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Telemicus Thrace	Posted - 2006.01.28 10:01:00 - [31] Originally by: Creslin ...in real wars boarding ships has always been a big part of fighting... alot of pirates made most of their money from capturing ships not sinking them.. if you really get into it... it wouldnt be to hard imo to add a ruleset for this, make the boarding ship dock with the target ship, require more than one boarding ship if the target is big, make them slow and such... it would really add an interesting element to piracy and even some alliance warfare situations.. honestly its no different than blowing the ship up out for the person it happens too, it just makes piracy more worthwhile... and would add an element of team play and another dimension to pvp. ... I agree but I think it should be implemented in a more balanced fashion than the mod proposed. Star Fleet Command had the element of marine combat teams that could board an enemy ship and take it over, alternatively they could stay on board and fight enemy boarding parties. Perhaps 'marine' teams could be added as a crew element and board enemy ships using specilised drone ships? Interesting idea. "I cannot hear what you say for the thunder of what you are." - Zulu proverb.
Ginger Magician	Posted - 2006.01.28 10:16:00 - [32] Originally by: Famine Aligher'ri Piracy is a combat trade. You have more modules avaliable to you than the mining trade. I have no idea where you come up with that you don't. Miners don't need implants to enhance there shooting. I mean there miners for god sakes. Yet you have the option of implants to increase your damage ect. Not up untill now that is. Bounty Hunters are weak now. We have a usless bounty system in place. No real good system has been thought up for these trades to utilize that. Yet you want more on your trade why? Piracy is rather easy to do. Only problems you face really is WCS users and people who can fight back. Other than that, any simple combat pilot can do it. Just like any simple pilot can tank sentry gunfire in ships as small as a cruiser. Just to kill some easy target approuching the gate. In my simple opinion piracy needs to be made harder. Most part it seems to be getting that way with belt piracy. More people using WCS while npcing or mining. Which makes it harder for pirates to easily kill players. That's something all pirates need to adapt too. Otherwise you're asking for eve to put it on easy mode for you because you choose not to fit for the fight. Also the sentry guns need to be buffed or atleast something in place that randomizes there buffness. It's to easy to tank and rather boring killing easy targets. 0.0 is something also that allows a pirate more freedom. Which noone takes that step to go into. Why? For the simple fact it's to easy to kill people in low security empire. I mean look at all the popular tankCEO wannbees and ect. They do nothing but camp popular gates and roam around hitting it easy. Too easy. ROFL.I nominate this post for the most ignorant of 2006 awards
Arcticblue2	Posted - 2006.01.28 10:29:00 - [33] lets face it Piracy is PvP and PvP constantly get new ships and weapons ... what you want is a "I win" button. Yes I can fit Stabs on my ship and I gimp it if I do... or I can put on better equipment but I risk getting taken out. A friend of mine got ganked by a pirate inside the mission he was doing. Ofcourse the pirate was not getting any good loot from it because it was blown up. ---------------------------------------------- "When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I felt as a child, I thought as a child: now that I am become a man, I have put away childish things." 1 cor.
Keta Min	Posted - 2006.01.28 10:44:00 - [34] the 15min criminal flag is really useless and doesn't help anyone. not the pirate, not the victim and not the ones who come to avenge (yea right) the victim. removing this and only having sentries agress you when you illegaly shoot someone near them would be a start.
Alex Kynes	Posted - 2006.01.28 10:53:00 - [35] Originally by: Keta Min the 15min criminal flag is really useless and doesn't help anyone. not the pirate, not the victim and not the ones who come to avenge (yea right) the victim. removing this and only having sentries agress you when you illegaly shoot someone near them would be a start. Agreed. I mean, what the hell is that criminal flag good for anyways!? The aggressor will most likely just sit at a SS and have a swing of Quafe, that, and waste 15 minutes of his playtime. How counter-fun is that? Very if you ask me. In short. Aggression timer is a bleedin' joke! /AK
Vampire Blade	Posted - 2006.01.28 11:03:00 - [36] I don't want an 'I win' button at all, I just want some of the pointless elements removed and the whole profession made more efficient. I don't care about stabs, what I do hate is the 15 minutes downtime and security status reduction for scrambling someone who is going to warp out 3 seconds later. ----- ----- -----
Kye Kenshin	Posted - 2006.01.28 12:07:00 - [37] To be honest your never gonna make much money out of low sec piracy due to most targets having worthless loot. 15min timer never bothered me when i practiced belt piracy as theres no sentries in belts. The only thing that should be implemented is a ransom function as others have suggested before.
