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Sebastor Cane
The Outlet
59
|
Posted - 2013.10.27 12:34:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hello
I am going to train for one of these ships but i am not sure which one will be better.
I am operating at the very edge of highsec for frequent forays into lowsec/nullsec and i want to transport valuable stuff through highsec to my base but i dont want to ask for a ganking.
Questions
1. What is the largest cargo spaced blockade runner. 2. Could a blockade runner in highsec full of tech II missiles be a gank target. 3. Can an orca with the mwd/cloak trick move through highsec safetly if done properly.
4. I left Jita yesterday and i was locked up by scouts before the screen had even loaded. Has this only happened since they changed the undock/ gate jump mechanics.
My thanks for your help and your advise would be invaluable to me. |

Abdiel Kavash
Paladin Order Fidelas Constans
1514
|
Posted - 2013.10.27 12:41:00 -
[2] - Quote
Use courier contracts to haul stuff within highsec. Zero risk for you, no effort required, minimal costs (much less than what you could earn in the time it takes you to haul stuff yourself.) Train your char for pewpew ships. |

Skeln Thargensen
Alpha Sperglords
256
|
Posted - 2013.10.27 13:04:00 -
[3] - Quote
orca can't do the cloak/MWD trick.
however, the align/MWD trick works gate to gate (though not on undock for some reason) which cuts down travel time significantly.
you can fit a beast of a tank on it, DC, bulkheads and shield hardeners/rigs. well over 200EHP with a low skill alt. that's decent ISK tank so don't worry about your cargo unless it's mega valuable. freelance space bum |

My Little Pyongyang
State War Academy Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2013.10.27 13:16:00 -
[4] - Quote
I was going to suggest a brick tanked abaddon for high value cargo but you said T2 missiles.
Orca is your best bet in that case, you can hold a lot more than any blockade runner could ever hope for with a massive 200k+ ehp tank. You can also warp in 10 seconds pulsing an MWD but you will have to cram it on there. Use the meta 3 one.
Abdiel Kavash wrote:Use courier contracts to haul stuff within highsec. Zero risk for you, no effort required, minimal costs (much less than what you could earn in the time it takes you to haul stuff yourself.) Train your char for pewpew ships.
This is an even better choice. They will get it there safely and you can run many MANY courier contracts for the cost of an orca. They can move your valuables at no risk to yourself because of collateral.
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Sebastor Cane
The Outlet
59
|
Posted - 2013.10.27 15:09:00 -
[5] - Quote
Thanks for the answers, but i have one more.
If i want to take a number of ships fittings and missiles a long way. What is the maximum isk value that i should have in the hold assuming that im using a mwd/cloak trip with Max EHP
Thanks again |

Bibosikus
Aliastra Gallente Federation
157
|
Posted - 2013.10.27 15:33:00 -
[6] - Quote
The Orca's standard cargohold and its Fleet Hangar can both be scanned by would-be gankers to ascertain whether or not you've got stuff worth taking you out for. That said, it takes at least twenty Nados to gank a properly fitted Orca - that's a lot of isk investment and gangs that size aren't hanging about every day. And when they do, they're usually along the Jita <-> Amarr run (Niarja is infamous), or Jita <-> Rens. A scout is invaluable, or even another corp member in fleet with you, who can web your Orca as it aligns which can reduce time-to-warp by several long seconds. So start recruiting :)
Blockade Runners are unusual in that their cargoholds cannot be scanned. The non-cloaky versions have the biggest cargoholds and more low slots for expanders or tank. I think the Occator can reach about 39,000m3 but it has *no* tank and relying simply on +2 warp strength isn't a good idea.
If you really want a (relatively) safe ship, as well as some giggles, I'd suggest an Impel. It has 7 lows. With T2 and a couple of cheap faction hardeners, plus T2 Trimarks, you can fit an Impel with over 110,000 ehp and a sig radius of 160m which means even a gang of thirty Nados will die in a Concord fire before you pop. It'll only haul 5,000 m3 but if your "forays" are as frequent as you say, how much space are you really going to need?
The box said "Requires Windows-á2000 or better", so I installed Linux. |

Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
1679
|
Posted - 2013.10.27 23:35:00 -
[7] - Quote
Hmm. DSTs are a pretty poor choice. They can indeed be cargo scanned (only Blockade Runners get that immunity), they're slow, and they aren't that hard to take down if you're trying to haul a reasonable amount of cargo.
BRs all get ~10k m^3 of space if fit for max cargo. If that's enough for your purposes then just go for it; they move around high and low with almost total impunity if you're willing to actually pilot them. If that's not enough start looking at other options (whether that's an Orca, a freighter, or a hauling service). |

Sebastor Cane
The Outlet
59
|
Posted - 2013.10.27 23:41:00 -
[8] - Quote
Thanks for the help
My last question is this. If i had a fully fit and rigged Bestower in my orca ship bay. Could i fill it with missiles and they remain unscanned as they are in the bestower hold inside the Orca.
Also could i fit expensive mods on on that bestower and they remain un scanned.
Thanks |

