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Daisai
Daisai Investments.
0
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Posted - 2011.11.07 09:31:00 -
[31] - Quote
Schmata Bastanold wrote:Daisai wrote:How the hell can you get better or be a bad "pvp'er" in a game which has such passive gameplay?
Just dont ever try to solo pvp in eve online, 9 out of 10 times you are cannonfodder for gatecamps. You have better luck trying to canflip people or annoy missionrunners in high sec. ok, you can't get better, it is all passive gameplay, pvp in eve is dead - you said it in another thread (started by me btw) already. just wipe those big tears off of your face and get back into checkers or sth where you can do solo pvp.
The truth hurts doesnt it? Just keep deluding yourself about eve online "pvp". |

Schmata Bastanold
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
17
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Posted - 2011.11.07 09:38:00 -
[32] - Quote
Daisai wrote:The truth hurts doesnt it? Just keep deluding yourself about eve online "pvp".
gee... I play computer games, I delude myself already, why to stop halfway?
I see that one more thing I have to learn is how to spot a troll when I see one. I wrote this so obviously I am failing at this too I am not my skills but... http://eveboard.com/pilot/Schmata_Bastanold |

Daisai
Daisai Investments.
0
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Posted - 2011.11.07 09:52:00 -
[33] - Quote
Funny how people call others trolls just because they cant defend their pov. If you play proper pvp games which are dependant on skill you will know why eve online isnt one of them. The only thing that might be a bit player controlled is your capacitor. Since you have close to no influence on the movement of your ships also no influence on the dps your ship does.
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Schmata Bastanold
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
17
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Posted - 2011.11.07 10:08:00 -
[34] - Quote
Daisai wrote:Funny how people call others trolls just because they cant defend their pov. If you play proper pvp games which are dependant on skill you will know why eve online isnt one of them. The only thing that might be a bit player controlled is your capacitor. Since you have close to no influence on the movement of your ships also no influence on the dps your ship does.
did you ever play any of MUDs, old school text based MMOs? I had and have to tell you that all you had to do to kill something/somebody was to type "kill" command with some parameters and fight was on. And you could type "drink potion" command to refill your hp or you could type "flee" command to attempt to run from engagement when fight was to hard. or you could just sit and watch lines of text reporting how it is going.
And that was pvp and that was about skills of your character and gear you equipped. No frantic clicking or mouse movements could help you once some monster or stronger player got you.
And how you could get better in MUDs? Learn where you should not go if you were too weak or had no needed gear and learn what you could kill and what you could not kill.
Does it remind you of something? Only difference between those games and Eve is that you character basically can't be killed and once your ship get destroyed there is no need to go there to get your stuff back. I am not my skills but... http://eveboard.com/pilot/Schmata_Bastanold |

Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
987
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Posted - 2011.11.07 11:49:00 -
[35] - Quote
Daisai wrote:Funny how people call others trolls just because they cant defend their pov. If you play proper pvp games which are dependant on skill you will know why eve online isnt one of them. The only thing that might be a bit player controlled is your capacitor. Since you have close to no influence on the movement of your ships also no influence on the dps your ship does.
I love people who think like you because they mean that even people like me can get some PvP victories.
No influence on the movement of your ships - that's a good one! 
Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |

Daisai
Daisai Investments.
0
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Posted - 2011.11.07 12:21:00 -
[36] - Quote
Schmata Bastanold wrote:Daisai wrote:Funny how people call others trolls just because they cant defend their pov. If you play proper pvp games which are dependant on skill you will know why eve online isnt one of them. The only thing that might be a bit player controlled is your capacitor. Since you have close to no influence on the movement of your ships also no influence on the dps your ship does.
did you ever play any of MUDs, old school text based MMOs? I had and have to tell you that all you had to do to kill something/somebody was to type "kill" command with some parameters and fight was on. And you could type "drink potion" command to refill your hp or you could type "flee" command to attempt to run from engagement when fight was to hard. or you could just sit and watch lines of text reporting how it is going. And that was pvp and that was about skills of your character and gear you equipped. No frantic clicking or mouse movements could help you once some monster or stronger player got you. And how you could get better in MUDs? Learn where you should not go if you were too weak or had no needed gear and learn what you could kill and what you could not kill. Does it remind you of something? Only difference between those games and Eve is that you character basically can't be killed and once your ship get destroyed there is no need to go there to get your stuff back.
So you are comparing eve online gameplay to a textbased mmo. Ones again shows im right. And yes in eve you should learn where to not go, that is low and null sec.
And @malcanis learn to read. As i said you have close to no influence on your ship movement.
Yes you can align with a object at the right time or orbit at a certain range, only you will not have any influence on how your ship executes that order. But ah well people here seem to believe a 1 month old player who just got frigate level 5 can kill a 7 year old player also in a frigate. Both ofc skilling for "pvp".
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Schmata Bastanold
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
17
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Posted - 2011.11.07 12:38:00 -
[37] - Quote
Daisai wrote:Yes you can align with a object at the right time or orbit at a certain range, only you will not have any influence on how your ship executes that order.
ever heard of double click in space? :) apart from using proper modules ship reacts faster if your have relevant skills trained so I would say you have pretty decent control of your movement. I agree it is not like in Freelancer but still it is not that kind of game, being fast with pushing buttons is not core skill you have to develop as a player.
also order of things your ship does when you click "align to" is quite well known, the same for every type of ship and easy to observe. no mystery about it I think.
to be honest at first I was in shock when I realized how navigation is designed in Eve but know I think it is better than just relying on quick reflexes where I could not stand a chance against some 10 years old pumped on sugar and cola who plays15 hours per day.
you can say I am lying to myself about possibility to get better but it is your opinion and what can I do beside acknowledging it and politely refuse to agree? And of course I intend to keep doing what I think is right and play Eve how I see it to be fun. I am not my skills but... http://eveboard.com/pilot/Schmata_Bastanold |

Daisai
Daisai Investments.
0
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Posted - 2011.11.07 13:15:00 -
[38] - Quote
Quote:ever heard of double click in space?
Yes i know what it does, however since the interface isnt working that great just simply hit approach goes faster. Its the same as aligning.
Quote:apart from using proper modules ship reacts faster if your have relevant skills trained so I would say you have pretty decent control of your movement
Another comment which shows im right, it reguires skills. And like i said, higher sp and more skills learned allow for better performance on your ship.
Quote:being fast with pushing buttons is not core skill you have to develop as a player.
And that is why you dont need to be good in this game to be succesfull in pvp.
Quote:better than just relying on quick reflexes where I could not stand a chance against some 10 years old pumped on sugar and cola who plays15 hours per day.
Those huge amount of hours you play a day allow for better experience and therefor more gamingskills. Only since this is not the case you like said it ones again shows im right.
Quote:you can say I am lying to myself about possibility to get better but it is your opinion and what can I do beside acknowledging it and politely refuse to agree? And of course I intend to keep doing what I think is right and play Eve how I see it to be fun.
If you are saying that Eve online is a pvp game and one of the best pvp games then you are lying to yourself. The game can be fun that i dont disagree on, the community is what makes a game good or not.
However saying that you need to practice alot more to get "better" in this game is wrong. The basics of controls and normal gaming intellegence is all you need to be succesfull in this game, the rest is all about skillpoints and fittings. And ofc outnumbering your opponents. |

Schmata Bastanold
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
17
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Posted - 2011.11.07 13:35:00 -
[39] - Quote
What I really wanted to say is that pvp is present in Eve and it is not all about gate camps and blobs hiding behind every celestial. I don't deny that these things exists but to be honest I did not experienced them yet, at least not in very extreme way. Cases when I got podded or my lost my ship were in most times 1v1, at one or two occasions it was 2v1.
Does it mean blobs don't exists? No, but it does not mean that lowsec is crowded with them also. Matter of luck and being aware of your surroundings. Sometimes I fail at both sometimes only at one and sometimes I manage to apply my limited knowledge accordingly and not be helpless victim.
"Problem" with my posts and reported loses is that I go into lowsec specifically to get into fights and I go with my rifter because I am not trained to use more powerful ships yet. Is it isk efficient? Hell no. Is it fun for me? Hell yes.
And I am not saying Eve is best ever pvp. I am just saying it is good enough to be worth my money. You don't like it? Nobody forces you to play the way I do. Every one of us paid their subscriptions and everybody chooses his way of playing. But I am far from "pvp is dead, lowsec is blobfest" kind of sentences.
Funny thing is that to be honest now getting into uneven fights seems like fun for me but maybe after first rush I will switch into industry or PI or exploration or sitting at stations and chat with people. People who I met in lowsec, bt the way, where I went without calculating risk/gain ratio or other paperpushing bullshit.
I am not my skills but... http://eveboard.com/pilot/Schmata_Bastanold |

