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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 35 post(s) |
Miss Ladybird
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2013.10.11 13:52:00 -
[1] - Quote
CCP Guard did you really say those ships were worth 30 trit?
Frankly Somer has conquered this game more than anyone else to date.
1) He has raked in isk from players in game hand over fist, God knows how much he has now.
2) He has strategically sponsored events to advertise his lottery service, so he can get more people on his website losing all their isk and not enjoying it in game, and as a reward CCP print him out a 300b isk prize (no not 30 trit Guard).
3) He has all the top names vouching for how great his lotteries are, and even has CCP tirelessly asserting, again and again, and even in this thread, how great his service is to this game.
Nice work.
Time to quit eve I suppose. There is only so much insult to my intelligence I can stomach. |
Miss Ladybird
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
2
|
Posted - 2013.10.11 14:02:00 -
[2] - Quote
Mitch's Forum Alt wrote:Kalindra Chan wrote:The moment has come...
Thank you CCP for taking away my motivation to play Eve Online!
Somer blink actually cannot be blamed, because it is CCP alone allowing their lottery business.
I dont care about the few thousand dollars i put into plexes and collector editions..
The thing what makes me very sad is, that you took away the joy i had playing eve, which is.. i mean was such a great universe for a virtual life.
I know nobody cares, just wanted to let you know CCP and maybe i am not the only one... :( you aren't the only one... i already let several accounts lapse due to this and am still debating what to do with the others as they come up for renewal. unfortunately, i do have to keep 2 accounts up for another month due to some in-game business (i keep my word, not gonna leave people holding the bag like CCP does), but depending on how this turns out, i may just let everything expire once that business is taken care of. at the very least, i expect a complete halt in the issuance of SIW... not just a temporary stop... i'm talking a full, we're done, the units in game will be the only units in game type of deal. if you want to resume in the future, you do it with a new ship skin and announce it clearly and well ahead of time so that we don't have another situation with insider traders taking advantage of a falsely reported supply to sell their dev-spawned items for top dollar.
I agree. CCP are trying to claim what was given was worth 30 trit / nothing. it was worth 300b isk. And we are all paying for this game and deserve a better account than this. They simply dont want to face up to the train wreck that this is.
I am the same as you. I used to have multiple accounts but I have honestly let them all lapse apart from my main due to the constant having to stomach this kind of nonsense. If anyone from CCP doesnt believe me... check my account history. |
Miss Ladybird
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
4
|
Posted - 2013.10.11 14:31:00 -
[3] - Quote
He said Somer deserved 300b for getting players to lose all their isk on his website, and has along with most of ccp persistently held somer out to be 'great' and a 'content provider'.
Its pure garbage. Might be good enough for you, not for me.
And yes, if you read Guards original post, he did throw around '30 trit' as being one way to view the value of the ship. He also tried asserting it is worthless by saying the ship is not as good as a tech 1 scorpion, totally ignoring the collectors / rarity value. The reason for this is because they are trying to hide the 300b bit.
If you can stomach garbage arguments then good for you.
CCP gave Somer Blink 300b isk. The only thing more tragic than this is that CCP cannot pry themselves away from promoting Blink and holding it out as being a really great service that adds content.
Question for CCP: Do you really think players losing isk to Somer qualifies as 'content'?
|
Miss Ladybird
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
4
|
Posted - 2013.10.11 14:46:00 -
[4] - Quote
There is so much sense being spoken in this thread, and I just cant stop thinking about the audacity of CCPs '30 trit' gambit.
I agree with Argus Sorn and Josef Djugashvilis 100%, and many others that have posted I have not named.
Another Question for CCP (bet they dont answer): Why are you pushing online eve gambling so hard? |
Miss Ladybird
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
5
|
Posted - 2013.10.11 15:02:00 -
[5] - Quote
CCP Guard wrote:TheGunslinger42 wrote:CCP Guard, since you're clearly still actively reading and replying to this thread, what are your thoughts on somers - or indeed any third party CCP may deal with in the future - banning and excluding paying subscribers at their own discretion?