Shaotuk
Sin City Enterprises
25
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Posted - 2013.10.28 02:39:00 -
[9] - Quote
Sebastor Cane wrote:Thanks for the help
My last question is this. If i had a fully fit and rigged Bestower in my orca ship bay. Could i fill it with missiles and they remain unscanned as they are in the bestower hold inside the Orca.
Also could i fit expensive mods on on that bestower and they remain un scanned.
Thanks
You cannot haul a ship with cargo inside its bays.
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IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
226
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Posted - 2013.10.28 04:23:00 -
[10] - Quote
Sebastor Cane wrote: 4. I left Jita yesterday and i was locked up by scouts before the screen had even loaded. Has this only happened since they changed the undock/ gate jump mechanics.
Something is wrong with your Eve client or internet connection if you're getting locked before the system can load.
After jumping through a gate you're cloaked for 60 seconds. Needless to say that's more than enough time for the next system to load, you to see what's at the gate and to decide what you're going to do.
After undocking you're not cloaked but you're invulnerable for 30 seconds and that should be more than enough for the system to load. Consider making an instant undock. It's basically a bookmark in a straight line a few hundred KM away from the station. You simply undock then warp to this bookmark then warp off. This makes it very difficult for someone to catch you at the undock.
Think of how many Tornadoes it'll take to kill your ship and will the loot that drops be worth more than those Tornadoes?.... If the answer is yes you might want to rethink how you're hauling it.
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Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
925
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 05:17:00 -
[11] - Quote
Bibosikus wrote:The Orca's standard cargohold and its Fleet Hangar can both be scanned by would-be gankers to ascertain whether or not you've got stuff worth taking you out for. That said, it takes at least twenty Nados to gank a properly fitted Orca - that's a lot of isk investment and gangs that size aren't hanging about every day. And when they do, they're usually along the Jita <-> Amarr run (Niarja is infamous), or Jita <-> Rens. A scout is invaluable, or even another corp member in fleet with you, who can web your Orca as it aligns which can reduce time-to-warp by several long seconds. So start recruiting :)
Blockade Runners are unusual in that their cargoholds cannot be scanned. The non-cloaky versions have the biggest cargoholds and more low slots for expanders or tank. I think the Occator can reach about 39,000m3 but it has *no* tank and relying simply on +2 warp strength isn't a good idea.
If you really want a (relatively) safe ship, as well as some giggles, I'd suggest an Impel. It has 7 lows. With T2 and a couple of cheap faction hardeners, plus T2 Trimarks, you can fit an Impel with over 110,000 ehp and a sig radius of 160m which means even a gang of thirty Nados will die in a Concord fire before you pop. It'll only haul 5,000 m3 but if your "forays" are as frequent as you say, how much space are you really going to need?
You can get 2 volleys off in a .5 or .6 system at about 13k a volley. So 9 or 10 Nado's tops.
Eve is Real |

Andrew Indy
Four Pillar Production Headshot Gaming
43
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 06:16:00 -
[12] - Quote
Just remember that speed is as good a tank as raw EHP.
If you are manually piloting a fairly fast ship there is very little time for a Gank to be setup ect. The 10km3 you can get from speedy/tanky Indys will carry a fairly large amount of Ammo and with a good fit you can warp pretty quickly and with a MWD/cloak they are pretty hard to catch.
I would personally only use Orca if I was moving a large volume or AFK APing, they are pretty slow and its a waste of your time. If you keep the cargo under 1 BiI you should be fine, even 2 Bill most likely.
Otherwise stick with something fast and cloaky.
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Jacob Holland
Weyland-Vulcan Industries
188
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Posted - 2013.10.28 08:06:00 -
[13] - Quote
Shaotuk wrote:You cannot haul a ship with cargo inside its bays.
I believe ammunition (like T2 missiles for example) are exempt from that rule... unless I missed a patch note recently. |

ZAKURELL0 LINDA
Black Scorpions Inc Circle-Of-Two
14
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 09:21:00 -
[14] - Quote
if u have to fly that ship into low/null, choose a BR. orca hauling is straightly HS only..... RIP Iron Lady |

Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
926
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 14:53:00 -
[15] - Quote
Andrew Indy wrote:Just remember that speed is as good a tank as raw EHP.
If you are manually piloting a fairly fast ship there is very little time for a Gank to be setup ect. The 10km3 you can get from speedy/tanky Indys will carry a fairly large amount of Ammo and with a good fit you can warp pretty quickly and with a MWD/cloak they are pretty hard to catch.
I would personally only use Orca if I was moving a large volume or AFK APing, they are pretty slow and its a waste of your time. If you keep the cargo under 1 BiI you should be fine, even 2 Bill most likely.
Otherwise stick with something fast and cloaky.
Just remember that gankers have webs and warp scrams. At least the ones that taught me do.
ZAKURELL0 LINDA wrote:if u have to fly that ship into low/null, choose a BR. orca hauling is straightly HS only.....
Yup. Eve is Real |

