I have nothing to say that's even remotely close to trolling this,
but i have noticed that ned nederlander has sex with celebrities.


Edit: Unless this is just a quote, then it's obviously
the person the quote is about.

Would you say they have a plethora of mini-games?

i vote a similar minigame be implemented for mining.

I have some questions regarding the mini-game used in the Relic/Data sites under the new exploration mechanics released in Odyssey. I am rather curious to see if there is a on-going effort to provide more of these games, or if this was a "try once and forget" idea:

• Question 1: Who (which group) developed the mini-game we currently have for Relic and Data sites?


• Question 2: How many different types of games were concieved and partially developed before deciding on the current one?


• Question 3: Are there plans to developing the previously concieved games for use in some of Eve Online's current (or future) activities. For example, I see an opportunity for the mini-game when setting up the Siphon on a POS.

Thank you to whoever answers this.

Anyhow...

Seems you're not important enough to get a dev response,
so the signature probably is a lie.

1. The whole thing came onto Team Prototyping Rocks when we were just three developers with a very limited amount of time before the Odyssey release. We were basically tasked by CCP Seagull to create new content in the exploration sites. I concepted and developed the Hacking minigame. CCP Prime (who has since left to pastures new) took the scattering mechanic we had in some mining prototypes and bought it into EVE. Later we were joined by CCP Soundwave, CCP Affinity, CCP Arrow and CCP Optimal.

2. I worked collaboratively with a few other people on the concepting (CCP RedDawn, CCP Tallest, CCP SoniClover) the general ideas we had were similar and we created most of the prototypes as card games.

3. There is definitely desire to move the Hacking, sans the Scattering mechanic into new places and to deepen the gameplay involved in Hacking. I and other people have a whole bunch of stuff we want to implement further but it's a case of us not being the people who decide project priorities. As part of that in this release I've made it possible for content creators to make most in game entities hackable.

We also have a bunch of ideas on how to make mining more interactive for people that want it to be more interesting and I spoke about them at the last Fanfest:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qmUIDlMmQE

Now that the guy got his dev response you look even more idiot than you usually do. Congrats because that is a mark hard to beat.

The loot scattering mechanic maybe wasn't that bad as a concept, but its replayable value is zill and I don't think that nobody is going to miss seeing it elsewhere.

Orakkus, what is a plethora?

1. The whole thing came onto Team Prototyping Rocks when we were just three developers with a very limited amount of time before the Odyssey release. We were basically tasked by CCP Seagull to create new content in the exploration sites. I concepted and developed the Hacking minigame. CCP Prime (who has since left to pastures new) took the scattering mechanic we had in some mining prototypes and bought it into EVE. Later we were joined by CCP Soundwave, CCP Affinity, CCP Arrow and CCP Optimal.

2. I worked collaboratively with a few other people on the concepting (CCP RedDawn, CCP Tallest, CCP SoniClover) the general ideas we had were similar and we created most of the prototypes as card games.

3. There is definitely desire to move the Hacking, sans the Scattering mechanic into new places and to deepen the gameplay involved in Hacking. I and other people have a whole bunch of stuff we want to implement further but it's a case of us not being the people who decide project priorities. As part of that in this release I've made it possible for content creators to make most in game entities hackable.

We also have a bunch of ideas on how to make mining more interactive for people that want it to be more interesting and I spoke about them at the last Fanfest:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qmUIDlMmQE

Why, El Shederov?

Well, you told me they have a plethora. And I just would like to know if you know what a plethora is. I would not like to think that a person would tell someone they have a plethora, and find out that that person has no idea what it means to have a plethora.

IQuestion 2: How many different types of games were concieved and partially developed before deciding on the current one? Thank you to whoever answers this.

1. The whole thing came onto Team Prototyping Rocks when we were just three developers with a very limited amount of time before the Odyssey release. We were basically tasked by CCP Seagull to create new content in the exploration sites. I concepted and developed the Hacking minigame. CCP Prime (who has since left to pastures new) took the scattering mechanic we had in some mining prototypes and bought it into EVE. Later we were joined by CCP Soundwave, CCP Affinity, CCP Arrow and CCP Optimal.

2. I worked collaboratively with a few other people on the concepting (CCP RedDawn, CCP Tallest, CCP SoniClover) the general ideas we had were similar and we created most of the prototypes as card games.

3. There is definitely desire to move the Hacking, sans the Scattering mechanic into new places and to deepen the gameplay involved in Hacking. I and other people have a whole bunch of stuff we want to implement further but it's a case of us not being the people who decide project priorities. As part of that in this release I've made it possible for content creators to make most in game entities hackable.

We also have a bunch of ideas on how to make mining more interactive for people that want it to be more interesting and I spoke about them at the last Fanfest:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qmUIDlMmQE

CCP Bayesian thanks very much for replying in this thread, I hope you are still monitoring it. As you know in my previous post I was highly critical of the hacking mini game and I remain so, but I hope to respectfully explain why I feel so strongly about what is ultimately just a game mechanic.

