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Getting newbies out of their comfort zone

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Remiel Pollard Stirling Iron Society 1796	Posted - 2013.10.19 12:35:00 - [1] - Quote I'm about to go to bed, so I won't be around for a few hours to see or respond to immediate replies to this thread, but I would like to see some discussion about encouraging players to leave NPC corps. I know this discussion has occurred before, but it seems to have fallen off the radar, and a conversation with some associates of mine has sparked a few ideas that I think we can hash out and debug. For one, we talked about a more in-your-face approach by CCP by way of perhaps a set of NPC corporations that new players will 'graduate' to when they hit a certain number of SP, or by some other grading measure. When they hit this 'level' they are bumped out of whatever starter corporation they were in into the new one, which is subject to the same war declaration mechanics as a player run corporation. We understand that there are a few flaws with this idea, such as the wide range of corporations that would automatically wardec such corporations if they were to be introduced. So, another idea we talked about was perhaps an incremental increase in tax rates for players that remain in NPC corporations for extended periods of time. For example, tack on an extra 5% a week or something with a notification to the player stating that joining a player-run corporation with lower tax rates would improve their income. But we don't really like either of these ideas, even thought they have their pros, mostly because they don't really address the problem of the difficulty a new player may have in joining a corp without being made immediately aware of new-player-friendly corps like Brave Newbies, EVE Uni or RvB and they don't really encourage inclusiveness. Nor do they address the paranoia that a new applicant might be faced with if trying to join a corporation that is perhaps a little elitist, and they don't directly address the "I'm going to play an MMO solo" attitude that many such players that remain in NPC corps are often afflicted by. We've had other ideas, but none worth mentioning for the time being. We do feel, however, that more can be done with a little thought and discussion, and we also feel that more needs to be done. In any case, I'd like to reopen this discussion again and gather the thoughts of respected GD regulars on the matter. I know being a very socially awkward person myself that one of the hardest things in this game for me was getting involved with the right group of people, which after much hassle and discomfort, I finally managed to do. I've never felt more like part of the game, and part of the community, than I have with the guys and girls I fly with now. You don't scare me. I've been to Jita.
Varius Xeral Galactic Trade Syndicate 1440	Posted - 2013.10.19 12:44:00 - [2] - Quote It's simple. Create an incentive for player corporations to exist and, crucially, persist in hisec. Then new players will have an incentive to leave NPC corps, and hisec corps will have an incentive to recruit them. Hisec pocos are a start, but hisec desperately needs more organizational rewards and a massive nerfhammer to solo rewards. This is now a nerf hisec thread. Official Representative of The Nullsec Zealot Cabal
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai 2191	Posted - 2013.10.19 12:51:00 - [3] - Quote What makes you think that people will pay for the privilege of being forcibly dragged outside of their comfort zone? The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden!
Krixtal Icefluxor INLAND EMPIRE Galactic 58696	Posted - 2013.10.19 12:54:00 - [4] - Quote Why do you even CARE ? No really. Why is this of all things so important to OP ? "People should come and join EVE then be absolutely forced into gameplay modes they are not interested in at all. Yup, it's a sandbox, and it's MY sandbox". Sounds like a perfect formula for business disaster and fading subscriptions. Why are so anxious to kill the thing you like ? Can you even look at yourself seriously in the mirror without being disappointed in what you see ? "Who thinks it's normal to kneel down to a naked man who's nailed to a cross? It's like a bad leather bar." -- John Waters
Na Und Galactronics 53	Posted - 2013.10.19 13:00:00 - [5] - Quote Log on. Choose Character. "Oh, look! A wardec!" Log off.
Skeln Thargensen Alpha Sperglords 233	Posted - 2013.10.19 13:04:00 - [6] - Quote bin the holding corps and bump people back to their schools when dropping player corps. real communities like CAS exist and the no turning back thing is really off putting to people in them. they have to make alts to try out the player corp life. freelance space bum
Seven Koskanaiken Under the Wings of Fury Atrocitas 406	Posted - 2013.10.19 13:06:00 - [7] - Quote any corp requiring > 1 million SP should be banned from the new-player tag on the corp finder. there are corps using that tag who want 10 mill SP furfuxsake. this is especially bad because the finder has a finite number of results, or at least did when i last used it. no wonder people don't leave the npc when they can't even find a corp that will take their SP.
