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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.08.25 21:28:00 -
[1]
The superhighways are doing more damage than good in my opinion. The superhighways have reduced travel time, definately. But let's look at the harm they're doing:
- The highways have removed regional pricing on market items
Prior to the introduction of the highways, items on the market could be priced according to region, allowing for importing. Laser items in Heimatar sold for a higher price due to their lack of availibility from pirates and the scarceness of blueprints. A person manufacturing or hunting in Genesis could load up an industrial and deliver the items to Heimatar. And justifiably raise the price. The reverse was true with projectiles. Now with the highways, Genesis is 3-4 jumps away and negates the regional pricing.
- Trade Risk vs Reward imbalance
Prior to the introduction of highways, cross-region trade routes usually involved going through low sec space. Which meant running into player pirates. This was a justified risk factor, despite what people may want to claim, for the higher profit those routes usually returned. The problem with trade goods being bought up and demand disappearing after downtime was never as bad as it was until the highway systems were introduced. Now trade is completely ****ed, for lack of a better term. Where before a successful trader had to have both appropriate skills for running blockades and good planning skills for setting up routes, now being a succesful trader involves nothing more than getting an industrial and some isk.
Travel time may be a pain in the ass. But looking over what was lost versus saving time travelling, I have to say the highways are not worth it. People keep saying Eve isn't an instant reward game, that you have to have patience to play. If that is true, then the highways run counter to that argument and should be removed. Travelling from region to region should take time and reward those willing to make the trip. Those unwilling to make the trips should stay in the regions they're at.
There is no highway to Curse or Fountain. Yet people make that trip daily because it's worth it to them. Tranporting goods between Genesis and Heimatar should follow the same principles. If a highway is to be implemented, it should be between the regions inside each Sovereignty. IE: Heimatar, Metropolis and Molden Heath. Or the different regions that make up the Amarr Empire.
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Chucky
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Posted - 2003.08.25 21:33:00 -
[2]
The stargates into Nonni and New Caldari are experiencing some technical difficulties at the moment. Going through them might leave your ship stuck in space without control. Travellers are adviced to stay away until technicians have repaired the gates.
That make you happy?
... you will see more and more marketing which in turn will bring you more players to torture. |
Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.08.25 21:37:00 -
[3]
 Quote:
The stargates into Nonni and New Caldari are experiencing some technical difficulties at the moment. Going through them might leave your ship stuck in space without control. Travellers are adviced to stay away until technicians have repaired the gates.
That make you happy?
No
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Dust Puppy
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Posted - 2003.08.25 22:08:00 -
[4]
See your point Jash. I was under the impression that the access to highways would be somewhat restricted in the near future. For example smuggling through these highways would be more risk in getting cought.
Probably not what you were hoping for but still something
__________
Capacitor research |
Cao Cao
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Posted - 2003.08.25 22:11:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Cao Cao on 25/08/2003 22:11:49
Quote:
The superhighways are doing more damage than good in my opinion.
100% agree with your entire argument. They should go.
EDIT: throw this topic up on the patch board plz.
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Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2003.08.25 22:13:00 -
[6]
All makes sense but imagine travelling times now that you can't MWD out of warp.
Still, I think I could suffer the longer travel times if it means corporations who've worked damn hard to get an extensive list of bp's can actually start making good profits.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Torque Mada
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Posted - 2003.08.25 22:13:00 -
[7]
Have to agree to this too. Not nearly as much profit.
Can the super-highways.
"You're not drunk if you can lie on the floor without holding on" |
illuminati
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Posted - 2003.08.25 22:17:00 -
[8]
I see what you want and why, regional variation.
Although I would hate to sacrifice hours and hours of traveling for the sake of your trade profit.
I vote nay on this, they are one of the best things that ever happened in EvE imo.
Especially with MWD nerf-nerf.
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Keo Morigan
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Posted - 2003.08.25 22:25:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Keo Morigan on 25/08/2003 22:25:58
Want me to spend more time infront of my already hated autopilot and 60 jumps travels?
