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LiverpoolFC	Posted - 2003.08.28 22:21:00 - [1] If I have read the latest chat log correctly it would appear the CCP are about the nerf the Ore Thieves at last. Anyone not in a corp/gang taking loot from a can will become a valid kill for a short period of time. Not sure when this new feature will be implemented though. There are one or two people in this game that are going to have to find a new career me thinks. Saldy those of us that are able to warp to bookmarks on top or or very near gates will soon have that ability removed. Win a few lose a few I guess.
Znaei	Posted - 2003.08.28 22:33:00 - [2] We cant have everything, cant have nothing. must meet in the middle. Devs are just still struggling to find the balance clagnuts> im drunk just come back from pirates night in spain , wtf i thought it was some eve guys getting together for a drink , turned out to be a feken real pirates show , doh
WhiteDwarf	Posted - 2003.08.28 22:55:00 - [3] I view the gate bookmarks as a nececity for my 2 or 3 hrs of gameplay per day. It will hurt my chances of having valuable gameplay time in those 2-3 hrs if I spend 75% of it staring at gates which are 35k away when I come out of warp. The last thing this game needs is more travel timesinks. This is a huge mistake on CCP's part. The only ones who will benefit from this are the lazy gate campers (5% of the playerbase?) for everyone else it means a **tier gaming experience, bad move. Nothing will make me consider leaving this game quicker than more travel timesinks. I can handle gate campers, I can handle the nerfs to MWD, and tolerate quite a bit. Lag and timesinks However I cannot tolerate. Hell, as a miner, if I had a chioce between the ore theif issue and BM's, I would let the ore theives continue, and keep my bookmarks. Why not make a module for pirates, that kills the warpfield of a ship and stops it 35k from the gate to give them a chance to "gate camp", instead of making me travel 35k up to the gate EVERY ***** TIME! At least this way it will only happen at gates where pirates are camped. BAD MOVE! "Trust No One"
EzTarget	Posted - 2003.08.28 23:26:00 - [4] The way I understnd these jump gates to work would cause a small anti-warp buble in space anyway, so what the dev's are doing is it create this bubble. I've also heard rumers of war disrupters, devices that will remove people in warp from warp!!! I actually agree with the sugestions that the dev's have for these 2 issues. I also am not happy having to stare at a jump gate that I came out of warp from >30km away. The only other program with the jump gates are that you do not come oout of war at a jump gate, like the backgounds say your suppost to, so this should be added as well.....
Severe McCald	Posted - 2003.08.29 00:18:00 - [5] When I started playing this game I thought all the "timesinks" were deliberately put in, so as to keep you playing for longer to get anything done. Then I found shortcuts, some of them built into the game deliberately (like coming out right on top of stations you visit regularly) and decided that the timesinks were there to allow the server to disguise lag and/or cope with the player base. This nerf suggests to me that the latter is true. Which means CCP really cannot cope with even the existing players, never mind 20,000. Oh well, it was a good idea. Maybe it will work with the next generation of computers. SM And Moses was content to dwell with the man:and he gave Moses Zipporah his daughter. And she bare him a son, and he called his name Gershom:for he said, I have been a stranger in a strange land.
ImEasy	Posted - 2003.08.29 00:57:00 - [6] I played on the chaos server tonite. Wanted to see how long my regular 76 jumps to my favourite hunting grounds would take without my bookmarks. Answer= 3hrs 7mins with my bookmarks = 63mins. I dont use MWD because i dont like them. But i guess ill have to start now. To Tomb: Is this latest nerf a result of all the pirates whining about bookmarked players avoiding their gatecamping? poor poor pirates. First they moan that the carebears moaned about griefing..claiming all were stupid and they should play smarter. The players then play smarter, and they start whinging again. pirates = 5% or less of the player base. carebears= 75% the rest of us =20% maybe by leaving the bookmarks in, you will force the pirates to start moving around more and taking more a role instead of gatecamping? <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Im Easy....work it out for yourself >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Derith	Posted - 2003.08.29 08:16:00 - [7] If you don't want your ore stolen then don't jetison.eve-online wasen't ment for exstream AFK mining....frankly i see no reason to get aggod for stealing.eve is a capitalistic game.the strongest,most lowdown and most exstream players only make it.all this goody goody crap belongs in E&B.hell its a common fact bling bling!!
