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Missy Meatshield
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Posted - 2006.02.03 18:09:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Missy Meatshield on 03/02/2006 18:12:29
hi fellas,
i just was wondering what people think about the Nightmare. Its something i have always wanted... i like the design philosophy...very rounded. But how does it fit against the navy ships and the other faction ships? FOr instance vs a rattlesnake, vindicator, machariel, etc
If you would like... give your own personal ranking of the ships or if you feel that isnt appropriate then lemme know what you think the different ships specialize in.
And last but not least.... anyone know the dps for the nightmare if it were 4 tachs and 4 seige. how would this compare to high dmg setups on other ships? And where does it fit in with tanking?
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dalman
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Posted - 2006.02.03 18:22:00 -
[2]
It doesn't fit in, at all. It's the worst faction battleship.
It can not utilize the strengths it has, because it lacks other things. To be more specific it lacks CPU and cap. To such a degree that it's not better than standard battleships.
It's also a very rare ship; therefor it cost more than other faction battleships despite being far behind them in use.
Drink up, shoot in. Let the beating begin.
Distributor of pain. Your loss becomes my gain...
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SengH
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Posted - 2006.02.03 18:27:00 -
[3]
Its nearest relative would be a pirate version of the phoon with lasers lol.....
Although someone did have a setup a month or so back that managed to get 100k armor on the nightmare...
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Megadon
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Posted - 2006.02.03 18:31:00 -
[4]
Well I think that the Rattlesnake rules them all, with the 50% bonus to Cruise Missile and Torpedo velocity bonus being insane in addition to the more regular bonuses being:
*Caldari Battleship Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to Cruise
Missile and Torpedo rate of fire per level
*Gallente Battleship Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to Large
Hybrid Turret damage per level
After that I think it is a matter of tastes and specializations of the pilot as to which ship is best.
I think the Nightmare fits somewhere in the middle of the pack and I am intent of flying one soon.
I am still deciding on whether to fit it with tachs and cruises, or megapulses and torps. Guess I'll have to see.
It would be great if some Nightmare pilots gave their thoughts on this. Looks like a really fun ship to fly
"The Battleships is and should be a solo pwnmobile." - Oveur
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dalman
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Posted - 2006.02.03 18:44:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: SengH
Its nearest relative would be a pirate version of the phoon with lasers lol...
Nah, not at all:
With 3 bonuses (laser cap need, laser damage and launcher rof) it can deal alot more damage with very little cap use.
And with 4-8 slots it could fit a very good tank.
But, it does not have enough CPU to fit what you want in the highs to really do that damage it can do. Also, it's base cap isn't really enough for a "cap recharge tank". And if you want to fit some cap injector... well, d'oh, guess if that helps with the CPU problem
On the other hand it has alot of spare grid, so you have no problems fitting officer warp disruptors on it.
Drink up, shoot in. Let the beating begin.
Distributor of pain. Your loss becomes my gain...
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Cummilla
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Posted - 2006.02.03 18:52:00 -
[6]
far and away the worst faction battleship.
It's biggest problem is shallow to nonexistent cap. Give it the apocs cap and you might have something to work with.
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Cummilla
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Posted - 2006.02.03 18:52:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Cummilla on 03/02/2006 18:53:49
-nt- double post
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Megadon
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Posted - 2006.02.03 20:21:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Megadon on 03/02/2006 20:23:04
Originally by: Cummilla
far and away the worst faction battleship.
It's biggest problem is shallow to nonexistent cap. Give it the apocs cap and you might have something to work with.
I think your forgetting its cap bonuses.
Special Ability: 50% reduction in Large Energy
Weapon capacitor use
and
5% bonus to Large
Energy Weapon rate of fire per level
"The Battleships is and should be a solo pwnmobile." - Oveur
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Jennifae
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Posted - 2006.02.03 21:35:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Megadon
Edited by: Megadon on 03/02/2006 20:23:04
Originally by: Cummilla
far and away the worst faction battleship.
It's biggest problem is shallow to nonexistent cap. Give it the apocs cap and you might have something to work with.
I think your forgetting its cap bonuses.
Special Ability: 50% reduction in Large Energy
Weapon capacitor use
and
5% bonus to Large
Energy Weapon rate of fire per level
I'm fully aware of it's bonuses. Fact is though, it's base cap is laughable. Apoc has tons more to work with. Nightmare cap is slightly greater than a domi with MWD!