Karmic	Posted - 2006.01.28 12:40:00 - [38] Originally by: Ginger Magician Originally by: Famine Aligher'ri 0.0 is something also that allows a pirate more freedom. Which noone takes that step to go into. Why? For the simple fact it's to easy to kill people in low security empire. I mean look at all the popular tankCEO wannbees and ect. They do nothing but camp popular gates and roam around hitting it easy. Too easy. ROFL.I nominate this post for the most ignorant of 2006 awards lol that post sounds like a discription of you gingah and its not an ignorant post. Maybe you should borrow a magic wand, far classier than a magic hat, it might help you out with your Farjung issue's :P hey are you going to war dec us when he rejoins ? Pls go on :) you know you want to. - - - - - - - - -
Fellhand	Posted - 2006.01.28 12:47:00 - [39] Originally by: Keta Min the 15min criminal flag is really useless and doesn't help anyone. Actually, I've found it very useful. I actually have the option of siccing a load of drones on ore thieves now. _______________________________________________ There is no such thing as too much cynicism Flame me if you wish, I laugh with scorn at threats... Beware of geeks bearing gifs
Kefra	Posted - 2006.01.28 12:53:00 - [40] Edited by: Kefra on 28/01/2006 12:54:32 Originally by: Vampire Blade Do you think that if the game actually supported ransoming/tolling, it would be wrong? It's wrong to let pirates have only 10 minutes of pointless downtime instead of 15? It's wrong because I choose to shoot people for cash instead of AI and rocks? :\| Dude, it IS wrong. Look, in most cases you will be firing on ships that can offer little resistance, taking their goods after you have destroyed theit ships, maybe even podded them. In game it makes you an outlaw and the moral high ground is reserved for Robin Hood on this one. Just because the game allows it doesnt make it right. On any level. In fact that is why such elements are incorperated into a game so you can be an outlaw. Eve has a clear cut system on this and both pirate and citizen know the risks and should not complain. I do agree that a ransom system should be put into effect. This would allow pirates to actually pirate ships (irl they often let the ship sail if they relinquished their cargo or paid a ransom). However the regular penalties should remain. If there is a penalty reduction maybe it could take the form of signing a pirating contract with one of the races to pirate ships of another race and then they go to bat for you at Concord, thus reducing your penalties. Spell check
Requiem	Posted - 2006.01.28 12:58:00 - [41] Originally by: Telemicus Thrace Originally by: Creslin ...in real wars boarding ships has always been a big part of fighting... alot of pirates made most of their money from capturing ships not sinking them.. if you really get into it... it wouldnt be to hard imo to add a ruleset for this, make the boarding ship dock with the target ship, require more than one boarding ship if the target is big, make them slow and such... it would really add an interesting element to piracy and even some alliance warfare situations.. honestly its no different than blowing the ship up out for the person it happens too, it just makes piracy more worthwhile... and would add an element of team play and another dimension to pvp. ... I agree but I think it should be implemented in a more balanced fashion than the mod proposed. Star Fleet Command had the element of marine combat teams that could board an enemy ship and take it over, alternatively they could stay on board and fight enemy boarding parties. Perhaps 'marine' teams could be added as a crew element and board enemy ships using specilised drone ships? Interesting idea. So, how about this? 4 new high-slot modules are introduced: Small Boarding Ship Launcher: A frigate-fitted module. Launches a boarding ship housing a squad of 5 marines towards the target. The target must be down to structure to make boarding possible. To resist a boarding attempt, the target must have marines in its cargohold. The invaders and defenders tackle with each other for some time, with the defenders having some advantage. If the attackers win, the captain is ejected from his ship, unable to board it again. Medium Boarding Ship Launcher: Same as Small except for being cruiser-fitted and with 25 marines. Large Boarding Ship Launcher: Same as Small except for being battleship-fitted and with 100 marines. X-Large Boarding Ship Launcher: Same as Small except for being capital ship-fitted and with 500 marines. The boarding ships would be fast, and not easily targettable. Perhaps defender missiles could take them down? Implementing the takeover system could also be tricky. How would the attacker, given he succeeds, control 2 ships at the same time? Perhaps introduce ship-towing?
Karnov	Posted - 2006.01.28 13:25:00 - [42] Just to add a little to this discussion... Why don't concord arrest and detain low sec char's and then jail them for xx years? How come you can get a positive security status after pirating after all most judicial systems don't accept shooting a bad guy as justification for ignoring you shot someone in cold blood. WCS is not a pirate only complaint and like all pvp'ers its tough luck. For the one who commented something like having them reduce damage, they do as there is not a damage mod in that slot. A pirate skill from pirate factions to reduce the timer on unsanctioned agro sounds like a good idea, but it's going to be hard to get and so expensive, end result is you'll all complain about that next. After all I don't see concord allowing it to be sold on the open market for 20iskies and only pirate factions are going to have a legitamate reason for creating one.
