EVE Search - Freighters need attention

All Channels

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Freighters need attention

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: [1] 2 :: one page
Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Cardano Firesnake Babylon Knights Renegades Council 78	Posted - 2013.10.13 10:21:00 - [1] - Quote Freighters and Jump freighters will suffer of the incomming changes in Rubicon. The travel time will be longer and the time to align will be longer letting more time for gankers to come, same gankers that will arrive quicker if they are in destroyers... I love the new warp mechanics but I think the freighters and jump freighters must be revamp to match with the new Eve conditions. To me the best thing would be to give 3 or 4 low slots on Freighters and Jump Freighters. The caracteristics would be the same as now if the Freighters have 3 or 4 Expanded cargohold II. same speed, same capavity same inertia... If you remove the expanded cargoholds to put nanofibers or tank you will lose cargo capacity but gain tank ability or mobility....
Gypsio III Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork 890	Posted - 2013.10.13 10:37:00 - [2] - Quote Is it just me or are the whines about freighters now more tedious than the whines about cloaking?
Danika Princip Freelance Economics Astrological resources Tactical Narcotics Team 1805	Posted - 2013.10.13 10:46:00 - [3] - Quote You do realise that would be a huge freighter nerf, right?
Sipphakta en Gravonere 4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation 317	Posted - 2013.10.13 11:03:00 - [4] - Quote Cardano Firesnake wrote: and the time to align will be longer letting more time for gankers to come, same gankers that will arrive quicker if they are in destroyers... The align time doesn't change, as far as I can tell. To quote the devpost on warp speed: Quote: It's important to note that this change does not affect align time. This only changes the amount of time a ship spends from when they enter warp (when they become unlockable) until they exit. In short: Your suggestion is bad, has been posted dozens of times already and is based on a false understanding of the changes about to come. I say tomato, you say tomaCCP BAN ALL TOMATOES THEY ARE HARASSING ME I WANT TOMATO FREE HIGHSEC. -- TheGunslinger42
Lair Osen Unlawful Unit Initiative Mercenaries 54	Posted - 2013.10.13 11:46:00 - [5] - Quote The Warp speed has also been increased so you should actually be doing longer warps faster.
Cardano Firesnake Babylon Knights Renegades Council 78	Posted - 2013.10.13 15:14:00 - [6] - Quote I tried on sisi and the time before entering warp is longer. http://cdn1.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/65063/1/WarpSpeedBefore.jpg http://cdn1.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/65063/1/WarpSpeedAfter.jpg Perharps it is not because of the align time but it is longer. I do not see what is the problem with my proposition. This is more about have choice like on any other ships. You would have the choice between a big cargohold or tank or mobility. Perharps there is another option. B But I think that for the moment the freighters are not really interestening to fly. It is just another boring thing to do to move assets between A to B.
Sipphakta en Gravonere 4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation 317	Posted - 2013.10.13 15:18:00 - [7] - Quote Cardano Firesnake wrote: I tried on sisi and the time before entering warp is longer. http://cdn1.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/65063/1/WarpSpeedBefore.jpg http://cdn1.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/65063/1/WarpSpeedAfter.jpg Those 2 linked graphics don't say anything about time before entering warp. To clarify: The time that you are able to be targeted and/or bumped DID NOT CHANGE at all. Quote: I do not see what is the problem with my proposition. This is more about have choice like on any other ships. You would have the choice between a big cargohold or tank or mobility. Perharps there is another option. B But I think that for the moment the freighters are not really interestening to fly. It is just another boring thing to do to move assets between A to B. Please read the dozens of other threads about this idea. It has been discussed plenty of times. I say tomato, you say tomaCCP BAN ALL TOMATOES THEY ARE HARASSING ME I WANT TOMATO FREE HIGHSEC. -- TheGunslinger42
Domanique Altares Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance 1804	Posted - 2013.10.13 15:58:00 - [8] - Quote Cardano Firesnake wrote: But I think that for the moment the freighters are not really interestening to fly. It is just another boring thing to do to move assets between A to B. Here's a radical solution to your problem: Stop doing ** that you find boring. Rifterlings pirate corporation is now recruiting pilots for lowsec solo & small gang operations. Visit our website at www.rifterlings.com or join our in game channel weflyrifters** to speak to a recruiter.
