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Can carriers fly in hi-sec space ?

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Helen Tiger	Posted - 2006.01.24 12:55:00 - [1] Just wondering if I could use them in Empire space for running missions, supporting mining operations... These ships seem very powerful, even though I'd need lots of training to fly one (and I have 26 million SP) Before I commit to getting one I'd really like to know if they have any limitations. Not being able to go anywhere I want is too big a limitation considering the cost of the ship. What do you think ? Helen
Chain Gang	Posted - 2006.01.24 12:58:00 - [2] Sorry .4 and below .... There was talk about "removing their ability" to asign fighters and then allow them into "high sec" space
Testy Mctest	Posted - 2006.01.24 12:58:00 - [3] Cant be built in highsec either, so no workarounds :( The Eve Guild Wars Project!
Helen Tiger	Posted - 2006.01.24 13:13:00 - [4] Edited by: Helen Tiger on 24/01/2006 13:13:59 I find this stupid... why would anyone pay over a billion isk (counting fighters) for a ship that can't go everywhere ? The way things are, the only possibility for using fighter drones is to go in low-sec / no-sec space, where you can get your ass PvP'ed. That means carriers simply aren't meant for solo players. Very few can afford to risk that much money. Couldn't they just brand them as "corp only" ? edit : can anyone tell me or link to the reason why CCP thought capital ships shouldn't be allowed in high-sec space ? I fail to understand. Helen
Testy Mctest	Posted - 2006.01.24 13:16:00 - [5] Edited by: Testy Mctest on 24/01/2006 13:16:59 Many reasons could be guessed at - not wanting them involved in empire wars, increased lag from drones on hub systems, whatever - but at the end of the day, CCP want us all to move to 0.0 permanently and making some of the interesting ships only relevant there does this. The Eve Guild Wars Project!
Alain Josviar	Posted - 2006.01.24 15:59:00 - [6] Originally by: Helen Tiger Edited by: Helen Tiger on 24/01/2006 13:13:59 I find this stupid... why would anyone pay over a billion isk (counting fighters) for a ship that can't go everywhere ? The way things are, the only possibility for using fighter drones is to go in low-sec / no-sec space, where you can get your ass PvP'ed. That means carriers simply aren't meant for solo players. Very few can afford to risk that much money. Couldn't they just brand them as "corp only" ? edit : can anyone tell me or link to the reason why CCP thought capital ships shouldn't be allowed in high-sec space ? I fail to understand. Helen All capital ships were intended to be corp only and a couple are intended to be alliance only. Actually, all ships are intended to fill a role in fleet operations not solo operations.
Valea Silpha	Posted - 2006.01.24 16:22:00 - [7] It also keeps empire wars 'conventional' ... ie no bubbles, no smartmombs, nothing except direct ship to ship combat, which is how a lot of smaller corps like it. In empire its all about getting the individual tactics right. Out in 0.0 with captial ships and such, it comes down to getting your fleet in the right place. Different styles of combat for different sizes of organisation. I like the differance. Also it means that one corp having a dread or a carrier or whatever doesn't I-WIN an empire war.
Malthros Zenobia	Posted - 2006.01.24 21:53:00 - [8] Originally by: Helen Tiger Edited by: Helen Tiger on 24/01/2006 13:13:59 I find this stupid... why would anyone pay over a billion isk (counting fighters) for a ship that can't go everywhere ? For the same reason they'd pay 15 or 50bil for the same thing: Because it's powerful, and there's more to EVE than highsec space. Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu I'm probably one of the biggest Bush fanboys in Eve... This is like, Darth Vader, can't-reach-climax-without-killing-a-puppy evil.
Tensa	Posted - 2006.01.24 22:42:00 - [9] um, you do realize that there is alot more low sec and no security space than high security right? Those ships are mainly for big fleet battles..not running lvl 4 missions. Don't need to make those more possible than they are.
