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Remove the Highways

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Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2003.08.26 20:55:00 - [91] Quote: Quote: Edited by: Tychus on 26/08/2003 15:57:32 Agreed Chucky! With all due respect to the **ed traders, i'm gonna have to add this one to the "item/doohickey/new option gonna break the market" pile. A lot of those in favor of removing the highway seem to think they're the only ones in the game. HELLO! Because of the highway, i have gotten to game with hundreds of people that ordinarily would be out of reach. Fighting, trading, mining, or just hanging out with folks that were 70+ jumps from my home system. Thanks to the highway, things like the Arena Battles can draw pilots from across the galaxy. And i have gotten to see some of the flavor sites in game. The traders may not be happy with the highway, but it opened up the game for a lot of folks in a strong way. A solution and answer to this issue has already been proposed. Limit the highway traffic to shuttles only. That way, you can join in the exciting events, and all you'd have to do is buy a ship once you get to the region it's at. Then, dock your shuttle, get in your frigate, and battle it out. Hop back in your shuttle and go home. The more I think about it, the more I really like the idea of limiting the highways to shuttles-ONLY (perhaps reduce or eliminate the cargo capacity of shuttles at the same time). The economy would be totally insulated from homogenization, and people would still be able to travel across the universe to game with their Amarr or Caldari friends if they choose to. In fact, this would almost definitely increase demand for nearly all mods across the galaxy. Caldari Player A normally hunts guristas pirates, but wants to check out what it is like to fight the Angels. So Caldari Player A hops into his shuttle, takes a few jumps over to Minmatar space, and then must buy a ship THERE. Since he is only trained in Caldari cruisers, he increases the demand for caldari cruisers in that system, and buys a Moa from Minmatar Producer A, which increases the profits for Minmatar Producer A on his entrepreneuring abilities as he has taken the time and effort to get a Caldari blueprint and produce his ships in Minmatar space. Caldari Player A is happy because he has a ship that he can hunt Angels with, when he chooses to, and Minmatar Producer A is also happy since he is selling more foreign ships at higher prices. It is a win-win situation. People are able to travel if they so choose, but are UNABLE to totally flood the markets with all types of modules and ships since they have to take the long route with anything bigger than a shuttle. PS... Rare modules should be available for buy or sell on the in-game market ( the spamchannel) IN THE REGIONS OF THE EMPIRE FROM WHOSE PIRATES THEY DROP. I.e., in The Forge and in Lonetrek, you should be able to purchase 250mm prototype gauss guns, coils, etc. off the in-game market. But should not be able to do so in Amarr regions. You get the idea. Or Caldari Player A just takes the long road around and saves himself a couple of million isk. Shuttles = easy prey, too. LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!**
Dianabolic	Posted - 2003.08.26 20:56:00 - [92] The idea of restricting the highway to shuttles is a good one, imo.
Cao Cao	Posted - 2003.08.26 21:05:00 - [93] Josh, Exactly! But that would be the time investment tradeoff that would be his to make. He chooses whether he wants to take the long route which will cost him less (he won't have to buy another ship) and perhaps be more secure or the short route which costs more and may be more dangerous (possibly?). Or costs more and is safer. Who knows. Either way, you have the option for people to travel quickly while at the same time insulating the market from the horribly destructive effects of the superhighways. Oh yeah, and this is absolutely the easiest thing to implement in terms of RP.
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2003.08.26 21:07:00 - [94] I'm all for getting rid of the super highways and introducing an area between the regions for pirates and their ilk to hang out. I just fear the wrath of the impatient robotics trader LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Karash Amerius	Posted - 2003.08.26 21:39:00 - [95] Remove the Hiway system. Bind chat channels to Region level only. That would be fun (at least imo). Flame on, flame on!
