| Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |

Alex Logan
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
8
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 20:40:00 -
[1] - Quote
1) give them enough fuel bay space to hold enough isotopes to jump a small covert fleet or travel without the fuel hassle.
2) enable the possibility of fitting covops cloaks but leave the regular bonus to speed under cloak.
You can remove some of the weapon bonuses if you feel they would become overpowered. Black ops should be very focused towards mobility, the JB and _some_ EW. They don't fight more than a NOC would with his sidearm (reduced damage and range), nevermind the uber bond movies. |

Liam Inkuras
Chaotic Tranquility Casoff
458
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 20:56:00 -
[2] - Quote
1) Maybe
2) No
Your suggestions won't fix BLOPS, only make them so good that they'll become overpowered. I wear my goggles at night.
Any spelling/grammatical errors come complimentary with my typing on a phone |

Alex Logan
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
8
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 21:14:00 -
[3] - Quote
Liam Inkuras wrote:1) Maybe
2) No
Your suggestions won't fix BLOPS, only make them so good that they'll become overpowered.
Overpowered?
- they suck at dps, and if you try putting on a real pvp fit they become something like a noobfit T1 BS except the wtf price tag - cant fit them for guerilla tactics either, other ship classes are much better and cheaper at that. People will be like, lmfaonub wtf was he trying to do? At your killmail. - you cant solo with a BO. Adding an alt still won't do, you need at least 2, good luck multiboxing with 3 toons worth over 1.5 billion smackaroos. - carebears may go mental over this but ultimately its not the bridging ship that kills them but the omgwtf popping out of the hole, and when that sort of gank hits the shiny paladin with t1 fit it don't matter if the blop ship had a covop cloak or not.
Fuel bay limits their usefullness in a small fleet where nobody can/wants to be the fuel mule. Ok maybe cyno cloaky hauler will do but most folks dont train that box of cabbage anyway, besides who goes out on a recon job with an indy anyway.
Lack of covops cloak makes blops pilots unable to travel freely. Its supposed to be the instrumental component of a stealth, agile fleet yet it fails to keep up bcos it cant warp under cloak. Makes me think of my grandpa's 60 yo volkswagen thats worth a fortune nowadays yet cant move cos it has no wheels
Just my 2c, sorry if i missed anything.
|

Antillie Sa'Kan
Forging Industries Silent Infinity
83
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 22:20:00 -
[4] - Quote
Battle Crane? MWD, three slots of ewar, cloaky, and 9406m3 of fuel and bombs? |

Quontor Zarrkos
Pwn 'N Play Nulli Secunda
20
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 22:23:00 -
[5] - Quote
Yes they suck at dps and tank and everything, but they have a jump drive. They're not supposed to be better than T1 battleships because they never engage in real pvp, they only drop on fights they can win for sure and jump out afterwards. That's what makes them special. Though for that same reason I agree with you on them needing a real fuel bay. Having to bridge around a covert hauler with you is ridiculous, just give them 10km-¦ fuel bay already. Also, you don't have to be able to solo with every ship, eve is still an online game, if you want to do blops drops, then maybe start or join a group that likes to do the same thing? |

Onictus
Silver Snake Enterprise Fatal Ascension
527
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 22:26:00 -
[6] - Quote
Antillie Sa'Kan wrote:Battle Crane? MWD, three slots of ewar, cloaky, and 9406m3 of fuel and bombs?
Yeah, or three.
Takes a LOT of gas to move 15 bombers, 5 recons and a couple battleships, and blops jump range is notoriously low. There are a few regional jump they can't make at all, Querious and Catch comes to mind, Cloud Ring and Fountain are one that is close, you can only get from B-BD to J5A- then you have to jump again.
.....not to mention that you don't usually drop your fuel truck, the idea being that it is alive to have enough gas to get you home, gating it with a black ops fleet isn't exactly fun. |

IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
216
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 22:40:00 -
[7] - Quote
Umm no... They're already flying around nullsec immune to gate camps and cyno jammers. Why don't we just give them fighters and rename them covert ops carriers... |

Xequecal
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
77
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 23:01:00 -
[8] - Quote
Alex Logan wrote:- they suck at dps, and if you try putting on a real pvp fit they become something like a noobfit T1 BS except the wtf price tag
Here's an idea, how about you compare their DPS to the DPS of other ships that fit covops cloaks. It doesn't look so bad now does it? |