If your not a part of the solution, then you'r probably a part of the problem. |
Valeria
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Posted - 2003.08.25 22:28:00 -
[10]
Yarr, I was making some mad money in beta by buying large quantities of lasers in Genesis and selling back in Minmatar space. And this was when frequency crystals was not available anywhere, thus making lasers useless. Still people bought them happily for twice of what they sold for in Genesis.
Your 425mm Prototype I Gauss Gun perfectly strikes some nublar, wrecking for 1155.0 damage. |
Blueblooded
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Posted - 2003.08.25 22:29:00 -
[11]
I don't agree, since your argument only works within empirespace. There are still alot of treveling to the outer regions, and I think that it will increse even more when player owned stations are in the game and the eve world will grow.
The biggest problem for trade at the moment is all the claimed systems, were you need to get permission in order to trade or worse get KOS just showing up.
----------------------------------------
"The royal blood is blue, hence my name"
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Lubinski
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Posted - 2003.08.25 22:30:00 -
[12]
only the people that run trade runs are *****in. the rest of us that do oddles and oddles of jumps a day are not *****in cause it cuts down on time sitting here watchin the screen jump after jump after jump. the traders should stop *****in and quit playin. the game is evolving. just like our society, we get more people we expand well were expanding our travel routes due to larger amounts of travel.. stfu
~ FLAME AWAY TROLLS ~ |
Thano
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Posted - 2003.08.25 22:31:00 -
[13]
as much as i love the superhighway i have to agree.. they hurt the economy.... but if they for some reason did remove the highway just emagine the amount of BI***ing that would go on
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qrac
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Posted - 2003.08.25 22:35:00 -
[14]
bring on tolls!
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Insanes numquam moriuntur! |
Belarius
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Posted - 2003.08.25 22:38:00 -
[15]
I don't mind the super-highways IF they place tolls on them, make it by cargo value. That way those with expensive hauls will pay for the loss in value to risk trade-off. If you want safety for the cargo being transported then expect to pay a significant amount of isk. If not take the longer route through possibly dangerous territory...
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Klydor
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Posted - 2003.08.25 22:39:00 -
[16]
I hate the super highways (although I do use them) I would prefer them to suffer some sabotage and fail.
I would also prefer the main races chunk of regions to be surrounded by a neutral 0.0 space. Making inter region travel more fun. Like a border zone.
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Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2003.08.25 22:40:00 -
[17]
Quote:
only the people that run trade runs are *****in. the rest of us that do oddles and oddles of jumps a day are not *****in cause it cuts down on time sitting here watchin the screen jump after jump after jump. the traders should stop *****in and quit playin. the game is evolving. just like our society, we get more people we expand well were expanding our travel routes due to larger amounts of travel.. stfu
I'm not a trader and I'd willingly accept the longer journeys if it meant the production/manufacturing showed real profits.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.08.25 22:42:00 -
[18]
Quote:
I see what you want and why, regional variation.
Although I would hate to sacrifice hours and hours of traveling for the sake of your trade profit.
I vote nay on this, they are one of the best things that ever happened in EvE imo.
Especially with MWD nerf-nerf.
Then as I said, you should play at the Regional level of Eve. Not the Universal level. I have no problem with loading up a hoarder with a ton of items I intend to sell and making 50 jumps to sell them in a different region. That would be no different from me hopping in my Rupture and making 50 jumps to get to a decent pirate spawn point.
If you can do it to hunt pirates, why can't you do it for manufacturing or mining? The highways are affecting the prices on ores and minerals as well. Where there was regional pricing on low end ores, mostly according to where new players started, none exists now except for Megacyte and Zydrine. If there are fewer people mining low end ores in Amarr space, there is the opportunity for people in Gallente space to export the trit and pyr for higher prices due to the lack of availibility. Also instead of seeing a corporation strip mine in Heimatar and then kill all the demand from there to Khanid selling the minerals, the travel time would dissuade them as it no longer becomes profitable.