Gan Howorth	Posted - 2003.08.26 21:56:00 - [96] Reducing chat channels to regions is a very nice idea. This creates a greater feeling of unknown, and information spread by individuals rather than instantly to all via technology. As for the gates, l agree lets dump them. Replace them with a region to region teleportation device (available in hub systems only) but no equipment can be taken with you. Price of teleportation includes a free shuttle at destination etc.. :)
Athren Soulsteal	Posted - 2003.08.26 22:18:00 - [97] Edited by: Athren Soulsteal on 26/08/2003 22:47:32 WRONG! As a matter of fact there needs to be more! No system in empire space should be more than 10 jumps from anywhere. Do you know why every American Game Reviewer gave EVE a bad review. Because If the useless time wasted in traveling. Every Game that is successful uses some sort of system to get from point a to point b quickly because they know that travel time is a waste. They use Town portals, teleports or for the SCIFI Star Portals. CCP, Stop pandering to the lamers who think they should be provided victims and make this game fun for the majority of the players. Take away the outragious travel times and guess what, you will start getting good reviews. The fact that people can go AFK (and have to)while traveling should give you a clue. No system in emire space should be farthere than 10 jumps and nothing outside should be more than 20. Gan Howorth, actually it's fine like it is. There is nothing wrong with the current highway system. Was just playing devil's avocate here for the anti-giveme players. Thast the rest of the players that don't want everything given to them. (IE; all systems should go though a low sec choke hole so I can get free kills cause I don't want to work for my isk)
Gan Howorth	Posted - 2003.08.26 22:32:00 - [98] Edited by: Gan Howorth on 26/08/2003 22:32:34 I don't know about that Athren. The whole point of making the eve universe large is so it is er....large. You dont have to go to the other side of the universe, that's the point. How can you have anything that's remote, or off the beaten path if every twunt can get there in less than 10 minutes. Where's the strategy of location fit in with your fist waving, looky wooky the US reviewers wont like you etc... Earth and Beyond I understand is nice and small.
Intruders	Posted - 2003.08.26 22:46:00 - [99] Quote: Do you know why every American Game Reviewer gave EVE a bad review. Because If the useless time wasted in traveling. Isnt it surprising they didnt do the same for earth and Beyond thought they should?..hmm wait! E&B was an American product!! Every man lives..but not every man dies! My sig sux
Jash Illian	Posted - 2003.08.26 23:25:00 - [100] Quote: Edited by: Athren Soulsteal on 26/08/2003 22:47:32 WRONG! As a matter of fact there needs to be more! No system in empire space should be more than 10 jumps from anywhere. Do you know why every American Game Reviewer gave EVE a bad review. Because If the useless time wasted in traveling. Every Game that is successful uses some sort of system to get from point a to point b quickly because they know that travel time is a waste. They use Town portals, teleports or for the SCIFI Star Portals. CCP, Stop pandering to the lamers who think they should be provided victims and make this game fun for the majority of the players. Take away the outragious travel times and guess what, you will start getting good reviews. The fact that people can go AFK (and have to)while traveling should give you a clue. No system in emire space should be farthere than 10 jumps and nothing outside should be more than 20. Gan Howorth, actually it's fine like it is. There is nothing wrong with the current highway system. Was just playing devil's avocate here for the anti-giveme players. Thast the rest of the players that don't want everything given to them. (IE; all systems should go though a low sec choke hole so I can get free kills cause I don't want to work for my isk) And there I was hoping someon had finally podded you back into preschool baby babble...Shame. Oh yes, out of the bad reviews received travel time was the focus. Nobody mentioned instability. Nobody mentioned the repetative nature of all actions in the game. Nobody mentioned the combat system. Nobody mentioned anything by travel time. That's why the US reviewer didn't like the game! It's the travel time! Yes, it must be that because that's the only thing you can find wrong with the game! Odd. You find piracy wrong in Eve yet not one of them mentioned anything about piracy. I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather *** my enemy.- Rohann Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!*- Lallante
The Wretch	Posted - 2003.08.26 23:40:00 - [101] "I think the best solution is to make the highways campable by pirates :D That way the tradeoff for this blinding speed of travel is increased risk of piracy :)" This is a good idea. The Wretch Cyberdyne Systems CEO
