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Vampire Blade
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Posted - 2006.01.28 03:26:00 -
[1]
Shooting people at gates shouldn't be the be all and end all of piracy. Why not do something to make belt ratting more viable?
Every other profession has received skill packs, and sometimes even ships, to facilitate advancement in that chosen profession. But piracy has stayed the way it is since it's inception, but gradually nerfed by other changes.
The only major 'gift' piracy has received in a year is a bug fix. Visible flagging. Yippee doo! I think it's time to do something about things like Fast Talk, totally useless at the moment and has been for eternity. Someone has suggested making it decrease criminal flag timer by one minute per level. Holy Jesus, this is the best idea ever, and it should have been implemented sooner!
I'm pretty sure there are others who share the same feelings about scrambling something, watching it fly off 3 seconds later and then playing afk-online for 15 minutes 9/10 times they attempt belt piracy. This is probably why virtually all pirates of ye olde say it's dead.
Please, CCP, throw piracy a bone and give us a 'strike colours' ransom system, make Fast Talk work, and maybe some other snazzy gimmicks to breathe life in to this dead profession.
/beg
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madnight
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Posted - 2006.01.28 03:34:00 -
[2]
please dont, just pretend you did 
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Amerame
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Posted - 2006.01.28 04:03:00 -
[3]
ratting in 0.0 belts has been made more profitable, and you will not have to deal with retarded concord mechanism over there, NPCers in belt drop t2 stuff, faction stuff, and sometimes deadspace stuff, that's probably a lot better than what you can get off a miner in a BS or a newbie ratting in a cruiser in low sec.
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Aeaus
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Posted - 2006.01.28 04:08:00 -
[4]
Ever thought of putting some effort into it? Scout out popular systems, don't make it obvious you are a pirate. You don't have to pirate hundreds a day, just enough to make and fun, and profitable.
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Matrix Aran
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Posted - 2006.01.28 04:12:00 -
[5]
Yeah but piracy in 0.4-0.1 space is just so much fun 
I agree with the OP. Even mining has its specific modules, upgrades, leadership skills, and god knows what else. I'd welcome some new skills tqat would help decrease sec hits, criminal flag timers, etc... It would be nice to see at least one buff in the profession's general direction, considering everyone else gets their fair share. Sure we are probably the most hated people in eve, only above probably scammers and ore theifs, but that still in my opinion doesn't make us any less a part of eve than miners and mission runners, so why shouldn't we get some lovin'?
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Jacxx
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Posted - 2006.01.28 04:24:00 -
[6]
Here's what I think would be absolute best for making piracy profitable.
Some kind of a new ship class that can fit a module that allows you to force eject someones pod from their ship by shooting it's health down far enough.
Then to go along with that, a "tug" ship that has a single high slot and can fit a tractor beam that allows it to "tow" other ships behind it into warp and into stations.
Basically allowing your to hijack peoples ships in the right situation, considering that is among the things actual pirates did.
Or, perhaps, just add skills for warp scrambling distance/cap use...
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Foomanshoe
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Posted - 2006.01.28 04:32:00 -
[7]
You can always scan probe agent runners, but they are usually in 0.5+
Generally you have to go to 0.0 to get anything good from piracy, and thats how it should be. Want more rewards from killing people kill people who arent noobs. Empire is for young players, its time to join the real guts of eve.
Out here its not really piracy anyways, its just life.
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Deadspace For Dead space!
 Originally by: Oveur
To the nerfmobile!
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Vampire Blade
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Posted - 2006.01.28 04:47:00 -
[8]
Why are you all patronising me? I'm not new to the game in my shiny Merlin. I've been playing for nearly 2 years and I know the trade. I've been an outlaw at -10 and back twice, I spend my time divided between 0.0 space and Empire. I have alternate character that reside deep within 0.0 space.
Open up your map and show by pilots in space, then tell me 0.0 is viable for belt piracy. I can NPC in Outer Ring, even Syndicate belts, virtually AFK the entire day. I don't have to be scared of some dude scrambling me and asking me for a ransom. I pirate in Empire because that's where the people are.
I pirate in busy areas. Lonetrek, Placid, Sinq Laison, Ammatar. Sure, there are agent runners, but you ain't going to find them if they're not at a gate. Using scanner probes is too fiddly and time consuming. Mr Raven mission ***** will have completed his easy level 4 mission in Passari and will have instajumped his merry way back to Litiura before you've even come half close to finding him.
Why are these people in Empire belts anyway? I see Cruisers, I see Battlecruisers. Most of them have stabs equipped, and you can't even tell. This is why I have to fly a Crow with a warp disruptor and ship scanner most of the time and still come away with nothing. The other day I tackled 3 battleships only to see them blissfully warp out less than ten seconds later. This is the reality of belt piracy.