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2003.08.29 08:25:00 - [8] Hmmm, I too have some reservations about this bookmark nerf but only because the volume of people now likely to get caught in blockades will make the forums are really nasty place for a while......... LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Discorporation	Posted - 2003.08.29 08:29:00 - [9] People trying to run blockades should try to do so when they are fitted to. Industrials fitted with cargo expanders and afterburners, alone, shouldn't make it, the same indies with MWD's should (and can). There are so many ways to avoid blockades, it's not funny. Even if you decide to run one, get the gear to do it. [Heterocephalus glaber]
Lynn	Posted - 2003.08.29 08:57:00 - [10] i think the gate campers are not the reason for removing the insta jump bookmarks. think about the following scenario. you and your mates try to claim a piece of the space to protect your corp's space station. "guests" with insta jump bookmarks could come and go in "your" system and you couldn't do anything against... not quite a nice scenario. And to all miners out there: an indy is a big heavy ship which needs some time to travel. accept this like i accept it. insta jump bookmarks are crap just my 2 cents
Ruulex DeMors	Posted - 2003.08.29 09:21:00 - [11] Edited by: Ruulex DeMors on 29/08/2003 09:22:20 Sorry this is how I see this new "feature" that they decide to add in almost 4 months of being live. This gives gates Campers a 33500 km3 Sphere (4/3pi20km^3) where they KNOW no one can enter. Sorry I don't care if it adds travel time, or you can still run a blockade with dual MWD's or whatever. This knocks out 33500 cubic kilometers that I can't access to give me a tactical advantage over the Gate Campers. Win-win if you are a pirate that camps a gate with this "feature". ------------------------------------- Interm-CEO for EVE Marshals http://www.EVEMarshals.com
AnjinSan	Posted - 2003.08.29 09:38:00 - [12] Yes agree. Pleas donÆt take away the ability to warp closer to gates. I donÆt se it at all as a exploit, more like a move from a really serious Eve player.
Smithers	Posted - 2003.08.29 10:01:00 - [13] Dunno why but I can envisage the entire server poplulation sitting at gates wondering where all the other players are. Simple answer, they're sitting at other gates wondering where you are. Lets face facts, PvP won't work in this game because it isn't just a PvP game. Some people came into this game becuase of the PvE elements (in my opion better than any othre space based MMORPG out there)and others came here becuase they wanted to succeed at creating a business, be it mining, manufacturing or trading. If people want to camp gates then give them something else to shoot at besides other players. What about having actual escorted NPC convoys leave the systems their in and travel through the gates too. Set-up a few long distance routes through 0.0 space. Use Agents to find out where a convoy is and guess where it will be in a little while and go an intercept it. Does it not get a little boring for the gate campers to sit there hour after hour shooting at, perhaps podding and then trash talking whoever was unlucky enough to be killed by them? Its not like you can even refer to them as pirates if they don't demand money for safe passage and then provide it. Sit at gate wait ten secs lock webify shoot pod loot repeat OR sit at gate wait ten secs lock webify watch as target still has enough speed to make it to the gate repeat Seems to be quite a pathetic existence really. But, for the PvP fans, there's nothing else provided for them. Perhaps they could use a ittle imagination to get together with other PvP fans and perhaps arrange a battle in a specific place at a specific time. /sigh I'll keep on playing even though i think that they'll never get it right. The flames, trash talk and merry banter on these boards and ingame is worth it for me.