Helen Tiger	Posted - 2006.01.25 09:57:00 - [10] I agree, Tensa, but I was mainly looking for variety. I've flown most of the ships in Eve that looked cool to me (even trained to pilot cruisers and use weapons from all 4 races) I've been in Eve for about 2 years now, so my interest into new ships has much to do with varying pleasures. And a new ship class is even more tempting. So I got a bit upset when I realized if I wanted to try any capital ship I'd have to move. I can live with low-sec space, it's certainly less dangerous with a capital ship and over 26 million SP. I guess I'll just have to give it a try... Helen

Ithildin	Posted - 2006.01.25 10:11:00 - [11] Dreadnoughts can one-volley battleships and tank CONCORD for as long as they have Stronthium Clathrates in cargo hold. Look at it from a griefers point of view - how would YOU exploit the situation? WTB: Galllente/Amarr faction BShip Visit the MC
Sokra	Posted - 2006.01.25 10:44:00 - [12] Originally by: Ithildin Dreadnoughts can one-volley battleships and tank CONCORD for as long as they have Stronthium Clathrates in cargo hold. Look at it from a griefers point of view - how would YOU exploit the situation? ehmmm, this has been tested on the testserver by a friend in an 0.5 system, he went down in siegemode befor you could say **** and he had core X-Type stuff equiped, so Concord will own you befor your Strontium runs out
Lord WarATron	Posted - 2006.01.25 10:52:00 - [13] I will be buying a carrier for personal use on Complexes and Lvl4 missions in lowsec, as well as POS defence. But what I would like to see is the ability for the carrier to enter highsec, though perhaps not be able to use its drones there. With that said, if that happened, people would snap up carriers left right and center for lvl4 super tanking and get an alt to slowly blow the crap out of everything. Last I checked, the Ammar Carrier could in theory, tank full aggros of all lvl4's on a single capital rep, assuming he had filled his lows with t2 adaptives. --- Slot 10 Akemons Modified 'Noble'Zet 5000 implant +8% Armour FREE
Twilight Moon	Posted - 2006.01.25 11:14:00 - [14] So, if you did have one, you could slap a cloaking device on it and camp in a bit of 0.4 space that is known to be frequented by gate camping griefers? I'd buy one, just to kill the bugger in that Ferox who thought it would be "fun" to pick on a newbie in a a Vigil....
Goberth Ludwig	Posted - 2006.01.25 11:14:00 - [15] Originally by: Helen Tiger I agree, Tensa, but I was mainly looking for variety. I've flown most of the ships in Eve that looked cool to me (even trained to pilot cruisers and use weapons from all 4 races) I've been in Eve for about 2 years now, so my interest into new ships has much to do with varying pleasures. And a new ship class is even more tempting. So I got a bit upset when I realized if I wanted to try any capital ship I'd have to move. I can live with low-sec space, it's certainly less dangerous with a capital ship and over 26 million SP. I guess I'll just have to give it a try... Helen right, goto low sec if you havent in 2 years, its not that bad u know - Gob (also known as Admiral Goberius)
Twin blade	Posted - 2006.01.25 11:56:00 - [16] If they allow carrier's in high sec they need to use stargate's and not be allowed to do level 4 missions other wise its to good.
Ithildin	Posted - 2006.01.25 13:29:00 - [17] Edited by: Ithildin on 25/01/2006 13:31:29 Originally by: Sokra Originally by: Ithildin Dreadnoughts can one-volley battleships and tank CONCORD for as long as they have Stronthium Clathrates in cargo hold. Look at it from a griefers point of view - how would YOU exploit the situation? ehmmm, this has been tested on the testserver by a friend in an 0.5 system, he went down in siegemode befor you could say **** and he had core X-Type stuff equiped, so Concord will own you befor your Strontium runs out Give Golan Trevize a call. He died in Jita on test server only because his cap ran out. Edit: actually, he might've just tanked faction drones (i.e. police, faction, and customs agents). But I'm fairly confident that he's neither lying nor misstaken. WTB: Galllente/Amarr faction BShip Visit the MC
Fabiusbile	Posted - 2006.01.25 14:08:00 - [18] Originally by: Twin blade If they allow carrier's in high sec they need to use stargate's and not be allowed to do level 4 missions other wise its to good. If i remember corectly the original design on the carrier (not mothership) was that it could use gates and enter empire space but then for some reason they stopped it entering empire and the ability to use gates which prompted a mass outcry from the eve public which in turn prompted ouver to state that he would look at getting the carrier back into empire but with the fighter asigning nerfed so that the carrier couldn't omgwtfpwn ppl in empire and not get concorded by using remote fighters which alot of ppl thought was acceptable, unfortunatly we still are waiting for an official responce from ouver about if this is going ahead or not. i may have it slightly wrong but then i'm only human.