It's no secret that people who share an IP address for example - like family, house mates, internet cafes - are banned from somer and not allowed to fairly take part in this recent give away. Are CCP willing to allow third parties to arbitrarily dictate rules and regulations that EVE players must abide to in order to participate in give aways or other events CCP are helping create/sponsor/etc? We're aware of that concern and it's something we'll have a look at and draw lines around when we sit down with the CSM and map out what our guidelines should be. There are a lot of events that are inaccessible to a large portion of your playerbase for various reasons and we have to look at how all of that plays into the different levels of support we provide.
CCP keeps calling what they are providing 'support'.
CCP gave hundreds of billions of unique (and spawned out of thin air) ships to Somer Blink in support of what? It was in support of online gambling in eve.
So why does Guard avoid answering my question.
Q: Why does CCP want to support online gambling in eve with free assets and extensive vouching? |
Miss Ladybird
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
5
|
Posted - 2013.10.11 15:18:00 -
[6] - Quote
Argus Sorn wrote: I can draw your line for you.
CCP on one side. SOMER on the other. Don't cross it.
It isn't that hard, businesses have to draw these kind of lines all the time to avoid conflicts of interest, why are you having such a hard time?
And how do you plan on addressing this concern in time for EVE Vegas to make sure everyone has a fair opportunity to enter, because otherwise such arbitrary banning of participation might not only create discontent among the player base, but it may not even be legal given the Vegas 'lotteries' are for prizes with real cash value? The fact is SOMER is not necessarily equipped to do this fairly.
Once again, I have your answer, since CCP seems to struggling with it.
CCP | SOMER
Don't cross the line.
I couldnt agree more. Put bluntly, Somer must be laughing all the way to the bank thanks to CCPs promotion of his service.
Ruskarn Andedare wrote:
SOMER - not a fansite, not a community site, do nothing for the community other than as advertising to bring in more revenue to SOMER, already unbelievably isk-rich - why, why, why would you ever think they deserved anything from CCP to help them?
This stinks of favouritism and your responses stink of covering up as you (CCP as a whole) continually imply they do good for the community without any evidence whatsoever other than the obvious point that you think they're great.
you are 100% right Rus, Guard is doing what I call the dance. He is overtly avoiding all the hard, honest talk and discussion points and totally skirting the topic. Somer blink simply doesn't contribute anything. It is an online gambling service HELLO. |
Miss Ladybird
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
9
|
Posted - 2013.10.11 15:26:00 -
[7] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:Is it too hard for people to believe that the train of thought at CCP was:
Our players are meeting up in Vegas. Lets do something cool for them. What's cool? Prizes are cool. We don't have an infrastructure in place to give out prizes. Who gives stuff out regularly? SomerBlink gives out a lot of stuff. Lots of people use them. Lets use Somer to raffle the prizes off. People like prizes, it'll be fine.
totally invalid contribution to the debate.
ITS JUST A RAFFLE!
Literally, anyone with even the most basic and rudimentary resemblance of intelligence can do a raffle. |
Miss Ladybird
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
10
|
Posted - 2013.10.11 15:28:00 -
[8] - Quote
Argus Sorn wrote:Ruskarn Andedare wrote:
SOMER - not a fansite, not a community site, do nothing for the community other than as advertising to bring in more revenue to SOMER, already unbelievably isk-rich - why, why, why would you ever think they deserved anything from CCP to help them?
This stinks of favouritism and your responses stink of covering up as you (CCP as a whole) continually imply they do good for the community without any evidence whatsoever other than the obvious point that you think they're great.
Let's put an end to this nonsense because I am frankly, sick of it. http://cogdev.net/blink/Guard, please tell me what makes that a great fansite? Explain to me how that site makes people play eve or enhances their experience in EVE.