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2003.08.29 10:03:00 - [14] Edited by: Joshua Calvert on 29/08/2003 10:04:41 Quote: People trying to run blockades should try to do so when they are fitted to. Industrials fitted with cargo expanders and afterburners, alone, shouldn't make it, the same indies with MWD's should (and can). There are so many ways to avoid blockades, it's not funny. Even if you decide to run one, get the gear to do it. I said the same thing in another thread about the CSM and got flamed I don't really mind that people use bookmarks for travelling, but using bookmarks to run blockades? That's like turning up to a football match and going home at half-time - you missed all the excitement. It's indicative of the "afk" mindset of a lot of the players. Lazy, unskilled, isk-hungry players. It's sad to see. LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
WhiteDwarf	Posted - 2003.08.29 10:04:00 - [15] "And to all miners out there: an indy is a big heavy ship which needs some time to travel. accept this like i accept it. insta jump bookmarks are crap" You obviously do not do much deep space mining or hauling. I will not accept it like it is, and neither will a lot of other miners/haulers and traders. There are other games out there that will be much more exciting to play, that don't include spending 75% of yout gametime staring at a gate from 35k away. Total bull**. CCP will lose a lot of faithfull customers if they do this. This is the straw that will break the cammels back, for sure. Like I said, if CCP wants pirates to camp gates, give them a warp disrupter. When they've figure out the shipping lanes of certain traders and haulers, they can use these devices when people enter local and stop them short of the gate. Make these *** work a little bit for thier kills, don't penallize every hauler/trader at every *** gate in the entire *** galaxy just because a few lazy assed pirates are ***in they can't have indy's with 10 mill worth of megacyte fall in their lap whan all they are doing is sitting at a gate. What an absurd idea! The DEV's really need to catch a clue one of these days... "Trust No One"
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2003.08.29 10:08:00 - [16] Ever thought that removing super highways and removing bookmarks to gates will acheive the same affect? Remove the highways, remove the bookmarks. LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
WhiteDwarf	Posted - 2003.08.29 10:17:00 - [17] "Remove the highways, remove the bookmarks" And say goodby to a lot of part time players. What an assinine point of view... Problems like this should be solved through skills and modules, not nerfing. If pirates are not properly setup to run a blockade, they lose out. Don't ******* penalize EVEYONE else. "Trust No One"
Ganja	Posted - 2003.08.29 10:25:00 - [18] mmm.. ImEasy - I'm dissapointed in you. You've gone completely carebear. You too were in "Going Limp Inc." in which we would pirate TTi, there in turn, making you a pirate. How hypocritical of you..
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2003.08.29 10:31:00 - [19] Quote: "Remove the highways, remove the bookmarks" And say goodby to a lot of part time players. What an assinine point of view... Problems like this should be solved through skills and modules, not nerfing. If pirates are not properly setup to run a blockade, they lose out. Don't ***** penalize EVEYONE else. If bookmarks stay IN, then let people warp to from scanner. Same principal, just in reverse. LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!**
MyZteRio	Posted - 2003.08.29 10:36:00 - [20] If bookmarks are removed and u will be fishfood at every gate why play? U die so fast and equipping MWD also means when u flew past this great blockade of people doing nothing but hang around shoot to kill without any real penalty as it is, u still left with your MWD nerf once u go fight pirates. Anyway there still is no real painfull penalty for pirates sitting at gates, players don't tend to fight them. Secure space why go there, they can do whatever they like now and after a nerf of the BM's i for one can't see why i ever want to go in 0.0. If i had whole days of time i wouldn't mind, my money and ores would compensate for a lost ship. As it is now its as with every other game, if u do not play enough u cannot be a real part of the game at all. Most people work all day and have a few hours in the evening (and that is not every evening). As i see it now i mine for a week or two i get my ship, i fly into a blockade and lose it in 25 secs after flying so many jumpgates which also costs me alot of time. Please know that the travel time even on short trips is what is killing the fun after u play it for a little while. The warp effect is great, it would be greater if i didn't see it so much/long and then after it still have to fly so long until i reach the gate, or anything else. Better shrink the universe and increase solarsystem size, more things close less traveltime, more to do, more interactions. Enough sad talk, BM jumps are offcourse never meant to be, but getting killed in 25 secs in a good equipped ship u worked for so long also wasn't. Find a solution, anything that makes it better for both, don't just nerf stuff maybe invent something new. Just my personal feelings towards a potentially great game, its still growing. The only question is for the better or the worse. The future will tell,... ------------------------------------------------------------- A virtual Life takes 1/2 a lifetime, if it's worth living.
illuminati	Posted - 2003.08.29 10:58:00 - [21] The BM nerf is a timesink, it will probably **** me off to the point of canceling. Cant fight at gates, 10 sec invulnerability prevents it if traveler is awake. Cant block stations, people warp away. Cant hunt people well enough cause you cant warp to them in system. Want to increase excitement, work the other end, not the timesink end. Who cares about helping pirates or not? If you warp to gate, 4 people there, you have forever time left to warp out still. The BM nerf is a timesink.
Cao Cao	Posted - 2003.08.29 11:05:00 - [22] Cry more noobs. Bookmarking the gates to get around pirate blockades has always been an exploit of game mechanics. get over it. However, if they could devise a system by which you only come out of warp at 40km or so from blockaded stargates, but could warp right up to all others, I am 100% all for it.
EagleFour	Posted - 2003.08.29 11:25:00 - [23] You pirates are all lazy whiners. I think you all are the real carebares here. Need some cheese? JOBS - Got Moin?
WhiteDwarf	Posted - 2003.08.29 11:25:00 - [24] "Bookmarking the gates to get around pirate blockades has always been an exploit of game mechanics. get over it." And sitting at gates for hours on end to kill those noobs has always been lame, you get over that. "Trust No One"
Lynn	Posted - 2003.08.29 11:27:00 - [25] Quote: Bookmarking the gates to get around pirate blockades has always been an exploit of game mechanics. get over it. Exactly. The problem with this long time blockades is not that they exist. The problem is that no one wants to do anything against it. I really don't understand why there are only pirates and no hunters. And to White Dwarf: I do a lot of mining and hauling. I even do it on two accounts, one miner and one hauler. But i nerver used this lame bookmarks because they are an exploit
WhiteDwarf	Posted - 2003.08.29 11:32:00 - [26] "And to White Dwarf: I do a lot of mining and hauling. I even do it on two accounts, one miner and one hauler. But i nerver used this lame bookmarks because they are an exploit" Then I guess you view staring at our monitor for an extra 3 hours to get one load of Bis to the nearest station as fun, I do not. I simply do not have the time for that, nor think it's fun. I'll go play something else if they timesink this game to hell. "Trust No One"
Lynn	Posted - 2003.08.29 11:42:00 - [27] Edited by: Lynn on 29/08/2003 11:43:14 Quote: "And to White Dwarf: I do a lot of mining and hauling. I even do it on two accounts, one miner and one hauler. But i nerver used this lame bookmarks because they are an exploit" Then I guess you view staring at our monitor for an extra 3 hours to get one load of Bis to the nearest station as fun, I do not. I simply do not have the time for that, nor think it's fun. I'll go play something else if they timesink this game to hell. maybe you should file a petition that you want "Fill my cargo with bistot button". And then you train a monkey to press this button while you are at work. Play the game and do not whine that mining could be a time consuming and risky process.
illuminati	Posted - 2003.08.29 11:51:00 - [28] "The problem with this long time blockades is not that they exist. The problem is that no one wants to do anything against it. I really don't understand why there are only pirates and no hunters." My oh my, where do I start Lynn? Did you ever try chasing pirates? How did it go? Waste of time because they got away, yes? If you're lucky, smart and have a good team you get to destroy a pirate ship about 40% max of the times you chase them with lots of time and isk lost for everyone involved in hunting. The problem is the game PvP mechanics need to be changed to what we have been suggesting on these boards for weeks, INSTEAD of timesinking the whole EvE community. Wow, a reply without insults, but it was close.
WhiteDwarf	Posted - 2003.08.29 11:52:00 - [29] "Play the game and do not whine that mining could be a time consuming and risky process" I don't need that button, I alone can mine enough Bis by myself in 3 hours, to fill up 20 Giant secure cans. Why should it take me only 3 hours to accumulate that ore, but take 390020 = 78000 / 16m3 =4875 bis / 300 bis per indy = 16.25 5 hours travel time without bookmarks per round trip to haul one load of bis = 81.25 hours / average 3 hours gameplay per day = 27 days to haul... Yeah, that makes a lot of ******* sense. All that time added in because pirates whine about gate BM's, and they are not at 99.99% of the gates I travel during this haul. I know 0.0 is supposed to be dangerous, fine, but don't be idiotic about the timesink problem. "Trust No One"
drunkenmaster	Posted - 2003.08.29 11:56:00 - [30] Quote: Then I guess you view staring at our monitor for an extra 3 hours to get one load of Bis to the nearest station as fun, I do not. Your exaggerations are getting bigger and bigger, as I go through this thread. You spend 75% of your time 35km from gates? I guess you haven't travelled 'normally' for some time. Maybe you're just not the right person to mine/haul bistot as originally intended. As for all the other people complaining about this, you sound like there's a pirate corp at every gate in non-empire space. Stop being so melodramatic, and maybe people will view your points with the consideration some of them deserve. also, lol @ bistot-monkey. .

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