Do you have 15 minutes downtime each time you shoot at a lump of veldspar?
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xeom
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Posted - 2006.01.28 04:52:00 -
[9]
VB does make some good points and piracy does need some good loving.
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Jaguar needs a Buff CPP!
-1 more mid slot please
-bit more cpu
-Better resistance? |
Vampire Blade
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Posted - 2006.01.28 04:54:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Aeaus
Ever thought of putting some effort into it? Scout out popular systems, don't make it obvious you are a pirate. You don't have to pirate hundreds a day, just enough to make and fun, and profitable.
What the hell do you mean? Don't make it obvious. Usually I fly around with a positive security rating, I don't have a bounty and my corp isn't a pirate corp. There is nothing about me that makes me look like a pirate. OH, wait, maybe taking off my eyepatch, corsair hat, peg-leg and hiding my pet parrot will help me out? Thanks.
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Malken
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Posted - 2006.01.28 05:25:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Vampire Blade
Do you have 15 minutes downtime each time you shoot at a lump of veldspar?
YES! implement this now!
every miner have to wait 15 before starting to mine another roid or concord will come pwn them.
now that would be equal justice.
and pretty funny also
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Vendrin
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Posted - 2006.01.28 05:27:00 -
[12]
Not a pirate, never will be but certainly for the pirates getting some luvin.
Need help in Caldari Space? Join channel CCDF to give or recieve it. |
Lord Artemis
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Posted - 2006.01.28 05:41:00 -
[13]
until there is more reason to go in a system besides belts stations and gate, i dont see it happening. Besides running from enemies/looking for them and making safespots, when was the last time someone went to a planet for reasons other than boredom or to see a big non-interactive pretty circle.  Moons have only become useful for pos's. Belts are pretty much mining, rat hunting isnt profitable. And ofc I speak from an inside empire viewpoint too, no need to point out the lucrative earnings outside in 0.0 
Make rats spawn ~50-100km from gates/stations (in 0.4 and below) and worth going after then pirates will have more time to hunt vs. instajumps or sitting on gates.
___________________________
Aegis Militia Diplomatic Relations Officer
C.E.O. of SHOD
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Creslin
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Posted - 2006.01.28 05:52:00 -
[14]
until its more profitable to move into low sec i dont think piracy will become much more profitable... its a hard profession for them to support cause one is largely dependant on other players (and unlike the market traders and production the other players dont really appreciate you existing ;p)
piracy is really dependant on the host players, pirates are parasites and unless ccp makes going to low sec worth the risk it will stay pretty dead no matter what skills they add... maybe the kali war will give pirates something to do tho.. one can hope concord might keep out of fights in high empire between the warring factions.
Adding a new line of ships called boarding ships or something would be really cool tho... i remember how awesome it was in homeworld 1/2 to capture enemy ships.
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Tasuric Orka
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Posted - 2006.01.28 06:07:00 -
[15]
Piracy does need some loving, PvP in general does. They are gonna nerf local, its a start. Then hope they balance the stabs/webbers thingies out so not every pansy in 0.0 has a gazillion stabs fitted.
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Hypocritical. |
Telemicus Thrace
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Posted - 2006.01.28 06:51:00 -
[16]
I think the biggest problem with piracy is your victory conditions. That being you need to destroy the ship to loot it unless you get a ransom. In a war for instance as long as the other guy runs you win (protecting territory / corp mates and limiting enemy freedom of movement). Pirate have to get the kill or they are burning isk in the form of ammo.
I'm not a pirate myself but they are an interesting part of the game. I think the notion of a ship that forces somebody to eject from their ship is as stupid as the carebear who proposed a virus that could auto destroy any ship that fired on you (see ideas forum). However the idea of skills to reduce the agro timer are interesting although they should be hard to come by or they just become must have isk sinks. Maybe limited to offers from pirate faction agents or some such.
Also the same old culprits of local and WCS have come up. Personally I could never bring myself to put WCS on a combat ship but folk do, as suggested elsewhere perhaps WCS should come with an across the board damage penalty or some such.
As a covert ops pilot I too would like to see local go the way of some player made channels where you only show up if you speak but this has all been debated elsewhere.
A couple of other things I'd like to see are a new restriction on logging off, that being if you log out in space you cannot log in as a different character on the same account for say 20mins. Those in the know will understand which annoying "tactic" this will get rid of. It's the bane of pirates, bounty hunters and soldiers alike.
Also reduced penalties for shooting up targets with negative (but not -10) standings. It's a pain to take a full sec hit when you cap a -9.8 pirate and feels unrealistic. A dual bounty system would be interesting. That being in high sec you can only put a bounty on a negative sec status pilot and if you have a positive sec status. Go to a pirate base and you do the reverse (put an illegal bounty on a law abiding citizen which can only be claimed by low security pilots). Enter the hit man career path.