Brady	Posted - 2006.01.25 14:57:00 - [19] If i remember corectly the original design on the carrier (not mothership) was that it could use gates and enter empire space but then for some reason they stopped it entering empire and the ability to use gates which prompted a mass outcry from the eve public which in turn prompted ouver to state that he would look at getting the carrier back into empire but with the fighter asigning nerfed so that the carrier couldn't omgwtfpwn ppl in empire and not get concorded by using remote fighters which alot of ppl thought was acceptable, unfortunatly we still are waiting for an official responce from ouver about if this is going ahead or not. i may have it slightly wrong but then i'm only human. Yep, this is what Oveur said, though I'd love to get a response from a dev whether it is going ahead or not. Would make empire wars alot more interesting. Problem in a capital ship in 0.0 (assuming its not a login trap), you can see the blob coming to get you. So much more ambush potential in empire.
Keta Min	Posted - 2006.01.25 16:27:00 - [20] Originally by: Brady If i remember corectly the original design on the carrier (not mothership) was that it could use gates and enter empire space but then for some reason they stopped it entering empire and the ability to use gates which prompted a mass outcry from the eve public which in turn prompted ouver to state that he would look at getting the carrier back into empire but with the fighter asigning nerfed so that the carrier couldn't omgwtfpwn ppl in empire and not get concorded by using remote fighters which alot of ppl thought was acceptable, unfortunatly we still are waiting for an official responce from ouver about if this is going ahead or not. i may have it slightly wrong but then i'm only human. Yep, this is what Oveur said, though I'd love to get a response from a dev whether it is going ahead or not. Would make empire wars alot more interesting. Problem in a capital ship in 0.0 (assuming its not a login trap), you can see the blob coming to get you. So much more ambush potential in empire. no it would actually suck if that happened. we dont need an oversized domi but a ship with unique tactical abilities like assigning fighters.

R3DSKULL	Posted - 2006.01.25 16:34:00 - [21] HMM well i see alot of people say that they cannot pass above .4 but have pics of me snowballing a minmatar carrier in .9 space. SO i think they can travel there. unless this changed somewhere along the lines.
Fabiusbile	Posted - 2006.01.25 17:15:00 - [22] Originally by: R3DSKULL HMM well i see alot of people say that they cannot pass above .4 but have pics of me snowballing a minmatar carrier in .9 space. SO i think they can travel there. unless this changed somewhere along the lines. oooo pics please
R3DSKULL	Posted - 2006.01.25 17:40:00 - [23] Edited by: R3DSKULL on 25/01/2006 17:41:52 Edited by: R3DSKULL on 25/01/2006 17:41:24 screenies as requested and this is in ELGOI 0.9 http://img86.imageshack.us/img86/1384/200512240434228ly.png http://img86.imageshack.us/img86/2884/200512240448571zc.png http://img86.imageshack.us/img86/8121/200512240450203mj.png u will have to cut and paste i got to run and dont have time to hyperlink ill fix it later on. SOZ
Meridius	Posted - 2006.01.25 17:50:00 - [24] Originally by: Ithildin Edited by: Ithildin on 25/01/2006 13:31:29 Originally by: Sokra Originally by: Ithildin Dreadnoughts can one-volley battleships and tank CONCORD for as long as they have Stronthium Clathrates in cargo hold. Look at it from a griefers point of view - how would YOU exploit the situation? ehmmm, this has been tested on the testserver by a friend in an 0.5 system, he went down in siegemode befor you could say **** and he had core X-Type stuff equiped, so Concord will own you befor your Strontium runs out Give Golan Trevize a call. He died in Jita on test server only because his cap ran out. Edit: actually, he might've just tanked faction drones (i.e. police, faction, and customs agents). But I'm fairly confident that he's neither lying nor misstaken. I tanked concord in Yulai outside there HQ with all sentries firing at me. Tanking concord without sentries shouldn't be an issue. ________________________________________________________
