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Ackhillies	Posted - 2006.01.21 02:00:00 - [1] Ok- I've been able to fly a HAC (zealot) for awhile now but I can't bring myself to spend 150mil on a cool cruiser. It seems to me a Prophecy can do the exact same job as a Zealot, it just lacks the agility of the cruiser class. So I ask myself...if I spend 25mil on a Prophecy...with about 20mil worth of fittings on there (50mil) is paying an extra 100mil for the HAC worth it? Respond all you amarr pilots out there that can fly both :)
Johnny Twoshoe	Posted - 2006.01.21 02:14:00 - [2] I've flown Prophecies, and I'm training for a Zealot right now, but I'm probably never going to bother with another Prophecy. Why? It's slow as molasses. This decision may come down to play style. The Zealot and Prophecy are alike, but the Zealot is far faster and more maneuverable. I enjoy speed and maneuverability; I hate the sluggish nature of some of the larger ships. That's me. My decision was based purely upon play style. --------------------------------------------- Johnny Twoshoe - Nuttier Than Thou (\_/) (O.o) (> <)
Ackhillies	Posted - 2006.01.21 02:18:00 - [3] Very true- but a prophecy can have all resists in the 70%'s have well over 6k armor hp...and have webs/ab/nos/smartbombs and maybe more drones to counter any hac and it's tank.
Deja Thoris	Posted - 2006.01.21 02:23:00 - [4] You are dead right. A well flown prophecy will match a zealot. I have hac V blah blah but a well set up prophecy can tank like a mofo. Speed agility and sig radius are where it falls short of a zealot. Is that worth the extra ISK?
Darpz	Posted - 2006.01.21 02:23:00 - [5] BC>HAC Originally by: TomB Originally by: Darpz Originally by: Sobeseki Pawi CCP will nerf this probably, but hey, worth a try so your saying I should of kept my mouth shut? Yup.
Ackhillies	Posted - 2006.01.21 02:29:00 - [6] deja I miss seeing you in VV...but yeah good point....if I want speed usually go for my pimpstyle maller or AF...but 150 for a cruiser that only has 5 high slots? Really? And they took away the uber HS II stacking bonus's didn't they?
Slink Grinsdikild	Posted - 2006.01.21 02:34:00 - [7] In my opinion you're better off with T1 Cruisers for solo stuff, T1 Battle Cruisers for gang stuff (when you get a nice warpin from a gangmate, who needs speed?) Plus with BC's you get the option of warfare links aswell.
Liet Traep	Posted - 2006.01.21 03:06:00 - [8] I love Zealots. but not for the price they're at now. i trained BC V and my resists on a prophecy are above 70% easily. I'd buy a zealot but to pvp in at their price.
Scalor Valentis	Posted - 2006.01.21 03:15:00 - [9] Before pach the Hacs were superior to BC but after CCP buffed BC cap abaut 25%+ the closerange preformance of BC, espesialy the energy superiority will wipe the floor with HACs sideways. NOS > HAC Only viable HACs there is is Muninn, Cerberus and Ishtar. And the two last mentioned are simpply to expensive to choose over BS counterparts. Muninn is still in somewhat afordable range to be bayby tempest. Every other Hac there is is outpreformed at its intendet role by BC or BS counterparts and are cheeper at same time. I say, the HAC's prices has reached its zenith i comparing to the advantage of rmobility/firepower/durability/cap theye has to offer.
Kunming	Posted - 2006.01.21 03:24:00 - [10] I love the prophecy, its one of the most vestile ships in EVE if you ask me. If you're looking for a ship you can go out pvp regulary and dont mind losing then the prophecy is your call I'd say... if you're with a bunch of mates planing to form a deadly patrol squad then the zealot would be best. HACs dont perform very well in fleets, you will most probably called primary in the purpose of doing the most economical dmg to the enemy. They belong more to pirating parties and gank squads. If you have the skills to fit gang modules a BC would be a valuable addition to all kinds of gangs. Alone it all depends on against what you fit (anti-frig/cruiser/bs), dont expect to break Raven and Apoc tanks though, something HACs are better at. BC vs HAC, I would say T2 fitted BC would win vs T2 fitted HAC, if fitted right that is. Prophecy has an advantage there, since it doesnt have any laser dmg bonus' but a resistance bonus instead you can use different types of guns. I killed many vagabonds with my AC Prophecy. BCs can fit PG intensive setups, have lots of armor/shield, but are slow and have a big sig radius (vulnearable to BSs), HACs are pretty much the opposite. In the end it comes to what role you want the the ship to perform. Website Killboard
Recscue	Posted - 2006.01.21 03:38:00 - [11] BC is prolly better than hacs, but it is more of a playstyle thing, hacs can be more versatile. If you side for a BC, why not just go one step further and just fly a BS.
