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funny thing about escort, that there is no real escort system (the BM jumpgate limitation)

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Drutort	Posted - 2003.08.29 10:10:00 - [1] Edited by: Drutort on 31/08/2003 06:53:20 ya nerf BM's? I have no problem... until you make a viable working escort system like the carrier system!! wow what an idea??? EH? come on... there IS NO ESCORT SYSTEM, besides having friends or corp mates that you can trust etc... there needs to be something better then that... you cant just expect to trust someone to go and escort you... and you cant trust that they will pay either... there has to be something that you start thte escort and you must be present at all times or X time with that person that you are escorting and if you do it 100% you get all the pay etc.. if say you are 1 system behind you get -10% and well if your escort gets blown up you should have to pay some kind of fee's or pay out front liability... it should be pretty simple as it would be derived from the carrier system... with some other tweaks etc... escorting can be done either by time or location/distance... the ESCORT system can even help PIRATES and travelers THROUGH BLOCKADES! how? because you make a deal with the escort from the pirate or blockade... THEY cant open fire on you OR they have to pay for the LIABILITY that you set up BEFORE agreing to be escorted... This system would aid even in REGIONS from different alliances!! think... you get X time ESCORT TIME... to be in REGION if anyone kills you they would have to pay for the liability... The escort system should be based on individual and CORP or ALLIANCE reach... meaning that ANY of those could escort you OR BE part of the deal... I have yet to find out who would get the isk.. or were it would go etc... or who would pay for the liability if something to happen but this would work great! also i would think that either concord or the empirtes can reward you as well... you could get standing and or faction for protecting... also concord and maybe other npc's could pay you or give you discounts for being and/or escorting as you are inssuring the ecconomy you are protecting the wealth etc... keep things flowing in areas... simple things as discouts on insurance and % pay of liability... sec rating + the system can be basic and get very complex... this escorting system would be the steping stone for say a PC policing etc... until there is such a system i VOTE NO ON BM limit at jump gates!! support Idea: QuickInfo an alternative to ShowInfo my MoBlog
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2003.08.29 10:11:00 - [2] Edited by: Joshua Calvert on 29/08/2003 10:13:47 Simple solution to the escort problem? Make gangs one entity* and introduce gang formation skills onto the market. Oh, and keep escort duties in-corp. Shoot a gang member and they can all fire back at you without penalty. LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!*
Ruulex DeMors	Posted - 2003.08.29 10:15:00 - [3] Quote: Simple solution to the escort problem? Make gangs one entity* and introduce gang formation skills onto the market. *Shoot a gang member and they can all fire back at you without penalty. Nah, that'll give us the advantage to bust blockades in .1-.4 systems with no sec lose Joshua...won't happen, we've been asking since release why the gang isn't one entity. As to the an escort system..I have a serious lack of faith in the Dev team atm...It'll end up worse with the system they put in then with-out it. ------------------------------------- Interm-CEO for EVE Marshals http://www.EVEMarshals.com
Drutort	Posted - 2003.08.29 10:16:00 - [4] no im saying there is no escort SYSTEM... the BM's were doing and are doing there job for those who wish to spend all those HOURS!!! now CCP trying to fix this to give something back to the pirates... FINE but make sure you make it so you can really HIRE ANYONE WHO WILL ESCORT YOU... but since we lack an escorting system like say the carrier system.. then NO WAY SHOULD THEY DO THIS YET... dont get me wrong im all for that... BM fixing BUT not UNTIL YOU CAN give a good solotion TO ALL PEOPLE... in a big corp this would mean that more members just have to go and travel with some of t he indy ppl thats a... for small corp or individuals FORGET IT!! CCP is sure making it really imposable for the freelancer... with an escort SYSTEM that works this would give option for EVERYONE. support Idea: QuickInfo an alternative to ShowInfo my MoBlog
Discorporation	Posted - 2003.08.29 10:17:00 - [5] Why not start an Escort Service? I'm quite frankly a bit surprised that no-one has created such a corporation.. [Heterocephalus glaber]
Aelita	Posted - 2003.08.29 10:19:00 - [6] For me is decison simple. If warp to BM and stop at top of gate will be romeved I will leaving with all my accounts. I send warning regarding this unaceptable change in game design directly to CCP. I advice all people who agree with my point of view do same. Well who disagree then send your opinion to CCP to but not flame me or call other people C'bears. Insults aren't constructive at all.
