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Skeltek
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Posted - 2006.01.27 11:57:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Skeltek on 27/01/2006 11:59:23
Hi,
I just wrote an answer to a post in the skills forum and thought it might be a good Idea to copy the content here, since it would more probably seen by the developers if I put it in here. I just copied the most important part and pasted it below:
"To be totaly honest, the skill tactical shield manipulation is a disadvantage.
Shields recharge the fastest, when aproximately at 25-33%
Shield is similar to Capacitor -> if it is almost empty, it does not recharge fast. It needs to be partialy existant in order to recharge fast.
If my shields EVER fall below 25%, I am desperate to keep them above 20% or my shield recharge will drop to almost zero.
I would rather get my armor damaged a small bit
instead of
reducing my Shield recharge rate to zero by not letting any damage through to armor(letting it drop even futher below 25%).
It is like the old ECM skill thing. While at first look it seemed to be an advantage that the skill increased the duration; people tried to keep their electronic warfare skill to level 1, in order to be able to target jamm more targets in the same amount of time(it needed 5 seconds to jamm a second target; before the first target(cruiser for example) could re-target you, you could switch back to jamming it again).
The EW "skill above level1"-disadvantage has been fixed,
but regarding Tactical shield manipulation, it is a matter of discussion, wether the effect is a benefit or disadvantage."
If my shields drop below 25%, I would rather have my armor damaged a bit than completely annihiliating my passive shield recharge.
kind regards, Skeltek
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Macro Slasher
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Posted - 2006.01.27 12:10:00 -
[2]
So if I start smashing your face with my fist and when it really starts hurting you would want it to hurt at your butt? No, seriously... If I hit you in the shields and they are between my weapon and you, they have to get hurt.
Focus on keeping above that 20-25%.
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Anwyl
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Posted - 2006.01.27 13:13:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: Macro Slasher
So if I start smashing your face with my fist and when it really starts hurting you would want it to hurt at your butt? No, seriously... If I hit you in the shields and they are between my weapon and you, they have to get hurt.
Focus on keeping above that 20-25%.
Uhh... that's not what he's saying, he's saying that if someone punches you in the face, you don't want a skill that forces them to aim for the eyes :-) I think it's a quite valid point too... damage puncturing CAN actually be a good thing, removing it is hardly skillworthy. Perhaps a module, but not a skill. All skills should have no downside, as they can't be turned off.
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Za Po
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Posted - 2006.01.27 13:21:00 -
[4]
Good point. Really good point. In fact, I'm not going to train TSM until this is addressed. I can't really think of a fix that doesn't involve removing TSM, though.
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This solution to BM-related server resource usage can reduce lag with the same interface. |
j0sephine
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Posted - 2006.01.27 14:25:00 -
[5]
"If my shields drop below 25%, I would rather have my armor damaged a bit than completely annihiliating my passive shield recharge."
This skill was fixed in game (it used to be broken) because when it was working the way you ask it to work, it was a common occurence to get your ship blown up while the shield tank technically never broke -- the damage would seep into armour and then structure at quite significant rate because unlike shield, these layers aren't hardened on regular shield tank, and after few hits you'd find yourself literally out of ship your shields could protect.
That this skill exists is not disadvantage. it's life saver.
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Anwyl
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Posted - 2006.01.27 14:45:00 -
[6]
The skill is nice and specialized, in a shield tank, it'd be nice, but in a hybridized ship, where you're trying to maintain your shields, but you can fall back on armor, it'll force you to fall back on armor sooner as faster regen is sort of like more shields, it does have advantages, but every other skill has no situation in which it is a bad thing as far as I know.
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Britannica
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Posted - 2006.01.27 16:49:00 -
[7]
active shield hardeners need the tactical shield manipulation skill for you to use them so it is not wasted time training this skill
personally I'd rather someone has to get my shields to 0% before they can hit the armour
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Skeltek
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Posted - 2006.01.28 11:40:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Skeltek on 28/01/2006 11:45:36
Originally by: Macro Slasher
So if I start smashing your face with my fist and when it really starts hurting you would want it to hurt at your butt? No, seriously... If I hit you in the shields and they are between my weapon and you, they have to get hurt.
Focus on keeping above that 20-25%.
I think you did not get the point. If you really want me to answer your question... I would rather have my gauntlett-protected Arm damaged a bit instead of getting my helmless skull broken.
