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Endo Riftbreaker
Antioch Rising
1
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Posted - 2013.10.14 16:59:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hi all,
I was just curious what ships are good for countering C3's - specifically the Proteus and the Legion. I live in a no effects hole and have tried to engage these ships numerous times with different comps, but I can't ever seem to DPS them down in time before they jump (usually fighting on a high sec hole).
I've tried with a Megathron, but found it had tracking issues even with double webs, also tried with a Typhoon but their sig is just too small to apply damage.
Is there any standard hard counter to these guys? Maybe a neut Armageddon or Bhaalgorn?
Thoughts appreciated! |
Glyndi
Doom Generation
THE H0NEYBADGER
4
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Posted - 2013.10.14 17:07:00 -
[2] - Quote
The best counter to a T3 on a high sec hole is to not fight on a high sec hole.
Also, keep in mind both of those ships, proteus even more, are short range brawlers. Try and kite them off the hole with something speedy and long range. Any of the tier 3 BCs are good at this.
Fighting on a high sec hole is pretty much useless like station games. |
Bronya Boga
Semper Ubi Sub Ubi
150
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Posted - 2013.10.14 17:42:00 -
[3] - Quote
Glyndi wrote:The best counter to a T3 on a high sec hole is to not fight on a high sec hole.
Also, keep in mind both of those ships, proteus even more, are short range brawlers. Try and kite them off the hole with something speedy and long range. Any of the tier 3 BCs are good at this.
Fighting on a high sec hole is pretty much useless like station games.
This. If they are sitting on a high sec hole you are waisting your time.
Host of podcast Down The Pipe
www.downthepipe-wh.com
Podcast Public Channel is DTP Podcast
@drverikan on twitter
[email protected] |
WInter Borne
Cold Station 12
Surely You're Joking
91
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Posted - 2013.10.14 17:47:00 -
[4] - Quote
Endo Riftbreaker wrote:Hi all,
I was just curious what ships are good for countering C3's - specifically the Proteus and the Legion. I live in a no effects hole and have tried to engage these ships numerous times with different comps, but I can't ever seem to DPS them down in time before they jump (usually fighting on a high sec hole).
I've tried with a Megathron, but found it had tracking issues even with double webs, also tried with a Typhoon but their sig is just too small to apply damage.
Is there any standard hard counter to these guys? Maybe a neut Armageddon or Bhaalgorn?
Thoughts appreciated!
Crash the hole with battle orcas and bring T3's to alpha them from afar. |
Endo Riftbreaker
Antioch Rising
1
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Posted - 2013.10.14 18:10:00 -
[5] - Quote
If I went the tier 3 route, I suppose I'd be best off with a Tornado right? Talos doesn't seem like it has the tank to out-last a T3 given that it wants to brawl close range. |
Pobunjenik
Direwolf-Rayet
skylian Verge
75
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Posted - 2013.10.14 19:12:00 -
[6] - Quote
Bring more T3s!
Neka mi se jave igra-ìi sa prostora Balkana koji su zainteresovani za ++ivot u WH. |
Incindir Mauser
Adhocracy Incorporated
Adhocracy
257
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Posted - 2013.10.14 19:37:00 -
[7] - Quote
Endo Riftbreaker wrote:Hi all,
I was just curious what ships are good for countering C3's - specifically the Proteus and the Legion. I live in a no effects hole and have tried to engage these ships numerous times with different comps, but I can't ever seem to DPS them down in time before they jump (usually fighting on a high sec hole).
I've tried with a Megathron, but found it had tracking issues even with double webs, also tried with a Typhoon but their sig is just too small to apply damage.
Is there any standard hard counter to these guys? Maybe a neut Armageddon or Bhaalgorn?
Thoughts appreciated!
Don't fight on a hisec hole.
T3 pilots generally don't tank against ewar. Proteus is vulnerable to damps. Jams for legions. ECM300 drones are your friends.
Also bring more dudes.. |
Keizer Kip
Probe Patrol
Polarized.
3
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Posted - 2013.10.14 21:44:00 -
[8] - Quote
Countering is not that hard. Proteus = put some neuts on him and he will struggle to apply dps. Same goes for lezor legions.
Loki's are vulnarable to ecm most of the time. Etcetera, be clever and use your utility slots wise, and learning to pvp means losing a couple of ships in the process.
As far as a highsec hole, warp at range, lure them off, bump em, you can at least try it or watch and do nothing. |
Jack Miton
Semper Ubi Sub Ubi
2374
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Posted - 2013.10.14 21:51:00 -
[9] - Quote
Shoot them. They blow up just like anything else.
Don't fly BSs against cruisers, that's a no brainer.
Stuck In Here With Me:-á http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/ |
Chitsa Jason
Future Corps
Sleeper Social Club
807
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Posted - 2013.10.14 22:02:00 -
[10] - Quote
Curse or Pilgrim is good 1v1 counter to proteus or legion. Also if enemy T3 does not get of HS wh you will never get them. So try to lure/bump or use battle orcas.