I could ramble on all day but the crux is I think the whole law and (dis)order system as well as some key mechanics need some tweaking. After all, if you think piracy is bad try bounty hunting other players.
"I cannot hear what you say for the thunder of what you are." - Zulu proverb. |
Kane Ululani
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Posted - 2006.01.28 06:54:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Vampire Blade
What the hell do you mean? Don't make it obvious. Usually I fly around with a positive security rating, I don't have a bounty and my corp isn't a pirate corp. There is nothing about me that makes me look like a pirate. OH, wait, maybe taking off my eyepatch, corsair hat, peg-leg and hiding my pet parrot will help me out? Thanks.
Don't be patronizing yourself, as your post comes across as wanting solo piracy buffed in a team game. If you can't find friends to help you out, why not adapt and make some.
There are some fabulously rich and successful pirates. Because it doesn't work for you, doesn't mean the game is gimped.
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Vampire Blade
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Posted - 2006.01.28 07:07:00 -
[18]
I'm killing rats with 1m ISK bounty every 5 minutes right now, in a Harpy. I can take my Raven out in Uemisaisen and print money doing level 4 missions. I can mine ice in Empire, I can mine high end ore in 0.0.
I can do all of these solo. But it's wrong for me to want to ransom/destroy a single player by myself? Even if I did fly in a gang (and I do at times), it wouldn't change the downtime issue and the way ransoms work.
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Kane Ululani
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Posted - 2006.01.28 07:22:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Vampire Blade
I'm killing rats with 1m ISK bounty every 5 minutes right now, in a Harpy. I can take my Raven out in Uemisaisen and print money doing level 4 missions. I can mine ice in Empire, I can mine high end ore in 0.0.
I can do all of these solo. But it's wrong for me to want to ransom/destroy a single player by myself? Even if I did fly in a gang (and I do at times), it wouldn't change the downtime issue and the way ransoms work.
Because you are comparing pve to pvp, which is comparing an apple to an orange.
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Creslin
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Posted - 2006.01.28 07:31:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Telemicus Thrace
I think the biggest problem with piracy is your victory conditions. That being you need to destroy the ship to loot it unless you get a ransom. In a war for instance as long as the other guy runs you win (protecting territory / corp mates and limiting enemy freedom of movement). Pirate have to get the kill or they are burning isk in the form of ammo.
I'm not a pirate myself but they are an interesting part of the game. I think the notion of a ship that forces somebody to eject from their ship is as stupid as the carebear who proposed a virus that could auto destroy any ship that fired on you (see ideas forum). However the idea of skills to reduce the agro timer are interesting although they should be hard to come by or they just become must have isk sinks. Maybe limited to offers from pirate faction agents or some such.
Also the same old culprits of local and WCS have come up. Personally I could never bring myself to put WCS on a combat ship but folk do, as suggested elsewhere perhaps WCS should come with an across the board damage penalty or some such.
As a covert ops pilot I too would like to see local go the way of some player made channels where you only show up if you speak but this has all been debated elsewhere.
A couple of other things I'd like to see are a new restriction on logging off, that being if you log out in space you cannot log in as a different character on the same account for say 20mins. Those in the know will understand which annoying "tactic" this will get rid of. It's the bane of pirates, bounty hunters and soldiers alike.
Also reduced penalties for shooting up targets with negative (but not -10) standings. It's a pain to take a full sec hit when you cap a -9.8 pirate and feels unrealistic. A dual bounty system would be interesting. That being in high sec you can only put a bounty on a negative sec status pilot and if you have a positive sec status. Go to a pirate base and you do the reverse (put an illegal bounty on a law abiding citizen which can only be claimed by low security pilots). Enter the hit man career path.
I could ramble on all day but the crux is I think the whole law and (dis)order system as well as some key mechanics need some tweaking. After all, if you think piracy is bad try bounty hunting other players.
having a mod that forces someone to eject from their ship is dumb yes but in real wars boarding ships has always been a big part of fighting... alot of pirates made most of their money from capturing ships not sinking them.. if you really get into it... it wouldnt be to hard imo to add a ruleset for this, make the boarding ship *dock* with the target ship, require more than one boarding ship if the target is big, make them slow and such... it would really add an interesting element to piracy and even some alliance warfare situations.. honestly its no different than blowing the ship up out for the person it happens too, it just makes piracy more worthwhile... and would add an element of team play and another dimension to pvp.
Increasing the skill set tho could be done with smuggler type skills, its always been disapointing how few there are and how poorly they work.. i would like to see people have a realistic ability to move around with the omniscient police knowing everything you have done for the past year.
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Vampire Blade
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Posted - 2006.01.28 07:31:00 -
[21]
Do you think that if the game actually supported ransoming/tolling, it would be wrong? It's wrong to let pirates have only 10 minutes of pointless downtime instead of 15?
