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Noctoz
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Posted - 2003.08.28 15:44:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Noctoz on 28/08/2003 15:44:46
This post is only about the combat aspect of the game so please read it with that in mind.
Currently this game has one big problem.
There are hardly ever any PvP combat part from the occasional event where someone is caught by a suprise attack or when someone fails to run a blockade and decides to try pick a fight.
Why? Because there currently is no way to catch a player taht don't want to fight unless he makes a mistake. You can warp away to a new location before your invulnerablity wears off and then nobody can target you to warp away.
And also, every system has some way to land directly on the gate so that you can jump before anyone can take a shot.
It's also impossible to find someone that is hiding among all the moons or even better at some spot in open space that they have bookmarked after flying there with a MWD.
Because of this what will always happen is that as soon as someone is outnumbered, which one party will be almost every time they will simply run and hide.
This takes away most of the fun for he player that is after the PvP part of this game.
A few sollutions to this whould be.
- Make it less of a loss to actually loose your ship in combat. Sure there must be a price but for many people loosing there ship will be truly devastating. Maybe make insurance better and cheaper so that you basically will get back your ship when you die and only loose equipment. YOur cargo whould also be lost of course. This whould be kind of rough for indy pilots sometimes but it has always been my oppinion even before I became a pirate that you shoudl not be able to trasport valuable stuff through 0.0 space safely EVER.
Making the loss of your ship less of a disaster whould probably give us mroe corp wars as well.
- Also we need a way to prevent people from simply run and as soon as they are in danger.
And please no flames about that I only want to catch more people at gate. The same situation exist for anyone who have tried to hunt down pirates or any other opponent. If people want to be safe from scrambling they should need to put on a warp core stabilizer and not just instawarp when they drop out and see some enemies. This needs to come together with the above suggestion though as more losses of ships currently whould risk to cause a lot of canceled subscriptions.
- Cloaking whould be a very good addition so I hope it will make it into the game shortly. Curently you jsut look at local and if you see any danger there you run and hide. There is no element of surprise at all unless you catch someone that is half asleep or semi afk.
- Player owned structures whould also be a great addition as this whould give people something to defend. Something that will prevent them from simply run and hide.
What needs to be dealed with here though is to make sure you don't loose those valuable and probably very expensive thingies too easily as this will create a situation where there will hardly be any player owned structures or that they are all deep in empire space where nobody can attack them without getting blown away by concord.
This is all I can think of for now. There are probably more to it but one thing is certain and that is that something needs to be done if this game is to stay fun for anyone else then traders.
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NoctoZ
Black Reign
Curse Alliance |
Entity
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Posted - 2003.08.28 15:47:00 -
[2]
 Quote:
- Make it less of a loss to actually loose your ship in combat. Sure there must be a price but for many people loosing there ship will be truly devastating.
Nah. thats "player error". Some people go out and buy a new ship as soon as they can afford it, leaving them with 0 isk in the bank and not enough assets to recover if they end up losing their fancy new ship. Tough luck ;-)
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Danton Marcellus
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Posted - 2003.08.28 15:50:00 -
[3]
That's right you know, people should wait till they have about 10 times the money needed to recover the loss of a battleship, expect me to engage in PvP combat sometime around 2010.
Convert Stations
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nono
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Posted - 2003.08.28 15:51:00 -
[4]
>> Maybe make insurance better and cheaper so that you basically will get back your ship when you die and only loose equipment.<<
You actually profit by losing your ship with platinum insurance. As laid out before you can easily make over 30 million a day and never leave the station.
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Discorporation
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Posted - 2003.08.28 15:53:00 -
[5]
You can self-destruct within a station, nono?
[Heterocephalus glaber]
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Noctoz
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Posted - 2003.08.28 15:54:00 -
[6]
Yes but that is kind of a bug and I assume it will be dealth with.
And I know you should afford to loose your ship before you go out and fight but face it. This will give us alot less combat as few people find it very entertaining to do all the mining/npc hunting/trading required to get the money for a BB over and over and over again.
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NoctoZ
Black Reign
Curse Alliance |
SavX
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Posted - 2003.08.28 15:56:00 -
[7]
Quote:
That's right you know, people should wait till they have about 10 times the money needed to recover the loss of a battleship, expect me to engage in PvP combat sometime around 2010.
