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oOReikaOo Michiko
Koshaku Gentlemen's Agreement
173
|
Posted - 2013.10.26 17:42:00 -
[1] - Quote
I've debated writing this up for a while now because anyone can see the kind of backlash im going to receive for doing so, but some topics are too important to be ignored.
In 2012 im sure you all remember there was an incident involving player on player harassment that tested the bounds of how far the quote "This is EVE" goes. Im referring of course to the Mittani incident http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7Ki91U-mBE#t=3869.
I believe there is another player who routinely has stepped up their harassment to the point where it borders the same level, this player is Erotica 1 and her known associates the New Order. I would like to state that the harassment described does NOT in ANY way refer to the miner bumping/suicide ganking of this group. I am specifically referring to the harassment that is involved during Erotica 1's doubling ISK scam.
For those who do not know about Erotica 1's scam, it involves having many members of the New Order vouch for her that she is indeed a legitimate ISK doubler, aftwerwards Erotica will indeed start doubling the persons ISK. After a person has done this twice they are given the opportunity for a "Bonus Room", wherein the target must hand over every last bit of property they own as a sign of "good faith".
This is where the line between harmless and harassment starts, so far everything stated is simple scam tactics and is a "shame on you for believing them" moment. What occurs NEXT however is where I feel this group crosses the line of simple EVE trolling.
The target is lured into a third party mic chat to discuss finalizing the transaction. The entire conversation is recorded and will be uploaded to their minerbumping.com website for prosperity as well as a lengthy description of the event and worded in a way that will bring the most embarrassment to the target. If this seems familiar at all to the Mittani incident, its because it is. Public ridicule, a total lack of regard for how far they take the ridicule, it in no way benefits the game or "creates content".
Please listen to and read the following example:
https://soundcloud.com/minerbumping/Erotica1-scams-Hydra-and-makes-him-sing-Im-a-little-teapot
*Explained*
http://www.minerbumping.com/2013/05/hydra-headed-lies-part-1.html Part 1 http://www.minerbumping.com/2013/05/hydra-headed-lies-part-2.html Part 2 http://www.minerbumping.com/2013/06/hydra-headed-lies-part-3.html Part 3 http://www.minerbumping.com/2013/06/hydra-headed-lies-part-4.html Part 4 http://www.minerbumping.com/2013/06/hydra-headed-lies-part-5.html Part 5
As you can see, the players humiliate the target by having them do these embarrassing acts, and then post the .wav files for all of their fans to enjoy, lastly of course the player never had any chance of getting their items back or doubling their assets.
I urge the CSM and the CCP to really take a hard look at if this benefits the game at all. Exactly at what point do you stop to say, hey this is going too far, this isn't what was intended for EVE gameplay. I strongly believe that what is being allowed to occur currently is cyberbullying, illegal in many places. I am not requesting that the players be banned, their miner bumping actions be hindered, or even for them to stop the scam in general. I simply would like CCP to step in and halt any further promotion of this obscene practice of public ridicule and humiliation
I have only been here a month, and in that time this issue has so disgusted me that im already submitting requests to CSM and CCP, a month.
*edit* I'd like to state I started by first creating a support ticket about this issue, but was told I would have to bring this issue up through this channel. |

admiral root
Red Galaxy SpaceMonkey's Alliance
619
|
Posted - 2013.10.26 17:55:00 -
[2] - Quote
You seem to have mistaken the forum for a support ticket. No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff |

oOReikaOo Michiko
Koshaku Gentlemen's Agreement
173
|
Posted - 2013.10.26 17:56:00 -
[3] - Quote
admiral root wrote:You seem to have mistaken the forum for a support ticket.
Please read the last sentence |

ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
3515
|
Posted - 2013.10.26 21:53:00 -
[4] - Quote
Nah. It's stuff like this that makes EVE fun
I'm pretty sure there is a recording of me somewhere singing "I like big Butts and I cannot lie..." after a particularly embarrassing incident.  Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective. |