It's wrong because I choose to shoot people for cash instead of AI and rocks? :|
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Darkdashing
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Posted - 2006.01.28 07:34:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Vampire Blade
Shooting people at gates shouldn't be the be all and end all of piracy. Why not do something to make belt ratting more viable?
Every other profession has received skill packs, and sometimes even ships, to facilitate advancement in that chosen profession. But piracy has stayed the way it is since it's inception, but gradually nerfed by other changes.
The only major 'gift' piracy has received in a year is a bug fix. Visible flagging. Yippee doo! I think it's time to do something about things like Fast Talk, totally useless at the moment and has been for eternity. Someone has suggested making it decrease criminal flag timer by one minute per level. Holy Jesus, this is the best idea ever, and it should have been implemented sooner!
I'm pretty sure there are others who share the same feelings about scrambling something, watching it fly off 3 seconds later and then playing afk-online for 15 minutes 9/10 times they attempt belt piracy. This is probably why virtually all pirates of ye olde say it's dead.
Please, CCP, throw piracy a bone and give us a 'strike colours' ransom system, make Fast Talk work, and maybe some other snazzy gimmicks to breathe life in to this dead profession.
/beg
...and make it easier to grief?
not gonna happen mate
There is beauty in tension.... |
Vampire Blade
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Posted - 2006.01.28 07:39:00 -
[23]
Explain how you arrived at that conclusion. Don't be afraid to include crayon drawn pictures along with annotations, so my simple mind can grasp it.
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Creslin
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Posted - 2006.01.28 07:41:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Vampire Blade
Do you think that if the game actually supported ransoming/tolling, it would be wrong? It's wrong to let pirates have only 10 minutes of pointless downtime instead of 15?
It's wrong because I choose to shoot people for cash instead of AI and rocks? :|
the major difference being neither the AI or the rocks is gonna stop paying their sub if they get ganked to much ;p pirating hurts other human players, the other two dont, so pirating is more regulated and less supported...
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Syrec
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Posted - 2006.01.28 07:49:00 -
[25]
Nothing worse than lazy pirates who think pirating should be as easy as mission running. Put some effort into it and stop looking for handouts. Pirates use guns and combat modules, same as PVPers and ratter. Warp scrambler, webber, guns, various tanking and damage modules, these are your skills and modules.
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Famine Aligher'ri
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Posted - 2006.01.28 08:09:00 -
[26]
Piracy is a combat trade. You have more modules avaliable to you than the mining trade. I have no idea where you come up with that you don't. Miners don't need implants to enhance there shooting. I mean there miners for god sakes. Yet you have the option of implants to increase your damage ect. Not up untill now that is.
Bounty Hunters are weak now. We have a usless bounty system in place. No real good system has been thought up for these trades to utilize that. Yet you want more on your trade why?
Piracy is rather easy to do. Only problems you face really is WCS users and people who can fight back. Other than that, any simple combat pilot can do it. Just like any simple pilot can tank sentry gunfire in ships as small as a cruiser. Just to kill some easy target approuching the gate.
In my simple opinion piracy needs to be made harder. Most part it seems to be getting that way with belt piracy. More people using WCS while npcing or mining. Which makes it harder for pirates to easily kill players. That's something all pirates need to adapt too. Otherwise you're asking for eve to put it on easy mode for you because you choose not to fit for the fight. Also the sentry guns need to be buffed or atleast something in place that randomizes there buffness. It's to easy to tank and rather boring killing easy targets.
0.0 is something also that allows a pirate more freedom. Which noone takes that step to go into. Why? For the simple fact it's to easy to kill people in low security empire. I mean look at all the popular tankCEO wannbees and ect. They do nothing but camp popular gates and roam around hitting it easy. Too easy.
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Vampire Blade
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Posted - 2006.01.28 08:12:00 -
[27]
Why pirate when you can pay 2m a week to shoot at targets any place, any time? :(
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Famine Aligher'ri
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Posted - 2006.01.28 08:16:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Vampire Blade
Why pirate when you can pay 2m a week to shoot at targets any place, any time? :(
Also true.
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Xendie
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Posted - 2006.01.28 09:06:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Vampire Blade
Why pirate when you can pay 2m a week to shoot at targets any place, any time? :(
because you can only attack those who you have declared war on
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Originally by: F'nog
This would be great, because lag is not at all a problem currently.
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Vampire Blade
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Posted - 2006.01.28 09:08:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Xendie
Originally by: Vampire Blade
Why pirate when you can pay 2m a week to shoot at targets any place, any time? :(
because you can only attack those who you have declared war on
That's not true. I'm just as capable of shooting people I'm not at war with, I'll just get penalised for it.
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