Froggy Storm
Paxton Industries Gentlemen's Agreement
103
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 23:18:00 -
[9] - Quote
Having done and seen the power of a coordinated black ops campaign through the fountain/ delve grinds, I think people can safely say that the power of having a couple blops around is self evident.
There is valid room for discussion over the size of the fuel bay/jump range. Perhaps some specialized mid or low Slot mods could address those factors? (Like those for the scanning game)
But boosting the gank power has been suggested (read begged for) over and over. There just isn't any reason for it. Decrying the cost for the ship as a reason to make it a combat ship just doesn't work. T2 ships are by definition specialized in some way. I can't think of anything more specialized than bridging around cyno jammers.
Never fear the new rubi interceptor warp speed will make catching those nul bears infinitely easier without any other help. Bomb shelling systems is about to become very interesting. |

Donbe Scurred
University of Caille Gallente Federation
299
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 23:31:00 -
[10] - Quote
Froggy Storm wrote: There is valid room for discussion over the size of the fuel bay/jump range. Perhaps some specialized mid or low Slot mods could address those factors? (Like those for the scanning game)
+1
Combined with the new mobile stations for refitting (assuming they fit in a BR) it should be an elegant solution. |

Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
879
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 00:14:00 -
[11] - Quote
With the new cyno jammers coming up blops will be used for PI. Dust collection to be precise. Eve is Real |

Mathias Orsen
Sacred Templars Fatal Ascension
20
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 01:32:00 -
[12] - Quote
Nothing broke about any of the Blops I fly. Perhaps the Widow is the exception because missiles suck. When use as a Black-ops ship in pvp, they are the most threatening ships. Even better for running DED complexes in null sec.
Those who fly black ops love them Those who don't hate them.
You can usually tell who is who when one of them starts talking about how the ship needs buffed. |

Damian Gene
Bloodtear Industries Gentlemen's Agreement
37
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 19:57:00 -
[13] - Quote
Mathias Orsen wrote:Nothing broke about any of the Blops I fly. Perhaps the Widow is the exception because missiles suck. When use as a Black-ops ship in pvp, they are the most threatening ships. Even better for running DED complexes in null sec.
Those who fly black ops love them Those who don't hate them.
You can usually tell who is who when one of them starts talking about how the ship needs buffed.
Which one(s) do you fly? I have a widow, which, ya.. I use as transport. But I have all the BS's cross trained, though honestly havent even thought of using them for DED Complexes. What complexes can you solo in them? |

Ginger Barbarella
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1506
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 21:10:00 -
[14] - Quote
IIshira wrote:...immune to gate camps and cyno jammers... Why don't we just give them fighters and rename them covert ops carriers...
Ooooh.... *drooling commences* "Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac |

IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
217
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 21:20:00 -
[15] - Quote
Ginger Barbarella wrote:IIshira wrote:...immune to gate camps and cyno jammers... Why don't we just give them fighters and rename them covert ops carriers... Ooooh.... *drooling commences*
I was trying to funny but that would be awesome. If only ever so slightly OP  |

Mathias Orsen
Sacred Templars Fatal Ascension
21
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 23:13:00 -
[16] - Quote
Damian Gene wrote:Mathias Orsen wrote:Nothing broke about any of the Blops I fly. Perhaps the Widow is the exception because missiles suck. When use as a Black-ops ship in pvp, they are the most threatening ships. Even better for running DED complexes in null sec.
Those who fly black ops love them Those who don't hate them.
You can usually tell who is who when one of them starts talking about how the ship needs buffed. Which one(s) do you fly? I have a widow, which, ya.. I use as transport. But I have all the BS's cross trained, though honestly havent even thought of using them for DED Complexes. What complexes can you solo in them?
Originally bought a widow for plexes because it has a whole lot of tank and can work at long range with a micro jump drive. The DPS was garbage though. Now I use a Panther. It's not a mach but it don't have to use gates either. While I always run DEDs with a friend, I'd say it can solo anything that any t1 BS can solo.
With 3 Domination Gyros and faction ammo, I get 787 DPS from the guns. I use Ogres on stations to bring the DPS to 1100. That is also with a set of hardwires for gunnery. As far as the tank goes.... Well be both know that t2 isn't gonna cut it. You have 4 mid slots to try to fit a tank in as well as needing to come up with Cap to keep the tank running. It's not got the shooting range of the mach so you also need Cap to burn the MWD a lot.
To put it simply, The Widow is the most easy Blops to fit for Plexing. The DPS will make you cry though. Sins are the best option if you are doing them in packs (3-5). The Panther for Plexing just means you are desperate to use a combo of covert cynos and Autocannons. |