CSM8 Member
Twitter:-á@ChitsaJason
Skype: Casparas
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Endo Riftbreaker
Antioch Rising
1
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Posted - 2013.10.15 14:06:00 -
[11] - Quote
Thanks for the suggestions - I'll have to give the Curse/neuts a shot. |
WInter Borne
Cold Station 12
Surely You're Joking
92
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Posted - 2013.10.15 16:19:00 -
[12] - Quote
Endo Riftbreaker wrote:If I went the tier 3 route, I suppose I'd be best off with a Tornado right? Talos doesn't seem like it has the tank to out-last a T3 given that it wants to brawl close range.
Anything is possible with enough dps applied. |
Andrew Jester
Jester's Hole
3
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Posted - 2013.10.15 17:03:00 -
[13] - Quote
Neuts are definitely the best counter for solo T3s. Would suggest not engaging on a HS hole, only thing worse than station games. Try to bait them off and then drop them. |
7enn
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2013.10.18 14:49:00 -
[14] - Quote
There are only 2 things more risk averse than a T3 cruiser on a HS wh. One is a T3 gang accompanied by 4-5 logi and 4-5 ECM tengu, and the other is the neutral forum alt. The only valid tactic for all 3 of these groups is to put 'space fairy' in the notes section of the involved character's notes tab and move on. All 3 will chest up with "COME AT ME BRO" attitudes, but at the end of the day all 3 have at least one foot on the escape ladder and a hand on the D-ring.
COME AT ME BRO!!!! |
Tarunik Raqalth'Qui
Anomalous Existence
133
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Posted - 2013.10.18 15:03:00 -
[15] - Quote
Squishing the wormhole can work, yes. *grins* |
Rroff
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
347
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Posted - 2013.10.18 16:18:00 -
[16] - Quote
7enn wrote:One is a T3 gang accompanied by 4-5 logi and 4-5 ECM tengu
Depends on useage not the composition - its a perfectly valid setup to go balls deep in someones home wh in a C5/6.
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7enn
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2013.10.18 16:24:00 -
[17] - Quote
Opinions are as valid as said setup.
COME AT ME BRO! |
Rroff
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
347
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 17:06:00 -
[18] - Quote
My bad I made the mistake of thinking you were trying to make a point. |
7enn
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2013.10.18 17:22:00 -
[19] - Quote
No no, you're all good! I appreciate your help in making my point. You've been great. I've reviewed your personal kb on battleclinic and now I must amend my initial statement. There are actually 3 things more risk averse than a T3 on a HS wh. (to be fare you do have 2 solo kills - an iteron and a hurricane you clipped on the edge of a fleet fight). Thanks for correcting my oversight.
COME AT ME BRO |
Praxis Ginimic
Dark Knight Legion
The Hydra Confederacy
525
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Posted - 2013.10.18 17:55:00 -
[20] - Quote
Neuts, falcon, more friends... |
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Rroff
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
347
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Posted - 2013.10.18 18:20:00 -
[21] - Quote
7enn wrote:No no, you're all good! I appreciate your help in making my point. You've been great. I've reviewed your personal kb on battleclinic and now I must amend my initial statement. There are actually 3 things more risk averse than a T3 on a HS wh. (to be fare you do have 2 solo kills - an iteron and a hurricane you clipped on the edge of a fleet fight). Thanks for correcting my oversight.
COME AT ME BRO
I won't lie I don't have the most prolific combat record neither do I do much solo PVP, but I also have 4 other characters I pvp with also - 3 of which have atleast as many kills each as Rroff (one has 3 times as many).
EDIT: Tell a lie only 2 have as many or more kills as Rroff was accidentally counting Rroff twice. |
Icarus Able
Traverse Holdings
124
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Posted - 2013.10.18 18:22:00 -
[22] - Quote
Endo Riftbreaker wrote:If I went the tier 3 route, I suppose I'd be best off with a Tornado right? Talos doesn't seem like it has the tank to out-last a T3 given that it wants to brawl close range.
Talos is a good kiter if you can use Null. |
7enn
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
2
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Posted - 2013.10.18 18:29:00 -
[23] - Quote
Rrrrrrrrrofffffffff my main man. You haven't lost a ship since March of last year. You ARE the poster child of risk aversion. I would wager that THE last thing the space fairies flying the over tanked, over logi, over ecm T3 fleets really want is YOU pleading the 'it's not always a risk averse fleet' case for them. You're just making your fairy brosefs look even worse. Let it go man, before they get all mad at you.
COME AT ME BRO |
Rroff
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
347
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 18:33:00 -
[24] - Quote
7enn wrote:Rrrrrrrrrofffffffff my main man. You haven't lost a ship since March of last year. You ARE the poster child of risk aversion. I would wager that last thing the space fairies flying the over tanked, over logi, over ecm T3 fleets really want is YOU pleading the 'it's not always a risk averse fleet' case for them. You're just making your fairy brosefs look even worse. Let it go man, before they get all mad at you.
