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Josh Wink
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Posted - 2006.01.31 16:18:00 -
[1]
How new players can best earn cash in the early days of an MMORPG is perhaps a very common question, but after a frustating few days in space, I feel the topic deserves special attention in Eve Online. Indeed, arriving as an experienced World of Warcraft player, I have to admit I am a bit bewildered at this point.
Let me digress. In terms of my character development, my strategy is this: to train the learning skills up to advanced level 4 before doing much else. With each advanced learning book costing around 4.5 million, the challenge of amassing approximately 23 million ISK looks - at this stage at least - to be a very tough one. Perhaps my strategy is a foolish one, I am unsure. I now ask you all for help on strategies, tips, and advice on the most efficient way to hit this 23 million target - without logging on to ebay of course...
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Kylania
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Posted - 2006.01.31 16:35:00 -
[2]
Don't do that. :) It'll be horribly boring and won't really help you as a newbie. While eventually you'll need the Advanced Learning skills to IV, that isn't until say.. six months down the line.
When you first start you should concentrate on skills you need for basic items and ships. Frigate III, Spaceship Command III, skills for your guns, afterburners, power diag systems, co-processors, shield boosters, hull upgrades and the like.
Once you have basic skills in order to actually play the game, use the modules you've found and stay alive on missions, then take the week or two to train your Learning skills to IV. Instant Recall, Analytical Mind, Learning, Spatial Awareness and Iron Will to IV. Empathy too if you decide to do trading.
At this point you're probably just about ready for a Cruiser. Since that skill, and the other 'mid level' skills for things for cruisers take longer, your Learning skills will pay off here. Go ahead and spend some time getting your other skills higher now. Higher level Engineering and Electronic skills. Maybe start picking up a few level V skills for lower end abilities. Get to the point where you can fly your cruiser safely and well and most of your "I should train this next" skills are around a week or two to learn.
At that point you'll want to spend a month or so training your Learning skills from IV -> V, then picking up the advanced versions of them and train those to III right away, probably also IV. Taking them to V will not pay off for a long long time. Since you're in a cruiser, at least, by now and have skills enough to handle yourself, you should be able to collect the 4.5 million you need per skill at this point. You'll also notice that your week long skills are now probably only a few days, and those 25-30 day skills are down to 22 days or so.
I know when I was at that stage I had 110 day of training planned. Battleship, mining barge, inteceptors and the like. I than added 25 days of training Learning skills up, and that cut the whole training time down to 94 days (not 135 days as it would have seemed)! Learning skills are vital... eventually. :) No need to rush into them, take your time, learn your ships, then when you need to specilize into advanced ships, then learn the advanced learning skills.
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Lil Miner |
Zafon
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Posted - 2006.01.31 16:39:00 -
[3]
What she said 
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Josh Wink
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Posted - 2006.01.31 16:41:00 -
[4]
Kylania, your advice is most useful. Would you mind if I messaged you ingame at some point?
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Kylania
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Posted - 2006.01.31 16:55:00 -
[5]
Not at all. :)
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Lil Miner |
Gauge Lockhart
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Posted - 2006.01.31 17:10:00 -
[6]
I would just like to point out that THERE ARE literate WoW players out there.
I, too, will take your advice Ky! 
_______________________________________________
-=The Believer is Happy; the Skeptic is Wise=-
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Coveney
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Posted - 2006.01.31 17:15:00 -
[7]
Not much to add, The way she said explain everything. But on thing to think, look at the modules and the skills they need, read the skills descriptions you can find in the database, because alot of the skills will help, look at some for the capacitor, shield in Engineering, CPU in electronics. Weapon upgrade in the gunnery. look at the skills in the Navigation tree, like Navigation, Afterburner, Warp drive upgrade. I giving alot of skills maybe, but read them, they will help you with your ship by being bale to put better modules, capacitor capacity and recharge, same for the shield, modules using less energy to use (not all of them).
That would be about that.
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<--- He made me do it. |
Josh Wink
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Posted - 2006.01.31 17:17:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Josh Wink on 31/01/2006 17:17:42
Hehe, not quite sure if you're taking a swipe at my writing skills or not Gauge, but I hope you got some good information from Kylania and Coveney's responses. Any further comments anyone?