Macro Slasher	Posted - 2006.01.28 13:29:00 - [43] I agree, give pirates new skills and stuff to make that stuff funnier and more viable.
Ralus	Posted - 2006.01.28 13:31:00 - [44] Edited by: Ralus on 28/01/2006 13:33:54 Ok first I should say my corp is strictly anti-pirate, but I will be the first to admit without pirates this game would be dead, so heres a few ideas for new mods. Salvage drones When a ship pops rather than leaving a nice can you get a wreck left behind (these disintigrate over time so they'll last as long as a can to stop lag) set your salvage drones on them and they'll work like mining drones bringing back any undestroyed modules, alloys (like what rogue drones drop) and minerals, once the wreak is emptied of all usable stuff it disintigrates. Think of this as pirate mining Death beams Take a ship to hull and you can start using death beams on it, this give a random chance to pod the character leaving a ship behind that can piloted away. These weapons are hated by concord and having one fitted will result in automatic concordocken in high sec, perminant sentry flagging and you will be freely attackable by any player (i.e will give you an effective -5 sec standing). Killing someone with a death beam will also give you a huge sec hit. Comm disruptor Low slot module that temperaraly removes you from the local channel, of course if caught using one (random chance) you'll get a sec hit and a hefty fine from the fluid comm operator company for hacking there systems. Battle camoflage Allows you to project the image of another object over your ship for a short time, the effect only lasts for 1min and you cannot move at all but does not suffer the recalibration delay of a cloak. Hide in a asteroid belt as an omber roid, or make yourself look like wreck next to a stargate. and last but not least. warp flash missiles heavy missile that impacts to a 5sec -100 warp strength cycle, the missile suffers from a -200% rof modifier so you'll probibly only get one off in a fight but it might give you that 5secs you need to catch the target. all of these seem fair to me and they would make fights more interesing - on both sides i think
Kerfira	Posted - 2006.01.28 13:34:00 - [45] Originally by: Vampire Blade I don't want an 'I win' button at all, I just want some of the pointless elements removed and the whole profession made more efficient. I don't care about stabs, what I do hate is the 15 minutes downtime and security status reduction for scrambling someone who is going to warp out 3 seconds later. So, basically what you're saying is: I don't want an 'I Win' button, all I want is an 'I Win' button??? Pirating is already easy enough if you are good enough. Clearly you still need to learn a few things, or perhaps learn to work with other people. General advice: Stop whining!
Sergeant Spot	Posted - 2006.01.28 13:46:00 - [46] So long as it is painful to die in Eve, lazy pirates will never have hoards of easy and rich victims. Get over it, or quit Eve. To change this, death must be made painless. Nothing else would work. I do NOT recommend such a change.
Vampire Blade	Posted - 2006.01.28 13:55:00 - [47] Edited by: Vampire Blade on 28/01/2006 13:55:54 Alright, seeing as you're clearly a seasoned veteran. Give me some tips on how to succeed as a belt rat. Maybe you can make battleships with 4+ stabs stick around in belts. Maybe you avoid the criminal flagging timer. ----- ----- -----
Velsharoon	Posted - 2006.01.28 14:14:00 - [48] Edited by: Velsharoon on 28/01/2006 14:18:28 Its been reduced to bringing more numbers so they cant get away :/ Then it isnt as profitable. But we do it anyways as even if you remove the isk incentive we are still gonna kill people ^^ Edit: and then carebears complain we gank people and we eat babies... Pirates dont want to kill the ship they want the isk usually. I dont want your miner2s or basic weapons, I want whats valuable to you to, the insurance cost. Thing is people are to scared to pay as we are gankers (see above) or else have some moral stance that if they dont pay pirates will go play WoW or something. Sadly misguided.