For me the mini-game feels artificial, it feels like it's layered on top of eve and not actually a part of it, that may be because it's different in terms of styling to other UI elements, also I find it irritating because when I play eve I actually want to play eve, not a browser based game within eve. It's like logging in to the captains quarters to watch Net Flicks on the big screen. It's immersion breaking and as such it's like hitting a brick wall within the game when you are travelling at 100 miles an hour of immersion and here's why.

In eve we all have character skills whilst we the players direct our characters to perform actions for us in the eve universe, so we don't plot courses our characters do, we direct PI operations and deploy extractors, our characters do the drilling and manage the supply chain with the immense power of their post human cybernetically enhanced minds. I the player do not work out firing solutions for my character's guns, neither do I the player decide when my missiles detonate, my character does all of that for me in the world of eve.

With the mini game suddenly I the player am presented with something that my character could easily do and should be doing which is why the mini game is very un-eve... Capsuleers can manage spaceship command with the power of their minds, the mind gives orders and the capsule interface streams those orders into commands for the crew to follow whilst ship subroutines take care of the more mundane stuff allowing us capsuleers to concentrate on the big picture. With a mind as hierarchically organised as this, the eve thing to do would be to hack the cans with the power of thought, simply expressing a desire to hack a can whilst sitting back as our capsuler/ship interface streams those thoughts into hacking algorithms that combined with some slave AI would be more than enough to crack the hacking interface of most things encountered in the depths of space. This means that we should either be able to hack the can or not dependent on our level of skill vs some random chance. That's how other mechanics work in eve and it works well.

In summary it breeches the player/character divide and that's why I don't like it and would lose interest in a game that has more of this. What's the point of training character skills if I the player have to do all of the work.

That's not to say that in some situations it could be entertaining to have a mini game such as walking in stations and visiting a casino and trying to win some isk by playing games of chance and skill but the context of a character in a sci fi universe having some downtime well away from the capsule/ship interface would support immersion, not break it.

Anyhow I do appreciate the hard work that you guys put into a game like eve which is why I felt it was fair to give you this wall of text with some honest feedback.

As part of that in this release I've made it possible for content creators to make most in game entities hackable.

The mini game is ****, I hope it dies in a fire. I certainly don't want it expanded to other parts of the game as it spoiled exploration for me.

The way ccp are going they wont be happy until they've simplified every aspect of the game and replaced character skills with player skills and dumbed down the game to the point we can play it on a console with a game pad with our 'spaceship piloting' skill.

Is it really that bad?
I have yet to play it once...

"CCP is dumbing down Eve!"

Complains about a minigame that takes actual active player skill and strategy where it used to be just passive chance based and was completely fire-and-forget.

1. The whole thing came onto Team Prototyping Rocks when we were just three developers with a very limited amount of time before the Odyssey release. We were basically tasked by CCP Seagull to create new content in the exploration sites. I concepted and developed the Hacking minigame. CCP Prime (who has since left to pastures new) took the scattering mechanic we had in some mining prototypes and bought it into EVE. Later we were joined by CCP Soundwave, CCP Affinity, CCP Arrow and CCP Optimal.

2. I worked collaboratively with a few other people on the concepting (CCP RedDawn, CCP Tallest, CCP SoniClover) the general ideas we had were similar and we created most of the prototypes as card games.

3. There is definitely desire to move the Hacking, sans the Scattering mechanic into new places and to deepen the gameplay involved in Hacking. I and other people have a whole bunch of stuff we want to implement further but it's a case of us not being the people who decide project priorities. As part of that in this release I've made it possible for content creators to make most in game entities hackable.

We also have a bunch of ideas on how to make mining more interactive for people that want it to be more interesting and I spoke about them at the last Fanfest:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qmUIDlMmQE

CCP Bayesian thanks very much for replying in this thread, I hope you are still monitoring it. As you know in my previous post I was highly critical of the hacking mini game and I remain so, but I hope to respectfully explain why I feel so strongly about what is ultimately just a game mechanic.

For me the mini-game feels artificial, it feels like it's layered on top of eve and not actually a part of it, that may be because it's different in terms of styling to other UI elements, also I find it irritating because when I play eve I actually want to play eve, not a browser based game within eve. It's like logging in to the captains quarters to watch Net Flicks on the big screen. It's immersion breaking and as such it's like hitting a brick wall within the game when you are travelling at 100 miles an hour of immersion and here's why.

In eve we all have character skills whilst we the players direct our characters to perform actions for us in the eve universe, so we don't plot courses our characters do, we direct PI operations and deploy extractors, our characters do the drilling and manage the supply chain with the immense power of their post human cybernetically enhanced minds. I the player do not work out firing solutions for my character's guns, neither do I the player decide when my missiles detonate, my character does all of that for me in the world of eve.