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bgc Ellegon
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Posted - 2006.01.31 17:21:00 -
[9]
The one thing I did to earn money (only playing for about 3 weeks now) is to trade with an Industrial Ship. The smallest one in your case already has 3300 m3 (wreathe). If I calculated correctly you can pump that up to 4346 m3 with 2 Basic Cargo Expanders. By using Containers you can even get to roughly 5200 m3.
If you invest a bit more time and go to Industrial 2 you can buy a Hoarder, which has 5100 m3. 3 Basic Expanders bring it up to 7756 and with containers around 9000 m3. With that space you can make some good basic trades, sometimes even in a solarsystem (no jumps) for 300k - 500k per flight. That sums up pretty quickly and I did that a lot semi-afk while watching a DVD or so ;)
I'm not saying that is THE best route, but it served me well and made it possible to buy me 2 cruisers (Mining and Fighting), among some frigates I bought on the way.
Maybe you can give it a try...
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Malena Panic
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Posted - 2006.01.31 17:52:00 -
[10]
Like many new Eve players, I also thought I'd train learning first and then get the cool flying and combat skills for cheap. Thing is, you do need quite a few skills sooner rather than later. What I've been doing is training key combat skills to LIII during the weekend, when I'm usually playing, and training my Learning skills during the week.
Doing it this way, I've got the skills I need to pilot my Destroyer with a decent fitting, and still have managed to sink 2/3 of my .5 mil SP into learning skills. It's a nice compromise.
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Josh Wink
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Posted - 2006.01.31 18:04:00 -
[11]
a plethora of good advice here, these tips are invaluable to new players like me. Keep it coming...
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Simon Jax
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Posted - 2006.01.31 18:26:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Simon Jax on 31/01/2006 18:26:09
My advice is somewhat along the same lines as Kylania's, though I think I've been doing well for myself by focusing a little bit more on Learning than she suggests.
Basically, I break it down to playtime vs. offtime. I train 'practical' skills (Gunnery/Navigation/etc.) when playing, and the basic learning skills during offtime.
It doesn't take long to find yourself looking at a lot of your practical skills with 1-12 day training times! And here is where I see use in having been working on the training skills. I made it a 'goal' to keep offtime set for Learning, but I have by no means been doing it at the exclusion of all else. I've trained the odd 1-5 day skill during offtime as well.
I have the advanced Mem and Int skills trained up to lvl 3 already, and after I get them both to 4 it's on to put Learning at lvl 5. However, that's not going to happen until I get Drone lvl 5 (2.5 days away).
--Wherever you go, there you are. |
Violet Manganese
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Posted - 2006.01.31 18:32:00 -
[13]
With such excellent posters as Kylania et al giving us newcomers invaluable advice, this thread would deserve a sticky. Thank you all for taking your time helping us! :)
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Vaux
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Posted - 2006.01.31 19:14:00 -
[14]
What Kylania said.
And as for making money, here are a few general ideas to peak your interests. Some general ways to make money are obvious, but you can put a twist on things to maximize your income levels.
Agent Missions - get your Social skills up and you can advance much faster. Also doing missions in groups will allow you to be much more successful.
Mining: Anyone can mine, but Ninja Mining or Jet Can mining is much more profitable. Ninja Mining is when you go into a low security system and run when pirates come. Jet Can mining is when you mine into a can and come back later with your industrial to pick it up. Or better yet, get a group of friends and mine together, and one person can haul.
NPC Rat Hunting: Every system 0.8 and below has them. You can get some good rewards and good loot, too.
Hauling: If you click the missions button, and click the "Courrier" tab. You will see a whole lot of player-created missions, many with good rewards. This will most often require an industrial ship and sometimes a good bit of cash for the collateral.
Trading: NPC Trade-Goods trading is a whole other game itself. Do some research if you're interested in this, and get an industrial ship. There are also many other forms of player manufactured goods trading as well.
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Vaux
CEO, Red Frog Investments |
Jevonek Hune
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Posted - 2006.01.31 21:05:00 -
[15]
Just another Ex WoWer that feels the need to post here as he is in awe in the sheer amount of constructive and mature posts on these forums...