I have no problem with the skill breaking someone else¦s passive shield recharge, since I myself never fall below 25% when tanking 4 BS, but I just wanted to point out something, that nobody seemed to recognize yet.
It can be a disadvantage simply. Even though my shields are 4-6 times sturdier than the armor, I would prefer getting my armor damaged a small bit in an emergency case instead of loosing shield tank and get the whole ship blown up.
kind regards, Skeltek
ps: Hoshi had a good Idea in another thread which I still have to verify.
Originally by: Hoshi
And I'm not sure if this has been tested but it wouldn't suprice me if it infact had no negative effect and that the seepthru is extra damage taken instead of damage moved from shield to armor.
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2006.01.28 16:00:00 -
[9]
"It can be a disadvantage simply. Even though my shields are 4-6 times sturdier than the armor, I would prefer getting my armor damaged a small bit in an emergency case instead of loosing shield tank and get the whole ship blown up."
Except the practice has shown that when game works the way you ask for, it's exactly this 'small bit of armour damage' that gets the whole ship blown up. Not lack of passive recharge...
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Corp Scammer
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Posted - 2006.01.29 11:16:00 -
[10]
train TSM to level 5 the % chance of breakthrough drops to 0% problem solved really
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Adonis 4174
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Posted - 2006.01.29 12:43:00 -
[11]
Here's an idea.
Currently shield recharge slows down once you're below 25%, right?
Make every level of TSM also reduce that figure by 1% to give you that little bit of extra damage capacity without killing your passive recharge.
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Caldari battle chef
I was a geek before it was cool |
Kldraina
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Posted - 2006.01.30 00:33:00 -
[12]
Having damage bypass shields can be helpful when a ship has an armor tank that is augmented by passive shield regen, or a passive shield tank that also has heavy armor underneath. It is not expected to help a pure shield tank.
The OP was simply pointing out that there are some circumstances (and ship setups) where it could be benificial to have damage start hitting armor, before the shields are completely down. Because of this, the effect of Tactical Shield Manipulation is not always desired. |
Skeltek
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Posted - 2006.01.31 11:35:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Skeltek on 31/01/2006 11:35:31
Originally by: Corp Scammer
train TSM to level 5 the % chance of breakthrough drops to 0% problem solved really
Exactly that IS the problem.
Originally by: Kldraina
Having damage bypass shields can be helpful when a ship has an armor tank that is augmented by passive shield regen, or a passive shield tank that also has heavy armor underneath. It is not expected to help a pure shield tank.
The OP was simply pointing out that there are some circumstances (and ship setups) where it could be benificial to have damage start hitting armor, before the shields are completely down. Because of this, the effect of Tactical Shield Manipulation is not always desired.
You got the point. Usualy if the NPCs deal less damage than your maximum passive shield recharge can compensate, you usualy stay above 25%. If you ever drop below 25%, that means the NPCs dealt more damage per minute than your passive could recharge.
I would be happy for every single second, which my armor can be used to keep shield recharge stay on for at least a little bit longer.
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Zarch AlDain
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Posted - 2006.01.31 23:49:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Skeltek
Edited by: Skeltek on 31/01/2006 11:35:31
Originally by: Corp Scammer
train TSM to level 5 the % chance of breakthrough drops to 0% problem solved really
Exactly that IS the problem.
Originally by: Kldraina
Having damage bypass shields can be helpful when a ship has an armor tank that is augmented by passive shield regen, or a passive shield tank that also has heavy armor underneath. It is not expected to help a pure shield tank.
The OP was simply pointing out that there are some circumstances (and ship setups) where it could be benificial to have damage start hitting armor, before the shields are completely down. Because of this, the effect of Tactical Shield Manipulation is not always desired.
You got the point. Usualy if the NPCs deal less damage than your maximum passive shield recharge can compensate, you usualy stay above 25%. If you ever drop below 25%, that means the NPCs dealt more damage per minute than your passive could recharge.
I would be happy for every single second, which my armor can be used to keep shield recharge stay on for at least a little bit longer.
But quite a few of my shield tanked ships have no armour repair at all, I find it annoying when damage starts going through onto armour.
How about rather than a 5% reduction in penetration it gives a 2% reduction in the point at which regen slows and a 3% penetration reduction.
i.e. TSM 3 gives you a 9% reduction in penetration chance and optimal shield regen from 19% upwards.
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