With the mini game suddenly I the player am presented with something that my character could easily do and should be doing which is why the mini game is very un-eve... Capsuleers can manage spaceship command with the power of their minds, the mind gives orders and the capsule interface streams those orders into commands for the crew to follow whilst ship subroutines take care of the more mundane stuff allowing us capsuleers to concentrate on the big picture. With a mind as hierarchically organised as this, the eve thing to do would be to hack the cans with the power of thought, simply expressing a desire to hack a can whilst sitting back as our capsuler/ship interface streams those thoughts into hacking algorithms that combined with some slave AI would be more than enough to crack the hacking interface of most things encountered in the depths of space. This means that we should either be able to hack the can or not dependent on our level of skill vs some random chance. That's how other mechanics work in eve and it works well.

In summary it breeches the player/character divide and that's why I don't like it and would lose interest in a game that has more of this. What's the point of training character skills if I the player have to do all of the work.

That's not to say that in some situations it could be entertaining to have a mini game such as walking in stations and visiting a casino and trying to win some isk by playing games of chance and skill but the context of a character in a sci fi universe having some downtime well away from the capsule/ship interface would support immersion, not break it.

Anyhow I do appreciate the hard work that you guys put into a game like eve which is why I felt it was fair to give you this wall of text with some honest feedback.

The problem ist the game tends to be rather trail and error in the higher end sites (WHs). There is no strategy that gets your through 3 restauration nodes in a row. All you can do is retry until you dont run into that restauration node madness, or are lucky to get some powerups that help you to kill those without loosing to much HP.

I think minigames and quicktime events are the confession of failure when it comes to game design. All they do is trying to distract you form real gameplay.

Are the new Ghost sites going to have the minigame as well?

Question 3: Are there plans to developing the previously concieved games for use in some of Eve Online's current (or future) activities. For example, I see an opportunity for the mini-game when setting up the Siphon on a POS.

[/list]

Question 3: Are there plans to developing the previously concieved games for use in some of Eve Online's current (or future) activities. For example, I see an opportunity for the mini-game when setting up the Siphon on a POS.

[/list]

Yes but no loot scattering.

Yes but no loot scattering.

1. The whole thing came onto Team Prototyping Rocks when we were just three developers with a very limited amount of time before the Odyssey release. We were basically tasked by CCP Seagull to create new content in the exploration sites. I concepted and developed the Hacking minigame. CCP Prime (who has since left to pastures new) took the scattering mechanic we had in some mining prototypes and bought it into EVE. Later we were joined by CCP Soundwave, CCP Affinity, CCP Arrow and CCP Optimal.

2. I worked collaboratively with a few other people on the concepting (CCP RedDawn, CCP Tallest, CCP SoniClover) the general ideas we had were similar and we created most of the prototypes as card games.

3. There is definitely desire to move the Hacking, sans the Scattering mechanic into new places and to deepen the gameplay involved in Hacking. I and other people have a whole bunch of stuff we want to implement further but it's a case of us not being the people who decide project priorities. As part of that in this release I've made it possible for content creators to make most in game entities hackable.

We also have a bunch of ideas on how to make mining more interactive for people that want it to be more interesting and I spoke about them at the last Fanfest:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qmUIDlMmQE

"CCP is dumbing down Eve!"

Complains about a minigame that takes actual active player skill and strategy where it used to be just passive chance based and was completely fire-and-forget.

For all who complain that exploration is bad because the market has chrashed:

Your argument is void.
If Relic sites would be harder to complete or rarer, the stuff inside would be more expensive, but you would have to work harder for it. I even daresay the profit from exploration would not change at all, because there is just a number of ISK per hour for that people are willing to to this. If it has a higher payout, more people will do it and market prices will go down.

So, if you foolow this argument, the low price of certain materials is a measure of success for the hacking game. If people still do this for a few ISKies, it MUST be fun for all of them (else they would be doing something more interesting or profitable!).

As a side effect, since certain materials have become ridiculously cheap, you can either get rich very easily or use a great number of certain cool items that were way too expensive before. ;-)
(if you did not get the hint, T2 Rigs can now be produced at a reasonable price. That's like 250 items that were used very rarely and have now suddenly become viable for very broad application. A great change for the game if you ask me)

Responses

What exactly are you smoking? There is no player skill in the mini-game - its simply a click fest with success premised upon the skill lvl of your character and luck. As for what hacking was like pre-minigame - well sure it was simply hit a button and sit back - it was as basic as it could get - but there was a meta game built around it (at least in low/null) - you needed a combat ship to deal with the rats; this gave a decent target for folk to shoot at; which also allowed other folk to use hacking sites for baiting. Now what do we got? Instead of player driven content with ships asspolding - we got a minigame. (I acknowledge that there are t1 frigs being blown up now - but really is that an acceptable replacement for the combat that used to happen at these sites? IMO shooting an unarmed t1 frig is hardly even worth the sec hit).

The fact that while I have perfect exploration skills, I still don't always successfully navigate the mini-game, as well as the loss to two Cov Ops, counters your claims. So instead of a combat ship to deal with the rats, I now need a very expensive cov-ops ship and spend considerable time and risk travelling through enemy territory, even risking multiple wormhole trips. Sometimes I can strike deals with other local explorers for certain sections of space, other times I'm stuck avoiding random gate camps, or discerning if a particular relic or data site is the one where a local might be staging a trap, or perhaps I go through a WH where the WH residents are actively trying to collapse the hole after I go through it.

So no, there still exists a very strong meta-game element to exploration, it is just different than what you are used to.

The fact that while I have perfect exploration skills, I still don't always successfully navigate the mini-game, as well as the loss to two Cov Ops, counters your claims. So instead of a combat ship to deal with the rats, I now need a very expensive cov-ops ship and spend considerable time and risk travelling through enemy territory, even risking multiple wormhole trips. Sometimes I can strike deals with other local explorers for certain sections of space, other times I'm stuck avoiding random gate camps, or discerning if a particular relic or data site is the one where a local might be staging a trap, or perhaps I go through a WH where the WH residents are actively trying to collapse the hole after I go through it.

So no, there still exists a very strong meta-game element to exploration, it is just different than what you are used to.

For a better experience, dim your monitor and wear sunglasses, so you notice how it feels like to pick those tiny tick boxes and read the diminutive, dim signs on them in case that you're slightly visually impaired. It's funny as hell because also there is no sound backup about wether you clicked the damned tick box or don't.

The fact that you fail at hacking even though you have "perfect" character skills is not as you say a "counter" to my position -- there is a random luck component to the minigame. Your character skills give you a better chance of winning but you can still fail because of bad luck. Of course, none of this has to do with "player" skill - the only skill that you has the player bring to the game is the ability to click your mouse button.

As for the potential to loss cov-ops ships - well if you feel the need to use a cov-ops ship with perfect exploration skills then you are probably doing exploration wrong - stick with the disposable t1 frigs - nothing more is needed - and if you lose one so what -- which is exactly why exploration choked off a decent source of quality pvp in low sec.

Oh and I call shananagens with regard to your claim that you use a cov-ops ship to do exploration in whs. Wh exploration sites still have rats - which means that you need combat ships....

Interestingly that has always existed. The Odyssey patch did not suddenly make that happen. As for not successfully navigating the mini game, that happens to us all. As was pointed out already, the random placement of obstacles in the mini game often dictates success or failure and has little to do with character skills.

I have seen many T1 frigs in null and I have killed several. I have also killed several covops too with my covops. That has nothing to do with exploring except the poor player choice to run sites unarmed.

I think we can all agree the mini game needs improvement. I also think most can agree the loot spew needs to be removed. Unfortunately that is not CCP Bayesian's decision. The direction of the game and any iteration improvements reside elsewhere (looking at you CCP Seagull).

CCP Bayesian we pointed out to you during the pre Odyssey threads that CCP has a legendary habit of introducing mechanics and rarely improving them. Lets hope the Ghost sites are hard to scan down, difficult to loot and make character skills worthwhile again.

"CCP is dumbing down Eve!"

Complains about a minigame that takes actual active player skill and strategy where it used to be just passive chance based and was completely fire-and-forget.

Thanks for the feedback and giving us such a detailed rationale.

To me your complaint is a very subjective one about where the line between "good" management and "bad" micro-management lies. You'd rather feel like you are directing than doing. Frankly I think this is an argument you can make about a lot of EVE systems (and extends into the metagame) and the line is different for individuals. Someone might only want to set a general plan and budget for their PI infrastructure rather than getting into the nitty-gritty. Tactical decision making should probably be passed out to an AI who can best position and utilise the ship or fleets weapons in the age of self-driving cars it's not a leap to see this as possible in a technologically magic universe. The problem with more abstraction is that it makes for less decision making, less ability for people to specialise and a less rich universe.

With the hacking specifically you could, as a narrative conceit, see the abstract presentation as you marshalling the limited resources of the slave AI in order that it best utilised, giving you the greatest chance of success.

CCP Prime... took the scattering mechanic we had in some mining prototypes and bought it into EVE... [and] has since left to pastures new...

There is definitely desire to move the Hacking, sans the Scattering mechanic into new places and to deepen the gameplay involved in Hacking. I and other people have a whole bunch of stuff we want to implement further but it's a case of us not being the people who decide project priorities.

We intended to ultimately have the Utilities as player built resource that would be fitted to the module so you have more agency in that regard.