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Cao Cao
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Posted - 2003.08.28 15:17:00 -
[1]
Ok, a lot has been said about this topic. Remove the highways (good idea), make the highways 0.0 (hmm, not so good - not that it wouldn't be cool), or charge tolls (really bad idea).
One thing is for certain: the superhighway system in EVE is doing a lot to ruin the unique features of the game, and especially the market.
THE PROBLEM:
Every system in empire space in EVE's vast universe is now within about 10-15 jumps away from wherever you may be located. Caldari, Minmatar, Amarr, and Gallente space are all 2 jumps from each other. In any other game, this would not be a problem, it would be a blissful convenience. However, EVE isn't "any other game."
EVE relies on a market mechanism that is based on local regions having different supplies and demands. In Amarr space, you can buy the blueprints for Amarr ships. Amarr pirates drop lasers and frequency crystals. The high-level Amarr pirates drop unique, rare loot drop specific to the Amarr race. Same goes for Caladari, Minmatar, and Gallente regions and pirates.
This creates a local supply of these goods, and hence low prices in the regions where these items drop. Prices will naturally be higher in regions that do not have a natural supply of these items (heavy modulated beams and/or Maller ships in Caldari space, for example).
The superhighways have all but obliterated these regional differences. Two specific problems are created by this:
(a) rare loot from each empire is now only a hop, skip, and a jump from every other empire, effectively eliminating any sense of regional supply or demand for these items.
(b) manufacturers can now locate themselves 2 jumps from systems in every empire, and no more than 5-8 jumps from nearly every region in empire space. This permits any one producer to sell HIS ships in ALL of these regions, thereby artificially inflating supply and deflating prices.
THE SOLUTION:
My suggestion (ripped off from someone else in a different thread) is to limit highway access to SHUTTLES ONLY, and to eliminate the cargohold of shuttles. At the same time, the speed of shuttles could be increased to 1,000 m/s. Shuttles and the highways would then be a mode of fast, effective PERSONAL transportation that would allow people to travel quickly across the EVE universe quickly and effectively, all the while insulating the marketplace from the damaging effects outlined above.
Individuals and corporations would be able to participate in events by traveling to the destination in a shuttle, and purchasing a ship on-site. A similar analogy would be taking an airplane from New York to California, and then renting/buying a car at your destination. If you want to use your own car, you gotta spend a lot more time traveling.
To reiterate: although I think removing the highways altogether is the BEST result, barring that, limiting them to shuttles and eliminating shuttle cargohold (essential to protect the regional supplies and demands of blueprints and items made from them) is the best alternative. Travel convenience and market integrity are both preserved by this solution.
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SISQO
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Posted - 2003.08.28 15:21:00 -
[2]
Very nice idea, I'm in full support. Its about damn time people can't have access to all regions within a few minutes jumping distance. You want an extruded heat sink in Minmatar space? Then your going to have to contact a trader or travel to another "empire space". Damn drooling at that thought already, trade and market getting a needed boost out of this.
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Athule Snanm
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Posted - 2003.08.28 15:24:00 -
[3]
Simple, but brilliant! I like it!
Maybe frigates as well as shuttles perhaps though.
_______________________________
Doomheim - EVE's only hygiene! |
Erty
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Posted - 2003.08.28 15:24:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Erty on 28/08/2003 15:27:13
Great idea, even though I love the highways as they are right now :)
Or maybe some sort of customs (only on the highways).
If you traveled with the highway gates you would have to pay a fee for everything you have in your cargo hold (different for different items, offcourse)...so it really wouldn't be any good idea to take the highway to some system and sell your stuff higher there - the profit would be eaten up anyway.
This is my signature. |
Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.08.28 15:24:00 -
[5]
Meh, I said remove them. But I'm always up for a good compromise.
Nothing bigger than a shuttle is a good compromise.
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2003.08.28 15:24:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Joshua Calvert on 28/08/2003 15:24:30
Gee, let me see, do 15 jumps in a shuttle to pay a higher price for a Moa (plus the 14 or so modules needed to equip it) or do 30 jumps and take my current ship/equipment with me.
