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Brannor McThife
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Posted - 2006.02.06 13:32:00 -
[1]
Since joining EvE several months back, I have slowly started to understand just how much ISK there is in the EvE universe. One of the choking moments was today, when I saw a Nighthawk BPO get sold for 45 BILLION ISK.
So, where does this money come from?
Well, the primary sources of ISK are, to the best of my knowledge, Mission Rewards/bonuses, and rat bounties. Yes, you could generate money if you sold your ore/minerals directly to NPC corps, but nobody does that.
So...in effect, billions and billions of ISK have been, and are being generated from nothingness. Is this not a problem?
Once apon a time, L4 missions gave out 2-3 times as much ISK as they do now, so people farmed them. People still do, but they're nowhere near as lucrative. So people rat and do complexes in 0.0. This can now easily match and surpass the ISK rewards (read: creation) of mission running.
What ISK sinks are there really? POS equipment? T1 BPOs? Ammo bought from NPCs?
Question is... is there perhaps...too much ISK in EvE? Too much ISK is what drives those T2 prices up, because someone out there WILL have the ISK to pay close on 1000% markup.
I would think that CCP are trying to slow down the rate of ISK creation (creation = money from 'nothing') by reducing rat bounties, but are there enough sinks to suck the money out as well, and bring prices down - because when there isn't ISK available to buy stuff at excessively high prices, then the seller will have to drop his price or go out of business.
No, this is not a knock at the T2 market...rather a concern that EvE could become flooded with ISK. Maybe reduce all bounties (0.0 - 1.0) and improve item drops, thereby reducing the rate at which ISK enters the world, yet increase monetary circulation. This would, in a weird way, change the value of the ISK.
*shrug*
-G
Dulce bellum inexpertis... |
Kashkavien
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Posted - 2006.02.06 13:37:00 -
[2]
Nope
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Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2006.02.06 13:38:00 -
[3]
Inflation hasn't gotten too bad yet. There are lots of ISK sinks. The devs have said that it isn't a problem ATM, or they would fix it.
--
Proud member of the [23].
The Tachikomas are DEAD! Click sig for video.
The Tachikomas won't stop tossing things at me!!!!11!!oneeleventy -Ductoris
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2006.02.06 13:41:00 -
[4]
No, what drives T2 prices is limited production and a severely nerfed production system.
Digital Communist> The Jin-Mei are probably more profficient in training for Tofu and Noodles than Spaceship Command |
Brannor McThife
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Posted - 2006.02.06 13:44:00 -
[5]
Another thought...
All these bounties... they're paid by Concorde yes? Who funds Concorde? Do all 4 empires? Is that why you don't get bounties for killing ships of empire factions, because Concorde has to maintain a neutral stance?
I think it's time for a recession... Concorde is generating more digital money than it has Morphite to back it up with.
Devalue the ISK I say!
-G
Dulce bellum inexpertis... |
x racer
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Posted - 2006.02.06 13:44:00 -
[6]
I think what your asking here is the overall effect of inflation in eve.
Not really sure though cuz your post comes off as a bit of a whine about the people that have played well, and hard, for a long time to accumulate a fat wallet.
Though theres several sentences in the post that end in a question mark, they seem rhetorical.
Can you please rephrase your rant in the form of a question?
My personal opinion is that inflation in eve is very well managed. Also, most people lack basic knowledge of the laisse-faire style of the eve economy as its not a model that is actually found anywhere in the real world.
thanks, I look forward to replying to an actual question
x
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Khajit Smitty
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Posted - 2006.02.06 13:44:00 -
[7]
 Originally by: Maya Rkell
No, what drives T2 prices is limited production and a severely nerfed production system.
And the fact that people are willing to pay those prices !!
Proudly South African and Recruiting !! |
Khajit Smitty
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Posted - 2006.02.06 13:47:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Brannor McThife
Devalue the ISK I say!
-G
Methinks you should go hide now !
Proudly South African and Recruiting !! |
Snake Jankins
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Posted - 2006.02.06 13:53:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Snake Jankins on 06/02/2006 13:57:21
There are a lot of isk sinks.
E.g. ship losses, ammunition, market taxes and fees, pos fuel ...
a hac loss with fitting about 200 mil now
a t2 fitted bs loss at least 90 mil ( fitting + insurance for the new ship )
an elite frig with t2 fitting 15-20 mil
killed indis with expensive freight, covetors with strip-miners-2 ...
so many billions isk destroyed every day. edit: Check some killboards.
___________
'Only ships can be assembled, this is a Frigate.' |
Syrec
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Posted - 2006.02.06 13:54:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Maya Rkell
No, what drives T2 prices is limited production and a severely nerfed production system.