Its got nothing to do with being a fan site. It is just a way for the owner to make isk hand over fist. Who'd have guessed this gambling site could also be passed off as a 'community centre' and thus qualify for hundreds of billions in isk gifts (spawned from thin air by CCP) and persistant, and determined, CCP promotion? |
Miss Ladybird
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
10
|
Posted - 2013.10.11 15:43:00 -
[9] - Quote
Sturmwolke wrote:Argus Sorn wrote: [good post]
Does this really need to be made any clearer? A goddamn monkey could understand the conflict of interest here and yet we have thus seen three CCP devs come to us who have shown an inability to "get it".
So yes - stop insulting our intelligence.
Well, if one was to analyze CCP's Guard OP, assuming he wrote all of that ... it's really nothing more that a fluffy damage control post which sidesteps most of the angst against it. First few paragraphs is a subtle attempt to devalue the gifts given, lessening the impact ... whilst at the same time avoiding critical questions. The middle attempts to provide justification through weak blanket comparisons, instead of on a case-by-case basis and the rest deflects the arrow aimed at it through a "let's all move forward" routine. I think they missed explaining on WHY those ISW weren't pulled, with all the pertaining juicy details. The fact that they allowed a third-party to sponsor an EVE related event puts CCP at a disadvantage when it comes to negotiation. Think of it as a goodwill debt towards the third-party .... i.e. CCP owes them something. Those blind to this fact will say .. no no, it's of mutual benefit - a win-win situation. Well my dear fellow, read up on the controversies surrounding TPP (Trans-Pacific Partnership) Agreement and tell me, can you smell a rat? These agreements were supposedly of mutual benefits to its signatories ... supposedly. There's plenty of other cases of insidious and subtle maneuvering towards an end goal(s) that masks itself as beneficial/mutually beneficial - prev example was just from top of my head. Hammer down policies for 3rd party sponsorship so that you'll never be put at a ransom. Evaluate each offer on a case-by-case basis. Integrity should never, ever be compromised.
You are being far to reserved for my tastes.
The OP could be summarised as saying:
"Somer does a lot of good for the community, so to support them we gave them 30 trits worth of ships. This has upset a few people so we will be responsible and introduce new rules to give prizes by"
Somer doesnt do any good for the community. Somer is just good at raking in isk from its eve punters hand over fist, and strategically sponsoring events to get even more punters on its website losing isk.
CCP saw fit to reward said behaviour with hundreds of billions in unique rare ships and constant promotion and vouches.
Question to CCP: Are you trying to promote more of us to start up online gambling ventures in eve?
Again I dont expect an answer as CCP purely made this thread to do their 'avoid the issue' dance. |
Miss Ladybird
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
12
|
Posted - 2013.10.11 16:04:00 -
[10] - Quote
CCP shouldn't be parachuting in any 300b isk support packages for a start. It is simply meddling in the game too much.
And any praise given to in game entities needs to be well screened. Praise encourages further actions, and indicates support. Why does CCP want to show such strong support for an online gambling service in eve? Do they want to see more of this? Do they think Somer Blink desperately needs the isk?
The only reasonable argument CCP can counter with is that they did not intend to endorse Somerblink as the 300b was a secret backhand.
The tragic thing about this is most EVE players don't even play Blink. Most players hate it. It is simply the oldest scam in the book: "organised gambling games".