COME AT ME BRO
Yeah everyone needs to take a bit of a step back from the game now and again. But see my edit above (and check some of my losses).
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Ilaister
Task Force Proteus
Protean Concept
21
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Posted - 2013.10.18 19:17:00 -
[25] - Quote
So we judge PvPers on their losses > lack of risk aversion now too?
When did this pleasing change in attitudes take place? |
7enn
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
2
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Posted - 2013.10.19 00:19:00 -
[26] - Quote
I try to judge them on all the available data. Keeping in mind I redirected this post to also include other risk averse practices (T3 fleets that bring... you know... too much) I was judging Rroffles only on his aversion to risk. I wasn't really looking at any other qualities. I would bet he's a splendid father and provider (or maybe that creepy uncle... you know)
Looking at his kb I saw no real solo activity, most fleets were around a dozen or 30 (about 50/50 on that). The few (yes I didn't check them all) engagements I spot checked had the numbers well in his crew's favor. Very few losses (for the record, if a pilot has around 80 efficiency and over 500 small gang kills he's just about risk right in my eyes). I like losses. Show's you're not afraid to go for it. (it's hard to believe a guy talking about going balls deep if he hasn't lost a ship in a year and a half - makes me question his version of deep... if you know what I mean)
hmmm where was I??
Oh yeah, so kb not exactly blinking 'tough guy' and yet claiming that the T3 fleet obliged to bring logi and jams (yeah AND jams - really??) is not risk averse when going balls deep in someones wh.
I opened his notes tab and typed..... you guessed it
Space Fairy
I'm sure he's cool and all, just not the authority on risk averse and balls deep.
That and I'm kind of having fun acting like a tool on the forums (no offense intended for the ones of you that were thinking I'm cool because I act like a #$$## to some guy I truly don't know).
COME AT ME BRO
|
Malcolm Shinhwa
Bad Touches
446
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Posted - 2013.10.19 00:51:00 -
[27] - Quote
I have 3 or 4 kills on hisec holes (not of T3s). I have no idea why. My plan is always "If I'm loosing, I'll jump to hisec." Not sure what their plan was.
Hey CCP, please slush my fund like you did for SOMER Blink. |
7enn
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
2
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Posted - 2013.10.19 01:01:00 -
[28] - Quote
The OP was asking about T3 on a HS (specifically the proteus and legion). They have a massive tank for their sig radius, so they are pretty tough to kill on a HS if they have a clue what they are doing. They aren't as safe as if they were in a fleet of 10 prot, 4 guardians and 5 ecm tengus, but not everyone can afford to fly around with that kind of security. If I could fly around in a fleet like that I would definitely cry and whine about not being able to get good fight though (that probably goes without saying if you spend any amount of time on these boards).
Has anyone seen my red jacket?
COME AT ME BRO |
Barrak
Wormhole Engineers
Greater Realms
83
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Posted - 2013.10.19 08:59:00 -
[29] - Quote
A good bump and tripple webs are the order of the day..... though, then you need the deeps. |
Rroff
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
347
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 09:25:00 -
[30] - Quote
7enn wrote:I try to judge them on all the available data. Keeping in mind I redirected this post to also include other risk averse practices (T3 fleets that bring... you know... too much) I was judging Rroffles only on his aversion to risk. I wasn't really looking at any other qualities. I would bet he's a splendid father and provider (or maybe that creepy uncle... you know)
Looking at his kb I saw no real solo activity, most fleets were around a dozen or 30 (about 50/50 on that). The few (yes I didn't check them all) engagements I spot checked had the numbers well in his crew's favor. Very few losses (for the record, if a pilot has around 80 efficiency and over 500 small gang kills he's just about risk right in my eyes). I like losses. Show's you're not afraid to go for it. (it's hard to believe a guy talking about going balls deep if he hasn't lost a ship in a year and a half - makes me question his version of deep... if you know what I mean)
hmmm where was I??
Oh yeah, so kb not exactly blinking 'tough guy' and yet claiming that the T3 fleet obliged to bring logi and jams (yeah AND jams - really??) is not risk averse when going balls deep in someones wh.
I opened his notes tab and typed..... you guessed it
Space Fairy
I'm sure he's cool and all, just not the authority on risk averse and balls deep.
That and I'm kind of having fun acting like a tool on the forums (no offense intended for the ones of you that were thinking I'm cool because I act like a #$$## to some guy I truly don't know).
COME AT ME BRO
Except as I pointed out I have losses more recent than a year and a half ago and if you actually checked in a bit more detail you'd see that as many fights are heavily out numbered as are straight ganks.
Not to mention not seemingly able to tell the difference between dropping a t3 gang in with the odds heavily in your favor for ganks and using them in their natural environment where the risk is appropriate i.e. someones C5/6 home where they can drop dozens of capitals and an equal or larger t3 gang of their own.
EDIT: As an aside I've not been that active over the last year and mostly flown a guardian on rroff when I have pvp'd with that char. |
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