\
Correct. T2 prices are because CCP releases a very very small amount of BPOs that random people win at chance to become the richest people in EVE without any skill at all, and then many of the very few BPO owners cartel it up and raise prices through the roof.
People arent willing to pay, they dont want to. They HAVE to because of limited BPO. T2 isnt a free and open market. It's a severely limited market by CCP because of BPO numbers.
MAny more BPOs = prices would go way down, and that alone PROVES that these t2 prices aren't the willing price. If they were then more BPOs would = prices staying the same.
Too bad so sad. release more BPOs! down with the cartels!!!! revoltuion! revolution!!!!!!
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Keta Min
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Posted - 2006.02.06 13:58:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Snake Jankins
Edited by: Snake Jankins on 06/02/2006 13:57:21
There are a lot of isk sinks.
E.g. ship losses, ammunition, market taxes and fees, pos fuel ...
a hac loss with fitting about 200 mil now
a t2 fitted bs loss at least 90 mil ( fitting + insurance for the new ship )
an elite frig with t2 fitting 15-20 mil
killed indis with expensive freight, covetors with strip-miners-2 ...
so many billions isk destroyed every day. edit: Check some killboards.
wts clue. ship destruction is a huge isk generator.
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Khajit Smitty
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Posted - 2006.02.06 14:08:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Snake Jankins
Edited by: Snake Jankins on 06/02/2006 13:57:21
There are a lot of isk sinks.
E.g. ship losses, ammunition, market taxes and fees, pos fuel ...
a hac loss with fitting about 200 mil now
a t2 fitted bs loss at least 90 mil ( fitting + insurance for the new ship )
an elite frig with t2 fitting 15-20 mil
killed indis with expensive freight, covetors with strip-miners-2 ...
so many billions isk destroyed every day. edit: Check some killboards.
Erm anything T2 aint an ISK sink as profits from its sale go to the player, and at present those profits can be up 300% of its production value.
Insurance contracts,buying from NPC's etc are ISK sinks.
I dont feel that there is any problem with the ISK value at the moment, just recently the spawn rates stopped for asteroids the direct result is trit jumped from 1.2+- to 1.8+- per unit (pretty sure CCP did this intentioally to create market inflation). Also the new ships Titans/Motherships cost billions to construct and fly.
Proudly South African and Recruiting !! |
Khajit Smitty
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Posted - 2006.02.06 14:13:00 -
[13]
The T2 market is what needs attention and thankfully Oveur has noticed this !
- oh and i think Eris funds Concord
Proudly South African and Recruiting !! |
Sirilonwe
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Posted - 2006.02.06 14:23:00 -
[14]
Buying from NPC's isn't an ISK sink. You trade an item for another. If you resell this item, you get your money back. Buying a HAC isn't a ISK sink. It's a money transfer. It maybe a sink for you, but the overall ingame money doesn't change at all.
Known sinks:
- implant destruction upon pod explosion
- clones
- insurance
- ship destruction (modules aren't insured)
____________________________________
Free ISP users, read this if you have connections problems |
Pytria Le'Danness
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Posted - 2006.02.06 14:24:00 -
[15]
There is also a hidden ISK sink: people who retire their characters, get banned and similar. The wealth these people have is lost.
Also, since many more people join the game every day the market keeps expanding - as does the supply to fill the market. How this works out in the end I do not want to analyze, fact is that except for the T2 prices gear sold at about a constant price.
The better loot drops compared with pre-RMR might play a role here as well - in the long run I see the prices for named gear drop unless the growing demand makes up for it.
Overall, things seem to be pretty well, except the T2 market which is way overpriced (supply and demand I assume).
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The Wizz117
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Posted - 2006.02.06 14:24:00 -
[16]
macrominers mine
they build t1 modules wich people with t2 bpo's buy to refine and build t2 stuff, the isk macromienrs make with this they sell on ebay wich people buy to buy t2 bpo's
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haniblecter
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Posted - 2006.02.06 14:39:00 -
[17]
Edited by: haniblecter on 06/02/2006 14:39:20
Ive played 6 months now and hte price of tier 1 adn 2 BS's has been flat.
In fact, I dont have to post anything. EVE gives you all the tools you need to check inflation with the excellent graphs that come wiht each and every Mod on the market.
Skillbooks have become a massive ISK sink now. The capitol ship, carrier, dread, and all the capitol mods skill books cost hundreds of millions. Me thinks 50-100 billion has been dropped otu of circulation because of these and hte BPO's for the ships. Dont forget about market/broker costs, that's MASSIVE ISK sink.
