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Oscar Kain
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Posted - 2006.01.25 22:00:00 -
[1]
Ok guys. Just a thought, (and constructive replys only please). Does anyone else think ECCM is underpowered. Right now what seems to decide combat is whoever gets the most jams. But with the chance based system ECCM seems to have little or no effect. surely if someone decides to fit ECCM it should give em a great advantage against players that jam.
I put two on my Bhaalgorn taking my radar stregth to 48 and i can still get jammed every single time by one jammer!!! I just think it would make combat more interesting if jaming didnt decide the fight every time. Im not saying to get rid of the whole chace based system just make ECCM more powerful
Opinions please guys.
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Mitchman
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Posted - 2006.01.26 00:40:00 -
[2]
A medslot ECCM can give a 60% boost. That's enough, IMHO.
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Kyoko Sakoda
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Posted - 2006.01.26 01:37:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: Mitchman
A medslot ECCM can give a 60% boost. That's enough, IMHO.
It's borderline overpowered, actually.
But since not many people want to sacrifice the slot for something more useful (and since the numbers of people who actually use ECM dwindle because they're always first target), it's probably not as much of a problem as I'd like to imagine it.
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Ella Lane
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Posted - 2006.01.27 01:35:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Ella Lane on 27/01/2006 01:35:08
Im affraid i agree with Oscar. It is WELL underpowered! if you have a modual that so greatly affects combat you need somthing to act as its antithesis. ECCM doesnt do that effectly. Im not joking when i say they should double its strength (at least). In my opinion with two active ECCMs on, a fully kitted out scorpion should rarely EVER get a Jam on you. Why? because it would shake combat up. Jams would no longer be the deciding factor in a fight. It would greatly diversify combat.
PLEASE DEVS. Listen to this thread! Its spot on!!!
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Ankanos
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Posted - 2006.01.31 12:03:00 -
[5]
agreed..
i'd just be happy if they had any effect at
all when being jammed npcs.. sure, on paper
they may look overpowered, but in actual use
all those numbers seem to fly out the window.
i can only imgaine how frustraing this is in
pvp.
something is not working right behind behind the scenes.
i dunno, maybe its another one of those bugs where
the equations are being applied in the wrong sequence.
-ank
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theRaptor
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Posted - 2006.01.31 13:00:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Ella Lane
Im affraid i agree with Oscar. It is WELL underpowered! if you have a modual that so greatly affects combat you need somthing to act as its antithesis. ECCM doesnt do that effectly. Im not joking when i say they should double its strength (at least). In my opinion with two active ECCMs on, a fully kitted out scorpion should rarely EVER get a Jam on you. Why? because it would shake combat up. Jams would no longer be the deciding factor in a fight. It would greatly diversify combat.
PLEASE DEVS. Listen to this thread! Its spot on!!!
No it is idiotic. A scorp uses 8 slots for ECM and you want to use two for ECCM to nearly totally negate those 8 slots? Two ECCM's would be standard in battle and jamming would be totally useless. And how would removing ECM diverify combat? EW is the only thing that stops combat being a straight tanking v damage race. I hardly even see anyone fly scorps in fleet combat anymore because they get ganked silly.
I don't think you trust, in, my, self-righteous suicide. |
Daric Lashan
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Posted - 2006.01.31 13:00:00 -
[7]
Why not change the way ECM and ECCM works entirely.
At the moment Electronic Warfare is a fight to see if you can lockon to a potential target or not. Why not make it degrade the effectivness of a lockon, in other words, makes your weapons less accurate because you haven't got a definative fix on the targets location and vector. This way even a small amount of ECM can affect combat, but don't completely debilitate your opponent. If they have ECCM fitted it works to counteract the degradation of their lockon.
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Ella Lane
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Posted - 2006.01.31 16:50:00 -
[8]
Well i fight in large fleet engagements every week and scorps are the most common BS. My point is that if you take away some of the power of ecm (Or at least make the equations that are down on paper work correctly) then poeple would carry less ecm which in turn would mean people would waste fewer of their midslots on eccm. As a resault of this it would even out and would make combat more interesting then just a race for the jam.
