This is absurd, you get the bonus for free. Half-cap lasers are better than ACS, all else being equal.

Did some basic EFT warrioring for this ship using basic math. Ship Bonuses be damned.

Blaster Fit Gank Machine
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II

10MN Afterburner II
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II

Heavy Neutron Blaster II,Void M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II,Void M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II,Void M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II,Void M
Covert Ops Cloaking Device II

Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I

Needs a +3% CPU implant to fit.

Ogre II x5

Highlights
Dps with Following*

1. Void - 1127, 3.4+3.1km
2. CN Antimatter - 1098, 2.3+6.3km
3. Null - 1032, 6.3+8.8km

*Subtract 148dps if switching to Berserker II's.

EHP = ~35k give or take. 12k shield HP.

Speed = ~500m/s with AB. I am bad at mobility maths.

Given we weren't given regen stats on the capacitor, eyeballing it says it will be cap stable with everything running (It has more base cap than most Amarr cruisers).

Regardless, I think that is a bit ridiculous for a Cruiser sized hull. Even if the application range is horrible the fact that it is a cloaky means it gets to pick its fights. And this thing can probably beat out most battleships.

You don't see cloaky Legions because they have no damage bonus at all. If the Loki had its covops damage bonus replaced with a tracking bonus nobody would use them either. It's not because ACs are better than lasers. This ship has its full complement of bonuses, the laser one is just a free extra one.

Also, ACs deal less damage than lasers even close up, they track better which might make them apply DPS better depending on the target but if you're shooting a BC or higher the lasers will always do more DPS.

Yeah, if I was planning to decloak 3km away and try to gank that way, I'd definitely fit blasters. But it's just as viable to decloak 24km out with TDs and pew pew with lasers. ACs are mediocre at both roles so I don't see them being used much.

Eh, when ganking ratters it's going to come down to which ratters you're ganking. You definitely don't want blasters when you're hunting afktars and Tengus in Gurista/Serpentis/Angel space, just like you don't want lasers in Bloodraider/Sansha space.

You guys are right, this thread is definately the best place to discuss whether lazers are better than projectiles, in general, endlessly.

repairing the drones on the go is very important as well.

Keep hearing people cry "no laser bonuses? wtf? Needs more pew pew." I saw, wheres my hybrid turret bonus? I could use more dps on top that 1000. Go home.

When did it get 100% reduction to cloaking device targeting delay.

Just as an example, it will take this ship about 9 seconds to target a rupture. Based upon the information I can get at work at least.

That is with Signature Analsys to level 5 and Cloaking 5.

And congratulations, you just killed a ship that had around 2% the value of your own.

And all of that considered, a Vexor can easily get in that DPS range. A Vexor could probably kill this relatively easily, too.

If you want to do covops cloaky combat PvP, a Pilgrim would be a far better choice for you.[/b][/i]

That fact that you can choose your targets is what makes the 1.1k dps so extreme. No other ship with that kind of damage output has that ability.

THIS.

It's an exploration ship. Stop focusing on PvP. EFT DPS is NOT EFFECTIVE DPS.

EDIT: Shield gank fit anything, and that's exactly what it will be: Shield gank with high dps.

But nerfing a ship based on how it performs in a shield gank role is plain stupid. Because then for the actual purpose of the ship - long deployment exploration - it will be absolutely useless.

Not to mention that 900 DPS comes at the cost of a poor tank, less than 30k.

Nothing is perfect at everything, and the cruiser-whos-name-I-haven't-yet-learned is not an exception. The gank comes at the cost of tank, and ignoring an armor resist bonus.

Can we see how it is fitted t o do 1127 DPS please.

Put your fit where your mouth is. Put your fit here on the forums, that way we can see ALL the stats, including the ugly ones that blow your cries of "OP!!!" out of the water.

I'm HIGHLY skeptical about the EHP of this 1100 DPS fit. Without a damage control, and on a shield tanked ship with an armor bonus 35k EHP seems absurdly high. The fact that only an AB fits is also telling, you're pushing your ship to the limit of its fitting ability, and if you want to fit an MWD like any other PVP ship, you'd need an ancillary rig or smaller guns.