ShahFluffers Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance 3414	Posted - 2013.10.13 18:02:00 - [9] - Quote Pre-warp ship alignment isn't going to change. What will change is the ACCELERATION and DECELERATION inside the warp tunnel. And if you look at the charts that CCP Fozzie provided in his Warp Change post... - Freighters will take longer to make short warps (<50 AU) - Freighters will actually warp faster over long warps (>50 AU). Cardano Firesnake wrote: But I think that for the moment the freighters are not really interestening to fly. It is just another boring thing to do to move assets between A to B. Maybe because that's really the only thing they are designed to do? I mean... moving stuff is fundamentally not interesting unless you are going through low-sec or null-sec in a non-jump capable ship. Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective.
Cardano Firesnake Babylon Knights Renegades Council 80	Posted - 2013.10.14 18:25:00 - [10] - Quote Thank you for your answers. The charts show that warps will take more time when they are shorter than about 60 to 70 AU.... I think that most of the warps are shorter than that so the travels will take mare time. They already are very long.... Freight is boring and dangerous, and you have not a lot option to change this fact... And thanks for the suggestion such as "dn't do it" but it is not the point. In fact I already don't do it. I think that this game should be a game of choices. But with freighters the choice is "flying or not flying a freighter". I don't know... But there is probably something to do to make this more interestening for everybody...
Bischopt Arbitrary Repossession 251	Posted - 2013.10.14 18:38:00 - [11] - Quote Cardano Firesnake wrote: Thank you for your answers. The charts show that warps will take more time when they are shorter than about 60 to 70 AU.... I think that most of the warps are shorter than that so the travels will take mare time. They already are very long.... Freight is boring and dangerous, and you have not a lot option to change this fact... And thanks for the suggestion such as "dn't do it" but it is not the point. In fact I already don't do it. I think that this game should be a game of choices. But with freighters the choice is "flying or not flying a freighter". I don't know... But there is probably something to do to make this more interestening for everybody... Dangerous and boring huh. Unless you're dead inside, those two things pretty much cancel each other out.
Oswaldos Sine Nobilitatis 13	Posted - 2013.10.14 18:56:00 - [12] - Quote Low slots have defiantly been proposed on freighters in the past. I think it will eventually come down to it .. though you might not like it because it will likely be followed by a base EHP nerf. I do know one thing though i would expect capitals to be rebalanced summer of 2014 and with that freighters will be looked at
ShahFluffers Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance 3439	Posted - 2013.10.14 19:38:00 - [13] - Quote Quote: I don't know... But there is probably something to do to make this more interestening for everybody... How could you ever make the hauling of goods and supplies interesting? Hint: adding slots won't change anything. And as said before, any slots added to a freighter will result in... - a reduction of raw hp (because of armor, shield and hull mods) - a reduction of cargo space (because of cargo expanders) - a reduction in agility (because of nanofibers and inertial stabs) ... all because people have this terrible habit of min/maxing the stats of ships... which often has undesireable consequences. Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective.
Zan Shiro Alternative Enterprises 242	Posted - 2013.10.15 05:47:00 - [14] - Quote Gypsio III wrote: Is it just me or are the whines about freighters now more tedious than the whines about cloaking? not just you.... they now its a big fat slow ship when they train for it they buy it like that then complain after Secret to freightering is find ways to entertain yourself on long hauls. In rl this is why truckers have the cb radios. Besides finding out where the state po po are at they pass the time shooting the crap. Alt tab and do something else during the warp or run in window mode and bounce the active window as needed. Learn this lesson well, you will reuse if you ever go to the blob. You do the same thing on bash ops. Or....buy a transport and a orca to make smaller hauls go faster. I used transports for small high value cargo. Zips right along. And I travel fit an orca for medium loads. Avoid cargo mod/rigs.....you want speed/agility/ soon warp. While not an inty obviously some speed/agility mods gets orca noticeably better for moving around in.