Jash Illian	Posted - 2003.08.27 00:21:00 - [102] Quote: "I think the best solution is to make the highways campable by pirates :D That way the tradeoff for this blinding speed of travel is increased risk of piracy :)" This is a good idea. Even I don't feel like hearing some new player complain his autopilot set the route through a M3G4 blockade. And then a bunch of furcovered bystanders making him into a martyr. Plus that would mean a big mess as pirate groups cut a bloody red spacelane between low sec space and the highway systems. Highways shrinking the sovereign empires' regions is good. Highways linking the sovereign empires is bad. I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather *** my enemy.- Rohann Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!*- Lallante
j0sephine	Posted - 2003.08.27 00:27:00 - [103] "Highways linking the sovereign empires is bad." ... Just have the fanatic Amarrian group blow them up like they did before --according to the old RP bug spin-- with their highway gate when the whole system was being introduced... only make sure this time they do a better job at it. :s
Drutort	Posted - 2003.08.27 00:32:00 - [104] to remove the highways is stupid... this game is one of the first games to give people training of skills OFF LINE... and to then have people spend X hours just go from point A to point B is stupid... a lot of people who looked at the offline skills as a good thing are not going to like this game for all the travel time... what about those people who have the weekends off, you think they want to get on the game and spend few hours just in traveling... travel time isnt even game play in here... there is nothing that can happen when you are in warp... only at gates etc... its a waste of time, you do nothing while in warp... I do agree on limiting the highways though... that is much better idea then getting rid of them. also like others said, limiting the highways would makes sense if you had those other options in the game to travel... you all know those ideas that were put in and some how now they vanished... people should not have to end up clone jumping in this game... it shows that travel is a major waste of time and the lack of other means to get to places... people should have options like this... very fast travel... transportation of your char ONLY... fast travel -> access with shuttle highway?? normal travel.. well going like we are now... maybe without the highways? industrial travel... maybe restricting the indies from highways... just like we do with trucks IRL... highways should be secure, and saft and yet quite limited in what you can carry in cargo... there needs to be trade off for fast travel and some kind of price to pay and it needs to be ballanced well. support Idea: QuickInfo an alternative to ShowInfo my MoBlog
Jash Illian	Posted - 2003.08.27 00:32:00 - [105] Quote: "Highways linking the sovereign empires is bad." ... Just have the fanatic Amarrian group blow them up like they did before --according to the old RP bug spin-- with their highway gate when the whole system was being introduced... only make sure this time they do a better job at it. :s Actually, that is another reason why the highways are bad. CCP seemed to be on the verge of sparking a Race War between Amarr and Minmatar. With Amarr being so close to Heimatar and the systems where the highways exit being 1.0 space, what kind of complaining do you think we'd see when Oracle or the Red Corsairs start popping through into Amarr and then going off to wreck havok in the Amarr Empire, with no way to stop them? I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather *** my enemy.- Rohann Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!*- Lallante
j0sephine	Posted - 2003.08.27 00:43:00 - [106] Edited by: j0sephine on 27/08/2003 00:44:43 "Actually, that is another reason why the highways are bad. CCP seemed to be on the verge of sparking a Race War between Amarr and Minmatar." Aye, 'tis why i brought up the Amarrians in the first place; was thinking, this coming race war could be actually a good in-game excuse to have the gates removed by the said fanatics. ^^; edit: for the fast personal transport over long distances... what about finally introducing the interBus, if just as some magical 'teleport' service at the stations, with fixed fee per each jump required?..
Cao Cao	Posted - 2003.08.27 01:08:00 - [107] Edited by: Cao Cao on 27/08/2003 01:09:04 Josephine, Because that would make no sense in the context of the storyline. I can see how a suped-up version of a jumpgate can be discovered ... but teleportation? Keep the highways to shuttles, reduce shuttle cargo space to 1.0 m3, and you have a great system. You won't be able to carry modules, only blueprints or books. And to whoever was *****ing about travel time being so long without the highways: YOU DONT NEED TO GODDAMN TRAVEL TO PLAY THE GAME! The whole idea is that SOME people become inter-stellar traders while others set up shop in their own little corner of space and hire the traders to transport the goods for them. You only need to travel if you CHOOSE to. And it SHOULD be a long haul, that's what makes the game so damn unique! It is a BIG FRIGGING WORLD! EDIT: eliminate cargo space in shuttles. You should have to make a long-ass haul to acquire blueprints of other races' ships and equipment.