Lol, I'll be waiting. They should introduce a new scanner that scans the system your in, to find people and then you are able to warp to them ^_^
How about specail systems for PvP. Systems where ANYTHING goes, like 0.0, but theres no pirates. Where players can't warp maybe, when you jump into one of those systems, you are 100km away from the gate, or 100km from the other gate. Where people who want a REAL challange should go : )
Don't Kill The Corp.. Kill the Suppliers. |
Noctoz
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Posted - 2003.08.28 16:10:00 -
[8]
while it's a good idea it whouldn't really colve the problem. People whould only fo there when they had a huge combat force ready and this whould make all the other space safe.
As I said before I think there should be dangerous to go into 0.0 space.
Currently it's not. At least not much.
I know I could fly back and forth laughing at my enemies in a n00b frigatte even if they had 100 battleships in system. There simply is no way for them to touch me unless my game crash. or I start go lagg.
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NoctoZ
Black Reign
Curse Alliance |
Hikaru Okuda
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Posted - 2003.08.28 16:31:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Hikaru Okuda on 28/08/2003 16:39:08
Yeah...
There is something wrong when flying around in shuttle is "safer" than flying around in a well equipped cruiser or battleship. I've never shied away from a fight, but lately I haven't had time to make any ISK (too much RL work) so it can take a while to save up for a battle. When things are really busy and I can only put in a few hours a week... It's just difficult to make the ISK. With insurance expiring every week, you have to have a constant ISK flow or it's just not worth it. Even if insurance continued to be the same price, making it last longer than a week (maybe like the clones--last forever until you use it) more people would fight.
Some people who would love to PvP are not because it takes so long to build up the money. PvP for a couple of minutes, lose your ship, go mine and trade or NPC hunt (at least NPC hunting is a little fun). Thank goodness you can do skill training offline. I would not have bought this game if it required hours and hours to "skill up" by killing rats or whatever... While obviously you put in more time, you make more money... But right now it is skewed way too far in that you HAVE to put in a lot of time to really save up for fun PvP. Anyway, I tend purchase replacement ships before needing them (not just having the cash around) so I'm ready. But as mentioned above, when RL intrudes I have to go a long time before fighting anybody dangerous. It's bad enough a CTD can let NPC pirates get a chance at killing you...
And yes, it should be easier to catch someone when they are out in the lawless 0.0--you know the risk when you go out there.
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nono
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Posted - 2003.08.28 16:44:00 -
[10]
Quote:
You can self-destruct within a station, nono?
You didn't know that Discorp?
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Riana Tabost
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Posted - 2003.08.28 16:58:00 -
[11]
Well if you add a touch of realism to insurance, you wouldn't have exploits. Take the players history, apply correlating insurance deal... start with low rating.
Additionally, players should be able to set the duration of the contract (paid weekly via 'payables') and adjust the coverage...
Currently insuring a Frigate Class vessel is near to pointless because the equipment is more expensive than the ship.
__________________________________________________________________________
May I recommend a Cybernetic Subprocessor?.. That's an intelligence implant, sweetheart.
Ideas Lab - Reprocessing |
Magallen
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Posted - 2003.08.28 17:15:00 -
[12]
Losing a ship should be painful but not devestating. If I was to lose my Battleship in PvP that would really set me back a ton. What about all those other players who can devote less time to playing EVE then me? It's worse for them.
Have insurance last for the life of your ship and just have it replace your lost ship. You still lose your weapons, modules and even your life, lol. That hurts but possible to recover from.
Also end hiding with in solar systems. Make if where the person can only run but not hide till he thinks he is safe enough to log off from his persuers. Let's be realistic here every one will log off rather than face certain death so give them the oppurtunity to do so even if their being hounded in the system their in. Their must be a way to escape certain defeat the vast majority of the time or else we will see very little combat.
Corporation wars are useless. We need player made installations that can be captured in times of war or damaged severely so raiding attacks can be usefull. Corporation warfare as many have said it should be like a big game of RISK.
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Ulstan
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Posted - 2003.08.28 17:37:00 -
[13]
First of all, we need to do away with the immunity timers caused by warping, both when you enter and exit warp.
But before we can do that, we need to change the way objects are loaded during warp so someone doesn't die before they are in control of their ship.
We also nee a way to IGNORE asteroids in scanning a solar system.
And we need skills/modules to analyze a crafts warp trail and be able to tell where he is going. We need skills/modules to let you warp faster than 2.00 AU so that you could, with a heavy investment in the right skills and modules, see a ship enter warp, be able to figure out where he was going, and then get there before him.
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Jorev
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Posted - 2003.08.28 18:03:00 -
[14]
You assume most people want to PvP.