Drutort	Posted - 2003.08.29 10:22:00 - [7] Quote: Quote: Simple solution to the escort problem? Make gangs one entity* and introduce gang formation skills onto the market. Shoot a gang member and they can all fire back at you without penalty. Nah, that'll give us the advantage to bust blockades in .1-.4 systems with no sec lose Joshua...won't happen, we've been asking since release why the gang isn't one entity. As to the an escort system..I have a serious lack of faith in the Dev team atm...It'll end up worse with the system they put in then with-out it. well then they should forget about the BM nerf then... because they are sure as hell unballancing the game a lot if they only do the nerf and dont have a good viable soltion to counter that can be done as A JOB. i went into detail... but hte escort system can be QUITE SIMPLE... make it that person who accepts the escort, has to pay up front liability, which will be return up on a complete mission... and then you have a reward that the person who asked for hte escort places... simple isnt it? if the escort gets dmg while being escorted ther could be % reduced from the pay... ship lost well lets say you might have to pay the full liability price... and you could get some kind of NEGATIVE corp rating or something like that. very very simple a complex system would be what i posted up front + a lot more, were you can get very picky etc... like the escort would have to be present at all times as much as possible to get the full payment for the job... etc... this can be done of course. then you can get more in detail as to say you can put liability for the ship, clone, cargo etc... diff liabilities etc... like i said you can get complex but you can also have the very basic. support Idea: QuickInfo* an alternative to ShowInfo my MoBlog
Drutort	Posted - 2003.08.29 10:24:00 - [8] Quote: Why not start an Escort Service? I'm quite frankly a bit surprised that no-one has created such a corporation.. LOL your funny really... how can you enforce any side to comply in anyway without having a system?? who cares about a corp for all we care you could just make it a scam... and blow up or threaten the person you should have been escorting your self!!! there is no way to do it... and how can you be sure the person you are escorting will play up? what kind of payment plan would work? 50/50? no i dont think so probably you would just take the half of isk first and say thank you and leave... YOU CANT DO A REAL ESCORTING JOB/CORP whatever WITHOUT A SYSTEM support Idea: QuickInfo an alternative to ShowInfo my MoBlog
Ruulex DeMors	Posted - 2003.08.29 10:26:00 - [9] Quote: Why not start an Escort Service? I'm quite frankly a bit surprised that no-one has created such a corporation.. Never read my recruitment page in Corp when I was keeping it up did you? How many takers did I have? Zero, not one reply that they wanted or were will to pay for an armed escort. ------------------------------------- Interm-CEO for EVE Marshals http://www.EVEMarshals.com
Drutort	Posted - 2003.08.29 10:32:00 - [10] just think of a escort system.. that would open up so many more things for people to do you will have your blockades as the pirates want and those who wish to go through them regardless will pay for the escorting and they would have to pay some good ISK i bet the more people and im sure there will be escorting CORPS THEN FOR SURE... and the better and more success a escorting corp has the better and more $$$ they would be making etc... like i said im all for the BM's being nerfed SO LONG AS THERE IS A ESCORTING SYSTEM support Idea: QuickInfo an alternative to ShowInfo my MoBlog
Athule Snanm	Posted - 2003.08.29 10:40:00 - [11] I agree completely, bookmarked gates are a problem - if someone has them then there is no way to ambush or attack them. BUT if they are going to be removed then something needs to be in place first to provide an alternative - probably side-by-side with bookmarks for a week or two. If someone has, say nav 5, acc control 5 and a ship equipped with all the best equipment then they should be able to run a blockade (in fact almost any blockade) without resorting to a battleship with multiple MWDs. It should also require some 'real' skill as well but it should be possible, as it is now it's already suicide if the campers are awake. _______________________________ Doomheim - EVE's only hygiene!