I want the highways removed but limiting them to shuttles wouldn't acheive anything.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Master Scy
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Posted - 2003.08.28 15:25:00 -
[7]
One issue that has to be dealt with BEFORE this change, my agent at a higway system gives missions to systems that require ~5 jumps through a highway gate. Some of the missions need me to transport 300 cargo. If agents continue to do this and I can no longer use highway gates, I'll have 20 jump missions where I had 5 jump missions before...
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You think Marco Polo said
"Damn Mongolians were camping that cave entry into the next valley the entire day, you can't get friggin anywhere in the world with those damn griefer tribes all over the place" ?
-Indigo Seqi
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Carbon
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Posted - 2003.08.28 15:27:00 -
[8]
Um, no. There aren't enough active people for this to be worth un-implementing and removing it would be asking for more griefer-camping-podfests. The highway system was put in to connect the regional economies and reduce travel time. It is working.
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Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.08.28 15:27:00 -
[9]
 Quote:
Edited by: Joshua Calvert on 28/08/2003 15:24:30
Gee, let me see, do 15 jumps in a shuttle to pay a higher price for a Moa (plus the 14 or so modules needed to equip it) or do 30 jumps and take my current ship/equipment with me.
I want the highways removed but limiting them to shuttles wouldn't acheive anything.
It's a lot more than that. It's not 30 jumps between Heimatar and Khanid. It's a bit more than that.
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Invictus
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Posted - 2003.08.28 15:28:00 -
[10]
Its all good. prices suck for the manufacturer/seller. Destroy them or limit the use.
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Does the cookie jar have cookies in it? Or just a few hand-fulls of maggots?
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Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2003.08.28 15:29:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Joshua Calvert on 28/08/2003 15:33:40
Just remove super highways, add some 0.0 space between empires, a dash of salt & pepper, and we have a cooking pot of pirate happiness with a garnish of manufacturer glee.
This could be further expanded by CONCORD being disbanded and bringing system security under the control of Minmatar/Amarr etc Navy.
The "excuse" for the new 0.0 areas could be roleplayed by skirmishes betwee race navy and so they have a designated "no-fly" zone between the security forces.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Zorgan
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Posted - 2003.08.28 15:33:00 -
[12]
you idiots should find another topic....the Highway system is great... you are the problem! your ideas suck ass... |
Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.08.28 15:37:00 -
[13]
Quote:
One issue that has to be dealt with BEFORE this change, my agent at a higway system gives missions to systems that require ~5 jumps through a highway gate. Some of the missions need me to transport 300 cargo. If agents continue to do this and I can no longer use highway gates, I'll have 20 jump missions where I had 5 jump missions before...
Easier to raise the agent mission reward to make it worth 20 jumps. If our autopilot can calculate the number of jumps between 2 solar systems, the agents should be able to access the same information.
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Cao Cao
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Posted - 2003.08.28 15:39:00 -
[14]
Quote:
Just remove super highways, add some 0.0 space between empires, a dash of salt & pepper, and we have a cooking pot of pirate happiness with a garnish of manufacturer glee.
I happen to think that this suggestion is by far the BEST thing that could happen. However, a nagging voice in the back of my head is telling me CCP won't go for this idea, whether it is because certain players would complain to no end, or because they don't want to be seen as adding major features one week and removing them the next.
This suggestion is simply a compromise that I believe can really work, and has a real chance of happening. Again, I think removing the highways completely would be 100% the best thing they could do. Adding 0.0 - 0.4 space between the empires would be even better (and should still happen regardless).
However, restricting their use to shuttles without cargoholds, in my personal opinion, has the best chance of being implemented (if anyone even reads this forum from CCP) and completely insulates the market, which is the real goal.
That doesn't mean that other things shouldn't be done: (a) making all pre-patch BPCs licensed to x number of runs; (b) reducing the max number of licensed runs on new BPCs; (c) making all BPCs copy without mineral efficiency or productivity research, yadda yadda... Lots of stuff has to be done still but restricting highway access is a good start.
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Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.08.28 15:40:00 -
[15]
Quote:
you idiots should find another topic....the Highway system is great... you are the problem! your ideas suck ass...