Malcolm Shinhwa
Bad Touches
508
|
Posted - 2013.10.26 22:05:00 -
[5] - Quote
Quote:I wished Erotica1 a happy birthday because I think everyone deserves a happy joyous birthday..
but now I can only truly say I wish that Erotica1 would die in front of his PC releasing his bowels on his chair, and being discovered alone with 50 cats eating his corpse.
This is the OP in the minerbumping forums who now without the slightest bit of irony, would like to whip out charges of harassment and "cyber bullying" at what goes on inside of a game.
Quote:*edit* I'd like to state I started by first creating a support ticket about this issue, but was told I would have to bring this issue up through this channel.
You've already gotten your answer as to whether it is a EULA breach to scam players so your title is misleading.
Go find a game you like to play. Eve, and any competitive game, isn't for you. Hey CCP, please slush my fund like you did for SOMER Blink. |

oOReikaOo Michiko
Koshaku Gentlemen's Agreement
174
|
Posted - 2013.10.26 22:09:00 -
[6] - Quote
Malcolm Shinhwa wrote:Quote:I wished Erotica1 a happy birthday because I think everyone deserves a happy joyous birthday..
but now I can only truly say I wish that Erotica1 would die in front of his PC releasing his bowels on his chair, and being discovered alone with 50 cats eating his corpse. This is the OP in the minerbumping forums who now without the slightest bit of irony, would like to whip out charges of harassment and "cyber bullying" at what goes on inside of a game. Quote:*edit* I'd like to state I started by first creating a support ticket about this issue, but was told I would have to bring this issue up through this channel. You've already gotten your answer as to whether it is a EULA breach to scam players so your title is misleading. Go find a game you like to play. Eve, and any competitive game, isn't for you.
I was wondering when you would pull this. Those are a direct quote of my feelings towards bullies, and I am not ashamed of them. No actual threat levied against Erotica 1 and im sure if you ask him he'll tell you I've been nothing but civil even thought I think... very little of him to put it kindly. |

Malcolm Shinhwa
Bad Touches
508
|
Posted - 2013.10.26 22:17:00 -
[7] - Quote
oOReikaOo Michiko wrote:I was wondering when you would pull this. Those are a direct quote of my feelings towards bullies, and I am not ashamed of them. No actual threat levied against Erotica 1 and im sure if you ask him he'll tell you I've been nothing but civil even thought I think... very little of him to put it kindly.
Very little? You want him dead. Over a video game. You're unbalanced and disconnected with reality. I'm pretty sure you should seek professional help. Hey CCP, please slush my fund like you did for SOMER Blink. |

oOReikaOo Michiko
Koshaku Gentlemen's Agreement
174
|
Posted - 2013.10.26 22:22:00 -
[8] - Quote
Malcolm Shinhwa wrote:oOReikaOo Michiko wrote:I was wondering when you would pull this. Those are a direct quote of my feelings towards bullies, and I am not ashamed of them. No actual threat levied against Erotica 1 and im sure if you ask him he'll tell you I've been nothing but civil even thought I think... very little of him to put it kindly. Very little? You want him dead. Over a video game. You're unbalanced and disconnected with reality. I'm pretty sure you should seek professional help.
If you don't mind , this thread is for constructive well thought out debate over whether this type of behavior should be allowed by EULA, your personal attacks are not appreciated, feel free to do those in any of the other threads your currently engaging me in.
If you don't have a specific argument against the proposal , I ask you refrain from posting. |