Drutort	Posted - 2003.08.29 10:46:00 - [12] I didnt even think... but simple escort system could also provide some what a the basic PC self policing system... as corps would do this and individuals would pay them... HOW? simple there could be plans made to PAY per TIME... and/oR distance... there would be LIABILITY.. in away it could also be like say PC insurance... i mean you put up a LIABILITY and YOU TAKE THAT ISK from those people... etc... OR BANK DOES whatever... and once the mission is successful then the escorting team gets the liability MONEY BACK PLUS the reward/payment... this will work very well you can pay people even to camp with you while you go in zero sec to mine etc.. and then you can have them escort you when you haul etc... 1 or few rich people or those willing to pay can now have security etc.. at a PRICE and this all pretty much derived from carrier SYSTEM. support Idea: QuickInfo an alternative to ShowInfo my MoBlog
Entity	Posted - 2003.08.29 11:12:00 - [13] There's also the problem of pirate wealth. You can't possibly hire a large enough fleet anywhere anytime to scare the average pirate blockade these days. So your fancy indy is going to need a 3-4+ battleship escort (lol?) to get past a blockade, or enough ECM cruisers. This would be rather expensive, and prolly cost more than the ship and cargo (unless it's robotics or bps etc) of the hauler, and waste a total of 5 people's time then instead of just your own. So, yep, freelancers are going to hate this nerf.
Drutort	Posted - 2003.08.29 11:19:00 - [14] Quote: There's also the problem of pirate wealth. You can't possibly hire a large enough fleet anywhere anytime to scare the average pirate blockade these days. So your fancy indy is going to need a 3-4+ battleship escort (lol?) to get past a blockade, or enough ECM cruisers. This would be rather expensive, and prolly cost more than the ship and cargo (unless it's robotics or bps etc) of the hauler, and waste a total of 5 people's time then instead of just your own. So, yep, freelancers are going to hate this nerf. the pirate wealth got to were it was because of the lack of counter pirate means... and these quick fixes kept throughing it to one side or the other.. that is between people and the pirates etc... if you think about it.. with these other changes were you cant jump/dock why would pirates take the risk of losing a ship over an indy? that is escorted? how do the pirates know that THESE ARE the ONLY ESCORTS?? what if you could go and ADD more ESCORTS... just call out in LOCAL SAYING HEY i need MORE ESCORSTS im willing to pay some quick CASH for you to join the escorts to pass this system... you forget that bounty hunters would also be intrested in this system... along side with the escorts support Idea: QuickInfo an alternative to ShowInfo my MoBlog
Drutort	Posted - 2003.08.29 11:22:00 - [15] the solution is that NOW there IS a viable WAY TO PAY AND GET PAYED for ESCORTING... as of NOW THERE IS NO SUCH THING and NOBODY IS WILLING TO DO IT!! what IF concord would reward you or something like that ON TOP of escorting someone, because IN FACT they have brought or taken a person who is making ISK one way or another in the ecconoy... and it is most likly going to go to the other GOOD ppl and NOT into the hands of PIRATES... if concord could add some extra % isk at least say for covering your SHIP or something like that... it would be more worth it... you could simply get a discount for insurance maybe as you can see i was saying that it can be simple and get quite complex... a lot of other layering can be added to make escorting more rewarding etc... support Idea: QuickInfo an alternative to ShowInfo my MoBlog
Discorporation	Posted - 2003.08.29 11:27:00 - [16] Quote: LOL your funny really... how can you enforce any side to comply in anyway without having a system?? who cares about a corp for all we care you could just make it a scam... and blow up or threaten the person you should have been escorting your self!!! This wouldn't be a problem if gangs were fixed (I was under the impression that they were, though). there's no need for hardcoding anything. As for scamming people, no reputable escort service would do such a thing. It would be bad for business. Quote: there is no way to do it... and how can you be sure the person you are escorting will play up? what kind of payment plan would work? 50/50? no i dont think so probably you would just take the half of isk first and say thank you and leave... YOU CANT DO A REAL ESCORTING JOB/CORP whatever WITHOUT A SYSTEM Perhaps, apart from hardcoding a single system, we should get the contract system planned way back? That'd solve quite a bit of problems, I imagine. [Heterocephalus glaber]