Keta Min	Posted - 2006.01.25 18:06:00 - [25] Originally by: R3DSKULL Edited by: R3DSKULL on 25/01/2006 17:41:52 Edited by: R3DSKULL on 25/01/2006 17:41:24 screenies as requested and this is in ELGOI 0.9 http://img86.imageshack.us/img86/1384/200512240434228ly.png http://img86.imageshack.us/img86/2884/200512240448571zc.png http://img86.imageshack.us/img86/8121/200512240450203mj.png u will have to cut and paste i got to run and dont have time to hyperlink ill fix it later on. SOZ that's not a carrier
Cairo dog	Posted - 2006.01.25 18:14:00 - [26] Originally by: R3DSKULL Edited by: R3DSKULL on 25/01/2006 17:41:52 Edited by: R3DSKULL on 25/01/2006 17:41:24 screenies as requested and this is in ELGOI 0.9 http://img86.imageshack.us/img86/1384/200512240434228ly.png http://img86.imageshack.us/img86/2884/200512240448571zc.png http://img86.imageshack.us/img86/8121/200512240450203mj.png u will have to cut and paste i got to run and dont have time to hyperlink ill fix it later on. SOZ Thats a bloody freighter. ------------------------------------- Yes, the signature was done in paint :P (The ship is a Deimos btw)
DarknessInc	Posted - 2006.01.25 18:18:00 - [27] Edited by: DarknessInc on 25/01/2006 18:22:20 Originally by: Keta Min Originally by: R3DSKULL Edited by: R3DSKULL on 25/01/2006 17:41:52 Edited by: R3DSKULL on 25/01/2006 17:41:24 screenies as requested and this is in ELGOI 0.9 http://img86.imageshack.us/img86/1384/200512240434228ly.png http://img86.imageshack.us/img86/2884/200512240448571zc.png http://img86.imageshack.us/img86/8121/200512240450203mj.png u will have to cut and paste i got to run and dont have time to hyperlink ill fix it later on. SOZ that's not a carrier Ohh its a 'carrier' alright. A Carrier of trade goods, minerals and ships. BUT IT IS NOT a "Carrier" class ship. Hehehe. Thats the Fenrir. its a Freighter. Tho I prefer the providence But to speak on Carrier & High Sec. The carrier is roughly around the size of a Freighter, which is allowed to use Stargates. Dreadnoughts cant use Stargates cuz their too big, so seeing as Carriers are small enough to use them, they should be able to. And Carriers remote-controlling fighter drones, if a player did that, they would inialize a aggro counter, not allowing them to dock. Concord would go and blow up your carrier, instead of your fighters, leaving them dead in space for someone to pick up :) ever try attacking someone in high sec with drones? Concord goes after u, not your drones
DarknessInc	Posted - 2006.01.25 18:22:00 - [28] But to speak on Carrier & High Sec. The carrier is roughly around the size of a Freighter, which is allowed to use Stargates. Dreadnoughts cant use Stargates cuz their too big, so seeing as Carriers are small enough to use them, they should be able to. And Carriers remote-controlling fighter drones, if a player did that, they would inialize a aggro counter, not allowing them to dock. Concord would go and blow up your carrier, instead of your fighters, leaving them dead in space for someone to pick up :) ever try attacking someone in high sec with drones? Concord goes after u, not your drones
Lord WarATron	Posted - 2006.01.25 18:28:00 - [29] Carrier & High Sec will increase sales of carriers. In the end, just about every lvl4 mission runner that has a friend will charge in with a super tank. Ammar Carrier with 6 t2 adaptives, 1 captital repair should in theory be able to tank full aggros of all lvl4's But is that a really bad thing? I dont think so. You know why? Well, the carrier is the only capital ship that just about any eve player can genuinly aim for. Dreads have limited usefulness, Motherships and Titans, well nuff said. But the carrier is the true replacement for the battleship user. --- Slot 10 Akemons Modified 'Noble'Zet 5000 implant +8% Armour FREE
Keta Min	Posted - 2006.01.25 18:34:00 - [30] Originally by: Lord WarATron Carrier & High Sec will increase sales of carriers. In the end, just about every lvl4 mission runner that has a friend will charge in with a super tank. Ammar Carrier with 6 t2 adaptives, 1 captital repair should in theory be able to tank full aggros of all lvl4's But is that a really bad thing? I dont think so. You know why? Well, the carrier is the only capital ship that just about any eve player can genuinly aim for. Dreads have limited usefulness, Motherships and Titans, well nuff said. But the carrier is the true replacement for the battleship user. carriers should be never used for highsec mission running. they should stay out of 0.5 and be a gang pvp asset.