Most players dont want to waste all their isk on SomerBlinks website so CCP shouldn't be surprised that there is such outrage over this outrageous use of spawned assets and CCP endorsement. |
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Miss Ladybird
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
12
|
Posted - 2013.10.11 16:16:00 -
[11] - Quote
CCP Guard wrote:DNSBLACK wrote:CCP Guard wrote:In the same sense you could say that CCP didn't support SOMER, the players did :). Not trying to be a smartass, I promise, ...just a little late night philosophy Well as a customer who enjoys you as a human being and a developer. I will not read into this anymore then it is. but fing with smart ass responses when you know what I mean is not helping. So lets start over here is your chance. Answer these question first. 1. Why wasn't the CSM told about this at the Summer Summit. 2. Why was the community team session not even on the agenda or was it on the agenda and canceled? When you can give a good answer to these question I will return fire. Guard here is a tip: When some one says they are not trying to be something. That is exactly what they are trying to be. I think they call that passive aggressive. As a community rep you need to avoid that during a crisis. I'm sorry if this offended you, was certainly not my intention. But it may be that we have slightly differing philosophies on what constitutes sponsoring an event and I was mostly just trying to highlight that difference. Note that I'm not talking about any specific entity here or any specific case but rather the overall point of whether a profit making enterprise can actually be seen as sponsoring something with a portion of the money they get from their profit making enterprise since they get the money from others. I think it can since it obtains the right to decide where that money goes once it's legally acquired it. Of course, everyone is always free to have their reservations about individual cases based on whatever factors matter to them. Just to add an example CCP has supported charities time and again and we are a company that has a board and investors and is expected to do well financially. Of course that support would never be possible without you, the players, so maybe we both have a point :). Anyway...philosophy aside, I'll address your questions. 1. We didn't because we were, at the time, treating this as business as usual. We don't generally bring individual reward or prize ideas up with the CSM. But looking back, if we had...maybe we wouldn't be having this conversation so there's that... We 2. No special reason we didn't have one this time. We'll definitely have one for the winter summit.
While I am sure the summits, council for stella management feedback forums and this thread are insanely powerful to keep CCP reasonable... Id rather CCP just announced the ships were being confiscated back from Somerblink.
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Miss Ladybird
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
12
|
Posted - 2013.10.11 16:21:00 -
[12] - Quote
War Kitten wrote:Miss Ladybird wrote: You are being far to reserved for my tastes.
The OP could be summarised as saying:
"Somer does a lot of good for the community, so to support them we gave them 30 trits worth of ships. This has upset a few people so we will be responsible and introduce new rules to give prizes by"
Somer doesnt do any good for the community. Somer is just good at raking in isk from its eve punters hand over fist, and strategically sponsoring events to get even more punters on its website losing isk.
CCP saw fit to reward said behaviour with hundreds of billions in unique rare ships and constant promotion and vouches.
Question to CCP: Are you trying to promote more of us to start up online gambling ventures in eve?
Again I dont expect an answer as CCP purely made this thread to do their 'avoid the issue' dance.
SOMER sponsors teams in alliance tournaments. SOMER sponsors prizes in other competitions and raffles. Isn't it a bit convenient to ignore these things and only portray them as evil profiteers? Oh, and don't forget the line that these things don't count as giving back to the community - it counts as advertising, and thus all part of a grand money-grubbing evil plot. If what SOMER provides wasn't fun for the community, would they be making isk at it?
Well yes that is exactly what I am saying. Somer sponsors to make more isk for somer and somer's 'employees', and further its ingame business.
You are literally trying to label an online gambling service a charity, are you mad? All Gambling organisations extensively use sponsorships as part of their business model.
Somtimes I wonder If what I am reading is real with online forums.
|
Miss Ladybird
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
15
|
Posted - 2013.10.11 23:29:00 -
[13] - Quote
I want to know why Somer isnt banned for RMT. He is converting isk value into real world currency value.
If CCP can confirm that his operation is legit, maybe more of us can get a slice of the cake?
How about, I make a website with the following rules:
1) I will sell you a 'Ladybird' bundle, that includes 1 plex and 1 ladybird token.
2) I receive real cash for this sale, and make real profit in my pocket.
3) You may use your ladybird token to buy ships from my Jita hanger, one token is worth 200m equivelent.
All good CCP?
Also, has anyone read the first response to the OP? It literally hits the nail right on the head and asks all the pertinent questions. It was totally ignored. TOTALLY.
