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Braenwyn
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Posted - 2006.01.22 12:23:00 -
[1]
What's wrong with this setup:
top: 3x Dual Light Beam II with multifrequency crystals 1x upgraded 'limos' standard missile bay with bloodclaw light missiles middle: 1x gistii type A afterburner 1x F-B10 Nominal Capacitor Regenerator 1x x5 Prototype I Engine Enervator
Low: 1x True Sansha Nano Adaptive Nano Plating 1x Microcell Nanite Adaptive Membrane I Small Armor Repairer II
combat mode: orbit target at 8000 m with 600m/s
I got attacked in a belt while hunting npc rats. In 25 seconds my ship got blasted to smithereens. I don't understand how this can happen in only 25 seconds.
Combat Analyser log:
Quote: Duration: 00:00:25
My Weapons Used
Bloodclaw Light Missile Dual Light Beam Laser II
Enemies Attacked
Enemy (Thorax)
Damage Done: 1228,80 Damage Received: 2150,10
Any ideas are welcome :)
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LUKEC
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Posted - 2006.01.22 12:28:00 -
[2]
with that setup everything is wrong, because u use wrong ship.
Vengeance < punisher or any other amarr inty
It suck and ofc. well fitted cruiser will kill you.
I use no guns... i smack to death. |
Asestorian
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Posted - 2006.01.22 12:29:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Asestorian on 22/01/2006 12:28:58 Well.. Thorax is a meeaaann ship if set-up right.. which is probably the reason you died.. horribly.
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dalman
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Posted - 2006.01.22 12:30:00 -
[4]
Well, that's not even 100 dps you're taking... Your worst resistance is thermal... So, I'd assume the thorax were using hammerheads = medium thermal drones. And, at 600 m/s @ 8km range, it's highly possible he could track you and hit you, no matter if were using medium blasters or small rails as turrets.
Drink up, shoot in. Let the beating begin. Distributor of pain. Your loss becomes my gain...
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Braenwyn
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Posted - 2006.01.22 12:35:00 -
[5]
He got 5 vespa's on me :(
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Brevis
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Posted - 2006.01.22 12:35:00 -
[6]
You need orbit at 500m , your ab must be on all the time, first kill drones,later try to kill rax.(i don't know if it's possible to win,but you would live longer than 25s)
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Esaam DeVries
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Posted - 2006.01.22 13:00:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Esaam DeVries on 22/01/2006 13:02:02 Well, I would say -not that I'm necessarly right- but your resistance setup is not very good. The true sansha adaptative nano plating is nice but you should fit a armor thermic hardener.
Do you have armor compensations skills ? what's you AF skill level ?
A vengeance, well fitted and with the right skills is a hell of a tank.
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Ascy
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Posted - 2006.01.22 13:04:00 -
[8]
This setup of your Vengeance is awfull...it sucks
try this setup
3 Medium Pulse Laser 2 1 Malkuth Missile Launcher
1 T2 AB 1 Webber 1 Named 20km Warp Disrupter (a dirsupter which needs no so much cpu)
1 Small Repper t2 1 Thermal Hardener 1 Micro Auxilliary Power Core
with Assault Ships Skill 4 or 5 you have a nice Cap Recharge and you can tank for a long time :)
But a rax is dangerous for every Frig/inty/assault frig
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Braenwyn
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Posted - 2006.01.22 16:30:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Ascy This setup of your Vengeance is awfull...it sucks
try this setup
3 Medium Pulse Laser 2 1 Malkuth Missile Launcher
1 T2 AB 1 Webber 1 Named 20km Warp Disrupter (a dirsupter which needs no so much cpu)
1 Small Repper t2 1 Thermal Hardener 1 Micro Auxilliary Power Core
with Assault Ships Skill 4 or 5 you have a nice Cap Recharge and you can tank for a long time :)
But a rax is dangerous for every Frig/inty/assault frig
I can't fit this setup - short on CPU ( even with a te-2100 launcher which takes less cpu then a Malkuth), so I have to drop the warp disruptor or webber. Can't even fit anything else that's remotely useful in the 3rd mid slot then. That leaves a cap recharger, that's always handy.
Greetz Brae
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Braenwyn
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Posted - 2006.01.22 16:44:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Esaam DeVries Edited by: Esaam DeVries on 22/01/2006 13:07:41 Edited by: Esaam DeVries on 22/01/2006 13:02:02 Well, I would say -not that I'm necessarly right- but your resistance setup is not very good. The true sansha adaptative nano plating is nice but you should fit a armor thermic hardener.