Jim Raynor	Posted - 2006.01.21 04:20:00 - [12] I think HAC prices are pretty much retarded right now but I don't think battlecruisers can match a HAC.. Prophecy vs Zealot is about the only one that is iffy because the Prophecy almost makes up for its lack of firepower with the ability to simply mount more guns than the Zealot. But then look at Ferox vs Cerberus.. Ferox has no chance. ------
Beast Rabban	Posted - 2006.01.21 04:55:00 - [13] Originally by: Jim Raynor I think HAC prices are pretty much retarded right now but I don't think battlecruisers can match a HAC.. Prophecy vs Zealot is about the only one that is iffy because the Prophecy almost makes up for its lack of firepower with the ability to simply mount more guns than the Zealot. But then look at Ferox vs Cerberus.. Ferox has no chance. Max skill Cyclone matches just about any HAC. I mean ****, u can sustained a large sheild booster II, boost 130 hp a sec, fit med 3 nos II plus 5 425mm II and its actually agile compared to most ships of its class.
Naldo	Posted - 2006.01.21 05:16:00 - [14] This is just like them my dad can beat your dad. I fly Zealots, is it better than battlecruisers? I don't know, every battlecruiser i have fought so far (not many i must add) they have gone boom in 30 seconds to two minutes. I think Zealots could do with a little extra as i think they lack a certain ooomph that i see from other hac's, its the most fun ship i ever flown though. Why do i pay 150m for a Zealot? Well because i can afford it. Sigs Rule!!!
Jim Raynor	Posted - 2006.01.21 05:24:00 - [15] Quote: Max skill Cyclone matches just about any HAC. I mean **, u can sustain a large sheild booster II, boost 130 hp a sec, fit med 3 nos II plus 5 425mm II and its actually agile compared to most ships of its class. Huh? A Large Shield Booster II fit on a Cyclone repairs 87hp/s, with a 30% amplifier, it boosts 107hp/s, how are you getting 130hp/s? :) Quote:** edit - cerb vs ferox, yah but the ferox of all the bcs is crap, what i don't get is the cyclone runs a better tank and has higher dps, prophacy can run 2 med armor rep II now sustained, and the brutix with its 7 blasters actually does higher dps after the patch then other ships, since it never did have the cpu to fit more then 3 magstab II which now is more or less the max for gank. Funny, people seem to favor the Ferox over other battlecruisers, perhaps because its weapons are not limited to the ships speed, as are blasters and pulse lasers. ------
Blind Man	Posted - 2006.01.21 05:27:00 - [16] Edited by: Blind Man on 21/01/2006 05:28:25 4 amps 4tw... i get mine up to 147.2 energy 600 boost with bc 4. cyclone > hacs
Scalor Valentis	Posted - 2006.01.21 05:39:00 - [17] Edited by: Scalor Valentis on 21/01/2006 05:43:21 Originally by: Jim Raynor I think HAC prices are pretty much retarded right now but I don't think battlecruisers can match a HAC.. Prophecy vs Zealot is about the only one that is iffy because the Prophecy almost makes up for its lack of firepower with the ability to simply mount more guns than the Zealot. But then look at Ferox vs Cerberus.. Ferox has no chance. What youa re basing this asumption on Jim? In RMR with the new tankking stufff, getting stupidly hig resistances on other-than-HAC is no longer an issue. Also give the recent BC cap increase, i say BC's are wel par with HACs. Granted, Hacs are more mobile, but given a skilled pilot, he can handle himself as well in HAC as in BC, and BC dont give so much fear of loosing it. /edit: i think the main reason peoples are paying stupid prices for HACs are the "im-no-noob-in-BC" complex, its like i got HAC lvl so i win assumption... And gues what, loosing hac to BC now more like probable then possible, due the fact more and more HAC pilots are now employing BC. The old asumption, if its in BC its nub" is no more true.
keepiru	Posted - 2006.01.21 05:54:00 - [18] Tbh, brutix and cyclone can reliably kill a large number of hacs right now. The brutix mostly does it via out-damaging a deimos while running a dual-rep tank with injector. The 5x 220/3x med nos, XL-booster cyclone is just, so damn nasty at short-range. ------------- Please fix the EW stacking bug, it's a disgrace!