Eggs Ackley
49
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 23:40:00 -
[17] - Quote
Xequecal wrote:Alex Logan wrote:- they suck at dps, and if you try putting on a real pvp fit they become something like a noobfit T1 BS except the wtf price tag Here's an idea, how about you compare their DPS to the DPS of other ships that fit covops cloaks. It doesn't look so bad now does it?
They can fit covops cloaks now? Cool! |

IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
217
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 17:13:00 -
[18] - Quote
They do their intended job very well. A Recon can engage the target, cyno in a fleet of 5-10 to kill the target and all jump out before a response fleet can be formed. |

Red Teufel
Mafia Redux Phobia.
226
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 17:53:00 -
[19] - Quote
Black op battleships are good enough since you can choose how to use them. i would like a mini doomsday though |

Alex Logan
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
9
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 20:01:00 -
[20] - Quote
I can top some 700-800 DPS on average from all 4 races, perhaps more with faction guns, rigs, skill hardwiring. Can even get a decent tank going. But that's not the point, there are other ship classes for that, wouldn't bring a 700 mil ship to do something I can do easy with a maelstrom or abaddon.
Black ops is something else and by the fact that they can't carry enough fuel, they're limited in fulfilling their role. Like having a 6 liter V8 and room for only half a gallon of gas. Just saying... we shouldn't have to tow an additional fuel tank.
As for the covop cloak thing. Yes the current bonus to speed and agility means they can insta warp once decloaked but I don't see how a blop can escape a decent camp, a hic or mobile bubble should prevent them from warping and a ceptor (with or without drones) can decloak it much before it has a chance of crawling out of the bubble. I had my share of 00 some time ago and never seen or went on a camp without an inty and/or hic.
Covop recons do crap damage, T3s with covop subsystem - about the same. Blops - same - but they lack the cloak so they pretty much suck at doing their job because of that.
Also the sin should give the sin, panther and redeemer some corresponding ew bonuses like the widow has. They still won't be overpowered even with 150M SP in combat in the pilot seat. |

Mathias Orsen
Sacred Templars Fatal Ascension
23
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 22:29:00 -
[21] - Quote
Alex Logan wrote:I can top some 700-800 DPS on average from all 4 races, perhaps more with faction guns, rigs, skill hardwiring. Can even get a decent tank going. But that's not the point, there are other ship classes for that, wouldn't bring a 700 mil ship to do something I can do easy with a maelstrom or abaddon.
Black ops is something else and by the fact that they can't carry enough fuel, they're limited in fulfilling their role. Like having a 6 liter V8 and room for only half a gallon of gas. Just saying... we shouldn't have to tow an additional fuel tank.
As for the covop cloak thing. Yes the current bonus to speed and agility means they can insta warp once decloaked but I don't see how a blop can escape a decent camp, a hic or mobile bubble should prevent them from warping and a ceptor (with or without drones) can decloak it much before it has a chance of crawling out of the bubble. I had my share of 00 some time ago and never seen or went on a camp without an inty and/or hic.
Covop recons do crap damage, T3s with covop subsystem - about the same. Blops - same - but they lack the cloak so they pretty much suck at doing their job because of that.
Also the sin should give the sin, panther and redeemer some corresponding ew bonuses like the widow has. They still won't be overpowered even with 150M SP in combat in the pilot seat.
There is a whole lot more to Black Ops than what you are seeing in your EFT. First and Foremost, they can cyno right past your fore mentioned gate camp. Going from point "A" to "C" and skipping point "B" all together. Something that a maelstrom or abaddon cannot do. |