Do you have armor compensations skills ? what's you AF skill level ?
A vengeance, well fitted and with the right skills is a hell of a tank.
Edit : I forgot to say that the cap recharger is not required with a vengeance. You should train Energy systems operation and Energy management. With the 5% cap recharge bonus per AF level the vengeance has, it's more than enough.
I usually fit a E5 nos on my last high slot. This allows me to run the AB plus the thermic hardener and the small armor repairer 24/24 even is nosed by a large nosferatus.
skills: Assault Ships: 4 EM Armor Comp: 2 Kinetic Armor Comp: 2 Thermal Armor Comp: 3 Explosive Armor Comp: 1 Energy Systems Operation: 3 Energy Management: 2 (working on 3)
Need some work here then :)
Greetz Brae
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Chackle
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Posted - 2006.01.22 17:07:00 -
[11]
Step 1: Sell your vengeance Step 2: Buy a retribution Step 3: Put on Medium pulse II instead of sissy Dual Light beams/lasers (those are for inties :) )
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Esaam DeVries
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Posted - 2006.01.22 17:31:00 -
[12]
Retribution is a nice mission runner. But because its limitation to 1 med slot, it's not that great for pvp (in my humble opinion). |
slip66
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Posted - 2006.01.22 17:40:00 -
[13]
Edited by: slip66 on 22/01/2006 17:42:38 Like they said you ran into a thorax. It's not like that is a weak cruiser. Even with the right skills & setup it is a serious challange to any AF let alone a vengence.
If you just want to rat mostly, use the retribution. It has a much better tank and dmg. The only advantage the vengence has over it is it's more usefull in gangs.
1 mid slot ftl
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Turiya Flesharrower
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Posted - 2006.01.22 18:02:00 -
[14]
Your biggest mistake is using short-tanged weaponry on a ship with a bonus to laser range. If you fit beam lasers to the Vengeance and use Aurora crystals, you can push your optimal up to 40km; allowing you to take apart enemy frigates and inties at extreme range.
Setup:
Highs: 3x Medium Beam Laser II 1x TE-2100 Standard Missile Launcher
Mids: Fleeting Progressive Warp Scrambler I Fleeting Progressive Webifier Barton Reactor Capacitor
Lows: 1x Micro Auxilliary Power Core 1x Small Armor Repairer II 1x Energized Thermic Membrane II
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Braenwyn
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Posted - 2006.01.22 18:29:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Braenwyn on 22/01/2006 18:28:46
Originally by: Turiya Flesharrower If you fit beam lasers to the Vengeance and use Aurora crystals, you can push your optimal up to 40km
Are Aurora crystals on the market yet ? I've never seen any for sale. They also have avery bad rate of fire, and a high volatility :( Not sure these are supposed to be used at all
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Weirda
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Posted - 2006.01.22 18:34:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Weirda on 22/01/2006 18:35:07 take the afterburner off that thing and fit it right...
that is not a good setup.
you would be killing a lot faster if you fit those same mods on retribution. vengeance not good for npc... __ Weirda Assault Ship need 4th Bonus and More!
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Braenwyn
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Posted - 2006.01.22 19:15:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Weirda Edited by: Weirda on 22/01/2006 18:35:07 take the afterburner off that thing and fit it right...
that is not a good setup.
you would be killing a lot faster if you fit those same mods on retribution. vengeance not good for npc...
What would be "right" in your eyes ? And Do you know how slow the vengeance is without afterburner ??
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LUKEC
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Posted - 2006.01.22 19:29:00 -
[18]
Yes, Weirda knows.
And tbh, using propulsion mods on AF is waste of slot.
I use no guns... i smack to death. |
Weirda
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Posted - 2006.01.22 19:43:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Braenwyn
What would be "right" in your eyes ? And Do you know how slow the vengeance is without afterburner ??
well - sorry if rude. weirda is confused by you post in the first place (weirda pretty slow - even for minmatar... )
do you want to a) NPC in this ship and make it more resiliant to pirating? or do you want to b) kill pirate in this ship?
thinking now that you are looking for a.
if a... then get a retribution... it does MUCH more damage and can fit ab and a tank without gimping it damage. you will be able to 'scare off' a lot of pirate (depending on their setup) because you can do near 200dps. you cannot hold them though and they will run. if they are in a fast ship they will get under you guns and kill you.