Basicly, you're trotting out the SOE cruiser version of the 1 million EHP Proteus. It can be fit up that way, but nobody does.


As for rat DPS, that DPS is on the ship when a cloaky Prot or cloaky Loki decloaks on it as well, so that means nothing.

Since I have nothing better to do than make psuedo fits for this ship since I don't have an EFT file for it. Have an Armor fit. Results of the tank were used via simulation off a Maller hull, which has the same bonuses but 100 less base armor. So roughly the same. We went with lasers since people were bitching at how "impractical" blasters are on a CLOAKY SHIP THAT CAN DICTATE INITIAL ENGAGEMENT RANGE.

[SoE Cruiser Armor]
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Damage Control II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II

10MN Microwarpdrive II
Stasis Webifier II
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
10mn Afterburner II
Balmer Series Tracking Disruptor I, Optimal Range Disruption Script

Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Covert Ops Cloaking Device II

Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I

Ogre II x5

1177/1184.5 PG (3% implant needed)
498/500 CPU

Note - I dual propped it because it is possible and some people are into that sort of thing. You can drop the AB and no longer need a 3% PG implant or throw on a 1600mm II (which is about 2k more ehp). You will need a CPU implant for most other mid slot EWAR effects that go above 27 cpu. Another Balmer TD will require a 1% CPU for example.

Highlights.
DPS with the following: Overheats in ()
Conflag - 862(886), 6.8+3.8km
Imp. Navy - 845(867), 6.8+3.8km
Scorch - 816(833), 20+3.8km

EHP (Maller Base) 40,508. Likely about 42k with that extra 100 base. For added fun use Slaves and get 99k EHP (102k with T2 plate). Since this will likely see most of its use in low-sec I don't see why not to use slaves.

Speed - I am again just ballparking, it has less mass than a Nomen, but rather poor base speed. So probably, 1600m/s MWD speed give or take, 400-450m/s AB. Doubtful its cap stable with everything running, but with a Scram and a Web you can shut off the MWD when you get close and not give a damn.

[snip]

=====

I really have nothing better to do than sit here and make stupid fits for a stupid ship that really should not go live in its current state.

As can the Gila

800 DPS at 20km? Yeah. With Ogres.

By the time your Ogres reach the target, you will be dead. Those lasers do virtually no damage. If your target has the slightest ability to move, or even kite, you will be dead easily. The AAR fit outputs a pathetic 350 DPS tank at the maximum.

Have fun with that tracking, by the way.

Again, EFT DPS IS NOT ACTUAL, EFFECTIVE DPS.

There's nothing wrong with the drone bay for the purpose this ship was made. Quite a few T1 cruisers could make short work of this thing (Stabber comes to mind).

When you drop down to Hammerheads it only gets about ~460 DPS - which is actually reasonable.

Some people here don't want this ship to have ANY combat capabilities - that's weird, because this ship's intended role IS combat exploration.

And when you see the price of this in the market being ~500M ISK+, without fittings, tell me how much people are going to be using this in PvP.

And by the time the lock time delay timer is over from decloaking, the Stabber will be well out of range.

Also, why compare this to ships from lower classes and then call it OP?

I can see this losing to a Cynabal and Vigilant rather easily, if not also Ashimmu and Gila.

Yeah, but if you're going to fight up close anyway (no longpoint), why lasers? Autocannons work just fine here and give you selectable damage types, while Blasters pack more punch for ~ the same capuse

This. Also, as I said earlier, why are people comparing ships across tiers?

There's nothing wrong with the drone bay for the purpose this ship was made. Quite a few T1 cruisers could make short work of this thing (Stabber comes to mind).

As it's an exploration ship, and not a PvP ship, the resist bonuses are needed for PvE.

There might be some good in reducing to 2 hardpoints, but not until CCP adds a laser bonus (eg. optimal).