Onictus
Silver Snake Enterprise Fatal Ascension
530
|
Posted - 2013.10.04 07:20:00 -
[22] - Quote
Mathias Orsen wrote:Alex Logan wrote:I can top some 700-800 DPS on average from all 4 races, perhaps more with faction guns, rigs, skill hardwiring. Can even get a decent tank going. But that's not the point, there are other ship classes for that, wouldn't bring a 700 mil ship to do something I can do easy with a maelstrom or abaddon.
Black ops is something else and by the fact that they can't carry enough fuel, they're limited in fulfilling their role. Like having a 6 liter V8 and room for only half a gallon of gas. Just saying... we shouldn't have to tow an additional fuel tank.
As for the covop cloak thing. Yes the current bonus to speed and agility means they can insta warp once decloaked but I don't see how a blop can escape a decent camp, a hic or mobile bubble should prevent them from warping and a ceptor (with or without drones) can decloak it much before it has a chance of crawling out of the bubble. I had my share of 00 some time ago and never seen or went on a camp without an inty and/or hic.
Covop recons do crap damage, T3s with covop subsystem - about the same. Blops - same - but they lack the cloak so they pretty much suck at doing their job because of that.
Also the sin should give the sin, panther and redeemer some corresponding ew bonuses like the widow has. They still won't be overpowered even with 150M SP in combat in the pilot seat. There is a whole lot more to Black Ops than what you are seeing in your EFT. First and Foremost, they can cyno right past your fore mentioned gate camp. Going from point "A" to "C" and skipping point "B" all together. Something that a maelstrom or abaddon cannot do.
Issue being God help something can shoot back at them.
|

Onictus
Silver Snake Enterprise Fatal Ascension
530
|
Posted - 2013.10.04 07:22:00 -
[23] - Quote
Cipher Jones wrote:With the new cyno jammers coming up blops will be used for PI. Dust collection to be precise.
Convert cynos and jump portals work through jammers. |

Janeway84
Masters Of Destiny Pride Before Fall
36
|
Posted - 2013.10.04 12:38:00 -
[24] - Quote
Mak them be able to fit cov op cloak 
Or maybe thats for another class of T2 battleship to be able to do  |

Froggy Storm
Paxton Industries Gentlemen's Agreement
106
|
Posted - 2013.10.05 04:29:00 -
[25] - Quote
The new SoE super covop cruiser is also going to make that bridging a much larger power projection asset. Add the mobile jammers so titan drops and supers can't be as mobile. Now you have a case where the blop drop is far away more flexible than your titan.
Given the proven strength of siege fleet. Now add a real combat cruiser that allows T3s and recons back into support roles. And all you need is a covop logi to make blops an amazing tool for small units to project real power. Titans need not apply.
No more point in making the blops a solo power house than there is for the titan and for similar reasons. Its a bridge. That is it's job. |

Baudolino
Kenshin. Against ALL Authorities
15
|
Posted - 2013.10.05 09:21:00 -
[26] - Quote
while we're at it, just make it so that the blops bridges the firepower of your fleet. That way you can be 100% sure you dont loose anything, and that your 3948844dps actually hit that poor CNR you've been baiting for 8 weeks. |

Infinity Ziona
Hot Drop Buns
472
|
Posted - 2013.10.05 21:46:00 -
[27] - Quote
They would not be overpowered with a covert ops cloak.
Let's take my Proteus vs my Widow:
Proteus:
Sig of a cruiser Speed of a cruiser Lock of a cruiser 100k EHP Cov Ops Nullifier Very long point. 700 dps cold 6 sec align
Widow Sig of a BS Speed of a BS Terrible lock time 33k EHP (ECM fit) Covert Ops (one assumes then they would have the uncloak delay 4.5secs min) No Nullifier 1000 DPS (however we're talking rage torps and no painters) 9 sec align time
We have to assume in comparisons we're talking solo because if not then the variability of other ships makes any comparison pointless. If you're talking Blops gangs then it doesn't matter if it can warp cloaked because its friends can, it just turns up last or doesn't even jump through.
My main point is that T3s are already superior to a solo blops and they're not overpowered. You likely wont escape alive if you're ratting mining and get jumped by a cloaky T3 but you have a better chance of gtfo from a covert blops if one existed. |