Xune	Posted - 2006.01.25 20:59:00 - [31] The day i see carryer¦s in 1.0 doing level 4 misions is the day i giv up beliving the dev¦s are not completly nuts.
Malthros Zenobia	Posted - 2006.01.26 00:02:00 - [32] Originally by: Sokra Originally by: Ithildin Dreadnoughts can one-volley battleships and tank CONCORD for as long as they have Stronthium Clathrates in cargo hold. Look at it from a griefers point of view - how would YOU exploit the situation? ehmmm, this has been tested on the testserver by a friend in an 0.5 system, he went down in siegemode befor you could say ** and he had core X-Type stuff equiped, so Concord will own you befor your Strontium runs out Now replace those x-types with capital sized mods that are several times stronger. I can't imagine that even CONCORD would take down a person with the proper pirate set/implants, capital SB+amp +invuln fields, unless they have a special exponential damage effect. Originally by:** Istvaan Shogaatsu I'm probably one of the biggest Bush fanboys in Eve... This is like, Darth Vader, can't-reach-climax-without-killing-a-puppy evil.
Erotic Irony	Posted - 2006.01.26 01:45:00 - [33] Generously using this db we can see that a single Concord police commander has: DPS: 880hp/s (EM: 0hp/s, Expl: 0hp/s, Kin: 480hp/s, Therm: 400hp/s) I'm not certain of the CONCORD hierarchy but wouldn't a gang of CONCORD, which has close to the same DPS of a station ultima (1600dps), inevitably overwhelm even a dread tank? And if not by pure damage then perhaps by number; doesn't CONCORD summon reinforcements periodically too?
JamesTalon	Posted - 2006.01.26 03:00:00 - [34] I wouldn't mind being able to fly my future Chimera in even 0.7 and lower space. It would be keeping with the POS's being allowed to get anchored in 0.7 space, but only so long as they can't participate in missions and not assign fighters to follow ships in warp and act like drones since they would only remain near the carrier. Would also make people think about stealing from a corps mining op for sure :) Funny quotes: San - The system is up says: the only thing Microsoft can make that doesn't suck is a vacuum Averick - "The box said "Requires Windows 95 or better" so I installed Linux"
Ranger 1	Posted - 2006.01.26 03:49:00 - [35] Edited by: Ranger 1 on 26/01/2006 03:53:44 Carriers should only be allowed in High Sec. space if... 1: Your corp status with the controlling faction is high enough to allow a POS there. 2: They are not allowed to remote assign control of their drones to another pilot. 3: They can use no form of acceleration gate. Of course they would have to be able to use normal jump gates, as no Cyno field can be generated in High Security. Their high security uses would be limited to Empire Wars and guarding mining ops (LOL, why bother with that?) and therefore would not unbalance things unduely... especially considering how slow they will be to move around via conventional jump gates (although it would be a free ride so to speak). And since they can already dock at stations, but anything larger can not, the ability to navigate in Empire via jump gates makes perfect sense. And if your corps current standings with the controlling faction determined where you could go, well that just allows some truly interesting strategies to become important... as in choosing your battlefields wisely, pathes of retreat, working hard as a corp for the sole purpose of being able to deploy this vessel in a particular system against your enemy, etc. In fact, some 0.0 alliances/corporations (with mediocre faction standings) could be at a distinct disadvantage against a strong Empire based corp/alliance if the war came to focus on battlefields in high security space. All in all it would dove tail nicely into the faction warfare situation that seems to be looming on the horizon, and allow everyone in the game a shot at a nifty Capitol ship regardless of your interest in 0.0.