Discorporation	Posted - 2003.08.29 11:29:00 - [17] Quote: Never read my recruitment page in Corp when I was keeping it up did you? How many takers did I have? Zero, not one reply that they wanted or were will to pay for an armed escort. Well, no, I don't read recruitment threads. Silly that no-one will pay. It's be quite a good profession, I imagine. [Heterocephalus glaber]
Drutort	Posted - 2003.08.29 19:08:00 - [18] i would have to agree with some of the other idea's but they would not fix these issues as much as an escorting system would... creating option to drop out of warp in X KM was needed and was talking about long long ago... the idea that if there are some players at a gate to have you warp in from a much farther say safer range is ok, probably for systems .4 and lower... and the idea of being warped in much closer IF nobody is around the jump gate is also a good one... but none of those can give you a way to be safer... the fact that escort system is needed is just that... it is needed even regardless to this proposition of the BM changes... but now it would be needed more so then ever. support Idea: QuickInfo an alternative to ShowInfo my MoBlog
Drutort	Posted - 2003.08.31 06:49:00 - [19] Quote: Quote: Never read my recruitment page in Corp when I was keeping it up did you? How many takers did I have? Zero, not one reply that they wanted or were will to pay for an armed escort. Well, no, I don't read recruitment threads. Silly that no-one will pay. It's be quite a good profession, I imagine. well i personally dont care... the escort system can work for everyone... simple... even the pirates.. HOW? simple you can easy make an escort deal with one of the pirate corp members... and you GIVE them the money after you PASS the area... simple as that... if they fire at you they would have to pay your FEE that is the liability FEE... if they let you pass the isk auto goes to that person that escorted you... SIMPLE AS THAT... PIRATES CAN PROFIT AS WELL... EVERYONE HAPPY right now there IS NO WAY TO SET UP ANY FORM OF PAYMENT.. there is no IF you let me go and i reach X point you get X isk.... people would not need the BM's for instant jumping if they know that they can PAY the pirates and know that they will not fire at them... etc... simple everone happy... support Idea: QuickInfo an alternative to ShowInfo my MoBlog
Snowman	Posted - 2003.08.31 08:00:00 - [20] Yeah the pirates can setup an escort service to guide people past their blockades, for a nominal fee of course.
Drutort	Posted - 2003.08.31 08:06:00 - [21] Quote: Yeah the pirates can setup an escort service to guide people past their blockades, for a nominal fee of course. if hte system would work... they would not have to do so... and im more then sure it would be based per person... based on the value that they are holding... also you forget that OTHER full time escort corps would be there its a very nice ballance if you ask me... it is fair for both sides and everyone is happy... it sure doesnt harm anything and that is the best part support Idea: QuickInfo an alternative to ShowInfo my MoBlog
Kalle Port	Posted - 2003.08.31 08:25:00 - [22] I'm not sure there is really need for a hardcoded esort service. I mean its very simple. If i escort you and you don't pay up then i will simply kill yuou next time i see you. If you escort me and you don't keep your deal i will make it public and you'll never get another escort deal.
Drutort	Posted - 2003.08.31 08:28:00 - [23] Quote: I'm not sure there is really need for a hardcoded esort service. I mean its very simple. If i escort you and you don't pay up then i will simply kill yuou next time i see you. If you escort me and you don't keep your deal i will make it public and you'll never get another escort deal. but really can you escort people? i mean its your word vs there's you cant do jack... and esp with pirates how can you trust them? if you have a system IE it auto pays or takes money if they fail to escort etc... then its OUT of the players TRUST and in the system were its fair... thats why you need a system... think about the MARKET... WHAT IF the market was based on WORD/TRUST LOL would there be a market??? could you really buy or sell or get items??? that is why an escort system is needed support Idea: QuickInfo an alternative to ShowInfo my MoBlog
Kalle Port	Posted - 2003.08.31 08:44:00 - [24] Edited by: Kalle Port on 31/08/2003 08:45:38 oops, used back button and ended up replying in wrogn thread

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