I have complete trust in CCP that everything is working out perfectly. This economy is the most solid I've seen.
On a side note, the worst run economy is Anarchy Online. I left the shard (they have only one, much like EVE) the richest man, easily. I came back 1.5 years later to find that the 20mill I saved was something a newb got as pity money. You needed billions to be able to do anything.
Contrary to EVE, where prices have appaerntly stayed the same since launch.
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Sancho Matar
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Posted - 2006.02.06 14:56:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Sancho Matar on 06/02/2006 14:57:18
Originally by: Sirilonwe
Buying from NPC's isn't an ISK sink.
Yes it is. Buying from NPC is the main Isk sink i think (skill, bpo ....)
Originally by: Sirilonwe
Buying a HAC isn't a ISK sink. It's a money transfer.
True as HAC can only be build and sell by PC
Originally by: Sirilonwe
It maybe a sink for you, but the overall ingame money doesn't change at all.
Very true, If u understand this i dont know why u state ur first sentence :P
Originally by: Sirilonwe
Known sinks:
- implant destruction upon pod explosion
Wheen an implant is destroy no money go with it out of game so it's nothing more than an implant sink.
Originally by: Sirilonwe
- clones
True
Originally by: Sirilonwe
- insurance
Yes if the insurance run over otherwise it's an isk generator.
Originally by: Sirilonwe
- ship destruction (modules aren't insured)
No, same logic as implant.
All of this is if we agree about the definition of an Isk Sink :
"Something that decreasing the total ammount of isk in game"
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Snake Jankins
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Posted - 2006.02.06 15:11:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Snake Jankins on 06/02/2006 15:14:14
Originally by: Keta Min
wts clue. ship destruction is a huge isk generator.
Ok, you're right, it's selling a ship to a npc buyer.  (insurance contract costs on the other side are an isk sink)
___________
'Only ships can be assembled, this is a Frigate.' |
Nero Scuro
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Posted - 2006.02.06 15:14:00 -
[20]
Yes, it's starting to become a problem. Some people have so much ISK that it is literally impossible to hurt them - they gain so much ISK for doing nothing from their investments that they can't match the gain of ISK with their own stupidity in losing ships. That should never happen.
But it will always happen in a world which has NPCs fueling the ISK collection and removal. CCP are the only ones who can affect it, because they control the ISK inputs and sinks. But where do they draw the line? Too many ISK sinks and you keep the mega-hardcore in line but leave those who don't grind 23/7 destitute. Too little and the mega-hardcore because super rich (as they are now - and don't you dare say 45bil is not super-rich).
My suggestion - ISK tax. The more ISK you own, the greater the tax, starting when you reach 500mil ISK (so as not to screw over the newbs). It can be avoided, true, by spreading ISK across multiple alts, but it's a start...
___
The world isn't going to end; we're not that lucky... |
Cabadrin
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Posted - 2006.02.06 15:15:00 -
[21]
The biggest isk sinks are the Outposts, which require billions of isk to build and don;t generate much isk on their own. Following those would be the BPOs for capital ships and the ships themselves, especially motherships and titans. All of these things aren;t just cool, they're also huge isk sinks for alliances.
_______________________________________________
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Slink Grinsdikild
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Posted - 2006.02.06 15:20:00 -
[22]
What worries me is the huge gap in ISK gain from one proffession to another. L4 missions are my main gripe and the fact that you can run missions in lowsec without ever worrying about pirates.. and CCP are moving all agent missions to deadspace in Kali. 
I love piracy and PvP in general but unless you're a gate camping lamer then there isn't any money to be made, only ISK I made this week was 2 player bounties I collected and that didn't amount to much. 
.___.
{O,o}
/)__)
-"-"-
O RLY?
YA RLY! - Imaran
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DazWozUK
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Posted - 2006.02.06 15:36:00 -
[23]
I dont believe there is too much ISK in eve. I have been playing for 2.5yrs now and the most i have reached is 1billion isk. But the things that I havn't got and would like such as a freighter, navy issue raven, destroyer, pos all cost billions of isk. There was a time when 1 million isk seemed unreachable to me, now I can earn that from popping 1 npc.
I think the market is balanced just fine, yes there is a lot of isk out there but the cost of equipment as you level up reflects this.
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Alexis DeTocqueville
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Posted - 2006.02.06 15:52:00 -
[24]
An increase in money without an equivalent increase in the amount of products/resources/etc. is the textbook definition of inflation.
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Danton Marcellus
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Posted - 2006.02.06 16:01:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Danton Marcellus on 06/02/2006 16:05:16
Originally by: Syrec
Originally by: Maya Rkell
No, what drives T2 prices is limited production and a severely nerfed production system.
