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Oh no CCP, we ARE discussing this.

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
SpaceDrake Storyteller	Posted - 2006.02.01 05:12:00 - [1] Edited by: SpaceDrake Storyteller on 01/02/2006 05:19:43 CCP, there are times when I've questioned your judgment. There are times I've wondered if you've thought an action through. I always thought, though, that deep down you were intelligent people. Well, as of today I'm not sure I think that anymore. You permanently banned Istvaan Shogaatsu from these forums for a silly little comment in the Sell Order forum. Because his primary reason for playing the game is the fiction he shares with us on the Library forum, he's leaving the game and probably won't contribute any further to E-ON. This is madness. This is banning an icon. This man is a huge pillar of the community. He's gone to places like the Penny Arcade forums for the sole purpose of pimping the game. He's been featured in major PC gaming mags. For thousands of EVE players, old and new, he is nothing less than the paragon of EVE players who represents the limitless potential this game represents. Permabanning him for something that small isn't just wrong, it's an insult to every intelligent player who's cared about EVE since before it's release. I was preparing something for E-ON, but I'm now reconsidering if I even wish to deal with CCP further. I still enjoy EVE, but forcing out Tom Czerniawski is like ripping a massive chunk of the soul out of the game - his stories and chronicles gave this game a depth and life that it would have lacked even with the CCP-written fiction. And yes, a fair bit of the published stuff on this site is his. And yes, the Hamish Saga is in fact the piece of fiction that finally convinced me to give EVE another try after being completely jaded by the beta. I am one of probably thousands paying CCP 15 United States Dollars a month because of this one man. This isn't even just an insult - this is CCP telling us they don't care about their community. So, ISD, Oveur, someone? You've banned someone who's practically a developer at this point and is as much a fan and lover of this game as any man alive. Explain yourselves. -------------- What good are actions if there's no one to tell the tale afterward? Player of the character "Andre Ricard".
Gonada	Posted - 2006.02.01 05:15:00 - [2] the suspence is killin me................ -I don't necessarily agree with everything I say.-
Nikolai Nuvolari	Posted - 2006.02.01 05:25:00 - [3] I agree with every single thing you're saying. -------------------------------------[04:04:04] Tom Thumb > for a nut case you rawk [04:21:15] Mebrithiel Ju'wien > Nik's bio 4tw btw [07:38:53] Graelyn > Nikolai for Dev 108!
Garreck	Posted - 2006.02.01 05:27:00 - [4] Edited by: Garreck on 01/02/2006 05:28:51 In before the lock? Can't have players be above the law. Discussing this in the forum is only going to result in lots of locked threads and many warnings that could lead to more perma-bans. edit Do as Nikolai suggests. My feelings about "the rules" aside, it's a shame to lose folks who shape Eve in such a profound way through their story-telling.
Nikolai Nuvolari	Posted - 2006.02.01 05:27:00 - [5] On the other hand, this is still against the rules of these forums. I suggest that if you want to discuss this with other players, take it to other forums. I also think you should send this message DIRECTLY to CCP. -------------------------------------[04:04:04] Tom Thumb > for a nut case you rawk [04:21:15] Mebrithiel Ju'wien > Nik's bio 4tw btw [07:38:53] Graelyn > Nikolai for Dev 108!
Poopwithme	Posted - 2006.02.01 05:28:00 - [6] Originally by: SpaceDrake Storyteller Edited by: SpaceDrake Storyteller on 01/02/2006 05:19:43 CCP, there are times when I've questioned your judgment. There are times I've wondered if you've thought an action through. I always thought, though, that deep down you were intelligent people. Well, as of today I'm not sure I think that anymore. You permanently banned Istvaan Shogaatsu from these forums for a silly little comment in the Sell Order forum. Because his primary reason for playing the game is the fiction he shares with us on the Library forum, he's leaving the game and probably won't contribute any further to E-ON. This is madness. This is banning an icon. This man is a huge pillar of the community. He's gone to places like the Penny Arcade forums for the sole purpose of pimping the game. He's been featured in major PC gaming mags. For thousands of EVE players, old and new, he is nothing less than the paragon of EVE players who represents the limitless potential this game represents. Permabanning him for something that small isn't just wrong, it's an insult to every intelligent player who's cared about EVE since before it's release. I was preparing something for E-ON, but I'm now reconsidering if I even wish to deal with CCP further. I still enjoy EVE, but forcing out Tom Czerniawski is like ripping a massive chunk of the soul out of the game - his stories and chronicles gave this game a depth and life that it would have lacked even with the CCP-written fiction. And yes, a fair bit of the published stuff on this site is his. And yes, the Hamish Saga is in fact the piece of fiction that finally convinced me to give EVE another try after being completely jaded by the beta. I am one of probably thousands paying CCP 15 United States Dollars a month because of this one man. This isn't even just an insult - this is CCP telling us they don't care about their community. So, ISD, Oveur, someone? You've banned someone who's practically a developer at this point and is as much a fan and lover of this game as any man alive. Explain yourselves. Are you his alt? Because Ive never seen somebody so hung up about another player which is supposedly worshipped amongst the community for being the almighty savior of eve or some crap. I agree, maybe banning him was a little too harsh of a decesion and should be thought through more clearly, but there is a little thing called being overexcessive. Im sure istvaan can handle his own problems and matters without the help of his fan club. Nothing against istvaan personal or anyone in this game for that matter, but Im getting tired of all the player worshipping around here.