Jash Illian	Posted - 2003.08.27 01:08:00 - [108] Quote: to remove the highways is stupid... this game is one of the first games to give people training of skills OFF LINE... and to then have people spend X hours just go from point A to point B is stupid... a lot of people who looked at the offline skills as a good thing are not going to like this game for all the travel time... what about those people who have the weekends off, you think they want to get on the game and spend few hours just in traveling... travel time isnt even game play in here... there is nothing that can happen when you are in warp... only at gates etc... its a waste of time, you do nothing while in warp... Did you ever give even the slightest consideration to the fact that maybe you were meant to stay in a region for a while? And maybe your weren't meant to make 50 jumps every days unless you really really really really really really really wanted to? My corp has major offices in Metropolis and Genesis (major meaning they have at least factory slots for resupplying). When I go out to the Genesis office, I stay there a while. A couple days usually, unless something needs my attention back in Metropolis. If the highway systems weren't there, I'd prolly do a week at each office and make a massive hauling trip between the two in a fully stocked industrial. Quote: I do agree on limiting the highways though... that is much better idea then getting rid of them. also like others said, limiting the highways would makes sense if you had those other options in the game to travel... you all know those ideas that were put in and some how now they vanished... people should not have to end up clone jumping in this game... it shows that travel is a major waste of time and the lack of other means to get to places... people should have options like this... very fast travel... transportation of your char ONLY... fast travel -> access with shuttle highway?? normal travel.. well going like we are now... maybe without the highways? industrial travel... maybe restricting the indies from highways... just like we do with trucks IRL... highways should be secure, and saft and yet quite limited in what you can carry in cargo... there needs to be trade off for fast travel and some kind of price to pay and it needs to be ballanced well. Honestly, while that might actually work I doubt we'd ever see it. CCP is just now starting to play with restricting gate access, per their last CSM log I believe. Restricting according to tonnage and other criteria prolly isn't anything we'd see soon. If they don't get waylaid by other more pressing issues. Tis easier to destroy them and I'd miss them not. I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather *** my enemy.- Rohann Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!*- Lallante
j0sephine	Posted - 2003.08.27 02:08:00 - [109] Edited by: j0sephine on 27/08/2003 02:12:07 "Because that would make no sense in the context of the storyline. I can see how a suped-up version of a jumpgate can be discovered ... but teleportation?" Sorry, didn't make myself clear; didn't mean 'technical' teleportation. Rather, due to (likely) lack of 3d models for interBus ships at the moment, was thinking of some simplified way to implement this feature, something along the lines of: * player selects the interBus service icon at the station, then the destination station be it from the list, map, search request, whatever. * they're presented with some sort of confirmation screen they're using the interBus shuttle and the eta.(or with a sample of Gallentean **** to keep them interested, i don't know; can imagine the complaints how this bus service takes too long and there's nothing to do meanwhile already) * once the travel is done, the player is put at the destination station. They can buy themselves a ship here and fly around region if they so wish, or maybe just check the local prices and take another shuttle home or to maybe yet different place. ... in a nutshell, an additional way of travel for those who insist they must move around a lot. Faster than the 'regular' shuttle, but at the price of the 'bus ticket' and not being able to take anything to the new place, just yourself.
Parallax 7D	Posted - 2003.08.27 03:52:00 - [110] Cao seems to have the best grasp on the situation here. I hope CCP understands what your trying to say. Alot of players seem not to. "Me no likey travel time ugh, market variation? Dont use big words, why me not there yet? Why cant me just travel a 500,000 light years in 3 seconds??" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Marge: But, Mr. Ambassador, how are we going to get home? Ambassador: Beats me. Try getting a job and earning some money. That's what I did. By the way, ambassador's taken.
Jash Illian	Posted - 2003.08.27 12:02:00 - [111] Quote: Cao seems to have the best grasp on the situation here. I hope CCP understands what your trying to say. Alot of players seem not to. "Me no likey travel time ugh, market variation? Dont use big words, why me not there yet? Why cant me just travel a 500,000 light years in 3 seconds??" No, a lot of players know what's happening and are taking full advantage of it. Hence the resistance to removing the gates. I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather *** my enemy.- Rohann Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!*- Lallante
Karash Amerius	Posted - 2003.08.28 04:09:00 - [112] I am going to give this topic a bump because I believe its such an important issue. What makes EvE's design unique? It was marketed as a massive gameworld...and it just does not feel like this now.

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