Thanks the good post, I started getting a little pre occupied with the learning skills myself but then I started into the pattern that Kylania had posted and and am having much more fun as a result.
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Brastagi
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Posted - 2006.01.31 21:52:00 -
[16]
Just remember to plan ahead what you need to train and BE PATIENT about it since it take times unlike WoW where you grind lvl to get skillpoints and new skill.
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~Mencari orang Indo~ |
Cindy Miner
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Posted - 2006.01.31 23:05:00 -
[17]
Joining a good corporation and getting invited to Level 4 missions is also a great way to make ISK. My corp took me along, I'm about 5 days into the game, and with bounties alone I got over 2.5 mil ISK, I was also given 500k ISK as a share of the loot. That's 3 mil for an evenings fun.
I was in a Griffin that was given to me from another corp member. I have equipped it best I can with my current skills and managed to survive numerous hits before I realised to warp out before the fatal blow. All 3 indicator bars were solid red when I warped to safety. I also nearly took out a rat on my own before on of the corp's drones finished it off for me.
Also corp member generosity can be amazing. I was given another 2mil ISK towards an advanced learning skill (the memory one).
Another bonus in the corp I'm in is that once I'm able to fly an Osprey and after my probation period I will be given one. I'm a little reluctant to accept since I'd like to earn one on my own and maybe even make it, using resources I've gathered for it.
Also after the probation period I will be allowed to look/pick over the loot they have accumalted to fit out my new ship/s.
This game is amazing. I've been up to 3am almost every night this last week. My wife's not too happy with me. :)
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Tony Fats
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Posted - 2006.02.01 00:10:00 -
[18]
In the very early stages you have 3 paths :
1) Mine. Easiest. Find a quiet system, check the ore/mineral prices, jettison something and mine into the can, then come and collect the ore with a hauler. Take ore to base with a refinery, melt it down, stockpile/sell the minerals.
2) Missions. Moderate. Start with level 1, train up connections skill, train up cruiser, start doing level 2's, train up battlecruiser, start doing level 3's.
3) NPC Trade. Hard. Do some missions for starting money. Buy a hauler. Buy trade goods low, sell high. Avoid lowsec at first, but you need to go lowsec for the big bucks. Work the market.
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Waenn Ironstaff
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Posted - 2006.02.01 03:12:00 -
[19]
Awesome advice on the Learning skills curve... I thought I would be able to make things go faster by taking them to level 5 asap but guess I'll focus on the practical ones instead :)
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SpaceDrake Storyteller
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Posted - 2006.02.01 04:00:00 -
[20]
You definitely want to get practical skills first. In fact, I might go so far as to suggest waiting until AFTER you get some good cruiser skills or industrial skills. Make no mistake, the payoff for advanced learning skills is worth it... but it's still a month of no practical advances. You'll want to ensure you can enjoy the game in the meantime.
Also, remember that your practical skill focus should be different depending on your racial focus (and you should focus on your race's vessels at first, going scattershot with ships really slows you down.) Gallente should get to Drones 5 as soon as is practical to do so, since every vessel of theirs larger than a frigate basically assumes you have Drones 5 trained; Caldari will want to make sure their missile and shield skills are trained well; Minmatar will want a mix of projectile and missile skills; and Amarr will want to focus heavily on Engineering and Mechanic to exploit their large armor and powergrid.
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What good are actions if there's no one to tell the tale afterward?
Player of the character "Andre Ricard". |
Gauge Lockhart
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Posted - 2006.02.01 04:11:00 -
[21]
 Originally by: Josh Wink
Edited by: Josh Wink on 31/01/2006 17:17:42
Hehe, not quite sure if you're taking a swipe at my writing skills or not Gauge, but I hope you got some good information from Kylania and Coveney's responses. Any further comments anyone?
no swipe, I assure you. I intended no sarcasm!
Your time on the WoW boards must have jaded you... not many get away unscathed with their sanity intact.
I, too, am continually impressed with the community of EVE.