the other thing is, the reason CCP probably isnt in trouble with the Gambling authorities is probably because this conduct in eve hasnt been reported formally yet. |
Miss Ladybird
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
17
|
Posted - 2013.10.12 00:06:00 -
[14] - Quote
Somer situation:
Step 1: Sell a plex + blink credit for CASH
Step 2: Redeem GAME ITEMS for blink credits
My proposal:
Step 1: Sell main for isk on character bazaar
Step 2: Buy GAME ITEMS for said isk
Step 2: Sell a paperclip + ladybird tokens for CASH
Step 3: Redeem GAME ITEMS for Ladybird credits
My issue
How is it, 99% of the eve player base can see that injecting hundreds of billions of isk into Somerblink for providing a Online Gambling is outragous, and seemingly not a single CCP employee deviates from thinking Somer is altruistic and deserves help, not to mention relentless vouches |
Miss Ladybird
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
19
|
Posted - 2013.10.12 07:16:00 -
[15] - Quote
Ice Pirateer wrote:Gogela wrote:
ATTN: CCP Guard
I would like to put up a link on a web property I own that sells 30, 60, and 90 day GTCs via affiliate link. I would like the same return on referrals that SOMER gets, and I want to offer 150, 300, and 450 million isk to players who purchase GTCs via my affiliate link. Is this possible? Bump ? ^^^
Bump I want to hear the CCP official response. |
Miss Ladybird
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
27
|
Posted - 2013.10.12 23:10:00 -
[16] - Quote
I have faithfully and completely read all posts relating to this topic.
The EVE player base clearly cares about this latest CCP game meddling a lot. This is a train wreck. There is right now hundreds of comments all saying the same thing.
PLAYERS ARE ANGRY:
1) CCP has given SOMERblink a wealth injection (spawned from nothing) of hundreds of billions in unique ships.
2) CCP has an ongoing and sustained campaign to vouch for, and advertise SOMERblink's in game gambling services (which are totally unaudited and unregulated by the way), increasing its revenue again by what can only be expected to be large figures. This is a pure competitive advantage for SOMERblink over its in game competitors.
3) Has been given status as being 'above the EULA' by CCP with its ongoing RMT business.
4) Has been given a special relationship with CCP (CCP skypes with SOMER)
5) CCP just wont give up the 'SOMERblink is a community hub, does good for the eve community and is altruistic' campaign. Most players hate SOMERblink.
THE TRUE TRAGEDY
CCP doesnt even care. Hundreds upon hundreds of players have now passionately expressed their anger at this, and some are even spending time investigated all the facts that relate to this case and presenting them to the community (a real community service I might add).
There is virtually no CCP commentary on this, the only comments I have read continue to sing SOMER's praises, refuse to admit anything, and fail to show any seriousness or investigation.
Put bluntly, while the players believe the above five points, CCP clearly seems to oppose across the board. |
Miss Ladybird
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
40
|
Posted - 2013.10.14 11:00:00 -
[17] - Quote
ISD Tyrozan wrote:2 personal attack posts, an off-topic post, a ranting post, and a moderation discussion post have been removed.
Forum rule 4. Personal attacks are prohibited. Forum rule 26. Off-topic posting is prohibited. Forum rule 3. Ranting is prohibited. Forum rule 11. Discussion of forum moderation is prohibited.
Hundreds of posts later, and this is the first sign of any involvement from CCP.
It is just funny how they are happy to make the community outraged just so SOMERblink, an already filthy rich gambling scam, can get an extra few hundred billion isk (for free and spawned form nothing).
Can we have some kind of response?
We deserve a response... And one focusing on the issues we are discussing. Not another lame commitment to agenda this at the winter summit. |
Miss Ladybird
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
40
|
Posted - 2013.10.14 11:29:00 -
[18] - Quote
Well, hundreds of players have commented now with next to no CCP response.
In their frustration players are now showing anger in their posts, and breaking the EULA and CCP are deleting posts (and remaining silent).
I honestly feel like I have put more effort into this debate than any single member of CCP. How can nobody at CCP feel the same as I do about this?
I think I have already stomached as much of this as I can for one day. Ill check back again tomorrow.
|
Miss Ladybird
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
40
|
Posted - 2013.10.14 11:32:00 -
[19] - Quote
Archibald Thistlewaite III wrote:Miss Ladybird wrote:
It is just funny how they are happy to make the community outraged just so SOMERblink, an already filthy rich gambling scam, can get an extra few hundred billion isk (for free and spawned form nothing).
Can we have some kind of response?
We deserve a response... And one focusing on the issues we are discussing. Not another lame commitment to agenda this at the winter summit.