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Ana Khouri
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Posted - 2003.08.25 22:45:00 -
[19]
I aggree, too. The highways are a nice way to travel, but they kill the market even more (if a dead horse can be killed yet another time) and generall make the eve universe too small.
free speech not allowed here |
Drathel Bech
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Posted - 2003.08.25 22:46:00 -
[20]
While we're at it, we should kill the trade channel as well. You can't buy much beyond noob items on the "market". It's all done on the trade channel. I've been playing the game for about a week, and my dreams of being a interstellar merchant were dashed when I discovered the trade channel. Everything goes direct from supplier to consumer without an opportunity to be a middleman (unless you consider watching trade and buying low, selling high and never having to enter your ship fun).
Even with highways gone, best you could hope for is to be a shipper for someone who bought something on the trade channel. I think all advertising/pricing should be happening on the regional markets as that would open more career opportunities for players. Right now, we have a universe-wide homogeneous economy.
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Cao Cao
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Posted - 2003.08.25 22:50:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Cao Cao on 25/08/2003 22:55:03
Quote:
only the people that run trade runs are *****in. the rest of us that do oddles and oddles of jumps a day are not *****in cause it cuts down on time sitting here watchin the screen jump after jump after jump. the traders should stop *****in and quit playin. the game is evolving. just like our society, we get more people we expand well were expanding our travel routes due to larger amounts of travel.. stfu
Quite possibly the most ignorant post I've read in quite a while.
As an aside, I am not a trader, and I am complaining because one of the real great things I saw when I first started playing EVE was that it DID in fact take hours to go from one end of the game world to the other. Thus, you get defined localities that has its own supply and demand for each item.
For example. All the rare loot that Amarr pirates drop (which is different table than the guristas pirates) is now readily available to me since I can get out to the Amarr cruiser spawns in about 30 minutes. Since the travel time is cut, there's no value to trading in these types of items.
I remember I had a hookup with someone for cu vapors that drop from Gallente pirates. She would go out, hunt the pirates, and sell me a wad of these lasers for about 1 mil each. I would pick them up, haul them back to The Forge and Lonetrek, where they would sell for about 2.5 million each. (I can't do that anymore since I've got an uber negative sec rating  )
Can't do that anymore since everyone is within 15 jumps of everyone else.
Everyone who shouts back "BUT I WANT MY QUICK TRAVEL AND I WANT IT NOW!" obviously doesn't understand that the whole underlying concept of EVE was to create a "realesque" trading system which is the underpinning of the economy. Remember way back when Merlins cost 205k isk in Lonetrek but way out in Amarr space they were selling for 350-400k isk?
Not anymore. Not a chance.
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Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.08.25 22:57:00 -
[22]
Quote:
While we're at it, we should kill the trade channel as well. You can't buy much beyond noob items on the "market". It's all done on the trade channel. I've been playing the game for about a week, and my dreams of being a interstellar merchant were dashed when I discovered the trade channel. Everything goes direct from supplier to consumer without an opportunity to be a middleman (unless you consider watching trade and buying low, selling high and never having to enter your ship fun).
Even with highways gone, best you could hope for is to be a shipper for someone who bought something on the trade channel. I think all advertising/pricing should be happening on the regional markets as that would open more career opportunities for players. Right now, we have a universe-wide homogeneous economy.
The removal of the highways would kill the Trade channel. How many times have you seen "Delivery to highway systems *ONLY*" on there? People devoted to shipping, and possibly courier missions, would increase. Along with the possibility of purely distribution corporations.
A change like this would also help the economy by separating the manufacturers. Right now an individual manufacturer can easily cover 2 regions with his goods just by hitting Pator and Yulai. My corp just hit the 10 man point and the only thing keeping us from ****ing a lot of manufacturers off with our prices is mining: we find it a necessary evil but really don't enjoy it. With our skills, we could easily destroy the markets in every highway system. Which takes the regions they're in with them. I know of an individual manufacturer that can easily do the same.
Cross-regional distribution should be the domain of larger corporations. Yet a single manufacturer with high Production Efficiency and low Greed can kill everyone's prices in 3-4 regions at will.
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Tabius
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Posted - 2003.08.25 23:31:00 -
[23]
Personally, I'd just like to see the time spent on a highway, increased dramatically.... It would solve a lot of problems if people knew they might be spending an hour on a region jumping super highway.....
I liked the fact that it took a long time to get across the galaxy... It made the game seem bigger... more depth to it...