_______________________________________________
-=The Believer is Happy; the Skeptic is Wise=-
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Jordania
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Posted - 2006.02.01 04:33:00 -
[22]
Here is a little tip from me... I don't know how helpful this will be as I have only recently discovered it myself.
If you run missions/rat hunt alot collect all the loot and refine everything thats not named or that you can't use. You will amass a surprisingly large amount of Minerals in a very short time. Now instead of paying other people for my ships I saved enough for the BPO and now build my own.
This may not be of SO much use to you at this point in the game though a little further down the track (once you've got your learning skills) you can save a fair amount of money building what you need.
_________________
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Josh Wink
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Posted - 2006.02.01 10:21:00 -
[23]
I didn't realise there were so many different options starting out...from reading these posts i think the main thing new players need to do is THINK LONG TERM!!! Nothing spectacular is going to happen overnight.
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Suhadi
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Posted - 2006.02.01 10:56:00 -
[24]
Let's not forget PIRATING! 
Yes, even new players can become pirates, check the very useful guide in the Crime and Punishment forum.
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- Suhadi |
Winter Star
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Posted - 2006.02.01 11:01:00 -
[25]
And most important (imo) is that if you try something and find you are not having fun doing it... don't do it! 
Go try something else. I personally cannot stand to mine for much more than 30 minutes - so I don't do mining. However I don't mind trading as it requires a modicum of thought and planning which keeps the brain ticking over - unlike mining 
Please resize your signature graphic to be smaller than 400 pixels in width - Jacques' |
Wilfan Ret'nub
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Posted - 2006.02.01 15:57:00 -
[26]
Might I add another suggestion: do kill missions for agents in low-sec (0.1-0.4) systems. Preferrably in quieter ones that are a bit off the main lanes.
Rewards (both cash, bonus and LPs) are much higher (about twice as much) than for comparable agents in high-sec. And as most missions are in deadspace, you only have to worry about gatecampers.
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Majodach
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Posted - 2006.02.01 16:30:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Vaux
NPC Rat Hunting: Every system 0.8 and below has them. You can get some good rewards and good loot, too.
I really think this needs emphasizing. I have soon played this game for 2 years and have been mainly doing lvl 3/lvl 4 kill mission lately. When doing these it is not uncommon to find loot that can be sold on the market at decent prices. I normally don't bother selling anything I believe I can't get 500k or more for.
Anyway, the other day I took a newb rl friend out for hunting in a 0.8 belt (he was in an Ibis, 3 day old char and doing well). I haven't been doing this for well over a year, apart from instakilling the rats when mining in empire and ignoring the loot cans, so I was really surprised when he gathered the loot and asked me for some advice on what to do with it. In quite a short time he had gathered loot that would sell on the market for several hundred thousands of isk, close to 1M. For a veteran player this is nothing, but being new to the game it can be an extremely good source of income. Maybe he was lucky, or CCP have really boosted the small-rat-loot-tables.
Don't just recycle the loot without checking the market details. Put up sell orders checking "lowest" and "highest" in price history using the table layout (never trust regional average, check price history and also what other people are offering) and you are almost guaranteed a sale sooner or later. Most important, don't try and fill other peoples insanely low market orders just to get quick isk!
It might be a good idea to train the Trade skill a level or two so you can have a few orders out at the same time. It is a fairly cheap rank 1 skill that trains quickly. I aim to always have maxed out on sell orders saving valuable loot and putting new orders up as soon as the old ones are filled. This way your wallet will grow slowly, but also when you are away from the game.
Do not adjust your mind - it is reality that is malfunctioning. |
Saphathas
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Posted - 2006.02.02 06:18:00 -
[28]
My advice:
Learn more about the market and how much modules and ships are worth. When selling loots, never just sell them to the buyers at the current station. Right click on the module, and check its market details.
If the item is a good named item, place a sell order with reasonable price and be patient.
I don't know how many times when I first started that I sold 200mm scout AC for 10000isk when they are well over 1 mil each.
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Ted Raald
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Posted - 2006.02.02 09:23:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Wilfan Ret'nub
Might I add another suggestion: do kill missions for agents in low-sec (0.1-0.4) systems. Preferrably in quieter ones that are a bit off the main lanes.