DarknessInc	Posted - 2006.01.26 06:04:00 - [36] just imagine. Your a griefer corp. You declare war on a big corp thats in 0.0 you got all ur miners in lets say.......Jita. Then all of a sudden, something perks on local. One enemy pilot? It warps in. Its a Carrier. A Mothership infact. And Before you realize, a Fleet of your enemy corp has deployed and your mining team, and economy behind your war is crushed. :)
Sarah Aubry	Posted - 2006.01.26 07:19:00 - [37] Originally by: DarknessInc just imagine. Your a griefer corp. You declare war on a big corp thats in 0.0 you got all ur miners in lets say.......Jita. Then all of a sudden, something perks on local. One enemy pilot? It warps in. Its a Carrier. A Mothership infact. And Before you realize, a Fleet of your enemy corp has deployed and your mining team, and economy behind your war is crushed. :) You know many a war has been one because an enemy could not efficiently supply themselves? No different here, if they can wipe out your mining op in high sec then good on them.
Bozl1n	Posted - 2006.01.26 07:52:00 - [38] Capital ships cant use accel gates anyway, at least complex 1s anyway. Was stopped last major patch
Brady	Posted - 2006.01.26 08:56:00 - [39] Originally by: Bozl1n Capital ships cant use accel gates anyway, at least complex 1s anyway. Was stopped last major patch You tried a 1/10 in a carrier?
Fabiusbile	Posted - 2006.01.26 14:03:00 - [40] Originally by: DarknessInc just imagine. Your a griefer corp. You declare war on a big corp thats in 0.0 you got all ur miners in lets say.......Jita. Then all of a sudden, something perks on local. One enemy pilot? It warps in. Its a Carrier. A Mothership infact. And Before you realize, a Fleet of your enemy corp has deployed and your mining team, and economy behind your war is crushed. :) I can understand your point but we are talking about carriers NOT motherships and isnt Jita a very high sec system? As i think that we talking about getting them into empire upto 0.7 - 0.8.

Scalor Valentis	Posted - 2006.01.26 14:15:00 - [41] Originally by: DarknessInc just imagine. Your a griefer corp. There is no such thing in EVE
Fabiusbile	Posted - 2006.01.26 14:25:00 - [42] Originally by: Scalor Valentis Originally by: DarknessInc just imagine. Your a griefer corp. There is no such thing in EVE i beg to differ. I know of at least 2 corps that are out and out griefer corps one we are at war with right now and they only prey on production/mining corps. The other we have been at war with before. Both wars were against us not the other way round.
GlimmerMan	Posted - 2006.01.26 17:01:00 - [43] Originally by: Helen Tiger Edited by: Helen Tiger on 24/01/2006 13:13:59 I find this stupid... why would anyone pay over a billion isk (counting fighters) for a ship that can't go everywhere ? The way things are, the only possibility for using fighter drones is to go in low-sec / no-sec space, where you can get your ass PvP'ed. That means carriers simply aren't meant for solo players. Very few can afford to risk that much money. Couldn't they just brand them as "corp only" ? edit : can anyone tell me or link to the reason why CCP thought capital ships shouldn't be allowed in high-sec space ? I fail to understand. Helen CCP don't give a flying ** about solo players. Even if you could take it into any system there is a retarded game mechanic that means you need another player (to set up the c-whatever field) to be able to move the thing between systems. Blowing st up since May 2003
JamesTalon	Posted - 2006.01.26 17:51:00 - [44] Originally by: GlimmerMan Originally by: Helen Tiger snip CCP don't give a flying **** about solo players. Even if you could take it into any system there is a retarded game mechanic that means you need another player (to set up the c-whatever field) to be able to move the thing between systems. Not if the Carrier was able to use jump gates to access 0.5-0.7 space. Or, what could be done, is they could use any jump gate (accel gates should be denied for them if not already) and then allow them to do jump drive jumps as well. Funny quotes: San - The system is up says: the only thing Microsoft can make that doesn't suck is a vacuum Averick - "The box said "Requires Windows 95 or better" so I installed Linux"
R3DSKULL	Posted - 2006.01.26 19:27:00 - [45] *R3DSKULL hides as he feels like a NOOB
Stratosfear	Posted - 2006.01.26 20:16:00 - [46] Originally by: Bozl1n Capital ships cant use accel gates anyway, at least complex 1s anyway. Was stopped last major patch So complex whoring corps [unnamed] can't do it anymore with dreads? <clap> <clap>


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