McBorsk Multispace Technologies Inc Yulai Federation 17	Posted - 2013.10.15 06:11:00 - [15] - Quote 20 catalysts can gank it apparently. That brings the cargo you can safely carry down to what? 500m? They need more tank.
Zan Shiro Alternative Enterprises 242	Posted - 2013.10.15 08:00:00 - [16] - Quote McBorsk wrote: 20 catalysts can gank it apparently. That brings the cargo you can safely carry down to what? 500m? They need more tank. where was this at? Here is my take on this. If valid 20 people came fit to spec and followed orders to get the kill under the shot clock that is concord saying hi. Kill kind of deserved there. I have seen much smaller roams where up to half of the roamers could not get their head and their ass wired straight and we were just ineffective (some times I sucked too....I'll take my share of blame lol). Wrong fit, not following fc commands, tard mistakes....we were just out of sync. 20 peeps all on the same sheet of music.....stuff is going to die. This is harder to get working in game than some realize. More players involved, more chances for more people to mess something up.
McBorsk Multispace Technologies Inc Yulai Federation 18	Posted - 2013.10.15 08:39:00 - [17] - Quote http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=20010008 http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=20012022 http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=20009363 Can't be that hard since their fleets are open to anyone.
Naomi Knight Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 488	Posted - 2013.10.15 08:41:00 - [18] - Quote Zan Shiro wrote: McBorsk wrote: 20 catalysts can gank it apparently. That brings the cargo you can safely carry down to what? 500m? They need more tank. where was this at? Here is my take on this. If valid 20 people came fit to spec and followed orders to get the kill under the shot clock that is concord saying hi. Kill kind of deserved there. I have seen much smaller roams where up to half of the roamers could not get their head and their ass wired straight and we were just ineffective (some times I sucked too....I'll take my share of blame lol). Wrong fit, not following fc commands, tard mistakes....we were just out of sync. 20 peeps all on the same sheet of music.....stuff is going to die. This is harder to get working in game than some realize. More players involved, more chances for more people to mess something up. lol sure... dont try to tell us it is hard to do cause it is not
Dav Varan Spiritus Draconis Sicarius Draconis 65	Posted - 2013.10.15 08:56:00 - [19] - Quote Time for freighters and JF to get mod and rigs slots imo. 3 mids 3 low 3 rig each. No high slots Some increase in cc will help ofset longer travel times. Increase packaged volume of carriers to stop them being carried of course.
McBorsk Multispace Technologies Inc Yulai Federation 18	Posted - 2013.10.15 09:04:00 - [20] - Quote Sure. That would do it. 3 t1 cargo rigs + expanders = whatever amount you can carry today. Then you could sacrifice m3 capacity for tank or speed. 3 rig slots and 3 lows would do it for me. No need to bring cloaks and mwds into this.
Sipphakta en Gravonere 4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation 322	Posted - 2013.10.15 09:25:00 - [21] - Quote Naomi Knight wrote: lol sure... dont try to tell us it is hard to do cause it is not If freighter ganking is so easy, why do so few freighters die to ganks? I say tomato, you say tomaCCP BAN ALL TOMATOES THEY ARE HARASSING ME I WANT TOMATO FREE HIGHSEC. -- TheGunslinger42
Zan Shiro Alternative Enterprises 242	Posted - 2013.10.15 11:16:00 - [22] - Quote Naomi Knight wrote: lol sure... dont try to tell us it is hard to do cause it is not hate to be a **** but....when the top posts from your fellow fw players are whines about warp stabs in fw plexes it is apparently hard for fw to get 2-4 people to overpower the warp stabs to tackle and drop targets. If fw can't get this done with just 2-4 people, you tell me how easy it is to get 20 people working right. Also I said I wanted to see a mail or real info of some kind. I smell wt kill personally but I would go I am impressed If I saw a real deal api checked km for a gank. Under a war dec...I can get 20 people to kill a charon with 20 noob ships. It take forever, but it would die.