Mister Tuggles
Faceless Men The Revenant Order
42
|
Posted - 2013.10.06 12:39:00 -
[28] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:They would not be overpowered with a covert ops cloak.
Let's take my Proteus vs my Widow:
Proteus:
Sig of a cruiser Speed of a cruiser Lock of a cruiser 100k EHP Cov Ops Nullifier Very long point. 700 dps cold 6 sec align
Widow Sig of a BS Speed of a BS Terrible lock time 33k EHP (ECM fit) Covert Ops (one assumes then they would have the uncloak delay 4.5secs min) No Nullifier 1000 DPS (however we're talking rage torps and no painters) 9 sec align time
We have to assume in comparisons we're talking solo because if not then the variability of other ships makes any comparison pointless. If you're talking Blops gangs then it doesn't matter if it can warp cloaked because its friends can, it just turns up last or doesn't even jump through.
My main point is that T3s are already superior to a solo blops and they're not overpowered. You likely wont escape alive if you're ratting mining and get jumped by a cloaky T3 but you have a better chance of gtfo from a covert blops if one existed.
I think the thing people are arguing is that Blops are just to be used as bridge devices. IMO that is a **** poor excuse for why they don't get cov-ops cloak. Nullbear tears would accumulate if you could interrupt their plex farming bots with a solo blop. |

Infinity Ziona
Hot Drop Buns
475
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 02:00:00 -
[29] - Quote
Mister Tuggles wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:They would not be overpowered with a covert ops cloak.
Let's take my Proteus vs my Widow:
Proteus:
Sig of a cruiser Speed of a cruiser Lock of a cruiser 100k EHP Cov Ops Nullifier Very long point. 700 dps cold 6 sec align
Widow Sig of a BS Speed of a BS Terrible lock time 33k EHP (ECM fit) Covert Ops (one assumes then they would have the uncloak delay 4.5secs min) No Nullifier 1000 DPS (however we're talking rage torps and no painters) 9 sec align time
We have to assume in comparisons we're talking solo because if not then the variability of other ships makes any comparison pointless. If you're talking Blops gangs then it doesn't matter if it can warp cloaked because its friends can, it just turns up last or doesn't even jump through.
My main point is that T3s are already superior to a solo blops and they're not overpowered. You likely wont escape alive if you're ratting mining and get jumped by a cloaky T3 but you have a better chance of gtfo from a covert blops if one existed. I think the thing people are arguing is that Blops are just to be used as bridge devices. IMO that is a **** poor excuse for why they don't get cov-ops cloak. Nullbear tears would accumulate if you could interrupt their plex farming bots with a solo blop. Yes it really doesn't make sense does it. Ships should have multiple roles. CCP has indicated they want them to have multiple roles and that has led to the tiericides.
I haven't read a logical argument from anyone who have said "they would be overpowered with covert cloak" as to WHY they would be overpowered. The whole idea of a covert ops fleet (with insta uncloak locking and scan res that a bomber gets) and a black ops suddenly appearing in local on top of you seems extremely more overpowered than a solo black ops.
One could argue that fleets of black ops might form and wtfpwn everyone with OP covert cloaking but as already mentioned fleets of covert bombers and covert T3s are much more mobile, faster locking, have more dps, damage application and EHP either through sig tanking or huge buffer tanks.
The argument against BLOPS covert cloaking is absurd and I believe stems from a desire to keep the ship solely to their own play style and an unfounded fear that it would lead to less safety for the same people when they're not protected in fleet and instead care-bearing in their null systems. |

Julius Priscus
163
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 03:00:00 -
[30] - Quote
Alex Logan wrote:1) give them enough fuel bay space to hold enough isotopes to jump a small covert fleet or travel without the fuel hassle.
a jump fuel bay yes...
Alex Logan wrote:2) enable the possibility of fitting covops cloaks but leave the regular bonus to speed under cloak.
covert ops cloak yes... speed mod while cloaked no.. just make them like the other stealth ships... recons etc.
Alex Logan wrote:You can remove some of the weapon bonuses if you feel they would become overpowered. Black ops should be very focused towards mobility, the JB and _some_ EW. They don't fight more than a NOC would with his sidearm (reduced damage and range), nevermind the uber bond movies.
imo they should be like bs versions of the recons. -»\_(pâä)_/-»-á Sup cracka ! |
| |
|
| Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |