Just looked at the topics on the forums and many threads have something in the lines of "eve is a pvp game, remove hi-sec, all miners must die, all carebears must be ganked, need force-undock module, etc" Basically if you aren't flying around trying to shoot at other people you are playing the game wrong and should just biomass yourself. I'm interested in where this is coming from. Obviously it mostly comes up for trolling purposes, but a great deal of people do subscribe to this notion and are unwilling to see past it and I would like to know why that is.

I play EvE because I like flying spaceships. I like how you can fit ships in EvE. I like the huge amount of ships and modules available and that there is actually a balance and everything is useful depending on the situation. I like that there is no end-game and no "best ship". I like the lack of safety, "no respawn" and that you can kill anyone and everything (supercap proliferation aside ofc). I like the way the economy works and that there is a history behind every piece of equipment. I like how EvE works, for the most part anyway.

Someone found a DED site and sold me the bookmark. I ran the site and got a mach bpc. I took all my bpcs to empire and paid a guy to move them to a factory station. I had to avoid many people that were out to get me soon as they saw me. Someone had to mine the ice to fuel my carrier. I then got on my alt and bought some minerals in Jita. Someone had to make the ships to mine the rocks to get those minerals and move them to jita and then list them where they eventually end up in my hands. I then paid another guy to move the minerals to my factory station because there were 7 wardecs on me. After my ships were ready they were sold. Perhaps one of them is in low-sec hunting other people, one might be in an incursion fleet as this post is written and I'm sure that at least 2 are busy shooting red crosses in lvl 4s. Eventually they will die, but hopefully not before bringing either wealth or glory to their owners, reduced to a wreck which might live on as a piece of a rig that I myself might buy one day. I think this is beautiful. Why people see this game as only the assisting in the destruction of things is beyond me.

And this PvP that many hold in such high regard isn't even that good. I like reading about all those 2k man blob fests, but I still know that it's a bunch of F1 monkeys with only a few people doing anything skillful. So small-gank... erm gang warfare. Well most of those fights are ganks. Most fights have the outcome decided before the fight begins and if it's not favorable all effort is made to avoid the fight. Most of the time PvP in EvE boils down to a bunch of running around and then a little bit of shooting. It's fun to do sometimes, but it doesn't exactly stand out as something great. The closest thing to a fair fight in eve are the alliance tournaments, but such an arranged arena style combat has no place in the sandbox and thus can be ingored.

PvP can ofcourse be fun. Dropping a bunch of bombers on someone is funny. Being on the receiving end however is not and I can totally relate to the unfortunate victim. For me blowing stuff up just for killmail's sake falls short of having a good time especially if you factor all the time and effort it takes to get it done. The pace and balance of it all is not enough for my liking to elevate it above the other things you can do in this game.

If you compare EvE to something like quake, dota or starcraft you will need to admit that an encounter in those other games will require way more skill then your average skirmish in EvE. And incidentally the more people you have the less skill you need. For pvp I like those games way more. I love getting the perfect rocket-plasma-rail combo in quake, I love a perfectly timed combo in a dota teamfight and I like they way I placed my units in starcraft as they destroyed the other guy's army without me having to worry about someone not aligning or flying out of rep range. With all these and more options why would I waste my time on EvE pvp when in the same time I could get way more good fights from any of those other options that I enjoy more?

I like spaceships and spreadsheets. I would like for someone to explain why I'm playing the game wrong. Oh and there isn't any butthurt in this post. Many will try to prove otherwise, but most of the losses on this toon are from flying drunk or bad cynos so nothing to complain about.

I'm really interested why one activity (pew pew) is so overwhelmingly favored that anyone not of the same mind set and favoring something different deserves ridicule. Anyone got an answer?

Odd, I have seen entirely the opposite

Many many threads complaining that EvE doesn't play itself enough for some people and that High Sec isnt safe enough

Jall miners must die, all carebears must be ganked

If we're not out blowing **** up, then who buys all that crap that's getting made by industrialists?

Don't think too much about it

There's thinking in EVE?

I just press F1 when told.

The attitude/belief that Eve is a PVP game comes from the developers who made and maintain the game who have stated, 'Eve is a PVP game'.

Hm, I see you have not advanced to the elite drone assist doctrines

After reading "compared to quake" and "needs no skills" i can safely conclude
that the OP is suffering from Dunning Kruger Effect.


Good luck, fellow posters.

Because obviously everyone in EvE is playing at an FC level, have deep knowledge of the game and wisdom from experience and is not just doing what they are told and pressing F1.

Skill
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
A skill is the learned ability to carry out a task with pre-determined results often within a given amount of time, energy, or both[citation needed]. In other words the abilities that one possesses. Skills can often be divided into domain-general and domain-specific skills. For example, in the domain of work, some general skills would include time management, teamwork and leadership, self motivation and others, whereas domain-specific skills would be useful only for a certain job. Skill usually requires certain environmental stimuli and situations to assess the level of skill being shown and used.

So by this definition what I said is true. In quake you need to press way more buttons then in EvE. You also need to move your mouse more. You also need to keep track of all the weapon spawn timers, quad timers, you need to hear where your opponent is and know his armor and hp levels, there's no overview to help with this. Also nowhere did I say I'm any good at anything.

Possibly one of the best, well thought out, and reasonable requests for a button in the esc menu that allows you to go back to WoW.

In quake you need to press way more buttons then in EvE. You also need to move your mouse more.

Because obviously everyone in EvE is playing at an FC level, have deep knowledge of the game and wisdom from experience and is not just doing what they are told and pressing F1.

Skill
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
A skill is the learned ability to carry out a task with pre-determined results often within a given amount of time, energy, or both[citation needed]. In other words the abilities that one possesses. Skills can often be divided into domain-general and domain-specific skills. For example, in the domain of work, some general skills would include time management, teamwork and leadership, self motivation and others, whereas domain-specific skills would be useful only for a certain job. Skill usually requires certain environmental stimuli and situations to assess the level of skill being shown and used.

So by this definition what I said is true. In quake you need to press way more buttons then in EvE. You also need to move your mouse more. You also need to keep track of all the weapon spawn timers, quad timers, you need to hear where your opponent is and know his armor and hp levels, there's no overview to help with this. Also nowhere did I say I'm any good at anything.

Possibly one of the best, well thought out, and reasonable requests for a button in the esc menu that allows you to go back to WoW.

Hm, I see you have not advanced to the elite drone assist doctrines

Ah yes, the all-powerful, AFK drone blob, powered by one man.

Would it just be a "solo fleet" then?

Therefore Quake requires more intelligence to play than being an Air Traffic Controller does


************OP on Crack Alert**********

Face it, when you are in a fleet where you could just as well be replaced with ISboxer and the fleet might manage better because of improved alpha it doesn't take skill, at least your part in it. The guy running the show is a different matter all together.

Why do so many see EvE as "shoot at other people PvP" game?

Therefore Quake requires more intelligence to play than being an Air Traffic Controller does


************OP on Crack Alert**********

Because the "shoot other people PvP" is the most awesome part of the game.

First you start playing eve, you fly around, run some missions etc.
Then you do some exploration, wormholes and such and think "this is pretty cool I suppose"
Then you get attacked in lowsec, your heartrate jumps to about 200 beats per minute and your hands start shaking.

Then at some point you just kind of realise that you've been doing nothing but PvP for the past 5 years and EVE is totally a PvP game where you shoot at other people.

Can't say in all my EvE-Years I've ever served in an operation such as the one you describe


My brother was in Hydra's Great Null Sec Misadventure, and Ill tell you that it took skill too extract himself from that debacle with his Hurricane intact

But please tell me more about how moving your mouse a lot helps you learn how to infiltrate corps and destroy alliances

Or build Caps

Or explore W-Space

Or transport material up and down from Jita to Venal

this how forced undocking works..

its great for the gankers till they are forced to undock when they don't wanna. then its not fair.

this how forced undocking works..

its great for the gankers till they are forced to undock when they don't wanna. then its not fair.

Eve in the opening video says the goal is power. Force is usually the most effective way of gaining and exerting power.

Why do you bring up wow when we are talking about PvP. I've never played wow, mostly because it doesn't have any spaceships in it.

Eve in the opening video says the goal is power. Force is usually the most effective way of gaining and exerting power.

You mean command of force. You alone will have little force.

You mean command of force. You alone will have little force.

Cannibal Kane would teach you otherwise.

Cannibal Kane would teach you otherwise.

The shirtless blond guy shooting nubs in hi-sec? I doubt it, I don't go to hi-sec that much.

Did i spot a strawman?

You thought I live in hi-sec?

Doesn't everyone have alts in highsec

Doesn't everyone keep them in npc corps and as anonymous as possible?

He is so right! I always look at these blob-ganks stuff and think ... where are you balls? PVP in this game seems to have a different meaning every other has in mind:
Instead of having a skilled competition who is the best pilot (SP and skill-wise) it's nearly only number-based factors that decide an outcome of a PVP-Fight. Also this attitude of people just going for every f*ing kill is so poor.
I wonder if these people really feel that awesome if they manage to gank a miner (Oh yes, it was a very hard and intense fight) or just blob another group (It was a balanced fight, wasn't it?).
But this results ofcourse of the lack of PVP in general. Some people WANT to shoot stuff, but there is no incentive to go for smaller fights as loosing ships seems to be a real pain for even the pvp-dedicated players. So instead they pick up their buddies (which is good) and go to hunt everything, even solo, not dangerous ships (which is just poor).
I wonder, so many people seem to be having billions of ISK on their wallets, why are so few people not ready to throw in some pricey ships and just have a skilled fight? Are people really just about to have their Killcounter go up like in any FPS?

You thought I live in hi-sec?

I know, right?

Like those 100-man fleets in curse. They were just sitting off the test staging systems with drones assigned and that was about it for you if you undocked.

He is so right! I always look at these blob-ganks stuff and think ... where are you balls? PVP in this game seems to have a different meaning every other has in mind:
Instead of having a skilled competition who is the best pilot (SP and skill-wise) it's nearly only number-based factors that decide an outcome of a PVP-Fight. Also this attitude of people just going for every f*ing kill is so poor.
I wonder if these people really feel that awesome if they manage to gank a miner (Oh yes, it was a very hard and intense fight) or just blob another group (It was a balanced fight, wasn't it?).
But this results ofcourse of the lack of PVP in general. Some people WANT to shoot stuff, but there is no incentive to go for smaller fights as loosing ships seems to be a real pain for even the pvp-dedicated players. So instead they pick up their buddies (which is good) and go to hunt everything, even solo, not dangerous ships (which is just poor).
I wonder, so many people seem to be having billions of ISK on their wallets, why are so few people not ready to throw in some pricey ships and just have a skilled fight? Are people really just about to have their Killcounter go up like in any FPS?

Wasn't actually sure,
thus edited my post.

Doesn't matter where you live, because it doesn't change the facts.

He is so right! I always look at these blob-ganks stuff and think ... where are you balls? PVP in this game seems to have a different meaning every other has in mind:
Instead of having a skilled competition who is the best pilot (SP and skill-wise) it's nearly only number-based factors that decide an outcome of a PVP-Fight. Also this attitude of people just going for every f*ing kill is so poor.
I wonder if these people really feel that awesome if they manage to gank a miner (Oh yes, it was a very hard and intense fight) or just blob another group (It was a balanced fight, wasn't it?).
But this results ofcourse of the lack of PVP in general. Some people WANT to shoot stuff, but there is no incentive to go for smaller fights as loosing ships seems to be a real pain for even the pvp-dedicated players. So instead they pick up their buddies (which is good) and go to hunt everything, even solo, not dangerous ships (which is just poor).
I wonder, so many people seem to be having billions of ISK on their wallets, why are so few people not ready to throw in some pricey ships and just have a skilled fight? Are people really just about to have their Killcounter go up like in any FPS?

Which facts are those?

Read the edited post.

Single players can project a lot of force onto others.

Excuse my ignorance, but shouldn't instaundockwarps go past any bubbles on grid in front of the undock?
There's a certain distance bubbles can be dropped next to the station?

You mean on to selected others, right? Because judging from recent kills all it takes is fitting a point and both you and him would not engage.

Whose recent kills?
In case you're talking about me... I was deliberately not bringing myself into this,
although i have examples of my own that would show that single individuals can project a lot of force.

I picked Kane, because he's a pretty (pun intended xD) example.
Bringing myself into this would just scream bias.

Force projection usually is about selected others, unless one achieves world domination.

How does it matter who or how many the force is projected on?

As long as single people can make groups of people apologize publicly (as example)
force is projected successfully... no?

If people stop blowing up ships, the value of minerals will decrease and miners won't be able to make any profit so they will quit the game. By blowing up miners, you're actually doing them a favour.

Ask Harry Forever

Whose recent kills?
In case you're talking about me... I was deliberately not bringing myself into this,
although i have examples of my own that would show that single individuals can project a lot of force.

I picked Kane, because he's a pretty (pun intended xD) example.
Bringing myself into this would just scream bias.

Force projection usually is about selected others, unless one achieves world domination.

How does it matter who or how many the force is projected on?

As long as single people can make groups of people apologize publicly (as example)
force is projected successfully... no?

For OP:
1. Aion is that way ------>
2. I can haz your stuff?
3. Why we violence your boat? Because you were there, and we needed to express ourselves.
4. PvP is fun
5. HTFU

Your wrong.

Possibly one of the best, well thought out, and reasonable requests for a button in the esc menu that allows you to go back to WoW.

Full of win,

Can't call it unsuccessful, however not very far-reaching as getting someone to apologize bears little consequence for the rest of us. We have also wondered far off the topic about how eve combat pvp is held in too high regard for what it in practice.

1. No spaceships in it
2. You probably can't even fly most of my stuff
3. ?
4. Compared to what? Other things in eve or other games? Because this is kind of the point of the thread.
5. My shrink strongly advises me against taking any more space-viagra then I already do.

The reason the game is mostly refered to as a pvp centric game is because the game is all around interacting with others, and pvp tends to be the most impactful way to do it. That's all there is to it, really. PvP in this game is mostly about player knowledge and experience and very little about actual mechanical skill (basically, knowing when you have an advantage and when you don't). Everyone knows that, but hates to admit it.

If you think about it, it's not that much different from dota. Although that game is much more rich in terms of strategy/metagame and mechanical factor, the goal is stil the same. Acquire resources, and know when is the best time for using them, and prevent enemies from getting them. What really matters (and sets the pros appart) are your decisions and teamwork, not the ability to press 2 buttons and kill someone, because engaging is all about pondering your odds and making right decisions that put you on top. Same deal with pvp in eve, or any FFA kind of PVP. The execution part is pretty much trivial.

1. No, but does have "PvP by mutual consent, only" according to my last girlfriend.
2. Unless you're packing carriers and Titans, or Indy ships, I can fly almost everything you can.
3. It meant exactly what it said.
4. Compared to nothing. That wasn't a comparative statement. It was an opinion-based statement with no caveats.
5. That doesn't mean you should be as soft as the inside of a space twinkie, though.

(if you can't see my humor, I feel bad for you)

The pvp is pretty cool and all, but it isn't what EVE, or any sandbox ever, are supposed to be all about. These folk who treat the sandbox no differently than some online FPS remind me so much of some self-righteous vegans and their dogmatic hold that even though our species [human] are omnivore, everyone touching meat is just DOING IT WRONG!

Actually, they recently came out with some research that shows that soybeans when used as a primary source of protein, may be a significant carcinogen.

its not about shooting people, its about shooting goons...

Not to mention the plants you need for your vegan diet don't even grow in most climates. The resource drain to even enable you to survive a vegan diet with all the supplements you need I imagine are far more taxing on the environment then raising livestock. As for the ethical part... well nature is neither good nor evil, it's neutral.

The pvp is pretty cool and all, but it isn't what EVE, or any sandbox ever, are supposed to be all about. These folk who treat the sandbox no differently than some online FPS remind me so much of some self-righteous vegans and their dogmatic hold that even though our species [human] are omnivore, everyone touching meat is just DOING IT WRONG!

You are right and wrong at the same time. Unlike non sandbox games where crafting/industrial activities are just sidelines and most of the economy is driven by NPC's, Here in Eve you are always competing against other players and NPC have a much lower influence on the market. Miners have to compete against other miners to get the ore first, and then get the best price for those ores. If you manufacture you are always in price competition with other players to find the best market and to set the best price. In a broad definition it is PvP.
Is it Pure PvP combat? Debatable. Just like ganking miners. I just cant see ganking as being PvP combat. Its maybe a 6 mouse button click operation.
1. warp to belt
2. lock on to mining ship
3. overload racks
4. fire guns
5. activate Warp disruptor (optional)
6. watch mining ship go pop.
Lets face reality here, mission rats provide more of a challenge.
Having said that, I do not want to eliminate gankers. They add danger to what would otherwise be grinding out isk. Like other posters talk about the heart rate increase when they hit gate camp, the same goes for when any Cata or T1 cruiser enters a belt. there is an increase in heart rate wondering if that pilot is out ratting or if they are eyeballing my ship for a target. What I would like to see changed is for miner to have a reasonable option to occasionally turn the tables on the gankers. One that doesnt involve a second ship doing the mind numbing task of sitting cloaked 3k away from the mining ship waiting on the off chance a ganker does show up. Something that doesnt make ganking impossible or even all that dangerous, but just enough to make them worry every time they start to warp in on their target. Its all about Risk vs Reward isnt it? ( losing a cheap fit Cata or T1 cruiser to Concord is not a risk, it is the cost of doing business, since it happens every time.)

Your comparison to Vegans though is spot on

its not about shooting people, its about shooting goons...

Thing is though if miners did have a fighting chance of seeing off gankers, they wouldn't get ganked. This says a lot more about gankers than miners, who are eves real carebears as there is no risk to what they do.

TLDR: I don't want to die! Please don't shoot me!

Just looked at the topics on the forums and many threads have something in the lines of "eve is a pvp game, remove hi-sec, all miners must die, all carebears must be ganked, need force-undock module, etc" Basically if you aren't flying around trying to shoot at other people you are playing the game wrong and should just biomass yourself. I'm interested in where this is coming from. Obviously it mostly comes up for trolling purposes, but a great deal of people do subscribe to this notion and are unwilling to see past it and I would like to know why that is.

I have never said I don't like PvP. What I said was there is so much more to it then just the F1 act of PvP, without which you couldn't even have the PvP you speak of. And my point was that PvP is held in too high regard while everything else seems to draw ridicule as if it's the best measuring stick. Best example would be logi pilots. When you fly logi you do far more work yet it goes completely undocumented.

Everything in EVE is PvP. Even the forums are PvP.
Market? Totes PvP.
Mining? Still PvP (literally, when New Order rolls through).
Contracts? PvP, as well.
Complexing? Oh, SO totally PvP.

In my corp, Logi is rewarded. It takes a decently brass pair of stones to follow a bunch of HACs and AFs into hostile lowsec, knowing for sure you aren't getting on a killmail, but are still most likely going to die, in a serious pirate corp. I'm not as brave as some of my corpmates, so I fly the HACs.

Hm. Used to be like that (barring idiots who would fit guns and get in trouble and not be reimbursed). We recommended assigning drones to get on killmails.

Now we have participation links, which even record the shiptype, I think. Great stuff.

Probably.


Edit: TRON, DAMMIT !! -.-

Editedit:
What's the ******* point of quoting that huge OP,
when you have the first post following ?

Use your brain ! -.-

I do it just to **** you off ;)

Why do you bring up wow when we are talking about PvP. I've never played wow, mostly because it doesn't have any spaceships in it.

Just looked at the topics on the forums and many threads have something in the lines of "eve is a pvp game, remove hi-sec, all miners must die, all carebears must be ganked, need force-undock module, etc" Basically if you aren't flying around trying to shoot at other people you are playing the game wrong and should just biomass yourself. I'm interested in where this is coming from. Obviously it mostly comes up for trolling purposes, but a great deal of people do subscribe to this notion and are unwilling to see past it and I would like to know why that is.

Just looked at the topics on the forums and many threads have something in the lines of "eve is a pvp game, remove hi-sec, all miners must die, all carebears must be ganked, need force-undock module, etc" Basically if you aren't flying around trying to shoot at other people you are playing the game wrong and should just biomass yourself. I'm interested in where this is coming from. Obviously it mostly comes up for trolling purposes, but a great deal of people do subscribe to this notion and are unwilling to see past it and I would like to know why that is.

I play EvE because I like flying spaceships. I like how you can fit ships in EvE. I like the huge amount of ships and modules available and that there is actually a balance and everything is useful depending on the situation. I like that there is no end-game and no "best ship". I like the lack of safety, "no respawn" and that you can kill anyone and everything (supercap proliferation aside ofc). I like the way the economy works and that there is a history behind every piece of equipment. I like how EvE works, for the most part anyway.

Someone found a DED site and sold me the bookmark. I ran the site and got a mach bpc. I took all my bpcs to empire and paid a guy to move them to a factory station. I had to avoid many people that were out to get me soon as they saw me. Someone had to mine the ice to fuel my carrier. I then got on my alt and bought some minerals in Jita. Someone had to make the ships to mine the rocks to get those minerals and move them to jita and then list them where they eventually end up in my hands. I then paid another guy to move the minerals to my factory station because there were 7 wardecs on me. After my ships were ready they were sold. Perhaps one of them is in low-sec hunting other people, one might be in an incursion fleet as this post is written and I'm sure that at least 2 are busy shooting red crosses in lvl 4s. Eventually they will die, but hopefully not before bringing either wealth or glory to their owners, reduced to a wreck which might live on as a piece of a rig that I myself might buy one day. I think this is beautiful. Why people see this game as only the assisting in the destruction of things is beyond me.

And this PvP that many hold in such high regard isn't even that good. I like reading about all those 2k man blob fests, but I still know that it's a bunch of F1 monkeys with only a few people doing anything skillful. So small-gank... erm gang warfare. Well most of those fights are ganks. Most fights have the outcome decided before the fight begins and if it's not favorable all effort is made to avoid the fight. Most of the time PvP in EvE boils down to a bunch of running around and then a little bit of shooting. It's fun to do sometimes, but it doesn't exactly stand out as something great. The closest thing to a fair fight in eve are the alliance tournaments, but such an arranged arena style combat has no place in the sandbox and thus can be ingored.

PvP can ofcourse be fun. Dropping a bunch of bombers on someone is funny. Being on the receiving end however is not and I can totally relate to the unfortunate victim. For me blowing stuff up just for killmail's sake falls short of having a good time especially if you factor all the time and effort it takes to get it done. The pace and balance of it all is not enough for my liking to elevate it above the other things you can do in this game.

If you compare EvE to something like quake, dota or starcraft you will need to admit that an encounter in those other games will require way more skill then your average skirmish in EvE. And incidentally the more people you have the less skill you need. For pvp I like those games way more. I love getting the perfect rocket-plasma-rail combo in quake, I love a perfectly timed combo in a dota teamfight and I like they way I placed my units in starcraft as they destroyed the other guy's army without me having to worry about someone not aligning or flying out of rep range. With all these and more options why would I waste my time on EvE pvp when in the same time I could get way more good fights from any of those other options that I enjoy more?

I like spaceships and spreadsheets. I would like for someone to explain why I'm playing the game wrong. Oh and there isn't any butthurt in this post. Many will try to prove otherwise, but most of the losses on this toon are from flying drunk or bad cynos so nothing to complain about.

I'm really interested why one activity (pew pew) is so overwhelmingly favored that anyone not of the same mind set and favoring something different deserves ridicule. Anyone got an answer?

This post confirms the excellent link to the Dunning-Kruger effect earlier and the quote he is failing to understand should inform OP that not only is he too stupid to fly an internet spaceship but he is also too stupid to post on these forums.
Please don't do either again.

[quote=Enduros]
As far as I'm concerned, you're "doing it" just fine. So long as you recognise that your right to PvP my wallet is no greater than my right to PvP your ship, then we're all good. Carry on doing what suits you.

I was referring to how combat is in eve and how it compares to other games.

Not to mention the plants you need for your vegan diet don't even grow in most climates. The resource drain to even enable you to survive a vegan diet with all the supplements you need I imagine are far more taxing on the environment then raising livestock. As for the ethical part... well nature is neither good nor evil, it's neutral.

It requires more energy to produce a cow than it does grass.

While the OP is clearly a sodheaded ninny muggins ... you are wrong.

I take it that the OP hasn't seen any trailers or PR material for this game?

pagan princess.

This game has a high learning curve not a high skill requirement as related to twitch.

GǪbut as luck would have it, twitch is just one of many skills. As the steep and high learning curve shows, EVE requires a huge variety and a large amount of skill in many of the other areas.

So the OP's claim that Quake requires higher skill because it has more buttons (a dozen compared to EVE's hundred or so) is pretty nonsensical.

And as to his main question, I still take it that the OP hasn't seen any trailers or PR material for this game.


Because of subsidies, scale, and short-cuts in the handling process. Non-meats are still a lot less resource-intensive to produce and distribute.

PvP can ofcourse be fun. Dropping a bunch of bombers on someone is funny. Being on the receiving end however is not and I can totally relate to the unfortunate victim. For me blowing stuff up just for killmail's sake falls short of having a good time especially if you factor all the time and effort it takes to get it done. The pace and balance of it all is not enough for my liking to elevate it above the other things you can do in this game

And as to his main question, I still take it that the OP hasn't seen any trailers or PR material for this game.

GǪbut as luck would have it, twitch is just one of many skills. As the steep and high learning curve shows, EVE requires a huge variety and a large amount of skill in many of the other areas.

So the OP's claim that Quake requires higher skill because it has more buttons (a dozen compared to EVE's hundred or so) is pretty nonsensical.

And as to his main question, I still take it that the OP hasn't seen any trailers or PR material for this game.


Because of subsidies, scale, and short-cuts in the handling process. Non-meats are still a lot less resource-intensive to produce and distribute.

As luck would have it once again you would be wrong. This game is no where close to a twich based skill game. This game is won or loss 90% of the time before you even undock.

Well you can see it like that OP. Or you can see it like building a empire. The game is indeed based on PVP and thats the nr 1 reason you play eve online. If not the best way to say it there are better pve/pvc games out there. Sure you can pve/pvc but thats not what eve is made for. Its more a side job of eve online. However because eve have so many pve/pvc content that people think its like wow or other mmorpg but its not...... a common mistake in eve online.

You mean like the one about the inty flying 200km though gunfire to get a warp-in or the one where russians put 2 avatars in the system with nobody noticing? Also I think you missed the one where some carebare alliance put a bounty on vic. Or the one about stealing alliance assets? The last one is about exploration only and the rest of them are pretty much beauty shots of ships with DnB type of stuff in the background. Which ones am I suppose to watch again?

As luck would have it once again you would be wrong.

This game is won or loss 90% of the time before you even undock.

He's just pissed that any lol or dota player could do EvE combat part (F1, position: range, speed, trajectory, broadcast)

Yes?


I prefer the term High Priestess Designate, Heir to The Vestibule of The Temple of the Holy Amarr Suicide Cult of Haimeh

But whatever ignorant title floats yer boat

I prefer being The Heir to The Throne of The Kingdom of Fools.

You must not have read my post or read it wrong. It's exactly my point that there is so much more to eve PvP then the F1 blowing up stuff and getting killmails part. And yet people put exactly this on some pedestal, it doesn't deserve it.

For example the big fights with thousands of people. There is nothing impressive about a thousand monkeys pressing F1 while you have a guy doing the thinking for them and even the flying for them. However the sheer amount of organizational and logistical effort to get those people in a fleet is awe inspiring? All the in-game equipment and teamwork to pull something like that off... it's insane. And the F1 monkeys take the credit. This isn't right.

You must first understand that there are 2 schools of thought here.

1) Those who understand that the game is ultimately about fighting for space, typically with guns, missiles, drones or under-animated doomsday weapons.

2) Those who have no self-worth, no human value, no sense of glory or moral compass... Those who prey on others who have neither the desire or ABILITY to fight back... Those who lack skill in quite literally every way. Those who "just want to watch the world burn".

Can you guess which group champions the idiotic idea of 'non-consensual pvp'?

Setting aside for a moment that that's not the combat part of EVE, no. I'm just pointing out that twitch is an utterly minute blip on the overall skill radar. Any player with some minimal twitch skill can come into EVE and cover that part, but they'll still be murdered since they lack the skills needed for this particular game. After all, it covers a far larger slice of skill pie than what they're used to.

But I understand why you're pissed now: because you are as unfamiliar with those other parts as they are, and you're trying to raise your comparative self-esteem by dismissing those parts for some trumped-up reason that essentially boils down to their being better at it than you are, so it must be a scrub tactic.

You are missing the point I'm trying to make.