Can you please stop saying Somer have been given isk for free and spawned from nothing. They haven't and its confusing the very legitimate concerns the player base has.
lawl SOMERalt....
I forgot the iscorps were worth 30 trit (reprocess value).
And I doubt the sustained and continuing CCP campaign to advertise and promote SOMERblink has increased its gambling takings at all. |
Miss Ladybird
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
44
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 10:39:00 -
[20] - Quote
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=285907&find=unread
My thread got Ignore-locked.
Apparently I am supposed to keep discussion in this thread, as if I might get an answer to my question?
CAN I COPY SOMERBLINK?
I want to sell ladybird credits for real life cash (like blink credits). The ladybird credits can be redeemed with me in game for ships.
I just wanted to ask CCP before doing this as I know RMT is bannable
PS: They seem to be ignoring and locking all threads that try to get to the bottom of why SOMERblink is being permitted to perpetuate a RMT business. How come? |
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Miss Ladybird
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
50
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 09:57:00 -
[21] - Quote
Why does CCP act like this is such a difficult situation to analyse, like its really hard to balance up the rights and wrongs of it.
IT IS EASY. All I presonally want is the following:
1) CCP to implement an 'Above the Fray' rule. This means they will never take sides with in game entities again. They will only intervene in the game where the EULA is being broken.
2) CCP item spawning (AKA game meddling) to be immediately limited to:
- Valid reimbursment cases
- AT (and similar CCP run tournament) prizes
- Seasonal gifts (must be gifted to all)
the above is comprehensive
3) All of SOMERblink's iScorps to be taken back and destroyed immediately
4) All promotion and support for SOMERblink to cease (in keeping with the Above the Fray principle). I also would like a sober and simply worded announcement that SOMERblink is able to scam, might be scamming, and can scam in the future.
5) SOMERblink to be ordered to cease its RMT business. I want each SOMERblink account to receive a 1 week suspension and a fine applied to the founder in isk, equal to half of the total isk paid out under the RMT scheme (this is very lenient, and fair as CCP is partly to blame for not apprehending SOMER earlier, he probably thought what he was doing was ok).
TOO GREEDY? |
Miss Ladybird
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
50
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 10:13:00 -
[22] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:...does CCP believe that tobacco companies supported formula one for so many years because they were such great guys interested in the sport and not in increasing their sales.
Excellent put. This captures my thinking exactly.
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Miss Ladybird
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
57
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 12:04:00 -
[23] - Quote
Careby wrote:Miss Ladybird wrote:... 3) All of SOMERblink's iScorps to be taken back and destroyed immediately ... I understand the sentiment behind trying to "put things right" but this may be like trying to put the toothpaste back in the tube. Some (most?) of the ships were sold on, in some cases multiple times. And however much blame rests with CCP or Somerset Mahm, it is unlikely that most of the 30 recipients were guilty of anything other than circumstance. I really can't think of a completely satisfactory remedy. Which brings me to my real point. Assuming you are a player who cares about SOMERgate (some apparently don't), and are waiting to see what is done about it before quitting EVE (some didn't), are you willing to give CCP a realistic way out? Or would you rather put them in a no-win situation? Obviously no corrective action will make everyone happy, and there are some demands which are too extreme for CCP to accept. I'm sure in time CCP will do something, but how much (or how little) is really enough?
In honesty I dont really want an apology, or for SOMER to be punished.
Just needs to be sorted and not happen again.
Then again I am genuinely probably going to stop playing eve. There are far too many other games out there without all this rubbish associated with them. |
Miss Ladybird
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
68
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 19:57:00 -
[24] - Quote
Trebor Daehdoow wrote:A quick status report from the CSM side.
We had a 30 minute meeting with CCP Dolan on Monday about a CSM initiative to survey the community. The result of that meeting was constructive, and resulted in a 90 minute meeting Tuesday with CCP Dolan, CCP Navigator and CCP Guard.
During the second meeting, it was agreed that the first step in the process of resolving these issues is to get a better read on community opinions about acceptable practices.