Sipphakta en Gravonere 4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation 322	Posted - 2013.10.15 11:30:00 - [23] - Quote Zan Shiro wrote: Also I said I wanted to see a mail or real info of some kind. http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=19999852 for example, 21 catalysts http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=19999599 or that, 19 catalysts. You can do the math yourself: Charon has 182k ehp versus void (all level 5 character). In a 0.5 system you have around 19 seconds to kill, so you need about 9600 dps. Let's make it 10k to accommodate for people not in their optimals, firing late etc. A full-gank catalyst (Neutron IIs, Void, 3 Magstab, Burst/Collision rig) does 686 dps (without implants). Of course you have to make sure the freighter is bumped out of range of the gate guns. Catalysts don't react too well to gate gun fire. I say tomato, you say tomaCCP BAN ALL TOMATOES THEY ARE HARASSING ME I WANT TOMATO FREE HIGHSEC. -- TheGunslinger42
Lucas Kell JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance 1217	Posted - 2013.10.15 13:47:00 - [24] - Quote Sipphakta en Gravonere wrote: Naomi Knight wrote: lol sure... dont try to tell us it is hard to do cause it is not If freighter ganking is so easy, why do so few freighters die to ganks? What? How do you consider the amount that die as "few"? 8 died in Niarja yesterday alone. And that's a weekday. With overheated T2 catalysts you actually need less than 10 people, and they need to be able to target and shoot, nothing more. http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=20012022 This one was 13 catalysts and a noobship (noobship probably to trigger logoff timer). So assuming they are T2s, that's 130m of catalysts at a standard fit, making the freighter profitable if carrying more than 260m (which in this case he had a lot more). 130m for a freighter gank? Yes please, I can provide 4 gank characters alone. Danika Princip wrote: You do realise that would be a huge freighter nerf, right? This is onoe of those moronic standard responses that assume that a) CCP are unable to balance changes without a nerf and b) that the freighters would not in fact be buffed to bring their EHP to a more reasonable level. I'm personally a fan of giving freighters slots and moving more HP from hull to shield, so people can choose to tank against a single damage time or omnitank, etc. As they currently are, they are boring, no choice in fittings, no right way or wrong way to fit them. A simple spreadsheet can calculate how many catas it will take to drop any freighter, with no variation based on fit. It would be nice to have to scan a freighter and figure out how to gank that particular fit, rather than the current fixed EHP system. Sipphakta en Gravonere wrote: Charon has 182k ehp versus void (all level 5 character). In a 0.5 system you have around 19 seconds to kill, so you need about 9600 dps. Let's make it 10k to accommodate for people not in their optimals, firing late etc. A full-gank catalyst (Neutron IIs, Void, 3 Magstab, Burst/Collision rig) does 686 dps (without implants). In a prepped system you actually get 25 seconds of gank so you require considerably less than this. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff.