SpaceDrake Storyteller	Posted - 2006.02.01 05:31:00 - [7] Originally by: Nikolai Nuvolari I also think you should send this message DIRECTLY to CCP. I've got the message saved for posterity. Believe me, if it gets deleted, I will send it straight to CCP. -------------- What good are actions if there's no one to tell the tale afterward? Player of the character "Andre Ricard".
mechtech	Posted - 2006.02.01 05:31:00 - [8] Overly dramatic, but you have a good point. Lets get him back in eve ccp.
Ruyter	Posted - 2006.02.01 05:31:00 - [9] Edited by: Ruyter on 01/02/2006 05:31:41 This guy Istvaan Shogaatsu is the one who pulled me into EvE. I've read that article in a magazine, this was so impressive. Well my goal in this game was actually to meet him, and i bet more people are lured into EvE due to the stories they hearded about him. so CCP please allthou i don't know the guy, keep him. btw there is a fan club?? sweet
Gierling	Posted - 2006.02.01 05:32:00 - [10] Carebears won't kill Eve, neither will Pirates. CCP will kill Eve. The policies regarding moderation here are downright hostile to the playerbase, and stand in the way of achiving real community. Feh on that, and Feh on ISD. snip That's not very appropriate. - Teblin

Trepkos	Posted - 2006.02.01 05:35:00 - [11] Originally by: Ruyter Edited by: Ruyter on 01/02/2006 05:31:41 This guy Istvaan Shogaatsu is the one who pulled me into EvE. I've read that article in a magazine, this was so impressive. Well my goal in this game was actually to meet him, and i bet more people are lured into EvE due to the stories they hearded about him. so CCP please allthou i don't know the guy, keep him. btw there is a fan club?? sweet Istvaan is a self-proclaimed genuis.... I wish I would have met him too, but hes too good for us common inferior players. -------- Recruitment
RangerXT	Posted - 2006.02.01 05:35:00 - [12] signed 2x over. Until CCP cowards out and deletes this thread anyway.....now this is @#$#@$#$ nuts
Siigari Kitawa	Posted - 2006.02.01 05:37:00 - [13] .... wow. What happened? _________
Gothikia	Posted - 2006.02.01 05:38:00 - [14] Agreed, ISD have gone way too far this time... Kieron, answers please
Mitchman	Posted - 2006.02.01 05:40:00 - [15] Well, as EVE is more of a player-driven game than any other MMO, CCP should be very careful and maybe review their mod policy, as they did with their naming policy after the 4S/SAS disaster. With the current policy, I will no doubt get banned for making this post at all
Gierling	Posted - 2006.02.01 05:40:00 - [16] DOn't get me wrong, I think IStvaan is a ***, and a self absorbed pompous Ass. However it is exactly those types of personalities that make the community of any game interesting. You have your heroes and your antiheroes, your villians and your rogues, etc. Hell Daakkon was banned for silly stuff too, and that guy was a real character that made this place interesting. snip* That's not very appropriate. - Teblin
Elenath	Posted - 2006.02.01 05:42:00 - [17] Players get banned from the forums all the time. Big deal. The fact that he is some self-proclaimed hotshot does not grant him special forum privileges.
BlackHole Bob	Posted - 2006.02.01 05:42:00 - [18] Edited by: BlackHole Bob on 01/02/2006 05:43:02 Originally by: Gothikia Agreed, ISD have gone way too far this time... Kieron, answers please Irecently sent a personal e-mail to kieron concerning a very similiar issue... you know what the very saddest part of all this is... the person who actually banned him was most likely a "volunteer" support personnel truly ISD and the Forum mods could use some serious public relations schooling... kieron...its was all good with ISD and all when 2000 - 4000 players were here...but know its time for the ISD volunteer system to go by by...IMHO this is not the first time this ugly animal has reared its head Blackhole Bob www.evegathering.com Las Vegas EvE Gathering 2006 March 15th and 16th
Malken	Posted - 2006.02.01 05:48:00 - [19] maybe the forums should only have permabans for really really bad things like racism and deaththreat posts and such. maybe start using a long convalescent period of 6months of no posting for those who step over the last hurdle without using racism and deaththreats and such.
Garreck	Posted - 2006.02.01 05:49:00 - [20] Originally by: Elenath Players get banned from the forums all the time. Big deal. The fact that he is some self-proclaimed hotshot does not grant him special forum privileges. Well, the public outcry in this case is because the player in question is not just "some self-proclaime hotshot."

Nikolai Nuvolari	Posted - 2006.02.01 05:51:00 - [21] Originally by: Malken maybe the forums should only have permabans for really really bad things like racism and deaththreat posts and such. Agreed. A large number of minor offenses shouldn't add up to a permaban, not for Istvaan and not for anybody else. -------------------------------------[04:04:04] Tom Thumb > for a nut case you rawk [04:21:15] Mebrithiel Ju'wien > Nik's bio 4tw btw [07:38:53] Graelyn > Nikolai for Dev 108!