Surely that'll just make fitting it annoying for both PvP and PvE?

Sure, but if you drop the CPU too much you force "EVERYONE and all play styles" to make the choice between an okay fit or a good fit with a co-processor II.

These fittings you've been throwing around have 500 CPU. The actual CPU is 400.

This thread would be a lot less painful if you all learned to read. Especially Nyancat.

Seems like a glass cannon. What happens if you try to put some tank on it? How much EHP does it have? Speed?

849 DPS does seem like a bit much, I agree. But the fit itself is bad - it would die relatively easily to any kiting cruiser.

That said, a 5% per level optimal and damage bonus seems much better on 2 turrets.

Especially with the targeting delay and upcoming warp changes. Anything smaller than a battlecruiser will warp away by the time you can lock; everything else will kill you. Also, good luck with that absolutely pathetic tank.

Alright, after a lot of feedback and discussion I'm going to share what will likely be the last set of tweaks to the Stratios and Astero before launch.

We feel that while there are significant weaknesses in the cruiser that do balance it against major abuse, it's simply too strong in its current state. The combination of the covert cloak, black ops portal access and extremely high damage potential make for a ship that does a bit more than we are comfortable with. To tone it down slightly we are going to lower the drone bandwidth to 100mb/s and the drone bay to 400m3.

The ship will still have very high damage potential and will certainly still be very powerful overall.

This also makes me feel better about some other small changes that improve the ship, so we'll also be increasing the virus strength bonus to +10 and changing the laser cap use bonus to a medium energy turret optimal range bonus of 50%. We will also extend the virus strength bonus to the Astero.

Please post with feedback, but keep in mind that these changes are made after processing tons of feedback from the forums, my visit to EVE Vegas and a lot of internal discussion.

Thanks

I am not sure why you guys are so hung up on the whole "100 mbps drone bandwidth" thing. So what if it can only launch 4 sentries? How does this negatively affect anyone? I mean, I guess if you were to dedicate a character to exclusively flying this ship and had trained Drones 5, you might find some way to take some level of offense over having trained Drones 5 unnecessarily, but at rank 1 it's not exactly a whole boatload of training time at 256k SP.

This change was necessary and brings the ship more in line with competing options in the Sin and Ishtar. If you can't find a use for a covert cloaking cruiser with a myriad of effective gank and hotdrop fits doing 600-700 DPS across a wide berth of effective application ranges, I think you need to close the Proteus window on EFT and remove the whiteout on your monitor over the "weapon range" column and think a little more about it.

Um, actually, 6/10s as suggested in the OP.

until then I don't quite think this ship is Ishtar levels of performance.

It was stated the ships could do 6/10 complexes, now they barley break the tank of most of the overseers and will take in close to almost 4 minutes to chew through armor and then it still has structure to take out.

But using the ship how it was described only makes us themeparkers huh?

more looking at being uncloaked in a PVE fit ship for that long just to get through the ships armor. That is not any taking any other content for the site into consideration.

I am sure you know that covert ships are squishier than non covert ships, then you tack on rat specific tanking and suddenly any Pirate with half a brain will be able to take you out in seconds.

Also, I for one don't give 2 ***** about Isk/hr

Never said anything about wanting to blitz 6/10s not once.

Talks about balance. compares up broken as hell tengu.

Edit: But it would seem that soloing a 6/10 was ether a stretch or was fit with faction and deadspace modules.

If we get to the point that it's better to be in an Ishtar for completion times...

Most people will probably stick to their Tengus and Ishtars.

What is the difference between a covert ops ishtar and a cloaky fit exploration drone proteus? because that is pretty much what it is at the minute.

I just dont want the dumb laser bonus and an extra mid to fit both hacking mods would be good.

the drone system and covert system occupy the same subsystem on the proteus. this is not a thing.

How is a covert ops drone proteus going to be different to a covert ops ishtar?

This new ship IS the covert ops drone proteus.

drone proteus

CCP lets get these on sisi, come on