Beast Rabban	Posted - 2006.01.21 06:09:00 - [19] Edited by: Beast Rabban on 21/01/2006 06:09:18 Originally by: Jim Raynor Quote: Max skill Cyclone matches just about any HAC. I mean **, u can sustain a large sheild booster II, boost 130 hp a sec, fit med 3 nos II plus 5 425mm II and its actually agile compared to most ships of its class. Huh? A Large Shield Booster II fit on a Cyclone repairs 87hp/s, with a 30% amplifier, it boosts 107hp/s, how are you getting 130hp/s? :) Quote:** edit - cerb vs ferox, yah but the ferox of all the bcs is crap, what i don't get is the cyclone runs a better tank and has higher dps, prophacy can run 2 med armor rep II now sustained, and the brutix with its 7 blasters actually does higher dps after the patch then other ships, since it never did have the cpu to fit more then 3 magstab II which now is more or less the max for gank. Funny, people seem to favor the Ferox over other battlecruisers, perhaps because its weapons are not limited to the ships speed, as are blasters and pulse lasers. Faction amp plus a few crystal implants. Its cool the way the bonus, plus amp, plus implants don't have any stacking penalties. People all fly the ferox because it takes way less skill, and its the precursor to the raven. Also to the last poster, wow xlsheild booster II, how long does that run? Thats just hardcore. But yah Brutix and Cyclone are the only BC that I have been able to take down HACs with most of the time, the Prophacy just doesn't do enough dps after the patch, it used to be 6 Heavy Pulse II and 5 - 6 heatsink II was pwnage. Then again it takes less time to make a HAC the pwnage, for Brutix and Cyclone it takes max capac skills, max sheild skills (cyclone) and good gunnery since you only have 1 slot left for dmg mods.
keepiru	Posted - 2006.01.21 06:26:00 - [20] Cant rememebr wether it was a t2 or c5-l, but pretty darn long with 3 medium nos II on the enemy. With BC and Compensation 5, 90% of base cap use and a 37.5% amp inbuilt, its just plain scary. OFC, it dies to anything that doesent care about nossing (cerb) and/or that can nos it back (ishtar). It would probably draw with a suckrilege. Its also possible to kill it by keeping within 12 and 20km... i doubt anyone would put corpum nos on a BC. Thats much the same with the Blasterix, though depending on how you start out and your respective setups/skill its possible to break a cerbs tank so fast it cant kill you - 600+ dps with ion IIs and 2 magstab IIs - including drones. Harder to do against a sacri, but the injector means you can ignore the nos for a good amount of time, so with good gunnery/drone skills even that is possible - youre basically doing BS-level dps. Yes, theyre slower than HACs, and die quite easily if you choose the wrong fight/screw up/get ganked, but seeing as the whole ship + setup package generally sets you back less than 50m and the hull is insurable... ------------- Please fix the EW stacking bug, it's a disgrace!
Kaylana Syi	Posted - 2006.01.21 06:46:00 - [21] Actually Jim, @ BC 5 the ferox is one tuff kitten. In fact I think all the BCs have their use. If you can get over the speed and agility differences they are hard to match. Originally by: "Oveur" I don't react to threats any better than you do
Other Minion	Posted - 2006.01.21 07:06:00 - [22] Originally by: Kaylana Syi Actually Jim, @ BC 5 the ferox is one tuff kitten. In fact I think all the BCs have their use. If you can get over the speed and agility differences they are hard to match. She is right, the Ferox is actually the best passive tank in the game, it can regen faster thn raven or scorp with a passive load out. I didn't beleive this at first till I went into my hanger and fitted out all three ships. With BC at lvl 5 you pretty much have a passive tank just a little weaker then the cyclones large sb II and amp, but with all res about 70%. Its pretty badass, but takes maxed sheild skills and some implants to help.