Lucas Kell JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance 1217	Posted - 2013.10.15 13:50:00 - [25] - Quote Zan Shiro wrote: McBorsk wrote: 20 catalysts can gank it apparently. That brings the cargo you can safely carry down to what? 500m? They need more tank. where was this at? Here is my take on this. If valid 20 people came fit to spec and followed orders to get the kill under the shot clock that is concord saying hi. Kill kind of deserved there. I have seen much smaller roams where up to half of the roamers could not get their head and their ass wired straight and we were just ineffective (some times I sucked too....I'll take my share of blame lol). Wrong fit, not following fc commands, tard mistakes....we were just out of sync. 20 peeps all on the same sheet of music.....stuff is going to die. This is harder to get working in game than some realize. More players involved, more chances for more people to mess something up. Actually, its really not hard at all. You just need people to lock and shoot. As there is a fixed limit of EHP too, the rule about more players does not hold. More players actually gives more room for error, which is why if you've got the player count it's better to throw like 40 T1s at a gank. 40 T1s cost the same as 8 T2s, and you'd need like half of them to epically fail the gank to stop the freighter going down. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff.
Sipphakta en Gravonere 4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation 322	Posted - 2013.10.15 14:24:00 - [26] - Quote Lucas Kell wrote: Sipphakta en Gravonere wrote: Naomi Knight wrote: lol sure... dont try to tell us it is hard to do cause it is not If freighter ganking is so easy, why do so few freighters die to ganks? What? How do you consider the amount that die as "few"? 8 died in Niarja yesterday alone. And that's a weekday. Compared to the amount of freighters that pass through there daily, yes, that's very few. Currently eve-kill lists 210 dead freighters/jump freighters, that is 14 freighters per day, including kills in low/null/WH-space and wartarget kills. In all of Eve. So, yeah, that is very few. Quote: 130m for a freighter gank? Yes please, I can provide 4 gank characters alone. Good. If freighter ganking is so easy and profitable, why do so few freighters die (compared to the number of freighters flying in Eve)? And why do so few freighters worth 300M ISK die? You still need bumpers, suicide aggressors and a looter. And even then you can't be sure to actually get any of the loot because other people can freely shoot the looter. A single griffin will stop 3 gank catalysts from dealing damage, 4 blackbirds will easily stop a gank. Freighters are fine as it is, they could do with a slight increase in warp speed and agility, but their tank certainly is enough, or else there would be more dead freighters. Sipphakta en Gravonere wrote: In a prepped system you actually get 25 seconds of gank so you require considerably less than this. True, but 1.) not all systems are properly prepped, 2.) sometimes CONCORD forgets that the system was prepped and arrives at the non-prepped time. (I failed multiple ganks due to having 5-6 seconds less than expected.) I say tomato, you say tomaCCP BAN ALL TOMATOES THEY ARE HARASSING ME I WANT TOMATO FREE HIGHSEC. -- TheGunslinger42
Bethan Le Troix Krusual Investigation Agency 22	Posted - 2013.10.15 17:03:00 - [27] - Quote There have been a number of these threads and I fully expect there will be more. Off the top of my head I cannot think of much good coming from any of the 'rebalancing' of ships process to date. As others have pointed out the 'rebalancing' generally nerfs some aspect of all ships that are touched by it. The 'rebalancing' of some of the ships, notably the mining vessel changes, also tend to have a knock-on effect to other parts of the game such as the economy etc. Fiddling with the Freighters which are alright as they are will also obviously have an effect on the economy and pricing. Also the resultant 'extra materials' which supposedly have to be added once a ship is rebalanced will disrupt the viable production of Freighters for a considerably long time. From start to finish touching the Freighters statistics will be a bad idea. It might be nice to have a set of half-sized Freighters introduced as well but if the 'extra materials' is a condition for that then I would gladly decline any changes to Freighters.
Cardano Firesnake Babylon Knights Renegades Council 82	Posted - 2013.10.16 03:08:00 - [28] - Quote Zan Shiro wrote: McBorsk wrote: 20 catalysts can gank it apparently. That brings the cargo you can safely carry down to what? 500m? They need more tank. where was this at? Here is my take on this. If valid 20 people came fit to spec and followed orders to get the kill under the shot clock that is concord saying hi. Kill kind of deserved there. I have seen much smaller roams where up to half of the roamers could not get their head and their ass wired straight and we were just ineffective (some times I sucked too....I'll take my share of blame lol). Wrong fit, not following fc commands, tard mistakes....we were just out of sync. 20 peeps all on the same sheet of music.....stuff is going to die. This is harder to get working in game than some realize. More players involved, more chances for more people to mess something up. In fact it is really easy to do.. And multiboxing can do it easily.