Doc Severide Caldari Provisions Caldari State 113	Posted - 2013.10.19 13:09:00 - [8] - Quote My first thought is Mind Your Own Business and leave people alone to play how THEY want to. But as someone who spends most of their time in an NPC Corp I have answers... I avoid taxes easily. I have my main(s) in my own corp and pay none. I have this and a few other alts to hang out in various NPC chats so I can interact a little with others. I simply have no interest in player corps and can play just fine on my own. I refuse to jump through the fire just to APPLY to get into a corp. API, 100 questions, a blood test, semen samples, etc, etc, etc. Oh, but I wont ever get into a "good" corp without all that. I don't care, I don't want to get in a corp. I'm not interested in playing with melodramatic jerks making demands on my playing time. NOTHING CCP does will force me out of an NPC corp. I will quit first...so MYOB... Everyone is always repeating the mantra "Don't Trust Anyone" ad nauseum... If I can't trust the guys I play with, why bother playing with them at all? Fly Solo...
Mara Pahrdi The Order of Anoyia 425	Posted - 2013.10.19 13:26:00 - [9] - Quote Na Und wrote: Log on. Choose Character. "Oh, look! A wardec!" Log off. Log on. Choose alt. /Fixed. Remove insurance.
Krixtal Icefluxor INLAND EMPIRE Galactic 58698	Posted - 2013.10.19 13:29:00 - [10] - Quote Wondering when these laughable Corps and Alliances will start requiring Real Life Resumes and curriculum vitae for membership inclusion. "Who thinks it's normal to kneel down to a naked man who's nailed to a cross? It's like a bad leather bar." -- John Waters
Kaarous Aldurald ROC Academy The ROC 1242	Posted - 2013.10.19 13:39:00 - [11] - Quote Varius Xeral wrote: It's simple. Create an incentive for player corporations to exist and, crucially, persist in hisec. Then new players will have an incentive to leave NPC corps, and hisec corps will have an incentive to recruit them. Hisec pocos are a start, but hisec desperately needs more organizational rewards and a massive nerfhammer to solo rewards. This is now a nerf hisec thread. Improve incentives for the player run corporations, and remove incentives for the NPC corps. Highsec corps really, if you think about it, have very little reason to exist aside from the small benefit of shared resources in a corp hangar. They have no assets worth defending, so they think nothing of dropping corp for a wardec, or just never logging in. And NPC corps are way too lenient. I believe that after a certain period, perhaps after the first 30 days of paid subscription, your NPC corp should tax you to death. That's a good reason to move to a real corp. "solo rewards" aren't strictly the problem, though, not as I see it. More of a distinct lack of both carrot and stick vis a vi player and NPC corps. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á
Skeln Thargensen Alpha Sperglords 233	Posted - 2013.10.19 13:49:00 - [12] - Quote it's so much better when we train for 8m to make our hilarously named solo corp with all our alts in it and a 0% tax rate. apart from easier wallet management i might as well be in the scope. freelance space bum
Ezrothian Alpha-Papa 7	Posted - 2013.10.19 13:49:00 - [13] - Quote I can't see how any of these ideas would meaningfully change anyone's playstyle. If CCP did this then someone would just make a player Corp with 0% tax for people who want to play solo. You can't force social interaction by changing game mechanics.
EvEa Deva State War Academy Caldari State 384	Posted - 2013.10.19 13:49:00 - [14] - Quote Some people can be shown the light so to speak, If you take them by the hand and show them the way. The die hards, just don't waste your time or energy trying to drag them kicking and screaming from highsec.
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai 2191	Posted - 2013.10.19 13:55:00 - [15] - Quote Hotel New Eden announcement: "With regards to our clients who stay at the kids' pool rather than go swim at our gorgeous and world-unique sharks pool, we have decided to interrupt the ongoing operations to incentivate the use of the later over the former. Thus, no more piranhas will be added to the kid's pool, we will forbid to throw electrical appliances into the water and our personnel will be advised to not use the kid's pool as a toilet. Also we want to deny the rumors about adding a springboard to the kids' pool so our clients enjoy their stay better. The experiments to wire springboards with claymore mines have failed so far, but we will keep trying. ~The Management" The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden!
Abdiel Kavash Paladin Order Fidelas Constans 1380	Posted - 2013.10.19 13:57:00 - [16] - Quote The problem isn't that people don't want to join corps, the problem is that there is rarely a reason to do so in highsec. Instead of whipping NPC corps, add more content that encourages people to team up. Incursions were a good step in that direction. If you want to specifically promote player corps (as opposed to pick-up groups), create a sort of mini-PDA structure anchorable in highsec that spawns various levels of PvE content for the owning corporation. This should scale between requiring 1 and dozens of players to compete, and provide more income than lvl 4 missions. (omg buff highsec income heresy!) However no matter what you do there will be people who will simply refuse to fight against or work with other people, regardless of the rewards. But keep in mind that these people still pay their subscription and in turn pay for continual development of the game. They don't deserve any more attention than cattle: give them their minimum wage ISK faucets and harvest them for the subscription money/killmails.