To do this, CSM will be running two forum surveys, in a manner similar to our crowdsourcing initiatives. These will focus on Appropriate Fansite Incentives and Acceptable Fansite Business Models, and will be structured in a way that we hope will encourage good debate.
At the same time, CCP will be running identical surveys through their established subscriber survey methods, so that we have data on the opinions of the general community in addition to the forum community.
We are currently working with CCP to finalize the list of survey questions. We hope this will be completed in a few days, and the forum surveys will go live as soon as possible thereafter. However, things may slip a bit because of EVE Vegas.
CSM welcomes your input as we finalize the survey questions. Our current plan is that each question will be a statement, with 4 possible responses: "This is OK", "This is a grey-area", "This should not be allowed", and "I have no opinion".
Here are some sample statements to give you an idea of the style:
Fansite incentives:
* CCP can provide PLEX as prizes for contests on fansites.
* Fansites should receive incentives in proportion to their benefits to the community.
Business Models:
* I provide a service to the EVE community, and if they want to thank me, they can give me ISK.
* I provide a service to the EVE community, and if they want to thank me, they can give me real money.
We are particularly interested in questions that explore the grey areas.
You guys are totally useless.
So you had a 2 hour discussion and all you have to show us is NOTHING.
All you had to do was read all these posts with a pad and pen to jot down the essential arguments and state each to Ccp and ask for action points. We don't need a survey as all the points have now been made about one hundred times in here. Albeit with little Ccp response.
Hell on the topic of not caring about this thread, the csm is taking the same approach as Ccp - little by way of commentary and absolutely no progress.
Is SOMER still RMTing? For not pulling the offer in light of this debate shows either a total lack of prudence, that Ccp have skyped and given assurances or that I'm mad.
I'm not resubbing screw this survey. I just wish I was at the meeting. The csm needs to not fear a hard encounter because that is what is being asked for by the players. |
Miss Ladybird
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
70
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 20:23:00 -
[25] - Quote
Yeh so players have made at least two thousands posts on this now. Frankly, most of them are well reasoned logical posts, definitely good material for the CSM to work with.
CCP has done nothing.
CSM has had a 2 hour meeting and agreed with CCP 'not enough feedback has been received we need a survey'.
Guess who is deciding what questions make it into the survey?
Every time I log on to check if my game is ok again, I end up having to get up off the floor after falling of my chair laughing.
CCP please please please employ some competent staff. At least staff that doesn't have an addiction to spawning items and gifting them to in game entities... |
Miss Ladybird
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
75
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Posted - 2013.10.17 08:04:00 -
[26] - Quote
Mike Azariah wrote:Kate stark wrote:discussing the issue and suggesting alternatives is a bad idea; shut up and let's pretend this never happened No, that is a bad idea, Kate. We should discuss the issue without resorting to repetition, misquoting or over the top arguments. The issue does need fixing and we are working on that fix. Putting words in our mouths to inflame and troll isn't the way to progress. Threats to leave and unsubscribe make some sense as hitting a company where it lives is effective but if you are leaving then you shouldn't have a lot of say in what those of us staying behind live with for rules. I understand that some of you are angry . . . good. It shows you really care about this game. Otherwise your reaction would be 'meh, whatever'. But harness that anger. Apply it in a focused way rather than spinning on the floor kicking and yelling 'but I want it my way' over and over. Some of you are doing this and I appreciate the effort whether I agree with them or not. To put down what you want in simple statements without all the emotional baggage is hard, I get that. (I have kids) BUT THAT is what helps us move forward. That is what makes people read and think and consider change. Nobody asked you to shut up, just to pause, take a breath and present your arguments in calm rational way without all the repetition. I know that goes directly against the rules of threadnaughts but ti will work far better in the long run. As for me, my biggest fear is that if things become black and white we may lose a LOT of the community support for other sites, other people who have done so much for the game but may wind up on the wrong side of some line drawn in ink. It is why I like the grey. Sure, Eve players being who they are will dance in the grey areas to find where the line actually is and that is their right. But I really really do not want to see some babies thrown out with the bathwater. So making a snap decision and drawing hard and fast rules . . . well look over at the TOS thread and see how much that form of handling problems has worked out. So we listen to you, or try to. We talk to CCP and try to find what was done and why, what will happen next and make a format for the future that will address the current issues. m
Well I agree with you.