setup a: retribution 4x medium pulse 2, 1xautotargetter (for the extra max locked bonus, don't ever activate it for god sake) 1x afterburner (because npcing is boring without one) 1xsmall armor rep 2, 2x adaptive nano plate 2, 2x heat sink 2
you will get between 160-200 dps with this setup with multifrequency depending on skill. you will not be able to run rep forever but you won't need to ever as long as you ORBIT you targets... only running repper on approach. weirda have hunted endlessly in 0.0 with this setup and have never met spawn couldn't break... though have gone on bathroom break while trying to break some....
ship b fit your (new) vengeance as such: 3x dual light beam II, 1x nos (this is only for ppl that try to get in close and suck on you - you will not be attempting to use it - it is a counter to nos setups of sorts) 1x20km disruptor, 1x really good web, 1x whatever (not ab or propulsion mod - be creative, think 'control') 1xsmall armor rep 2, 1x energized adaptive nano 2, 1x 200mm plate (titanium or crystaline for lowest cpu use)
this is a great setup and can tank FOREVER. you can engage multiple target easily with it and if you use you third mid wisely, you can control many situation.
both? you cannot do both which is why it seem that you have a vengeance for npcing rather then just a retri. vengeance dps SUCKS... but it can win fights by outlasting opponent. if you try to make it do more damage, it tanks worse and dps STILL SUCKS. if you try to make it go faster, it tanks worse, does less damage... and well you get the picture. that is why you died. you had the worst of every world (even with some nice mods in there).
and yes - know very well its speed... do a LOT of 0.0 travel without instas in non-ab vengeance... all the time... __ Weirda Assault Ship need 4th Bonus and More!
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Braenwyn
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Posted - 2006.01.22 20:57:00 -
[20]
I used this setup mainly to fight NPC's, but I thought it would be great against players that would come harass me. That proved a bit hard :)
I tried another setup today, with:
High slots: 3x medium pulse lasers II 1x te-2100 standar launcher.
Mid Slots: 1x Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor (webber) 1x Cold-gas I Arcjet thruster 1x Passive Targeter I (couldn't fit anything else there with the hogs in high slots)
Low Slots: 1x Armor Thermic Hardening I 1x Reactor Control Unit 1 (can't use auxilliary yet) 1x Small Armor repper II
When I met a group of 3 Sansha's cannibals, I almost bit to dust. They hit me so hard that is wasn't funny anymore, and tanking was impossible.. I ran out of power too quickly, and could not keep cap up at all. Later it was exactly the same with a group of 2 Sansha Devourers and 2 slavehunters. Groups I had no trouble with before.
So, I dropped the armor thermic hardener again, and fitted a Radioisotope adaptive nano (15% resist across the board) and a fixed parallel link capacitor. That works way better on those rats.
I still wonder if I get better damage from the pulse lasers over the dual lights, because they miss an awful lot: around 60% is misses. Average damage aroudn 20 per shot. That is pathetic
I'll keep fiddling, and buy a retribution for comparison even though I do not see yet why the DPS for the retributution would be any higher.
Greetz Brae
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LUKEC
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Posted - 2006.01.22 21:13:00 -
[21]
If you don't see why dps from retribution would be higher, then: a- you don't know what dps means b- you are beeing sarcastic c- i won't say it here
I use no guns... i smack to death. |
Braenwyn
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Posted - 2006.01.22 21:33:00 -
[22]
Originally by: LUKEC If you don't see why dps from retribution would be higher, then: a- you don't know what dps means b- you are beeing sarcastic c- i won't say it here
Lol - I know what dps means What I don't see is why the same guns, with the same stats would have higher dps on different ships with the same bonuses ... is that so weird ??
therefor, I think c) applies here And then, of course, I must bow tou your uberness in knowledge and ask to explain it to me
Greetz Brae
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Angel Destroyer
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Posted - 2006.01.22 21:47:00 -
[23]
On my old main char that I sold I tanked and in mid i used multi spec to jam
I fought lots of cruisers and was able to keep target jammed before cap started to run out, then again i was using a ship not meant for jamming so eh
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Weirda
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Posted - 2006.01.22 22:31:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Braenwyn
edit: oops - 1 extra high slot would mean higher dps hehe
Greetz Brae
there is also a damage bonus on the retribution... that is not on the vengeance... __ Weirda Assault Ship need 4th Bonus and More!
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Braenwyn
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Posted - 2006.01.22 22:41:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Weirda
there is also a damage bonus on the retribution... that is not on the vengeance...
Lol, dunno what I have been smoking, but I missed that too
Perhaps I'd better go make sudoku's in stead of flying space ships
Greetz, Brae
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Joerd Toastius
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Posted - 2006.01.23 11:27:00 -
[26]
And really, really get those cap skills up ASAP. You're flying Amarr AFs with level 2 cap skills?
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