Sergeant Spot	Posted - 2006.01.28 14:20:00 - [49] Edited by: Sergeant Spot on 28/01/2006 14:20:20 Originally by: Ralus Edited by: Ralus on 28/01/2006 13:33:54 Ok first I should say my corp is strictly anti-pirate, but I will be the first to admit without pirates this game would be dead, so heres a few ideas for new mods. Salvage drones When a ship pops rather than leaving a nice can you get a wreck left behind (these disintigrate over time so they'll last as long as a can to stop lag) set your salvage drones on them and they'll work like mining drones bringing back any undestroyed modules, alloys (like what rogue drones drop) and minerals, once the wreak is emptied of all usable stuff it disintigrates. Think of this as pirate mining Death beams Take a ship to hull and you can start using death beams on it, this give a random chance to pod the character leaving a ship behind that can piloted away. These weapons are hated by concord and having one fitted will result in automatic concordocken in high sec, perminant sentry flagging and you will be freely attackable by any player (i.e will give you an effective -5 sec standing). Killing someone with a death beam will also give you a huge sec hit. Comm disruptor Low slot module that temperaraly removes you from the local channel, of course if caught using one (random chance) you'll get a sec hit and a hefty fine from the fluid comm operator company for hacking there systems. Battle camoflage Allows you to project the image of another object over your ship for a short time, the effect only lasts for 1min and you cannot move at all but does not suffer the recalibration delay of a cloak. Hide in a asteroid belt as an omber roid, or make yourself look like wreck next to a stargate. and last but not least. warp flash missiles heavy missile that impacts to a 5sec -100 warp strength cycle, the missile suffers from a -200% rof modifier so you'll probibly only get one off in a fight but it might give you that 5secs you need to catch the target. all of these seem fair to me and they would make fights more interesing - on both sides i think All very nice, but it will not produce the result that lazy pirates are whining for. To get the result that lazy pirates want, death must made painless. (NOT something I recommend) Any other change will merely result in a change of tactics by potential victims, and more whining that lazy pirates can't find victims. So long as the pirates want "Player" victims, and so long as it is painful for player victims to die, expect a shortage of victims. Accept it, deal with it, or quit Eve.
Vampire Blade	Posted - 2006.01.28 14:28:00 - [50] Lazy pirates? You're clueless. It's the lazy pirates who are getting the golden end of the stick. What do you think of when someone mentions pirates in an Eve context? Do you think of ruffians zipping around belts, blowing people or or ransoming them? No, you think of Battleships 150 klicks off a gate shooting everything they can. Those pirates don't move from the gate, they're lazy. How do people get to the belts in the first place? They must have gone through a gate to get there in the first place. I'm constantly on the move as a belt pirate, you call me lazy even though I want something done about the pointless timer so I can go hunt for more targets? I guess being a gate magnet is the opposite of being lazy. ----- ----- -----
Sergeant Spot	Posted - 2006.01.28 15:11:00 - [51] Originally by: Vampire Blade Lazy pirates? You're clueless. It's the lazy pirates who are getting the golden end of the stick. What do you think of when someone mentions pirates in an Eve context? Do you think of ruffians zipping around belts, blowing people or or ransoming them? No, you think of Battleships 150 klicks off a gate shooting everything they can. Those pirates don't move from the gate, they're lazy. How do people get to the belts in the first place? They must have gone through a gate to get there in the first place. I'm constantly on the move as a belt pirate, you call me lazy even though I want something done about the pointless timer so I can go hunt for more targets? I guess being a gate magnet is the opposite of being lazy. Ok, ignore the "lazy" part. Its not really a factor anyway. You STILL won't get more or better victims. If anything, you'll get fewer and poorer (unless death is made painless)
Kerfira	Posted - 2006.01.28 16:02:00 - [52] Originally by: Vampire Blade Alright, seeing as you're clearly a seasoned veteran. Give me some tips on how to succeed as a belt rat. Maybe you can make battleships with 4+ stabs stick around in belts. Maybe you avoid the criminal flagging timer. It is actually quite simple and very well balanced gamewise. If there are two ships, you and the one you're hunting, your ship is probably set up to catch and kill. However, if he is set up to escape someone out to catch him, he SHOULD get away! Otherwise you'd have your beloved 'I Win' button and game mechanics would be broken. EVE is balanced very well this way. To catch someone who is set up to escape being catched, you have to work in groups. Your above mentioned battleship would be in big trouble if you had two friends in interceptors set up to jam him. Each would only need to put 2 points on him, and he'd be immobile while you kill him. However, you're not MEANT to be able to do it alone. As for your whine about the criminal flag.... Do you really not understand that what you're doing is illegal in the EVE empire space? Piracy in 0.1 and up is ILLEGAL, and there is a consequence of doing it, of which the criminal flag is one of them. General advice: Stop whining!