You jest, for a new player!! or are you a waiting at that gate
STAY out of .4 until you can afford to loose that which you are flying.
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Josh Wink
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Posted - 2006.02.02 10:47:00 -
[30]
Great stuff, this thread has certainly stimulated some excellent discussion on how us new people can make cash in the early days! I certainly won't be going back to World of Warcraft! Any more tips folks?
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Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2006.02.02 10:57:00 -
[31]
Read my guide tbh.
--
Proud member of the [23].
The Tachikomas are DEAD! Click sig for video.
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Chuck Noriss
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Posted - 2006.02.02 11:58:00 -
[32]
Edited by: Chuck Noriss on 02/02/2006 11:59:22
pay a low price for ore (undercut buy orders, helps if you have market skills) then get your refining skills up and standing up for a particluar corp (this is to get a high yield like 95%)--make sure you go to a 50% yield station.
Refine the ore and haul it to other stations for a huge profit--refined ore takes up little cargo room compared to the ore itself.
Where I mine, lots of people are desperate to sell their ore at 10-15% loss sometimes For instance, some fool sold me 100k units of Fiery Kernite for 40isk each hehe.
Roundhouse BAM! |
Explorer One
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Posted - 2006.02.02 15:15:00 -
[33]
Train an alt (not your main as its likly to get stuck in systems until they quieten down) to be able to fly a fast frigate (like a probe).
Bring the Map up,
Set the start to show NPC Pirate faction kills.
Then click show stations.
Look for a BIG number of faction kills, at most 1 jump from a station in a system of 0.0 / 0.1 security status.
Take your new alt into the system, most npc hunters will panic when they see a name appear in local and warp to safe spot,
You can now cycle thru the belts and help yourself to any loot you find in the tins, then fast as you can leg it back to safe empire to sell your spoils.
A nice easy hassle free way of making money early on :-)
Regards
EO
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Wilfan Ret'nub
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Posted - 2006.02.02 16:42:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Ted Raald
Originally by: Wilfan Ret'nub
Might I add another suggestion: do kill missions for agents in low-sec (0.1-0.4) systems. Preferrably in quieter ones that are a bit off the main lanes.
You jest, for a new player!! or are you a waiting at that gate
You'll die as fast a 30 mil. SP player. Actually, new players have some advantages when it comes to gate camps: they fly frigates which align faster, take longer to lock on and they have cheap gear so pirates might skip them if there's a juicier target nearby.
Those that snipe noobs for fun are camping gates on routes for first storyline missions or gates to low-sec near newbie areas.
My experience: I have ran into exactly 1 gate camp in the last month of low-sec travels. Still managed to warp away, and that in a cruiser. I did missions in low-sec with 5+ pirates in local. No attacks, just an increased heartbeat. But I got podded in a matter of hours when I started ratting in low-sec 5 jumps away from newbie areas.
Originally by: Ted Raald
STAY out of .4 until you can afford to loose that which you are flying.
Hear hear. Though spending a fortune and then trying a mission for the first time (or just after getting your ship blown on the same mission) is equally stupid.
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Simon Jax
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Posted - 2006.02.02 20:44:00 -
[35]
Something to mention about the Market. I'm not 100% sure this is what is happening, but there are a few items that are common-drops in the area I'm in. Someone had set buy orders on 'em that seemed pretty good, and a fair bit higher than the regional average. In fact, looking at the Market there were very few on the market that you could buy from other players for as much as he was paying outright.
It was some T1 power transfer thingie (or somesuch) that I have no use for, and was getting 3 at a time from mission rats. Selling them for 12k apiece seemed like a pretty darn good deal.
Until I checked the reprocessing of said item. The thing yielded 3 Megacite per unit reprocessed even with my crappy skills/standing. A mineral that sells for over 4k apiece. So the other person could easily be buying up what is a common drop, reprocessing them, and selling the resulting minerals for a tidy profit at the end of the day.
--Wherever you go, there you are. |
Iao Aopo
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Posted - 2006.02.03 02:09:00 -
[36]
Isn't 12k a piece the same as selling 3 pieces at 4k each?
I'm not very good at math.