Malcolm Shinhwa
Bad Touches
508
|
Posted - 2013.10.26 22:31:00 -
[9] - Quote
oOReikaOo Michiko wrote:Malcolm Shinhwa wrote:oOReikaOo Michiko wrote:I was wondering when you would pull this. Those are a direct quote of my feelings towards bullies, and I am not ashamed of them. No actual threat levied against Erotica 1 and im sure if you ask him he'll tell you I've been nothing but civil even thought I think... very little of him to put it kindly. Very little? You want him dead. Over a video game. You're unbalanced and disconnected with reality. I'm pretty sure you should seek professional help. If you don't mind , this thread is for constructive well thought out debate over whether this type of behavior should be allowed by EULA, your personal attacks are not appreciated, feel free to do those in any of the other threads your currently engaging me in. If you don't have a specific argument against the proposal , I ask you refrain from posting.
Haha.. complaining about personal attacks. That is rich. Also, "forum", not "pulpit". Your proposal is bad because no evidence cited consitutes harrasment or cyberbulling. CCP is pretty good about bringing the banhammer when it does, and they sent you here instead. In fact, the only two people mentioned in this thread who said they wanted someone to die is The Mittani and you. Which while not EULA breaking because you like to be passive-agressive with your RL death fantasies, is sick. If you feel like that about anyone, seek help. Hey CCP, please slush my fund like you did for SOMER Blink. |

oOReikaOo Michiko
Koshaku Gentlemen's Agreement
174
|
Posted - 2013.10.26 22:40:00 -
[10] - Quote
Malcolm Shinhwa wrote:oOReikaOo Michiko wrote:Malcolm Shinhwa wrote:oOReikaOo Michiko wrote:I was wondering when you would pull this. Those are a direct quote of my feelings towards bullies, and I am not ashamed of them. No actual threat levied against Erotica 1 and im sure if you ask him he'll tell you I've been nothing but civil even thought I think... very little of him to put it kindly. Very little? You want him dead. Over a video game. You're unbalanced and disconnected with reality. I'm pretty sure you should seek professional help. If you don't mind , this thread is for constructive well thought out debate over whether this type of behavior should be allowed by EULA, your personal attacks are not appreciated, feel free to do those in any of the other threads your currently engaging me in. If you don't have a specific argument against the proposal , I ask you refrain from posting. Haha.. complaining about personal attacks. That is rich. Also, "forum", not "pulpit". Your proposal is bad because no evidence cited consitutes harrasment or cyberbulling. CCP is pretty good about bringing the banhammer when it does, and they sent you here instead. In fact, the only two people mentioned in this thread who said they wanted someone to die is The Mittani and you. Which while not EULA breaking because you like to be passive-agressive with your RL death fantasies, is sick. If you feel like that about anyone, seek help.
Im currently having the evidence reviewed by a specialist in cyberbullying. I should have it within the week. |
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Malcolm Shinhwa
Bad Touches
508
|
Posted - 2013.10.26 22:44:00 -
[11] - Quote
oOReikaOo Michiko wrote: Im currently having the evidence reviewed by a specialist in cyberbullying. I should have it within the week.
Good. When he gets to the part where you wished a fellow human being would:
Quote:but now I can only truly say I wish that Erotica1 would die in front of his PC releasing his bowels on his chair, and being discovered alone with 50 cats eating his corpse.
I am sure he'll recommend therapy for you as well. Hey CCP, please slush my fund like you did for SOMER Blink. |

Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
1040
|
Posted - 2013.10.26 23:16:00 -
[12] - Quote
He's mad The Tears Must Flow |

Lady Areola Fappington
New Order Logistics CODE.
749
|
Posted - 2013.10.26 23:20:00 -
[13] - Quote
Malcolm Shinhwa wrote:oOReikaOo Michiko wrote: Im currently having the evidence reviewed by a specialist in cyberbullying. I should have it within the week.
Good. When he gets to the part where you wished a fellow human being would: Quote:die in front of his PC releasing his bowels on his chair, and being discovered alone with 50 cats eating his corpse. I am sure he'll recommend therapy for you as well.
As a specialist in cyberbullying, I'd like to state, Erotica 1's activities do not represent what we know as cyberbullying.
Also, as stated many, many, many times before, the CSM really isn't the appropriate entity to ask for EULA/TOS changes. It's not something they do. I'd also recommend you take a quick moment to review exactly WHO your CSM reps are. They.....tend to enjoy seeing emergent gameplay.
If you really, really, really think Ero 1 and company are breaking "cyberbully" laws, I recommend you talk with your local law enforcement entity. The risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP). |

