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Infinity Ziona
Hot Drop Buns
472
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Posted - 2013.10.05 21:46:00 -
[1] - Quote
They would not be overpowered with a covert ops cloak.
Let's take my Proteus vs my Widow:
Proteus:
Sig of a cruiser
Speed of a cruiser
Lock of a cruiser
100k EHP
Cov Ops
Nullifier
Very long point.
700 dps cold
6 sec align
Widow
Sig of a BS
Speed of a BS
Terrible lock time
33k EHP (ECM fit)
Covert Ops (one assumes then they would have the uncloak delay 4.5secs min)
No Nullifier
1000 DPS (however we're talking rage torps and no painters)
9 sec align time
We have to assume in comparisons we're talking solo because if not then the variability of other ships makes any comparison pointless. If you're talking Blops gangs then it doesn't matter if it can warp cloaked because its friends can, it just turns up last or doesn't even jump through.
My main point is that T3s are already superior to a solo blops and they're not overpowered. You likely wont escape alive if you're ratting mining and get jumped by a cloaky T3 but you have a better chance of gtfo from a covert blops if one existed. |
Infinity Ziona
Hot Drop Buns
475
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Posted - 2013.10.07 02:00:00 -
[2] - Quote
Mister Tuggles wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:They would not be overpowered with a covert ops cloak.
Let's take my Proteus vs my Widow:
Proteus:
Sig of a cruiser
Speed of a cruiser
Lock of a cruiser
100k EHP
Cov Ops
Nullifier
Very long point.
700 dps cold
6 sec align
Widow
Sig of a BS
Speed of a BS
Terrible lock time
33k EHP (ECM fit)
Covert Ops (one assumes then they would have the uncloak delay 4.5secs min)
No Nullifier
1000 DPS (however we're talking rage torps and no painters)
9 sec align time
We have to assume in comparisons we're talking solo because if not then the variability of other ships makes any comparison pointless. If you're talking Blops gangs then it doesn't matter if it can warp cloaked because its friends can, it just turns up last or doesn't even jump through.
My main point is that T3s are already superior to a solo blops and they're not overpowered. You likely wont escape alive if you're ratting mining and get jumped by a cloaky T3 but you have a better chance of gtfo from a covert blops if one existed. I think the thing people are arguing is that Blops are just to be used as bridge devices. IMO that is a **** poor excuse for why they don't get cov-ops cloak. Nullbear tears would accumulate if you could interrupt their plex farming bots with a solo blop.
Yes it really doesn't make sense does it. Ships should have multiple roles. CCP has indicated they want them to have multiple roles and that has led to the tiericides.
I haven't read a logical argument from anyone who have said "they would be overpowered with covert cloak" as to WHY they would be overpowered. The whole idea of a covert ops fleet (with insta uncloak locking and scan res that a bomber gets) and a black ops suddenly appearing in local on top of you seems extremely more overpowered than a solo black ops.
One could argue that fleets of black ops might form and wtfpwn everyone with OP covert cloaking but as already mentioned fleets of covert bombers and covert T3s are much more mobile, faster locking, have more dps, damage application and EHP either through sig tanking or huge buffer tanks.
The argument against BLOPS covert cloaking is absurd and I believe stems from a desire to keep the ship solely to their own play style and an unfounded fear that it would lead to less safety for the same people when they're not protected in fleet and instead care-bearing in their null systems. |
Infinity Ziona
Hot Drop Buns
482
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Posted - 2013.10.07 08:14:00 -
[3] - Quote
Mocam wrote:Julius Priscus wrote:Alex Logan wrote:1) give them enough fuel bay space to hold enough isotopes to jump a small covert fleet or travel without the fuel hassle. a jump fuel bay yes... Alex Logan wrote:2) enable the possibility of fitting covops cloaks but leave the regular bonus to speed under cloak. covert ops cloak yes... speed mod while cloaked no.. just make them like the other stealth ships... recons etc. Alex Logan wrote:You can remove some of the weapon bonuses if you feel they would become overpowered. Black ops should be very focused towards mobility, the JB and _some_ EW. They don't fight more than a NOC would with his sidearm (reduced damage and range), nevermind the uber bond movies. imo they should be like bs versions of the recons. Fuel bay I can definately see. The covert cloak I'm not as sure about anymore. Reason: The "need to keep up with the crew..." in system... Isn't rubicon changing how ships warp so smaller/faster warp/land faster? That means even current mixed covert gangs, that come in at range, are liable to have issues staying formed up. If it's radical enough - the cloak can go but that fuel bay... That's a big issue. Dragging along a blockade runner for fueling. Ouch. If people do insist on covert cloaks I'd say also remove the instant lock when it comes off. Make them work more like recon's than bombers - AND- remove that speed bonus.
If they did get covert cloak I'd say it would be reasonable to add the usual 5 sec delay minimum since they wouldn't have the scan res penalty of a regular cloak anymore.
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Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
488
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Posted - 2013.10.10 03:51:00 -
[4] - Quote
Froggy Storm wrote:
However, it is my thinking that most of these threads don't really want a useful blops. They want that cloak bs that no one can catch or stop that can move with complete impunity to any system, then run down a battleship while they stay cloaked, uncloak and instant scram said target, and finally destroy them before anyone can react. To which, I and presumably others are opposed. The new SoE cruiser is going to completely change the blops gang meta as is. Add this solo cloaky easy mode killer and I worry at the ramifications.
For killing battleships we can already do this better in a T3. You can do it in a 30 mill bomber if you're careful.
For me its more about survivability than gank. I like solo hunting. I hate cruisers and love battleships but solo battleships in null are problematic to say the least - 1 500k frig at a gate and you're toasted.
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