Amantus
Snuff Box
340
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 15:46:00 -
[16] - Quote
Skeln Thargensen wrote:orca can't do the cloak/MWD trick..
yes it can |

hmskrecik
TransMine Group German Information Network Alliance
117
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 17:07:00 -
[17] - Quote
Amantus wrote:Skeln Thargensen wrote:orca can't do the cloak/MWD trick.. yes it can yes, indeed it can |

Baggo Hammers
187
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Posted - 2013.10.28 18:20:00 -
[18] - Quote
hmskrecik wrote:Amantus wrote:Skeln Thargensen wrote:orca can't do the cloak/MWD trick.. yes it can yes, indeed it can
Yep it can. And a blockade runner has no need to do so. If you don't know where you're going, any road will take you there. |

Sebastor Cane
The Outlet
59
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 19:14:00 -
[19] - Quote
For the Orca to do the MWD/cloak trick does it need to have a certain fit or maxed skilled or can it be done straight out the box if you know what you are doing?
Thanks for the answer |

Batelle
RisingSuns
248
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 20:06:00 -
[20] - Quote
train both. However if you're not doing industry stuff, I would only do the orca if you have loads far above 10k m3 or need to move lots of rigged frigates and cruisers. If you're trading high value, low volume mods the blockade runner is sufficient.
Orca - move many rigged/fit ships at or below cruiser size, can carry a bunch of crap. Generally quite useful. Enough cargo capacity to support industrial operations that would be impossible with only 10k m3 of space or too risky in another industrial. Max tank can out-EHP a freighter, and for stuff you need freighter-sized cargoes for, you can just use courier contracts. In an orca its reasonable to go a few jumps, pick up over 100,000 m3 of stuff, and come back. With a shield tank and cargo fit you can afk around with 1bn in stuff and not be too worried. With bulkheads and a DC and active shield hardeners, you will be a very very tough target to kill.
Bloackade runner - ideal for moving very valuable stuff. Completely capable of moving a hangar full of varied t2 mods or more expensive stuff quickly. Useful everywhere. Fighting is Magic |

hmskrecik
TransMine Group German Information Network Alliance
118
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 20:12:00 -
[21] - Quote
Sebastor Cane wrote:For the Orca to do the MWD/cloak trick does it need to have a certain fit or maxed skilled or can it be done straight out the box if you know what you are doing? Needs to have certain fit. You need at least two agility improving modules or rigs and one fitting module/rig to be able to use MWD. Also Tech 2 cloak or compatible (Caldari Navy are cheap and good) is required as the ordinary one gives too big speed penalty. |

Baggo Hammers
188
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 20:31:00 -
[22] - Quote
If you really don't know, try a blockade runner first as they are much cheaper. They are by far the safest way to transport anything under 10k m^3. If you don't know where you're going, any road will take you there. |

Bibosikus
Aliastra Gallente Federation
158
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 20:38:00 -
[23] - Quote
Cipher Jones wrote: You can get 2 volleys off in a .5 or .6 system at about 13k a volley. So 9 or 10 Nado's tops.
Sure, if all your Nado pilots are max skilled with 2 x 5% damage implants..
(and the boats are T2-fitted at around 100m isk each)
(and the target is absolutely stationary with respect to all aggressors)
(and everyone remembers to overheat)
Etc etc..
Then you can achieve just under 13k alpha. Hopefully.
Doesn't leave a lot of room for error  The box said "Requires Windows-á2000 or better", so I installed Linux. |

Termy Rockling
EVE University Ivy League
87
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 20:55:00 -
[24] - Quote
Firstly no-one will know what you are hauling, and secondly no-one will care about shipload of t2 missiles. |

Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
926
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 21:20:00 -
[25] - Quote
Bibosikus wrote:Cipher Jones wrote: You can get 2 volleys off in a .5 or .6 system at about 13k a volley. So 9 or 10 Nado's tops.
Sure, if all your Nado pilots are max skilled with 2 x 5% damage implants.. (and the boats are T2-fitted at around 100m isk each) (and the target is absolutely stationary with respect to all aggressors) (and everyone remembers to overheat) Etc etc.. Then you can achieve just under 13k alpha. Hopefully. Doesn't leave a lot of room for error 
Just under, but the way it works is that concord doesn't alpha every ganker at once. So everyone will get off 2 volleys, a bunch will get off 3, and some maybe even 4. You're looking at 300K EHP easy with 10 tornados fit with t1 guns. If someone sacrifices a noob ship to draw concord off to a belt, its 19 seconds before they even show up and start shooting the gankers.
You can drink milk without drinking chocklate milk, but you can't drink choclate milk without drinking milk. https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=bHLdYVELWrQ
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