But you must admit, the main reason people are getting over the top (me included) is because there is no progress and it feels like we are being ignored.
I can illustrate this with a simple example.
SOMERblink is still RMTing... |
Miss Ladybird
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
75
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Posted - 2013.10.17 08:32:00 -
[27] - Quote
Guys just give up.
SOMERblink is the EVE golden child now, CCP doesnt want all these attacks against them.
They are keeping their hundreds of billions of ships, the vegas thing is still happening, and the RMT exception is standing they dont need to give a reason for it.
Stop being so jelous. Just go play Star Citizen https://robertsspaceindustries.com/about-the-game if you don't like it.
PS
I am officially giving up. Going to just lapse my remaining account and play star craft or league of legends until star citizen is up and running.
Adios |
Miss Ladybird
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
87
|
Posted - 2013.12.30 11:06:00 -
[28] - Quote
Maximus Andendare wrote:Thanks for the statement. However, it doesn't particularly address the glaring fact that SOMER received free trips to Fanfest and unique ships for a "fair" contest "for the community" that CCP has no control over or audit power for. Further, the contest is inherently biased toward people who blow billions of isk playing blinks, giving them a disproportionate amount of entries for unique ships only obtainable through this medium (not to mention making SOMER even more isk), as well as giving a player-run, for-profit corporation the ability to decide who can even have a chance at winning it, considering SOMER Blink solely and unilaterally has the power to ban accounts at will.
The fact that you guys earlier compared SOMER Blink to a charity is shocking, off-putting and shows a deep disconnection between what CCP believes "a community service" is and what the players do. Many players believe that "a community service" is something that actually enriches the game or provides content to it. SOMER Blink is a third party website created solely to print isk for its founder. They provide no services in game. At all. (This doesn't even to speak to the fact that serious concerns exist for many players to the legitimacy of the SOMER Blink lottery system. For example, how is it that the player with the most blinks won, Replacement 234, doesn't appear in the most blinks played? Is Replacement 234, with an win rate at a minimum of 32.7%+ simply luckier than the next-highest winner, Featious who has a 28.8% win rate? Or the highest winner (with over 9 TRILLION isk more than Replacement 234) doesn't even appear to have played or won the most blinks?)
The difference in your example of "go to game trade show, get swag" and the SOMERgate fiasco is that as players we can choose to attend game trade show--at our wills--and get swag. We don't, however, have the luxury of playing blinks if the account is banned. Further, you're not limiting the prize pool to players attending EVE Vegas, as your trade show example would indicate. It is open to anyone willing to blow billions of isk on blinks. Even then, they would still have an inequitable chance of winning against other players who have a disproportionate amount of tickets. Your basic example of simply playing a promo blink and having an entry is pedantic at best and deceitful at worst, considering that everyone knows that blink players will have hundreds or thousands of tickets entered.
It's good that you've put future plans on hold for hopefully a better process. It's unfortunate, though, that you decided to stop recognizing community sites short of providing rewards to meaningful providers of content in the game, instead opting to enrich a for-profit corp's wallet instead. The fact that you haven't pulled the unique rewards, given the glaring deficiencies in using SOMER Blink as the provider of the contest, shows me that CCP has only a passing concern to the legitimate grievances we players have. CCP owes nothing to SOMER Blink, and if this were believed by CCP, it would have pulled the unique and fantastical prizes in favor of something more traditional like PLEX packs or Collector's Editions.
This was the first response to the thread. Did anyone from CCP even bother to read it?
I think they did, they just tactically ignored it.
By the way, I love the way there is a survey out claiming that 'our opinions matter'. Well everyone who has responded to this thread knows different.
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Miss Ladybird
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
88
|
Posted - 2013.12.31 02:44:00 -
[29] - Quote
CCP - Does our opinions matter? |
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