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Deekan Fox
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Posted - 2006.01.31 16:51:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Ankanos
agreed..
i'd just be happy if they had any effect at
all when being jammed npcs.. sure, on paper
they may look overpowered, but in actual use
all those numbers seem to fly out the window.
couldnt agree more man. glad someone has said it.
SIGNED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Miss Lear
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Posted - 2006.01.31 18:50:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Miss Lear on 31/01/2006 18:58:06
in a way I agree with Oscar and I also agree with raptor. In real life jamming is a hit or miss thing, with a middle ground of having to clear out the signal from all the interference the enemy produces, thus being jammed.Not the ability to just keep trying over and over untill you do it. If you over power the opponents system they should not be able to effective do anything. The old way of EW was better. Atm there is not real way of defending vs. EW unless you are caldari and use FOF. If you went along the lines of sensor degradation, as the other guy mentioned they would just be the same as tracking disruptors.
If a BS has a sensor strength of 25 and a frig can only jam say 14 points worth. The frig should never really have a chance of jamming the BS, but the jamming should allow the frig more time to attack the BS before it gets a lock on. ATM their is no real way to combat lock on speeds. Ya sure their are signature skills, but they donĘt take much into effect really other then making them faster, So why not counteract that?
so my proposal is that EW should deal with lock on speeds, if you think about it is kind of natural, a tracking disruptor will lower you ability to hit something and with enough of them render you unable to hit anything, is that not a version of EW as well? Why not make jammers the same. if jammers are meant to not be able to let you target, then why not have a middle ground other then just a on and off switch. Have the jamming strength make lock on's allot slower and if you can over power the ships sensor strength by just 1 point, then they should not get a lock at all, The way they are used now is that you jam a person and then have a fleet come in behind the jammer and nuke the target, that means you are doing this in probably under 30secs. If the jammers were switched to the way I am talking about you can still do the same as the ship will have a hideously long lock on speed and still not have any chance, but this way you can still have a way of defending VS it by packing sensor boosters.
Atm if you have 4 multi specs on you can jamm anything in the game indefinatly, using a griffin a BB or a scorp, the only difference is the number of ships you can jamm at the same time.
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Miss Lear
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Posted - 2006.01.31 18:51:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Miss Lear on 31/01/2006 18:51:25
yargle!
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boomBox
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Posted - 2006.01.31 20:10:00 -
[12]
Wow, sounds like you guys don't remember how ECM jamming used to work. Here's a hint, it was awful.
You could easily cycle jam many more targets than you can now.
And why do you want quasi remote sensor damp utility on damps? That module already exists.
And as for ECCM, just be thankful they aren't as prevalent as Sensor Boosters or Tracking Computers, because with the stacking bugs being what they are, they almost completely negate Remote Sensor Damps and Tracking Disruptors. Both of those are really common in fleet setups. Far, far, FAR more than ECCM. Please fix the stacking bug CCP. =(
I've seen scorps with hundreds of sensor strength still get jammed, that's just how a chance based system works. However, I'm pretty sure that with 48 radar strength you weren't jammed "every single time". 
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Oscar Kain
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Posted - 2006.02.03 05:08:00 -
[13]
Originally by: boomBox
However, I'm pretty sure that with 48 radar strength you weren't jammed "every single time".
Dude i was there...
Some good ideas here (thanx for your post lear).
But im not saying the system has to be changed. I just personaly think that there should be an adjustment and ccp should address the balance a little more. just to make it feel like carrying eccm gives you at least some protection against jamming.
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Shaemell Buttleson
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Posted - 2006.02.03 10:14:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Shaemell Buttleson on 03/02/2006 10:16:34
Actually I would like to see modules like damage mods that increase the range and power power of EW modules just the same way we have heatsinks for energy turrets and tracking computers for increased range on turrets etc. They have brought them out for drones now as well.
With the capital ships having higher sensor power but not being immune to EW I can see a role for these.
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