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Josh Wink
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Posted - 2006.02.03 16:42:00 -
[37]
a plethora of good advice here, these tips are invaluable to new players like me. Keep it coming...
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Simon Jax
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Posted - 2006.02.03 20:18:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Iao Aopo
Isn't 12k a piece the same as selling 3 pieces at 4k each?
I'm not very good at math.
The one sells for 12k, yes. I should have said that the Megacyte sells for at least 4k apiece. And there is a few hundred of several other minerals in there too.
So what I was getting at holds true. Selling 1 @ 12k ended up being a fair bit less than selling the resulting minerals at market value. Also, don't consider it on a one-time only basis. I have no need of the 12k right now. But as I hoard the stuff and keep my eye on nice buy prices I end up with far more isk from selling those minerals than the instant sell price would have net me.
--Wherever you go, there you are. |
Iao Aopo
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Posted - 2006.02.04 02:42:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Simon Jax
Originally by: Iao Aopo
Isn't 12k a piece the same as selling 3 pieces at 4k each?
I'm not very good at math.
The one sells for 12k, yes. I should have said that the Megacyte sells for at least 4k apiece. And there is a few hundred of several other minerals in there too.
So what I was getting at holds true. Selling 1 @ 12k ended up being a fair bit less than selling the resulting minerals at market value. Also, don't consider it on a one-time only basis. I have no need of the 12k right now. But as I hoard the stuff and keep my eye on nice buy prices I end up with far more isk from selling those minerals than the instant sell price would have net me.
That makes much more sense. Thanks for entertaining my newbieness!
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More Ahn
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Posted - 2006.02.06 04:53:00 -
[40]
It's quite possible to make money by doing the old "place buy order below mineral price, wait for people who don't like to reprocess to sell stuff to you" bit. It's a fairly boring method of making money, but it does help save the environment.
Exactly which modules, I'm afraid I'll have to leave as an exercise for the reader.  |
Josh Wink
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Posted - 2006.02.07 13:08:00 -
[41]
lovely stuff...
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BLAIYNE
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Posted - 2006.02.07 15:06:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Explorer One
Train an alt (not your main as its likly to get stuck in systems until they quieten down) to be able to fly a fast frigate (like a probe).
Bring the Map up,
Set the start to show NPC Pirate faction kills.
Then click show stations.
Look for a BIG number of faction kills, at most 1 jump from a station in a system of 0.0 / 0.1 security status.
Take your new alt into the system, most npc hunters will panic when they see a name appear in local and warp to safe spot,
You can now cycle thru the belts and help yourself to any loot you find in the tins, then fast as you can leg it back to safe empire to sell your spoils.
A nice easy hassle free way of making money early on :-)
Regards
EO
A couple of points here:
Firstly be very careful if you have relatively few skill points and are tempted to venture into lower security space (0.4 and below). You will be a target for the local player pirates, and if you intend to go into 0.0 you may run into pirate gatecamps (where they sit at the gate and kill anything that comes through). Be ready to die a lot, and make sure your clone is up to date! Maybe the best way initially is to join a corporation that has access to lower security space.
Secondly, taking loot from a can from a rat killed by another player will flag you to them, and allow them to kill you in Empire space (I think the timer is 15 minutes). Player pirates use this in secure space to try and entice players to empty their can. They then have 15 minutes to kill the player who empties the can without any Concord interference!
Also be aware that loot thieves are not popular - especially when they take loot from a player who busy killing rats right next to the cans at the time!
Good luck!
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Eton Favre
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Posted - 2006.02.11 21:34:00 -
[43]
I'm a miner and a bit of a lazy one so I'l sometimes pay for someone to transport my ore back to the station. You would need to have an industrial. I did it for a few people when I was starting out. It does not take alot of work and you can chat with people in local / gang makes the time pass. Some trust needs to be established but I'm a trusting person. I just find it easier to give a person part (30-50%) of my mining as payment depending on my mood than mining by myself and brining the hauler out everyhour. Group mining makes things alot more fun as there is someone to talk to. My sugestion pick a spot in a .7 system and ask in local. there are usually 1 or 2 people that would be interested.
Eton Favre
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