I know CCP is reading this thread thinking 'sheesh, we can't win' but just a substantial increase in transit time might balance both arguments...
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Agent Shield
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Posted - 2003.08.26 00:10:00 -
[24]
Highway toll?
Would that solve anything?
I see the highway system as a done deal and it will stay, but will restrictions on it's use may be in the cards one day?
Just some random thoughts.
Agent Shield |
Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.08.26 00:17:00 -
[25]
Quote:
Highway toll?
Would that solve anything?
I see the highway system as a done deal and it will stay, but will restrictions on it's use may be in the cards one day?
Just some random thoughts.
Tolls wouldn't work. Anything discouraging would kill the new players. Anything less would be pocket change. Look at factory rents.
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Gan Howorth
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Posted - 2003.08.26 00:32:00 -
[26]
I can see the reasoning behind removing the superhighway. But if l had to do 10 times more jumps to find out what l often suspect from the outset... "there is no supply!" and "there is no demand!" for everything but soil, l might well have to top myself. :)
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Johnson McCrae
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Posted - 2003.08.26 00:35:00 -
[27]
Too many greedy guts looking for 'profit'.
You want risk, profit? Go trade in 0.0 space. Some of those stations pay outrageous prices for things.
It ain't over till the fat lady falls on ya!
[ 2004.10.09 02:50:23 ] (combat) Your 425mm Compressed Coil Gun I perfectly strikes Guardian Sentry, wrecking for 747.3 damage.
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Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.08.26 00:52:00 -
[28]
Quote:
Too many greedy guts looking for 'profit'.
You want risk, profit? Go trade in 0.0 space. Some of those stations pay outrageous prices for things.
There is a difference between greed and sense.
Greed is wanting the highways to stay because you know damn well they're easy, safe profit. Yeah, there are stations out in 0.0 space with good trade. Why? Because it's like walking into a kennel with a pork chop tied around your neck.
But in the mean time empire space, which is where everyone starts, is falling apart because of the highways. I believe in trial by fire too. I told a new corp member who had no relevant combat experience (didn't know how to reload his weapons) he'd be defending in a merlin for the corp one day while we mine in .3 space.
But I'm not so much of a sod that we won't take him out and let him cut his teeth on something he can handle while we're there to assist. Don't you realize that On/Off isn't good for a game? You have to ease people into things. I can easily operate in 0.0 space. But I'm not stupid enough to tell everyone to do so.
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
HendriX
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Posted - 2003.08.26 01:09:00 -
[29]
Edited by: HendriX on 26/08/2003 01:10:44
Jash, I understand your post very well and I want to comment on it objectively, well as much as I can, cause I am biased as a trader.
I understand that the highways have killed the market drastically, but considering the points that I will list below, I do not want the highways to be removed before these get fixed;
- Courier mission bugs; seen too many ppl lose so much to this that it is a bigger risk to use this and to go into 0.0 space,
- Down-time buy and sell orders from NPC's; this has killed trading more than anything else, a dynamic system that pops-up orders (edit: during the whole 23 hours that the server is up) at random is needed, specially for ppl not in europe,
- Not being able to use AB's or MWD coming out of warp; this has mostly killed trading for ppl with haulers that went into 0.0 space (My max speed with Expanders installed is 892m/s using 1 Quadlif MWD and Nav lvl 5, I can't run blockades with this since it takes me 4 seconds to reach that speed and about 6 seconds for it to drain my cap. Considering that BB has 0.6 lock time, I aint going low-sec),
There may be more reasons, but these are, IMHO, the most important one's.
If these get a fix, I would have np's with removing the highways.
Thank you,
HendriX
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SlightlyMad
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Posted - 2003.08.26 02:10:00 -
[30]
NO
. <------ (notice the dot)
Since WHEN has "faster and more reliable infrastructure connecting remote areas and making trade faster and easier" been know to stagnate economy and growth?
The answer is "never, its the opposite"
Some reservation for the artificial environment in eve. But still... ?
*
-"You know, we play the "good guys" right? We kill pirates, griefers, retards and general subversive elements in the EVE-Community. To the rest, we are friendly and always prepared to help out. Peo |
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