Weiland Taur Cerberus Federation WHY so Seri0Us 121	Posted - 2013.10.19 14:06:00 - [17] - Quote Firstly, MMO does not mean MUST MINGLE ONLINE. Eve is a sandbox, if you want to be the hermit in the corner than more power to you. That having been said, let's stop pretending that NPC corps are not social constructs. In NPC corps you have hundreds of potential conversational/play partners just as you do in large alliances and or player run corps. However, while an NPC groupie, you are able to team up with people without dealing with some micro-napoleon director and or CEO telling you how to play the game. You are safe from the horrible mechanic that makes corp thefts so stunningly easy and yes, while you have to deal with the real time threats of gankers, pirates and griefers, you are able to avoid stunningly boring, unwanted wardecs. Gankers, pirates, thieves, small gang pvp and bumpers can be fun, for the most part, unsolicited hisec wardecs are not. Most importantly, to revisit an earlier point, while I was able to interact and form relationships with other players, I wasn't beholden to them. For some people being a cog in the machine is exactly what they want and they excel. More power to them. For others, having others around while calling their own shots is the path they demand. So let's stop pretending that NPC corps somehow lessen player interaction because A. you can't wardec them, or B. you can't tell them what to do. And lets stop pretending that they don't also serve an important logistics role for those massive null sec alliances where people are playing the game the "real way." In the spirit of contributing to the solution to this so called problem, perhaps the answer is not getting rid of NPC corps but creating sub divisions where NPC players can voluntarily make themselves potential targets in exchange for lower tax rates or some other creative reward. I imagine this could be modeled on the Faction Warfare system in some way and would provide a potentially large pool of motivated targets.
Abdiel Kavash Paladin Order Fidelas Constans 1382	Posted - 2013.10.19 14:11:00 - [18] - Quote Honestly, clearing up common misconceptions about corps / alliances / lowsec / nullsec would go much further in persuading people to participate than any mechanic changes. It would also be much more difficult than implementing any possible mechanic change.
Weiland Taur Cerberus Federation WHY so Seri0Us 121	Posted - 2013.10.19 14:24:00 - [19] - Quote Abdiel Kavash wrote: Honestly, clearing up common misconceptions about corps / alliances / lowsec / nullsec would go much further in persuading people to participate than any mechanic changes. It would also be much more difficult than implementing any possible mechanic change. While I agree that any mechanic change in Eve is fraught with the potential for fiery failure, I would be interested to know what misconceptions you are referring to.
Skeln Thargensen Alpha Sperglords 233	Posted - 2013.10.19 14:49:00 - [20] - Quote my general perception of null is that the politics are horrible, people tell you what to do and if a CTA goes out then you have to drop IRL **** to play a feckin videogame. and that's probably either a complete misconception or a stereotype of a corp/alliance that just plain sucks but i don't think i'm alone in this. freelance space bum
Seven Koskanaiken Under the Wings of Fury Atrocitas 406	Posted - 2013.10.19 15:02:00 - [21] - Quote Skeln Thargensen wrote: my general perception of null is that the politics are horrible, people tell you what to do and if a CTA goes out then you have to drop IRL **** to play a feckin videogame. and that's probably either a complete misconception or a stereotype of a corp/alliance that just plain sucks but i don't think i'm alone in this. well during fountain war there were many important CTAs and not only did certain people in a certain alliance totally ignore the CTA to stay at home and carry on ratting but at least one pilot actually complained that with everyone deployed there would be no one left to save his carrier if he got in trouble so, yea lol
Doc Severide Caldari Provisions Caldari State 115	Posted - 2013.10.19 15:19:00 - [22] - Quote Krixtal Icefluxor wrote: Wondering when these laughable Corps and Alliances will start requiring Real Life Resumes and curriculum vitae for membership inclusion. Now thats hilarious. Don't give anyone ideas...LOL Everyone is always repeating the mantra "Don't Trust Anyone" ad nauseum... If I can't trust the guys I play with, why bother playing with them at all? Fly Solo...