oOReikaOo Michiko
Koshaku Gentlemen's Agreement
174
|
Posted - 2013.10.26 23:24:00 -
[14] - Quote
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:Malcolm Shinhwa wrote:oOReikaOo Michiko wrote: Im currently having the evidence reviewed by a specialist in cyberbullying. I should have it within the week.
Good. When he gets to the part where you wished a fellow human being would: Quote:die in front of his PC releasing his bowels on his chair, and being discovered alone with 50 cats eating his corpse. I am sure he'll recommend therapy for you as well. As a specialist in cyberbullying, I'd like to state, Erotica 1's activities do not represent what we know as cyberbullying. Also, as stated many, many, many times before, the CSM really isn't the appropriate entity to ask for EULA/TOS changes. It's not something they do. I'd also recommend you take a quick moment to review exactly WHO your CSM reps are. They.....tend to enjoy seeing emergent gameplay. If you really, really, really think Ero 1 and company are breaking "cyberbully" laws, I recommend you talk with your local law enforcement entity.
Specialist? Can you please explain. |

Malcolm Shinhwa
Bad Touches
510
|
Posted - 2013.10.26 23:35:00 -
[15] - Quote
You gotta go Parallux for quality, and ancient, Eve tears.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ns9oAGnK9CU Hey CCP, please slush my fund like you did for SOMER Blink. |

ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
3523
|
Posted - 2013.10.27 00:12:00 -
[16] - Quote
Hahahahaha... the thug lyfe meets internet games.
There should be shows on this!  Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective. |

Lady Areola Fappington
New Order Logistics CODE.
749
|
Posted - 2013.10.27 00:52:00 -
[17] - Quote
oOReikaOo Michiko wrote:
Specialist? Can you please explain.
The words speak for themselves. I am a specialist in cyberbullying.
Here, bullying, at it's core, required forced nonconsensual involvement in an enviroment. Schoolkids can be bullied, because they cannot remove themselves from school. Workplace bullying exists because it's quite difficult for someone to up and change a job. Cyberbullying exists only in that social media has become a huge part of today's life, and isn't something easy to escape from.
Ero 1's bonus rooms and singing are purely consensual. Nobody forces you to play Ero's game. You are not required to join the bonus round. Nobody is holding a gun to a person's head, forcing them to sing. You can walk away at any time.
You can start calling it "bullying", when CCP comes in and says "sing on ventrillo or lose your account". Till then, it's someone making a poor decision. The risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP). |

Varius Xeral
Galactic Trade Syndicate
1519
|
Posted - 2013.10.27 01:25:00 -
[18] - Quote
And it's not done through any Eve medium. It would be like CCP enforcing harassment rules on kugutsumen. Official Representative of The Nullsec Zealot Cabal |

oOReikaOo Michiko
Koshaku Gentlemen's Agreement
174
|
Posted - 2013.10.27 09:15:00 -
[19] - Quote
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:oOReikaOo Michiko wrote:
Specialist? Can you please explain.
The words speak for themselves. I am a specialist in cyberbullying. Here, bullying, at it's core, required forced nonconsensual involvement in an enviroment. Schoolkids can be bullied, because they cannot remove themselves from school. Workplace bullying exists because it's quite difficult for someone to up and change a job. Cyberbullying exists only in that social media has become a huge part of today's life, and isn't something easy to escape from. Ero 1's bonus rooms and singing are purely consensual. Nobody forces you to play Ero's game. You are not required to join the bonus round. Nobody is holding a gun to a person's head, forcing them to sing. You can walk away at any time. You can start calling it "bullying", when CCP comes in and says "sing on ventrillo or lose your account". Till then, it's someone making a poor decision.
So you think just because we can quit EVE Online its not cyberbullying? Ridiculous.
"Bullying is the use of force, threat, or coercion to abuse, intimidate, or aggressively to impose domination over others. The behavior is often repeated and habitual. One essential prerequisite is the perception, by the bully or by others, of an imbalance of social or physical power. Behaviors used to assert such domination can include verbal harassment or threat, physical assault or coercion, and such acts may be directed repeatedly towards particular targets. Justifications and rationalizations for such behavior sometimes include differences of class, race, religion, gender, sexuality, appearance, behavior, or ability.[2][3] If bullying is done by a group, it is called mobbing.[4] The target of bullying is sometimes referred to as a "victim""
No where in this definition does it say "hey your not a victim if you can walk away". I am at work and my manager bullies me, but HEY its not bullying because I can quit my job!!! No your still being bullied, you should not have to quit your job , quit a game, or do ANYTHING because of another person. You are bullies. |