You almost have to cap inject it! But then you lose precious grid\cpu. What good is alot of armor if you don't have the cap to run the reps and outlast the opposition in a long fight?
I sold my nightmare 12 hours afterI got it....that's how lacking it was. BTW, I've flown Navy Raven(still have) and a Machariel. So I have some basis to make a comparison.
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Megadon
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Posted - 2006.02.03 21:42:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Jennifae
Originally by: Megadon
Edited by: Megadon on 03/02/2006 20:23:04
Originally by: Cummilla
far and away the worst faction battleship.
It's biggest problem is shallow to nonexistent cap. Give it the apocs cap and you might have something to work with.
I think your forgetting its cap bonuses.
Special Ability: 50% reduction in Large Energy
Weapon capacitor use
and
5% bonus to Large
Energy Weapon rate of fire per level
I'm fully aware of it's bonuses. Fact is though, it's base cap is laughable. Apoc has tons more to work with. Nightmare cap is slightly greater than a domi with MWD!
You almost have to cap inject it! But then you lose precious grid\cpu. What good is alot of armor if you don't have the cap to run the reps and outlast the opposition in a long fight?
I sold my nightmare 12 hours afterI got it....that's how lacking it was. BTW, I've flown Navy Raven(still have) and a Machariel. So I have some basis to make a comparison.
That's cool, I wasn't jumping your case or anything, I just thought you may have over looked it. I'm surprised that the apocs base cap of 4800 vs the Nightmares base of 4250 makes such a huge diff when the nightmare only uses 4 energy turrets and has a 50% cap bonus for large energy turrets.
But the proof is in the pudding as they say.
I'm sure you like the CNR.
"The Battleships is and should be a solo pwnmobile." - Oveur
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Shirei
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Posted - 2006.02.03 22:01:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Shirei on 03/02/2006 22:01:37
The Apoc gets two cap bonuses (including the one the Nightmare gets) and has more base cap... Do I need to say more?
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Jennifae
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Posted - 2006.02.03 22:17:00 -
[12]
CNR has been in ALOT of hairy situations. Including one in which a machariel I was fighting with went down when we were ambushed. The CNR didn't even break a sweat. These days with damage controls, shield tanking resist skills, and a decent setup, you can approach hac-esque resists and get yourself out of some truly harrowing situations.
I really WANTED the nightmare to be good. It had an incredible cool look factor to it. And at the time I was looking for something to stand in there toe to toe and absorb damage from multiple BS while the CNR(I box two account regularly) warps in and clears the battlefield. It just wasnt meant to be. I'm glad I actually made 100mil on the resale otherwise I would have no one to blame besides myself because I should have read ALL the specs for the ship before buying!
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Hellspawn01
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Posted - 2006.02.04 00:47:00 -
[13]
Nightmare is faaar from useless.
I fly one myself and its a great armor tank,. With the right skills and setup, you can run 2x L armor reps and 4x tachyons forever. You can do good damage with cruise and tachyons at once at all ranges. The RoF to lasers makes it a very good damage dealer even without damage bonus and the lasers dont eat much cap cuz of the special ship bonus. It might have less cap than an apoc, but thats cuz the apoc has a cap bonus but it has one more low slot than an apoc. It has the most armor of all BSs with maxed skills, over 12k (cant check right number atm). Imagine the armor with a slave implant set.
I have enough grid AND CPU to fit 4x tachyons, 4x cruise, 4x cap rechargers (True sansha 4tw), 2x complex reppers, 3x armor hardeners and the rest cap relays or stuff for grid.
And now dont come with crap like "my CNR ownz a nightmare". Torps own any BS atm so stop flaming.
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BlogÖ |
Jennifae
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Posted - 2006.02.04 01:05:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Hellspawn01
Nightmare is faaar from useless.
I fly one myself and its a great armor tank,. With the right skills and setup, you can run 2x L armor reps and 4x tachyons forever. You can do good damage with cruise and tachyons at once at all ranges. The RoF to lasers makes it a very good damage dealer even without damage bonus and the lasers dont eat much cap cuz of the special ship bonus. It might have less cap than an apoc, but thats cuz the apoc has a cap bonus but it has one more low slot than an apoc. It has the most armor of all BSs with maxed skills, over 12k (cant check right number atm). Imagine the armor with a slave implant set.