Foulis	Posted - 2006.02.01 05:58:00 - [22] Originally by: Gierling Carebears won't kill Eve, neither will Pirates. CCP will kill Eve. The policies regarding moderation here are downright hostile to the playerbase, and stand in the way of achiving real community. Feh on that, and Feh on ISD. Or we could go play WOW, and get banned for trying to start a guild for homosexuals and bisexuals, I think CCP isn't really that over the top about banning.
j0sephine	Posted - 2006.02.01 05:58:00 - [23] Uhh... if it's true then it's really unfortunate :/ I don't think CCP can revert such decision -- and certainly not if players start screaming at them to do it... because it'd set a precedent that everyone and their monkey ever banned from the forum could try to use for even more drama. But i wish CCP revised their forum banning policy, because it's resulted in permanently 'killing' quite a few prominent voices, and it'll only continue as time goes. People who post do pick up warnings for all sorts of things, even as small as wrong size of signature... and eventually meet the hard-set limit after they are removed for good (or bad, really) It'd be much more sensible IMO if the issued warnings expired after certain time. Be it month, 6 months, or a year even... but they should be eventually deduced from the total warning count. This way people wouldn't be eternal victims of silly mistakes made years ago as it is now, which is plain dumb in my eyes... and does more harm to state of community in the long run. ¼¼;
Meridius	Posted - 2006.02.01 06:00:00 - [24] I fully support the OP. The decision to ban him on such a harmless post was astonishingly stupid. Do we need moderators for the moderators? Heh. I want to say more but this post will get moderated so no point tbh. \o ________________________________________________________
0Virtu0	Posted - 2006.02.01 06:00:00 - [25] Originally by: Mitchman Well, as EVE is more of a player-driven game than any other MMO, CCP should be very careful and maybe review their mod policy, as they did with their naming policy after the 4S/SAS disaster. With the current policy, I will no doubt get banned for making this post at all
SpaceDrake Storyteller	Posted - 2006.02.01 06:01:00 - [26] I certainly didn't mean for this to be a fanboy post, but Istvaan is certainly not just "another hotshot". Istvaan, AKA HellGremlin, has been here since near the beginning. He was a major part of this community back when EVE was screenshots, a few music clips, two videos, some backstory and some promises. He helped foster the community with his imagination and stories, and helped form a large group of EVE enthusiasts in preperation for the game's release - Endless Corporation (now defunct, alack.) CCP acknowledged his efforts on the front page back then, and he even wrote a few of the Chronicles pre-beta (such as the Titans.) Post-release, his stories have continued to inspire thousands, his achievements have brought people into the game, and he has spent time elsewhere specifically helping people out in enjoying the game. Ask the Penny Arcade regulars about the time he invited them to a PoS gank party. He is also now a crucial contributor to E-ON, being it's primary fiction writer. Sure, no man is above the law. But to treat someone who has given his heart and soul to this game as much as any CCP dev has like this... it's insulting to the rest of us who were here when all we had were promises, and it's injust to everyone else. -------------- What good are actions if there's no one to tell the tale afterward? Player of the character "Andre Ricard".
j0sephine	Posted - 2006.02.01 06:03:00 - [27] Edited by: j0sephine on 01/02/2006 06:04:20 "The fact that he is some self-proclaimed hotshot (..)" EVE Leaders and Legends not just self-proclaimed by long shot (somewhat accurate totals in Jasmine's post near the end of thread)
Gierling	Posted - 2006.02.01 06:03:00 - [28] If I recall correctly CCP has admitted they were wrong and reversed decisions before (The 4s fiasco). Ain't no reason to change forum policies and give a whole bunch of people a second chance. snip That's not very appropriate. - Teblin
Baldour Ngarr	Posted - 2006.02.01 06:05:00 - [29] Well, you don't get a permanent ban for your first offence. So if he's been breaking the rules long enough and consistently enough to earn this, then good riddance. ________________________________________________ "I tried strip mining, but I lost, and it's cold flying around in space naked."
Herko Kerghans	Posted - 2006.02.01 06:06:00 - [30] Originally by: Garreck Originally by: Elenath Players get banned from the forums all the time. Big deal. The fact that he is some self-proclaimed hotshot does not grant him special forum privileges. Well, the public outcry in this case is because the player in question is not just "some self-proclaime hotshot." Aye. Perhaps the most famous Out Of Game player of the whole server. The kind of guy that appears on magazines. The author of quite a few of the Chrons of the website. The one behind, either as author or partially as editor, of the Chrons that appear on E-ON. One of the greatest leaders of EVE, as you will note the playerbase has voted if you ever bother checking The Library forum. Where he has the best, longest, most complex, most loved ongoing fiction published there, The Hamish Saga. Nobody should be above the law, but as Malken says above, no ban should be permanent except perhaps for really serious sexual/political/religious/racial insults, of which Istvaan comited none (OOC at least!) Permabans hurt the community too much. They are not a solution, they are a problem in itself; they should wear off after a time. Barriers - an EVE novel



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