Lucas Kell JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance 1284	Posted - 2013.10.16 10:17:00 - [29] - Quote Bethan Le Troix wrote: There have been a number of these threads and I fully expect there will be more. Off the top of my head I cannot think of much good coming from any of the 'rebalancing' of ships process to date. As others have pointed out the 'rebalancing' generally nerfs some aspect of all ships that are touched by it. The 'rebalancing' of some of the ships, notably the mining vessel changes, also tend to have a knock-on effect to other parts of the game such as the economy etc. Fiddling with the Freighters which are alright as they are will also obviously have an effect on the economy and pricing. Also the resultant 'extra materials' which supposedly have to be added once a ship is rebalanced will disrupt the viable production of Freighters for a considerably long time. From start to finish touching the Freighters statistics will be a bad idea. It might be nice to have a set of half-sized Freighters introduced as well but if the 'extra materials' is a condition for that then I would gladly decline any changes to Freighters. What about the fact that other ships and weapons, and concord have been balanced since freighters were put in, and freighters are now hundreds of times easier to gank than they were when they were first implemented. Surely freighters are now due for their balance just to keep them in line. It used to be considerably more rare to see a freighter get ganked than it is now. Now it's at the very least a daily occurrence. The cost to gank a freighter is so low that they can barely fill their hold with junk without becoming profitable to kill. Either they need to be fair and give freighters the rebalance they deserve or they need to look again at the ships targeting them. I don't even bother with a freighter any more. With the items I tend to shift, by the time I get to about 40k m3, I'm already too profitable to shift, so I just use my orca. When I've got something high volume, lower value, I just get red-frog, PushX or a free freighter service to shift it for me so they cover my loss. The cost of a freighter vs it's inherent risk makes it a truly awful investment. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff.
Draconigea Angry Angels Nachrichtendienst 5	Posted - 2013.10.16 10:42:00 - [30] - Quote Lucas Kell wrote: What about the fact that other ships and weapons, and concord have been balanced since freighters were put in, and freighters are now hundreds of times easier to gank than they were when they were first implemented. Surely freighters are now due for their balance just to keep them in line. It used to be considerably more rare to see a freighter get ganked than it is now. Now it's at the very least a daily occurrence. The cost to gank a freighter is so low that they can barely fill their hold with junk without becoming profitable to kill. Either they need to be fair and give freighters the rebalance they deserve or they need to look again at the ships targeting them. I don't even bother with a freighter any more. With the items I tend to shift, by the time I get to about 40k m3, I'm already too profitable to shift, so I just use my orca. When I've got something high volume, lower value, I just get red-frog, PushX or a free freighter service to shift it for me so they cover my loss. The cost of a freighter vs it's inherent risk makes it a truly awful investment. But it is also very easy to make a freighter gankproof, or at least scanproof. First, get an alt, then get a Rapier, fit 2-3 webbers and learn Recon Ships at least to 4. This will get you a 34km webbing ship, which is enough for nearly every distance after a jump. So you will have an align time of something round one second, which is just limited by the targeting time of the Rapier. The fastest Cargo-Scanner needs 3 seconds + targeting time. And noone will gank a freighter, if it is not scanned. Ok, you need two accounts for this thing, but if you do so, you can haul 100 Mrd in a freighter, with no risk at all. (If you don't tell anyone ^^) It is much safer, than this courier-container thing. In this case the scanner WILL see that you hide something...and nobody hauls empty containers. But I don't fly my freighter without my Rapier-Webbing-Escort, even if the freighter is empty. And last but not least...you are fast as hell ^^

Pages: [1] 2 :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.