I have enough grid AND CPU to fit 4x tachyons, 4x cruise, 4x cap rechargers (True sansha 4tw), 2x complex reppers, 3x armor hardeners and the rest cap relays or stuff for grid.
And now dont come with crap like "my CNR ownz a nightmare". Torps own any BS atm so stop flaming.
apoc can do anything a nightmare can do....better and extremely cheaper. Put all that faction tanking stuff on an apoc and see how it does.
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Miabio
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Posted - 2006.02.04 02:53:00 -
[15]
Do a Margional Utility Curve, Price+Gain-Want = Apoc. The Apoc may not be better, but when you can fit a whole bunch of apocs and all the nessisary implants many times over for the price of a single Nightmare w/o Mods. . . your realize that its not worth it.
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Missy Meatshield
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Posted - 2006.02.04 22:11:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Missy Meatshield on 04/02/2006 22:12:20
so if the apoc is so great then and can almost mimic a nightmare... then you are saying a navy apoc would be what i really want since it has the best cap in the game w/ the extra low slot?
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Missy Meatshield
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Posted - 2006.02.04 22:14:00 -
[17]
and someone said the rattlesnake was best... does everyone agree on that?
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dalman
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Posted - 2006.02.04 22:22:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Missy Meatshield
and someone said the rattlesnake was best... does everyone agree on that?
All the faction battleships have their strengths.
With missiles and high-end shield boosting being what's overpowered in the game atm, that means the caldari factionships are 'best' atm. Except for solo PvP.
The Caldar Navy Raven with 7 launchers and more CPU is easier to fit and does more dps. The rattlesnake with an extra lowslot can fit a better defence. Which of these is best depends on the situation.
And yes, the Navy Apoc is better than the nightmare on almost everything.
Drink up, shoot in. Let the beating begin.
Distributor of pain. Your loss becomes my gain...
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KingsGambit
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Posted - 2006.02.05 01:18:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Megadon
I think your forgetting its cap bonuses.
Special Ability: 50% reduction in Large Energy
Weapon capacitor use
and
5% bonus to Large
Energy Weapon rate of fire per level
Just for the record, the 5% ROF bonus is also a 5% increase in turret cap usage per lvl, so though you get 50% reduction, you also get 25% increase (assuming lvl 5 Amarr BS skill). Same on Armageddon...and...well any ship with a ROF bonus and cap-using weapons, so it's actually just a 25% decrease in cap usage (though cap usage would be better in the case of the nightmare the lower the lvl of Amarr BS...go figure!). 
Originally by: Missy Meatshield
...then you are saying a navy apoc would be what i really want since it has the best cap in the game w/ the extra low slot?
I got one for that sole reason...the Apoc is an amazing ship...given an 8th low slot and 50% more hull, armour & shield it's in a different league 
Mine is fitted as follows:
Hi: 6x Mega Modulated Pulse (Any Crystals), 2x Cruise Launcher
Mid: 3x Cap Recharger II, 1x 100mn AB II
Low: 3x Armour Hardener IIs, 2x Large Armour Repairer IIs, 3x Cap Relay
Sadly not enough spare CPU for siege launchers, but about 3k PG left. Can put back 1600 armour in 12.5 secs with Repair Systems 4...I'd train 5 except that it'd make the repairers use more 5% more cap  I await the day CCP realise they have a bunch of crumby skills which penalise pilots the higher they train them. It took em two years to click about EW skills, I'll give em till 2008 to register the others 1v1 I can't imagine a Nightmare being better in any way, which is why I didn't buy one.
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My T2 Shop |
ElCoCo
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Posted - 2006.02.05 02:14:00 -
[20]
Yes but but.... it's definately the coolest looking BS out there.
And I'm willing to trade a navy megathron for a nightmare if anyone has it 
There's more to gaming than just having the best gear
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Missy Meatshield
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Posted - 2006.02.06 03:53:00 -
[21]
one question tho... isnt the nightmare a little more versatile in that it can snipe afar or it can use missiles at a point-blank gate engagement. A navy apoc at point blank may have some trouble eh?
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