Forget it Zorgan. You can flame all you want and you might even get the thread locked. But the topic doesn't come anywhere near violating any of the forum rules and it's easy enough to make a new thread.
Try harder
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Lao Tzu
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Posted - 2003.08.28 15:40:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Lao Tzu on 28/08/2003 15:40:20
I'd like to see the highway gone as well, although a heavy toll based on ship type or cargo value would be an improvment.
Make it cheap to get yourself around, but expensive to move large ships and expensive cargo through the gates.
But no Highway at all would be my choice.
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Nicholas Marshal
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Posted - 2003.08.28 15:40:00 -
[17]
Highways should remain as they are. They work fine.
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Isla
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Posted - 2003.08.28 15:41:00 -
[18]
Before the highways everyone moaned about travel times. Now people moan about something else.
Leave the highways alone ffs.
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Mantrus
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Posted - 2003.08.28 15:41:00 -
[19]
Yes, Highways should remain their current state.
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Cao Cao
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Posted - 2003.08.28 15:42:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Cao Cao on 28/08/2003 15:44:33
Quote:
you idiots should find another topic....the Highway system is great... you are the problem! your ideas suck ass...
Zorgan,
This is probably the 5th reply to one of these threads that I have seen you post. However, in every single one of them you do nothing but flame or rant. If you come up with an argument that either explains why this solution is NOT good, or an alternate suggestion that could fix the problem outlined in my original post, then your text would be worth reading.
EDIT: Why isn't anyone advocating keeping highways as they are now addressing the PROBLEM that is outlined above? There is a problem, and you people aren't proposing solutions or even a REASON why the highways are fine the way they are now.
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Qandor
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Posted - 2003.08.28 15:48:00 -
[21]
Removing the highways will lose more players than keeping the highway. They would be crazy to remove the highways at this point. Let's face it, everytime you jump you are zoning. Everytime you dock you are zoning. Folks probably spend more time zoning and approaching zones than anything else. Now we are to remove the highways and add more zoning?
As it is EVE is like playing EQ with a zoneline every 100 yards and when you want to go buy something in that hut over there, you need to zone into it?
Personally I think the whole concept from the get go was ill advised. They would have been far better off with less systems that were larger and contained more. Maybe then you would have actually been able to see other folks from time to time instead of having everyone spread out in 20,000 different zones.
Much easier to handle server wise I would guess with all these zones. Certainly overcrowding is a rarity but it surely doesn't make for interesting game play or sense of community.
Think of EVE with the contents of a current constellation being contained in a single system. Now you might have some real population for a given system. Now maybe pirating wouldn't just have to boil down to gate camping. What would we have then, maybe 30 belts in a system, perhaps 30 or 40 stations? Lots of folks hussling to and fro. More player interaction. Potentially more conflict. Most of all, a lot less of this god forsaken zoning.
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Riana Tabost
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Posted - 2003.08.28 16:05:00 -
[22]
I don't believe it is a good idea to remove the highways completely.
I do believe they are making the market more like a gas rather than a liquid.
I believe the best solution to highways is to
a) remove highways that link empires.
b) not allow highway use until empire faction ratings reach a certain level.
c) fees for all jumpgates dependant on volume of ship. These need only be very small to begin with. Tying in with c, faction ratings could reduce the cost of transit.
Making shuttles the only vessels to be able to use highways is near enough to pointless AND it doesn't technically make sense. If a shuttle can use superhighways, why can't a frigate?... and so on.
__________________________________________________________________________
May I recommend a Cybernetic Subprocessor?.. That's an intelligence implant, sweetheart.
Ideas Lab - Reprocessing |
Ana Khouri
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Posted - 2003.08.28 16:08:00 -
[23]
Bigger, more populated system would undoubtly have been better - but they would have been a LOT more laggy.
I think ccp included the superhighways because a lot of people (and reviewers) complained about the long travel times.
Problem is that that change wrecked the already unstable player-drive economy even more, and 75% of all core systems could safely be removed now, because noone goes into them anymore.
free speech not allowed here |
Cao Cao
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Posted - 2003.08.28 16:27:00 -
[24]
Quote:
Making shuttles the only vessels to be able to use highways is near enough to pointless AND it doesn't technically make sense. If a shuttle can use superhighways, why can't a frigate?... and so on.
