wrote: (1) No way in hell will I ever for an instant look beyond my own immediate narrow self interest (2) And I refuse even more adamantly to inform myself about the issue that I'm going to whine about, so any attempt to discuss them with me means that you will have to bear the additional burden of dealing with someone who doesn't even understand what his own self-interest even is. (3) I deeply and sullenly resent people who have something I don't, and that especially includes people who I percieve to have special information and power. Like the CSM. (4) Since I would immediately abuse that information and influence as per ((1), it is inconceivable that the CSM members aren't all doing this all the time. I am not interested in facts here. I just know this. (5) It's equally inconceivable that they are in any way intelligent, educated or competent. They aren't giving me what I want right now, therefore they're useless at best, actively malignant at worst. Anything I want should be ready by Next Business Day, and every failure to deliver this only underlines the incompetence and malice of the CSM. (6) Whilst I won't bother to learn anything or even vote, I will sure as hell put in considerable time and effort to making a huge fuss when I don't get all my wishes NBD. I have no - zero - nada - minus infinity - interest in encouraging or even forcing these people to vote. I do not view it as any kind of failure of the CSM, CCP or democracy that they are "not represented". To the contrary. 1 Kings 12:11
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 11970	Posted - 2013.10.05 12:28:00 - [10] - Quote Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote: So, when i look at the CSM as the fruit of what being vocal, organized and devoted achieves, i wonder wether the CSM serves CCP by being beyond the reach of a large population who, albeit it's not comitted, nor vocal, nor organized, surely pays a lot of those precious monies CCP likes to get. See this is exactly the attitude that infuriates me. "Why should these guys who put all the effort and talent into getting their voices heard be the ones who get their voices heard. Surely people who don't give a **** and can't even explain their ideas should get equal time. What about the idle dullard?" Well what about him? If someone can't take the 5 minutes (it used to be 1 minute, but now STV) required once per damb year to vote, why should anyone spend more effort than that concerning themselves with their particular requirements? 1 Kings 12:11
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 11973	Posted - 2013.10.05 16:04:00 - [11] - Quote Trebor Daehdoow wrote: Malcanis wrote: Well what about him? If someone can't take the 5 minutes (it used to be 1 minute, but now STV) required once per damb year to vote, why should anyone spend more effort than that concerning themselves with their particular requirements? Actually, I don't completely agree here. Once elected, CSMs do have a responsibility to represent the interests of the entire community, even those too apathetic to vote. Of course, since they are so apathetic, they never bother to let us know what their concerns are -- and as the saying goes, "the squeaky pod gets the goo" Yeah that's the thing though. They won't spend 5 minutes voting, or an hour informing themselves, or ten seconds listening, but they sure are ready to spend any amount of their time on complaining. 1 Kings 12:11
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 11974	Posted - 2013.10.06 06:34:00 - [12] - Quote Trebor Daehdoow wrote: Malcanis wrote: Yeah that's the thing though. They won't spend 5 minutes voting, or an hour informing themselves, or ten seconds listening, but they sure are ready to spend any amount of their time on complaining. Welcome to life as a Representative of the People. What, you thought I schemed to get you on CSM because I liked you? Silly Malcanis! No, I've long since abandoned that illusion. 1 Kings 12:11
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 12060	Posted - 2013.10.09 06:48:00 - [13] - Quote Vera Algaert wrote: Even during the Incarna outrage the CSM happily played along with CCP's attempts at damage control and that really tells us all there is to it - all your power derives from your role in EVE and thus from CCP and at the end of the day that is where your loyalties are. Yes that's absolutely what happened 1 Kings 12:11
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 12063	Posted - 2013.10.09 21:57:00 - [14] - Quote Since you're uninterested in facts and unencumbered by experience, you can tell yourself whatever story you like, and even believe it. How restful. I envy you. 1 Kings 12:11
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 12080	Posted - 2013.10.14 09:06:00 - [15] - Quote Dracvlad wrote: Princess Bride wrote: Malcanis, people have said you are a rational person. As a rational person, how does your sarcasm and attitude help the situation or you? Now that I have stopped laughing at Red Templer, Malcanis is perfectly rational, he posts on pushing the 0.0 agenda, simple as, which is of course to force people out of hisec! 1 Kings 12:11
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 12080	Posted - 2013.10.14 09:15:00 - [16] - Quote Princess Bride wrote: Malcanis, people have said you are a rational person. As a rational person, how does your sarcasm and attitude help the situation or you? Red Templar pretty much nailed it. There's no point arguing with people who fling "when did you start beating your wife" style accusational questions, because their confirmation bias is so strong that anything ones says or does is simply taken as further 'proof' that one is GUILTY!!!!!. In which case, why worry about it? One might as well please oneself. Like the person to whom I made the reply above, who probably really does believe that I want to "drive people out of hi-sec". He has a 'picture' of who Malcanis is in his mind, and he will simply ignore anything that contradicts it, or, because he knows that I want to drive people out of hi-sec, if there is evidence that he can't simply handwave away, then he will claim it's deliberately falsified or else quote-mine some sentence fragment to "prove" that I want the exact opposite of what I have gone on public record to say I want (and even based my election campaign on). With such people, there's no point being respectful or sincere or constructive; I don't respect them, I have nothing to say to them, and there's nothing there to build on. So I entertain myself with them instead. Why shouldn't I? 1 Kings 12:11
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 12081	Posted - 2013.10.14 11:06:00 - [17] - Quote Frying Doom wrote: I am not sure how "White Knighting" for CCP fits into the greatest good for the greater player base. Have you considered the possibility that in your haste to drive the "CSM are shills" narrative that you've already forgotten numerous occasions where the CSM as a group and myself in particular have been sharply critical of CCP? For instance the TOS change affair, to name the most recent one of significance. Or is it merely that you are simply being your normal dishonest, rabble-rousing, Confirmation-biased Dunning-Kruger Poster Child self? 1 Kings 12:11

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