Moron, If the last data dump was not public you would not have know about the changes.

Moron

jesus they said that it was a first draft too.

Stop being teste!

They flat out TOLD you the specs listed were for testing. I know we're not used to beleiving CCP but the ONE thing you can ALWAYS believe them about is when they say something isn't finished.

Original stats from sisi dump were beyond broken... Glad to see that the new "dump" has toned these ships down a bit.

As far as the Gallente ship not having drones... Wait till the hybrid re-balance is done before you start crying bloody murder folks.

yeah, listen up you pack of amateur professors

testing numbers requires actually loading them on the server

that is unless you folks think its better for CCP to run the numbers on a pad of paper and not an actual game environment

I'm not even commenting on the stats. I'm only commenting on your surprise that they changed. CCP said it wasn't finished. My god, after all these years, can we agree that is the one thing we can believe them about? They specialize in unfinished, they delivered unfinished, and we're supposed to be surprised? I am not surprised!

and I bet they make some more later.

now STFU and stop being a backseat programmer, its people like you all across the gaming world who cause most game DEVS to never say anything of value.

I don't recall reading a post from CCP saying that the tier 3 BC were supposed to be anti-cap ships. While I don't argue that they could certainly be used in that role, I also agree that we should state what we think of the current stats, while being patient and understanding that they are not even close to finalized. Perhaps CCP is simply trying out extreme stats at the outset, and then will slowly focus in on what is best. Gotta start somewhere.

Kind of like that game on The Price is Right, Hi & Lo, where the player guesses a price and the host says higher or lower until the player gets it right or time runs out.

so what is the new bonus if not webber? more damage?

yeah, isn't there an official thread in another forum where you can make those comments?
or have they already thrown you out of it?

hmm so its like a mini mega with 8 nuetrons.... i dont mind that at all tbh...

or more a mega and a Hyperion had a baby and this came... whats that with new javelin 600+ dps? with a tacking boost

tbh i was not a fan of the webber bonus so i am biased...

if your signature is to be believed (and I have no reason not to), could it be the case that you're taking this all a bit too personally? would you really be getting this worked up if it weren't "your" design?

your original post mentioned all the T3 BC's before focusing in on the Talos, and many of your posts have been about the general role of the ship and not the Talos specifically, but ok. Was just curious as you seem disproportionately bent out of shape about this.

Are the fitting slot layouts also known?

If we get at least 1 utility high slot it will be hard to dissapoint me..

I will say that I think they are angling for the Talos "primary" role to be a rail boat for roaming and secondarily a blaster boat when camping, etc.... but that's just my uninformed take on the matter right now. We'll have to see how the hybrid update pans out during the testing of these ships to really know for sure.

If you are fighting Battleships, you are dead, battlecruisers, still dead, cruisers, good luck hitting them, frigates, don't bother. Using rails are a joke, their range advantage have little meaning when you have Pulse lasers with scorch and Autocannons with barrage that reach pretty damn far and do far more damage.

For some reason, this thread appears to be full of people pissed off that I haven't waited till december before providing feedback. Yep. How silly of me, I should have waited till point in time were the developers had already poored hundreds of man hours testing and number crunching these ship concepts, the point many weeks after initial ideas had been locked in, design paradigms fixed and the production plan committed, I should have waited till the point were these guys were in knee deep in the final sprint AKA "UberCrunch" with perhaps a dozen other really important none ship balancing things to do. Yep, I shouldn't have made a comment at the point were the biggest course corrections could be made, or at the point alternative idea's could be entertained with enough time for Q&A before launch.

Silly me.




@CCP Ytterbium
I like the underlying concept, however.
Eve, as you well aware suffers from underlying "existential" problems - some of which are tolerated by most of us without even realising. Others, like the "Gallente" problem are not.

1) You have designed ships with the survivability of T1 cruisers - Which is OK in the context of "Tornado picking off frigs and kiting most things at +50km away" with autocannons that have 2-3x more the effective tracking of Blasters at optimal+falloff BEFORE tracking enhancers are even considered.

But it's not ok in the context of a ship that, if fitted with blasters, will be doing the vast majority of it's dirty work within 30km. Why? T1 cruisers are just too slow, for the EHP they have. Survivability is the major driver of ship purchases, with Speed and EHP being the primary factors in player perception. Signature is important, but the ability to enter and leave a targets area of influence as well as damage mitigation trumps it in every real world scenario.

Compile raw data into charts and plot the global usage of interceptors since the nano nerf, ask the question "why are nano canes faster than some nano destroyers?".

The problem? The only cruisers readily flown are the ones which achieve near frig speed, or able of +BC EHP. I don't fear for the Oracle or Tornado in this regard because there weapons systems have enough in their tank to overcome this issue through shear force of will. Talos and Naga? Not so much and that leads on to...

2) Gallente... They never fitted in with the traditional class roles - to work they had to dominate all ship classes - by extension providing them with an equivalent survival factor to ships that could run away. This has been continuously eroded by direct nerfs, and what was most striking about the Talos change was that this concept was not apparent. It seems we're still back to pre 2009 thinking, the one in which ships could be a few 2% away from each other either behaving nearly exactly the same way (but not close enough to mean that players didn't cry imbalanced over the last few percent). You've demonstrated first with the Moros change (staggeringly after all that was debated about the naglfar) and now your doing it with the Talos.


Enough!

Races can only work if they feel and behave differently. The more quirks you can provide, the more differences not just in stats, but in tactics, the better. And with the Talos, and Gallente in general, it doesn't seem like your anywhere near close to breaking free from the war of percentages that drives every major balance cycle - fact, your probably fuelling it.


But yeah, thanks for engaging - like I said, the concept of T3 BC's is good, however I strongly suggest you take the above in to suggestion.



I'm going to ride this expansion like a roller-coaster, so expect vigorous debate at every stage.

I am aware of this, and do not discount the point, but two things to consider.

I seriously doubt you will be putting 425mm rails on this ship in the first place (definately could be wrong). I'm expecting them to be aimed more towards the lesser used smaller BS sized weaponry.

I tend to think of these BC's as beefed up cruisers able to mount BS weapons (similar in concept to a stealth bomber) instead of thinking about their tactical use in terms of how a BC is traditionally used in combat. You would deal with this variety of threats exactly as you would if you were flying a long range cruiser or HAC.

You will not devote much to a tank, instead you will devote most of your fit to tracking and dictating range while staying aligned for a quick warp out. That is your defense, just as it is with a cruiser. Your chief worry will be getting tackled by something small, anything large pounding on you and you will warp out and then reposition.

None of these ships are designed for a slug fest, this is intentional. They are designed to keep up with a small gang and be most effective against larger, slower targets. Again, similar in concept to a steal bomber (no cloak yes, but fast enough to keep up with a fast moving gang, fragile as hell, but delivering a big punch to big targets).

So I"m not saying you are wrong in your thinking "if" you try to use them like a standard BC... I'm saying you won't want to use them that way to be effective.

As it stands now, these BC's still have a role in w-space. Perhaps that's what the developers are going for. IDK. Their low mass + big guns will be awesome at POS bashs in w-space.

All expansions have a cut off point for continuing changes... this allows for it to be tested ;) As Soundwave said.. balancing WILL continue but the changes mentioned are the ones that will make it into this release