It is far from pointless. The empires don't want combat vessels or cargo-carrying vessels able to jump into their home systems. Why would the Caldari want to permit a Gallente fleet of combat vessels including battleships, cruisers, and frigates to jump right into New Caldari? Wouldn't that risk a repeat of what happened when the Caldari lost their home planet and system in the first place?
It would be akin to the United States allowing free and unrestricted air travel to foreign bombers directly over Washington, D.C.
THAT is what doesn't make sense, although we DO permit passenger travel into Washington, D.C. (read: shuttles!).
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Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.08.28 16:38:00 -
[25]
Quote:
Bigger, more populated system would undoubtly have been better - but they would have been a LOT more laggy.
I think ccp included the superhighways because a lot of people (and reviewers) complained about the long travel times.
Problem is that that change wrecked the already unstable player-drive economy even more, and 75% of all core systems could safely be removed now, because noone goes into them anymore.
The size of the empire regions should be able to support the increased traffic. Yulai, Pator, New Caldari, Amarr and others see a large volume of traffic. But where I'm located in Metropolis? Half the people you see there are corp members and out of the rest, you might see 1-3 with any regularity.
Most of the empire space is completely underutilized. I'd also say this would be a good time to consider bringing Spodumain back if done too 
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Riana Tabost
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Posted - 2003.08.28 16:49:00 -
[26]
Cao Cao: I understand your point. From a trade perspective, people flowing through areas is a good thing yet military vessels flowing is a bad thing. Why not then industrials?
Remember that currently the entry point into Caldari space, the Gallente jumpgate, is under Gallente control. And vice-versa. This is why I say you completely remove inter-empire highways.
It could be justified by saying super-highways jumps require a device at each end of the jump... 
__________________________________________________________________________
May I recommend a Cybernetic Subprocessor?.. That's an intelligence implant, sweetheart.
Ideas Lab - Reprocessing |
MrPops
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Posted - 2003.08.28 16:57:00 -
[27]
What is this? now the highways are ruining the economy? It seems to me everything is ruining the economy these days. Even the "carebears" have been blamed. This situation has become a witch hunt and people are running out of things to blame the market situation on.
Rigth now there is no way to fix the economy untill lvl 2 technology comes in full force. The highways will actually facilitate trade and markets. Who the hell wants to spend all day warping from point to point to pickup an item? Why would they not have a highway system interconnecting regions? If you don't like the highways then take the long way home.
We all wanted a faster way to get around and now you want them taken away? What's wrong with you people? Do you have some kind of sadistic addiction to making over 30-70 jumps to get to some parts of the universe?
"The human species suffers from a dimensional limitation. They are not able to understand that matter and mind are just one aspect of something more fundamental. We must strive to expand our perspective so we can see what our true reality is."
Deep toughts by Mr.Pops, while consuming large quantities of Blue Pill and staring at the EVE gate in Genesis.
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Riana Tabost
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Posted - 2003.08.28 17:03:00 -
[28]
MrPops: Ok, clearly the single biggest thing that impacts the economy in a non-realistic way is a total lack of expenses.
Docking, jumping, ship-crew, ship repairs (as devices rather than station services... maybe they should require some on-board minerals?)... but this is off topic.
__________________________________________________________________________
May I recommend a Cybernetic Subprocessor?.. That's an intelligence implant, sweetheart.
Ideas Lab - Reprocessing |
TheZapper
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Posted - 2003.08.28 17:05:00 -
[29]
Change Nothing. The System is fine as is, there's nothing to see here... move along.
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TerminusX
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Posted - 2003.08.28 17:08:00 -
[30]
This could open up a whole new market segment in the world of Eve. Renting Ships! Of course, late fees and damage fees would really be high, to avoid scamming. Of course, this is quite a complicated thing to initiate. I do agree that something has to be done about the superhighways. What exactly, is up to CCP.
Divine Retribution - My name is TerminusX, prepare to die. |
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