Cameron Zero
Red Federation
4
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Posted - 2011.11.07 17:02:00 -
[40] - Quote
Schmata Bastanold wrote:What I really wanted to say is that pvp is present in Eve
Might as well stop arguing with the guy who obviously believes the only real PVP is FPS games. You ain't gonna change his mind, and he isn't going to change yours. 
"I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. GǪ" |

Daisai
Daisai Investments.
0
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Posted - 2011.11.07 19:03:00 -
[41] - Quote
That fps comment makes absolute no sence. We are talking about pvp in mmo's not fps games.
And if you are that good in finding fights in lowsec you are free to show me. Who knows ... you might be right. |

Keno Skir
31
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Posted - 2011.11.07 19:07:00 -
[42] - Quote
Daisai wrote: If you are saying that Eve online is a pvp game and one of the best pvp games then you are lying to yourself. The game can be fun that i dont disagree on, the community is what makes a game good or not.
However saying that you need to practice alot more to get "better" in this game is wrong. The basics of controls and normal gaming intellegence is all you need to be succesfull in this game, the rest is all about skillpoints and fittings. And ofc outnumbering your opponents.
You need to play EvE for a long time to learn the real tactics, and while skill points are important knowledge of the game is of at least equal importance. However many sp you have if you turn up in a fail-fit you will get rinsed by people who really understand the game (which clearly isn't you since you demonstrate such a complete lack of afor-mentioned understanding). The Apostle : I want a kangeroo Captain Kirk : Silly Austrians Sarmatiko : Let me guess: you're from US? Captain Kirk : Yeah Riverside IA - why? |

Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
993
|
Posted - 2011.11.07 19:10:00 -
[43] - Quote
Daisai wrote: And @malcanis learn to read.
My heartfelt thanks to you for finally inspiring me to acquire this skill.
(And also for all the cheap killmails.) Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |

Daisai
Daisai Investments.
0
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Posted - 2011.11.07 19:32:00 -
[44] - Quote
Keno Skir wrote: You need to play EvE for a long time to learn the real tactics, and while skill points are important knowledge of the game is of at least equal importance. However many sp you have if you turn up in a fail-fit you will get rinsed by people who really understand the game (which clearly isn't you since you demonstrate such a complete lack of afor-mentioned understanding).
Thnx to fitting tools new players can get a good guideline on how to fit their ships. Yes if you show up in a failfit you die easily only those kind of players im not talking about.
Your comment towards me is based on nothing and is a failattempt by you in trying to proof your point. |

Daisai
Daisai Investments.
0
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Posted - 2011.11.07 19:34:00 -
[45] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Daisai wrote: And @malcanis learn to read.
My heartfelt thanks to you for finally inspiring me to acquire this skill. (And also for all the cheap killmails.)
Good luck on getting those killmails, not like you will be seeing me in low/null any time soon. |

Zoe Alarhun
The Proactive Reappropriation Corporation
48
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Posted - 2011.11.10 06:21:00 -
[46] - Quote
Player skill in PvP does definetely exist. It's a combination of fast reactions, good decision making and game knowledge.
Clicking in space so you approach at a angle to avoid fire from a larger ships guns. The slingshot maneuver to catch a fast ship and pin them down. These are 2 examples of just movement which involve more than just clicking orbit and turning on your guns.
Player knowledge - things like if you jump into a gate camp, not returning fire (so you don't get aggro) then overheating your MWD to the gate and jumping through leaving everyone that aggressed you behind on the other side. Things like GCC, range of guns etc. Not overheating your guns till your target hits shields peak recharge so you can break through. Common ship fittings, what kind of capabilities enemy ships have.
Fast reactions - Things like keeping a eye on d-scan while fighting, reacting to sudden changes in target speed or direction. Things like pulling drones and redeploying them constantly to get your opponent to waste time retargetting them.
So yeah there's alot of stuff that isn't governed by Skill Points. So its possible to improve other than training more skill points. |
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