Jim Raynor	Posted - 2006.01.21 07:11:00 - [23] Edited by: Jim Raynor on 21/01/2006 07:12:08 Originally by: Scalor Valentis Edited by: Scalor Valentis on 21/01/2006 05:43:21 Originally by: Jim Raynor I think HAC prices are pretty much retarded right now but I don't think battlecruisers can match a HAC.. Prophecy vs Zealot is about the only one that is iffy because the Prophecy almost makes up for its lack of firepower with the ability to simply mount more guns than the Zealot. But then look at Ferox vs Cerberus.. Ferox has no chance. What youa re basing this asumption on Jim? In RMR with the new tankking stufff, getting stupidly hig resistances on other-than-HAC is no longer an issue. Also give the recent BC cap increase, i say BC's are wel par with HACs. Granted, Hacs are more mobile, but given a skilled pilot, he can handle himself as well in HAC as in BC, and BC dont give so much fear of loosing it. /edit: i think the main reason peoples are paying stupid prices for HACs are the "im-no-noob-in-BC" complex, its like i got HAC lvl so i win assumption... And gues what, loosing hac to BC now more like probable then possible, due the fact more and more HAC pilots are now employing BC. The old asumption, if its in BC its nub" is no more true. I don't like the Ferox because it has 5 launchers and zero offensive bonuses for those hard points. Granted it's insurable, fairly durable, and not a horrible ship, but it only looks tempting because HAC prices are ridiculous at the moment. A Cerberus will smoke a Ferox, at least mine can. P.S. Seriously who has battlecruiser 5? Not many people, only reason to have battlecruiser 5 is to train for the new command ships. In that case you're talking vulture vs nighthawk vs cerberus, which would probably favor the command battlecruisers somewhat, though I think the cerberus is still quite competetive even against those ships. ------
Shadowsword	Posted - 2006.01.21 09:52:00 - [24] I'd say it depend of what you want to do with it. For pvp, a prophecy is in most cases a better choice than a Zealot, because of roughtly similar performances for a more affordable risk isk-wise, and less vulnerability to Nos. For pve, however, the speed of a Zealot (650+ m/s with an AB II and decent skills), and optimal bonus are invaluable. You'll make isk faster, and, unless you lose your ship, you can always sell it later for 130 millions or so...
Kyle Caldrel	Posted - 2006.01.21 10:08:00 - [25] Edited by: Kyle Caldrel on 21/01/2006 10:08:33 I dont get pll who think that BC is better then HAC.----the day I loose my HAC to BC, I'll quit eve--- HAC>BC, easy ******************************************************* What ya gonna do, when I come for you!?
Talos Darkhart	Posted - 2006.01.21 10:51:00 - [26] Edited by: Talos Darkhart on 21/01/2006 10:55:06 actually thanks to the nos drones you can just about run a viable xl booster setupon a cyclone. Of course if you come up against an enemy with lots of nos you be screwed
Kyle Caldrel	Posted - 2006.01.21 11:00:00 - [27] Originally by: Talos Darkhart Edited by: Talos Darkhart on 21/01/2006 10:55:06 actually thanks to the nos drones you can just about run a viable xl booster setupon a cyclone. Of course if you come up against an enemy with lots of nos you be screwed nos drones dont give you cap ******************************************************* What ya gonna do, when I come for you!?
Mimio	Posted - 2006.01.21 11:14:00 - [28] Price is the matter. If HAC will costs 50-70 kk, it will be as good as it was intended by CCP. otherwise stay out of HAC.
Waxau	Posted - 2006.01.21 19:37:00 - [29] ok lol...lets just get this straight..No ship is better than another. Some BC can pwn SOME HACs. It depends on the pilot and the situation. So please stop with all the Prophecy>Cerb I fly both and it will depend. Yes hacs are overpriced, still theyre sometimes better than BS or BC. And may i remind you all, the question was "Respond all you amarr pilots out there that can fly both :)" Not "A cerb can beat a proph or vise versa" In my opinion, a proph would be better if inexperienced in the PvP sector, however, Zealot will give you better 'street cred' with ure corp mates, and you'll feel stronger with it imo. More agile, faster etc. But then the cash problem is one you and only you alone can answer
Anjerrai Meloanis	Posted - 2006.01.21 19:54:00 - [30] Originally by: Kyle Caldrel Originally by: Talos Darkhart Edited by: Talos Darkhart on 21/01/2006 10:55:06 actually thanks to the nos drones you can just about run a viable xl booster setupon a cyclone. Of course if you come up against an enemy with lots of nos you be screwed nos drones dont give you cap because they are neut drones uh.

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