Danika Princip
Freelance Economics Astrological resources Tactical Narcotics Team
1843
|
Posted - 2013.10.27 10:04:00 -
[20] - Quote
You are aware that alliance panels at fanfest have frequently contained clips of people being made to sing as ransoms for thier ship, right? And that these pannels have been pre-approved by CCP before they're put on?
If they thought making people sing was bad, they wouldn't allow that.
Now, I have nothing to do with new order, other than finding them hilarious, but I think the only EULA violation here is you literally wishing for the death of another human being over a stupid internet spaceship video game. You need help.
Edit: How do the cyberbulling laws in iceland work anyway?  |
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oOReikaOo Michiko
Koshaku Gentlemen's Agreement
174
|
Posted - 2013.10.27 10:08:00 -
[21] - Quote
Your correct in saying that currently its not against the EULA, hence this proposal. If no one shows they dont approve of these actions CCP will never do anything about them. I have been messaged by a lot of people who tell me they support my posts about the issue but not one of them is willing to actually take the fight where it matters. Simply put they are all afraid of you and the backlash you produce. |

Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
15626
|
Posted - 2013.10.27 12:53:00 -
[22] - Quote
Malcolm Shinhwa wrote:oOReikaOo Michiko wrote: Im currently having the evidence reviewed by a specialist in cyberbullying. I should have it within the week.
Good. When he gets to the part where you wished a fellow human being would: Quote:die in front of his PC releasing his bowels on his chair, and being discovered alone with 50 cats eating his corpse. I am sure he'll recommend therapy for you as well. Wow OP, you have some serious issues. May I suggest you take a short break from gaming for a while and gain some perspective on life.
Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. |

Nomis Alexander
Haldskel Corporation Fortuna Alliance
1
|
Posted - 2013.10.27 14:58:00 -
[23] - Quote
Let's take a look back over this thread. First, the definition of bullying you cite:
Quote:Behaviors used to assert such domination can include verbal harassment or threat...and such acts may be directed repeatedly towards particular targets. Justifications and rationalizations for such behavior sometimes include differences of...behavior, or ability.
So, by that rationale, comments like the following must surely count as bullying:
Quote:I can only truly say I wish that Erotica1 would die in front of his PC releasing his bowels on his chair, and being discovered alone with 50 cats eating his corpse.
Your 'arguments' are full of inconsistencies, contradictions, self-aggrandisation, baseless histrionics and, worst of all, glaring hypocrisy.
Might I respectfully recommend you take a few days or weeks away from a game whose rules you openly cite as being unsatisfactory (this dissatisfaction being the remit of your thread), or even look for another pastime, one you find less distressing. |

Nomis Alexander
Haldskel Corporation Fortuna Alliance
1
|
Posted - 2013.10.27 15:01:00 -
[24] - Quote
oOReikaOo Michiko wrote:. I have been messaged by a lot of people who tell me they support my posts about the issue
I bet you haven't
|

Nomis Alexander
Haldskel Corporation Fortuna Alliance
6
|
Posted - 2013.10.27 15:14:00 -
[25] - Quote
Sorry to spam, but I've subsribed to the minerbumping.com thread in question, and I now have even bigger concerns over the credibility of the complaint and its source. It's difficult to be confident that somebody is arguing from a balanced position when they post this kind of comment in an anti-bullying thread:
Quote:Your [sic] all self centered , sadistic pieces of crap who do not care about the effect of their actions or who they hurt. Thats why we have laws and rules, because people like you would **** over whoever you felt like if we didn't.
I seriously suggest you take some time away from your PC and enjoy life, go for a walk, maybe even talk to somebody professional who is trained to talk over your feelings with you.
It is a game, my friend. Please don't let it consume your life. |