As for those silly little twitch games...

Also how very BoB of you to start assuming I'm not familiar with EvE.

Oh and since you brought this up my self-esteem is fine and you must be from the US because

Instead of resulting to some personal slander you should maybe make a reasonable argument.

Instead of resulting to some personal slander you should maybe make a reasonable argument.

You're missing the points you're making: that you assign fairly abusive labels based on nothing but your personal scorn for their preferred play style. You are also building the most massive and ridiculous straw man this forum has seen in ages (and that's saying something).

As for those silly little twitch games...

Maybe you should address the ones I made rather than resort to abuse of people who don't share your narrow-minded viewpoint and who actually see the bigger picture of this game?

Tippia is incapable of such a thing.

You clearly just label everything as a twitch game and don't understand the actual skill involved in playing starcraft or dota for example.

I see the big picture. I'm complaining about people who elevate the narrow F1 pressing to something that it's not.

General Discussion, more like skillless scrub discussion eh

so much for forums pvp

Dropping a bunch of bombers on someone is funny.

If you compare EvE to something like quake, dota or starcraft you will need to admit that...

I love getting the perfect rocket-plasma-rail combo in quake, I love a perfectly timed combo in a dota teamfight and I like they way I placed my units in starcraft as they destroyed the other guy's army without me having to worry about someone not aligning or flying out of rep range

Just looked at the topics on the forums and many threads have something in the lines of "eve is a pvp game, remove hi-sec, all miners must die, all carebears must be ganked, need force-undock module, etc" Basically if you aren't flying around trying to shoot at other people you are playing the game wrong and should just biomass yourself. I'm interested in where this is coming from. Obviously it mostly comes up for trolling purposes, but a great deal of people do subscribe to this notion and are unwilling to see past it and I would like to know why that is.

I'm not entirely convinced that you've pvp'd in eve. The adrenaline rush of a close-fought hour-long match in starcraft is absolutely dwarfed by a five minute intense fleet fight. The most perfect rocket-jump to railgun-in-the-face combo has nothing on blapping an interceptor that has you pinned down and escaping from under the teeth of a hostile fleet. Executing that combo in dota or lol feels great, but I'm sorry it just does not compare to being in a losing situation and having a friend de-cloak in a falcon to save the day.

The reason you are 'playing the game wrong' is not your unwillingness to pvp, but your attitude. I highly doubt you'd be making this post if you had an actual pvp history and not just two high-value losses over the last two months.

Might as well have named the thread Pandemic Legion Killed my Carrier, Remove PvP!

Or how about Why don't ec-300s jam an interceptor? Plz Hlp

I highly advise to not fessing up to account sharing, as that is a perma ban level offense in most circumstances.

Can't call it unsuccessful, however not very far-reaching as getting someone to apologize bears little consequence for the rest of us. We have also wondered far off the topic about how eve combat pvp is held in too high regard for what it in practice.

[quote=Gargep Farrow][quote=Iudicium Vastus]

Thing is though if miners did have a fighting chance of seeing off gankers, they wouldn't get ganked. This says a lot more about gankers than miners, who are eves real carebears as there is no risk to what they do.

Most people who are all in-your-face about how awesome PVP is and how lame you are for doing PVE are just not very intelligent.

Don't get me wrong, there are a lot of intelligent people that engage in PVP. But they are able to recognize why some people might be motivated to do mission running or mining.

When you find someone who thinks he's "cool" or you're "not cool" based on how you play an internet space ship video game, you can be sure that person is quite stupid.

That is possibly the finest and most accurate thing that has ever been said in these forums. I am neither ganker nor miner so not coming from a biased viewpoint, but that is just beautiful.

I consider myself to be rather intelligent. But I still cannot see why someone would enjoy mining unless they like boredom. Missions are tolerable, but I don't pay CCP for tolerable, I pay them to have fun.

It's a very simple fact. EVE has some of the worst PvE in the industry. Pick anything, even the recent failures like GW2, TOR or Defiance, they have more engaging and interesting PvE than EVE does. STO beats it flat out too, if you want to stay in the same genre.

Why you would buy a game, then single out the two least fun things about it and devote yourself exclusively to those things, is beyond me.

... being in a losing situation and having a friend de-cloak in a falcon Widow to save the day.