Skeln Thargensen Alpha Sperglords 233	Posted - 2013.10.19 15:25:00 - [23] - Quote Seven Koskanaiken wrote: Skeln Thargensen wrote: my general perception of null is that the politics are horrible, people tell you what to do and if a CTA goes out then you have to drop IRL **** to play a feckin videogame. and that's probably either a complete misconception or a stereotype of a corp/alliance that just plain sucks but i don't think i'm alone in this. well during fountain war there were many important CTAs and not only did certain people in a certain alliance totally ignore the CTA to stay at home and carry on ratting but at least one pilot actually complained that with everyone deployed there would be no one left to save his carrier if he got in trouble so, yea lol hmm, maybe there's a devilishly subtle propaganda campaign to convince everyone that null sec sucks so that they don't get more of that sort of player. freelance space bum
Kaarous Aldurald ROC Academy The ROC 1243	Posted - 2013.10.19 15:31:00 - [24] - Quote Skeln Thargensen wrote: Seven Koskanaiken wrote: Skeln Thargensen wrote: my general perception of null is that the politics are horrible, people tell you what to do and if a CTA goes out then you have to drop IRL **** to play a feckin videogame. and that's probably either a complete misconception or a stereotype of a corp/alliance that just plain sucks but i don't think i'm alone in this. well during fountain war there were many important CTAs and not only did certain people in a certain alliance totally ignore the CTA to stay at home and carry on ratting but at least one pilot actually complained that with everyone deployed there would be no one left to save his carrier if he got in trouble so, yea lol hmm, maybe there's a devilishly subtle propaganda campaign to convince everyone that null sec sucks so that they don't get more of that sort of player. It could also be that a lot of the **** they get about being "tyrants" and "facists" and oppressive and such is actually one of the single most common things in human interaction. The have-nots hating on the haves. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á
Doc Severide Caldari Provisions Caldari State 116	Posted - 2013.10.19 15:31:00 - [25] - Quote Abdiel Kavash wrote: ... give them their minimum wage ISK faucets... I make far more than mimimum wage ISK. And the rest of your post tells me that we aren't important to the game at all just because we want to play solo? Get stuffed... Everyone is always repeating the mantra "Don't Trust Anyone" ad nauseum... If I can't trust the guys I play with, why bother playing with them at all? Fly Solo...
Anslo The Scope Gallente Federation 2939	Posted - 2013.10.19 15:38:00 - [26] - Quote NPC corp PVP is the most fun I've had on eve in a long time. Blap all the things. No war decs. Fun community. No nutty CEO demanding **. So no. I'll quit eve before being forced to join a player corp. off. -\_For the Proveldtariat_/-**
Silvetica Dian Manson Family Advent of Fate 205	Posted - 2013.10.19 15:40:00 - [27] - Quote Weiland Taur wrote: Abdiel Kavash wrote: Honestly, clearing up common misconceptions about corps / alliances / lowsec / nullsec would go much further in persuading people to participate than any mechanic changes. It would also be much more difficult than implementing any possible mechanic change. While I agree that any mechanic change in Eve is fraught with the potential for fiery failure, I would be interested to know what misconceptions you are referring to. That evil gate campers will kill u as soon as u enter low/null. That to live in null you must sell your soul to a huge alliance and follow their every order. That you can make more isk in lvl 4 missions. That moving around in low/null is hard. That you need 100 mill SP to even consider PVP just a few off the top of my head
Beekeeper Bob Beekeepers Anonymous 760	Posted - 2013.10.19 15:51:00 - [28] - Quote TLDR.... Why do you care about the new players, and their interaction with the game? Why do you insist they must do things that you want them too? Are you Republican? I too am excited about trading playability for more lag and shiny pictures.....:( Petition for a Minimum bounty of 10 mil. Prevent useless bounties!
Jasmine Assasin State War Academy Caldari State 64	Posted - 2013.10.19 16:15:00 - [29] - Quote Beekeeper Bob wrote: TLDR.... Why do you care about the new players, and their interaction with the game? Why do you insist they must do things that you want them too? Are you Republican? Are you a Democrat
Black Canary Jnr Kongsberg Vaapenfabrikk Amarr branch. Sev3rance 23	Posted - 2013.10.19 16:25:00 - [30] - Quote Seven Koskanaiken wrote: Skeln Thargensen wrote: my general perception of null is that the politics are horrible, people tell you what to do and if a CTA goes out then you have to drop IRL **** to play a feckin videogame. and that's probably either a complete misconception or a stereotype of a corp/alliance that just plain sucks but i don't think i'm alone in this. well during fountain war there were many important CTAs and not only did certain people in a certain alliance totally ignore the CTA to stay at home and carry on ratting but at least one pilot actually complained that with everyone deployed there would be no one left to save his carrier if he got in trouble so, yea lol CTA = If you have a couple of hours, real life permiting (show me a corp that does not emphasise RL first?), you go join the CTA fleet. Unless you have like 1 day to get the isk to plex up or are in a bill isk mining link, full virtue set w/e clone you can't clone jump out of, those are reasonable reasons to not be in a CTA and are pretty rare circumstances. 99.99 percent of engagements are not CTAs anyways. Interestingly some alliances have a 'no CTA' policy, these are j4g scrublords and a good way to find juicy officer fail fit ships. I hope the ratting carrier guy got kicked and ganked, just for sending out such a scrub message.

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