That is false.
Look at EQ for instance where only a very small fraction of the playerbase played on PvP servers.
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Tivalus LinG
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Posted - 2003.08.28 18:22:00 -
[15]
(Tivalus) any chance we ever see warpscramble missiles? would be a nice way to force long range combat:P
(TomB) yes
There ya go, no more easy warp-away combat.
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The Wretch
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Posted - 2003.08.28 18:30:00 -
[16]
How to make eve more fun:
Just say no to the forums.
The Wretch
Cyberdyne Systems CEO
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Jarrick Camdar
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Posted - 2003.08.28 18:47:00 -
[17]
Quote:
You assume most people want to PvP.
That is false.
Look at EQ for instance where only a very small fraction of the playerbase played on PvP servers.
Bingo. Excellent but depressing point. We even had this problem in DAoC, believe it or not, a game built for PvP conflict. People hate to die - they love the idea they can kill someone else, but never want it to be them.
Here's the problem. Without player vs. player conflict of some sort this game is dead. Because:
- The economy needs destruction to get it kickstarted. If people start losing cruisers and weapons in battle things will heat up for manufacturers.
- And players need to feel at risk in order to feel significant reward. The NPC environment can't provide that risk, players must step in... if only they were allowed to...
Jarrick
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Zorakk
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Posted - 2003.08.28 19:08:00 -
[18]
I think the problem with people being scared to lose their ships points to another issues. It's the same in this game as RL. People who can't afford to drive a BS over extend then are scared to death to lose it or use it. WTF is the purpose of having a large scale killing machine of war if you can't not afford to use it? Another symptom on this problem was the way that people blew thru the ship lvls and immediatly assummed the lower ships were worthless. That is NOT true. I currently use cruisers. Will stay in cruisers. I can afford multiple and losing one is not that big a deal. I did the same with frigates when I had 5. When it gets economically feasible to move to a Battleship and I can risk that amount of money with easy replacement I will. Till then I will fly in a group of cruisers that can handle a Battleship. You know it's not really that hard to drop a cruiser with a few(4 or 5) frigates if your creative. Even a well equipped one.
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Noctoz
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Posted - 2003.08.28 19:55:00 -
[19]
Insurance working the way clones do whould be nice. For the careful player this is an investment that will assure you are not left helpless if you loose your ship and for those that fight alot it is a way to afford it.
It will still cost you millions for a clone and a good insurance every time you happen to die but it whould allow people to go into combat without the feeling that they might have to work weeks to get a new ship if they fail. As an active player the current system work quite well for me as I can earn the money needed for insurance quite easily and have a good network of people that I can buy cheap ships and equipment from but for a lot this is not the reality. I know from my own experience that quite often things from real life takes so much time that you can't be on very much and if this means you should not be able to fight PvP then you the casual gamers are shut out form that part of the game.
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NoctoZ
Black Reign
Curse Alliance |
Noctoz
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Posted - 2003.08.28 22:42:00 -
[20]
Zorakk.
DO you expect people to get 400-500M isk before they actually do any pvp combat in their Battleships?
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NoctoZ
Black Reign
Curse Alliance |
Beseb
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Posted - 2003.08.28 23:10:00 -
[21]
What they should do is introduce the new ore they are planning in "special sectors". These special sectors would have intense electromagnetic storms or some such (whatever RP physics you like) that cause navigation and some sensor equipment not to function properly.
Basically, these sectors would lure the money hungry because of the enormous wealth of the ore there, but likewise attract the pirates as they know their prey won't be able to navigate easily out of the system.
Fits the risk vs reward system perfectly.
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Noctoz
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Posted - 2003.08.29 01:47:00 -
[22]
While it's a nice suggestion it is not a sullution to the problem.
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NoctoZ
Black Reign
Curse Alliance |
Intruders
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Posted - 2003.08.29 12:59:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Intruders on 29/08/2003 13:01:19
Quote:
with a heavy investment in the right skills and modules, see a ship enter warp, be able to figure out where he was going, and then get there before him.
It is very easy to understand where someone is warping, especially in 0.0 systems where not many orbital items exist like stations etc. you simply watch his warp trail if you pay attention to what he does, and follow him to the visible target (gate, roid belt or station) that intercepts his/hers warp path.
But likewise it is very easy too to set traps to people that follow this tactic, and make him warp to a place you re not in, but he has laid a trap out for you if you decide to follow him.
Every man lives..but not every man dies!
My sig sux |
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