Malcolm Shinhwa
Bad Touches
515
|
Posted - 2013.10.27 15:25:00 -
[26] - Quote
Lady Areola Fappington wrote: Here, bullying, at it's core, required forced nonconsensual involvement in an enviroment. Schoolkids can be bullied, because they cannot remove themselves from school. Workplace bullying exists because it's quite difficult for someone to up and change a job. Cyberbullying exists only in that social media has become a huge part of today's life, and isn't something easy to escape from.
oOReikaOo Michiko wrote: So you think just because we can quit EVE Online its not cyberbullying? Ridiculous. ... No where in this definition does it say "hey your not a victim if you can walk away". I am at work and my manager bullies me, but HEY its not bullying because I can quit my job!!! No your still being bullied, you should not have to quit your job , quit a game, or do ANYTHING because of another person. You are bullies.
Reading is fundamental. Hey CCP, please slush my fund like you did for SOMER Blink. |

Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Academy The ROC
1309
|
Posted - 2013.10.27 19:33:00 -
[27] - Quote
Going to go ahead and confirm that before I became a member and backer of the New Order, Erotica 1 doubled my isk because I played the game correctly, I am fully literate, and I was polite.
It was, in fact, her forthright, upfront and honest nature that persuaded me to see the New Order side of things.
Oh, and cyberbullying doesn't exist(in general, and certainly not in EVE), because the internet is an entirely voluntary participatory media. I will even cite EVE precedent. You actually have to make an effort to move away from a bumper, as per the "GM Response on miner bumping" before it can be considered griefing. In EVE, the onus is on you. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |

oOReikaOo Michiko
Koshaku Gentlemen's Agreement
175
|
Posted - 2013.10.27 20:54:00 -
[28] - Quote
Nomis Alexander wrote:Sorry to spam, but I've subsribed to the minerbumping.com thread in question, and I now have even bigger concerns over the credibility of the complaint and its source. It's difficult to be confident that somebody is arguing from a balanced position when they post this kind of comment in an anti-bullying thread: Quote:Your [sic] all self centered , sadistic pieces of crap who do not care about the effect of their actions or who they hurt. Thats why we have laws and rules, because people like you would **** over whoever you felt like if we didn't. I seriously suggest you take some time away from your PC and enjoy life, go for a walk, maybe even talk to somebody professional who is trained to talk over your feelings with you. It is a game, my friend. Please don't let it consume your life.
Please stop using the "its just a game" bit. This has nothing even to do with EVE, this is about the cyber bullying , EVE is simply the medium being used to do said cyberbullying. I am asking the medium (CCP) to not allow itself to used as a focus for bullying. |

Nomis Alexander
Haldskel Corporation Fortuna Alliance
8
|
Posted - 2013.10.27 21:18:00 -
[29] - Quote
oOReikaOo Michiko wrote:Please stop using the "its just a game" bit. This has nothing even to do with EVE, this is about the cyber bullying , EVE is simply the medium being used to do said cyberbullying. I am asking the medium (CCP) to not allow itself to used as a focus for bullying
The fatal flaw in your logic is that EvE is indeed a game.
|

Malcolm Shinhwa
Bad Touches
523
|
Posted - 2013.10.27 21:22:00 -
[30] - Quote
Nomis Alexander wrote:oOReikaOo Michiko wrote:Please stop using the "its just a game" bit. This has nothing even to do with EVE, this is about the cyber bullying , EVE is simply the medium being used to do said cyberbullying. I am asking the medium (CCP) to not allow itself to used as a focus for bullying The fatal flaw in your logic is that EvE is indeed a game.
Logic [snort] this is about the feels man. Hey CCP, please slush my fund like you did for SOMER Blink. |
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