Famine Aligher'ri	Posted - 2006.01.28 18:19:00 - [53] Originally by: Karmic Originally by: Ginger Magician Originally by: Famine Aligher'ri 0.0 is something also that allows a pirate more freedom. Which noone takes that step to go into. Why? For the simple fact it's to easy to kill people in low security empire. I mean look at all the popular tankCEO wannbees and ect. They do nothing but camp popular gates and roam around hitting it easy. Too easy. ROFL.I nominate this post for the most ignorant of 2006 awards lol that post sounds like a discription of you gingah and its not an ignorant post. Maybe you should borrow a magic wand, far classier than a magic hat, it might help you out with your Farjung issue's :P hey are you going to war dec us when he rejoins ? Pls go on :) you know you want to. If it's wrong, then where is it wrong? You can't honestly tell me that tanking sentry guns is not hard to do? I mean you can take a Maller throw 2 1600's on it with some other armor mods and kill a number of ships at a gate in 0.4-0.1. It's not hard to do. You can't tell me smartbombing with all WCS is exactly a skillful tactic that very few can do correctly... The only hard part in piracy is security status and being flagged for a short duration of time. There is a reason most pirates stay in low security. Because it's to easy to do. Ignorant? Maybe you can correct us where it's ignorant. Because from where I'm standing. Pirating in 0.0 is a lot more harder for the simple fact hardly noone is blobbing you in low security empire as they're in 0.0 camping a gate. If you think otherwise, by all means fraps up you camping gates in 0.0 and doing it solo as you did in low security empire. Then brag about how it's skill.
Pesadel0	Posted - 2006.01.28 19:18:00 - [54] Well i started a corp with some friends and we are going to go hardcore pirates -10 and stay there. I think pirates need some kind an island ,like a solar systeam in all regions off empire were all -10 could hang out and we could drink some rum,and tell stories :),this would mean that we could off have our kind off super hub for trading and buying ships...
Scoundrelus	Posted - 2006.01.28 20:14:00 - [55] Originally by: Pesadel0 Well i started a corp with some friends and we are going to go hardcore pirates -10 and stay there. I think pirates need some kind an island ,like a solar systeam in all regions off empire were all -10 could hang out and we could drink some rum,and tell stories :),this would mean that we could off have our kind off super hub for trading and buying ships... I agree with this big time. I was a pirate for a while and im STILL working of the sec status hit. Seems like the only way is either be part of an alliance that can build you all you need or have a hauling alt. Both are a pain in the ass. We need some sort of commerce hub... only one issue lol, we'll all be slaughtering each other within the hub and no one will be able to trade, sell or buy.
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2006.01.28 20:26:00 - [56] ISS call them "outposts" And if you shoot other people there, they p0wn you. --------------------------------------------------------------- Warning: above post may contain traces of sarcasm.
Pesadel0	Posted - 2006.01.28 20:39:00 - [57] Edited by: Pesadel0 on 28/01/2006 20:43:56 Originally by: Maya Rkell ISS call them "outposts" And if you shoot other people there, they p0wn you. Well the problem is that they p0wn me and i p0wn them but that doesnt change the fact that pirates and the scum off eve do need some love from GOD(CCP). I hope that with Kali and the empires wars ,the devs dont forget that pirates exist ..... Quote: I agree with this big time. I was a pirate for a while and im STILL working of the sec status hit. Seems like the only way is either be part of an alliance that can build you all you need or have a hauling alt. Both are a pain in the ass. We need some sort of commerce hub... only one issue lol, we'll all be slaughtering each other within the hub and no one will be able to trade, sell or buy.Laughing Well we could kill each other and pod ourselfes and still drink some rum and say yarrr
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2006.01.28 20:43:00 - [58] See, that's an incentive for pirates not to shoot ISS :P --------------------------------------------------------------- Warning: above post may contain traces of sarcasm.
Caleb Paine	Posted - 2006.01.28 20:52:00 - [59] War disrupts an economy, it's very expsensive and destructive by nature. That goes for countries, corp and people. You want to live your life in fun and shoot stuff? That's ok, but you will have to EARN the cash to do it then. And if you can't earn the cash by pirating alone, then I guess you'll have to find other ways of funding your war effort. "whawha I wanna shoot people but it's not making me rich whahahaahah" Producers need to mine to get materials, PvPers need to PvE to get funds. Miners... well miners only need roids... :/ ----------------- Death smiles at us all, all a man can do is smile back.
Pesadel0	Posted - 2006.01.28 21:08:00 - [60] Edited by: Pesadel0 on 28/01/2006 21:10:09 And pirates need some tools too some kind off ransoming systeam tha alows the ransomed person not be shoot at by that pirate. Quote: See, that's an incentive for pirates not to shoot ISS :P Do you have some ISS shares maya? ,and ISS must be juicy targets full off zyd and that sort of thing :D

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