\
Correct. T2 prices are because CCP releases a very very small amount of BPOs that random people win at chance to become the richest people in EVE without any skill at all, and then many of the very few BPO owners cartel it up and raise prices through the roof.
People arent willing to pay, they dont want to. They HAVE to because of limited BPO. T2 isnt a free and open market. It's a severely limited market by CCP because of BPO numbers.
MAny more BPOs = prices would go way down, and that alone PROVES that these t2 prices aren't the willing price. If they were then more BPOs would = prices staying the same.
Too bad so sad. release more BPOs! down with the cartels!!!! revoltuion! revolution!!!!!!
While you're at it give everyone unlimited minerals too.
Originally by: Nero Scuro
Yes, it's starting to become a problem. Some people have so much ISK that it is literally impossible to hurt them - they gain so much ISK for doing nothing from their investments that they can't match the gain of ISK with their own stupidity in losing ships. That should never happen.
Them knowing their enemy has equally deep coffers it will still hurt them knowing they lose their buffer, everything is relative. If you by hurt them mean making them go broke in a month and leaving the game then you may need to seek council...
Remind me about The Maze.
I'm Danton Marcellus and I approve of this message. |
Gerbil Intaki
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Posted - 2006.02.06 16:06:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Nero Scuro
My suggestion - ISK tax. The more ISK you own, the greater the tax, starting when you reach 500mil ISK (so as not to screw over the newbs). It can be avoided, true, by spreading ISK across multiple alts, but it's a start...
Sounds like a good idea alternative in order to avoid expliotation would be to total the amounts on one account rather than character or have it as a corporate tax. Another alternative is to charge a player to player ISK transfer tax you get a limit on how much you can send in 24 hours anything over that gets increasing taxed.
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Hast
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Posted - 2006.02.06 16:24:00 -
[27]
WTS: T2 ISK TREE
Give miners a log off timer
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HippoKing
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Posted - 2006.02.06 16:25:00 -
[28]
you forgot a major ISK creator: insurance
sigs of the 23/24/25 hijack just as well -eris
yarrrr, i shall retake my sig -HippoKing
Not a chance, our 1337 sig haXx0r sk1llz are too powerful! - Wrangler
Ho-Ho-Hooooooo, Merry Saturday!11 - Immy |
Donis Ardis
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Posted - 2006.02.06 16:29:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Kashkavien
Nope
You are quite correct. :)
In response to the OP, you may see big isk deals go down,etc but what you dont know, is if thats an individual, corporation or alliance doing the buying. If you have a dedicated alliance with a goal or aim then raising isk is not a problem. With the HUGE isk sinks that are in the game right now, 45bill is only a tiny amount of isk to what a dedicated alliance can achieve.
When looking at these tasks as an individual, its very easy to be overwhelmed, but break it down to a focused group of individuals then anything is achievable.
Speculating on market is a skill in itself, and quite a substancial ammount of isk can be made just by buying and selling. Quite often you make more on the market by doing this, than if you had the Tech2 BPO yourself.
Taxing a characters wallet, just for the sake of being an isk sink is a silly idea.
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F4ze
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Posted - 2006.02.06 16:34:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Brannor McThife
....One of the choking moments was today, when I saw a Nighthawk BPO get sold for 45 BILLION ISK.
45 Billion ??? 
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Rawne Karrde
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Posted - 2006.02.06 16:52:00 -
[31]
I don't remember who it was but in market discussions some totured soul went and looked up the market data for capital ship and component bpo's that were purchased off the market and in a 6 month time, over 1.2 trillion isk was spent and left the game that way alone.
as for isk sinks hitting every tom **** and harry for isk all the time just gets annoying. I think CCP has a good way of doing it, isk flows up and so its just easier and ofcourse impacts less people to just make the top guys pay through the nose.
I'm not even close to being one of those and I've been hit with the nasty skill prices for carriers etc as well as buyin capital ship bpo's myself.
Don't confuse supply/demand market forces with inflation.
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Moghydin
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Posted - 2006.02.06 17:35:00 -
[32]
Originally by: x racer
Not really sure though cuz your post comes off as a bit of a whine about the people that have played well, and hard, for a long time to accumulate a fat wallet.
Yoy mean won the lottery?
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Donis Ardis
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Posted - 2006.02.06 17:55:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Moghydin
Originally by: x racer
<snip>
Yoy mean won the lottery?
Not sure what you mean there.. is your smart remark indicating that the only way to make huge amounts of isk only possible by winning a Tech2 BPO?
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Gretchen Dawntreader
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Posted - 2006.02.06 18:06:00 -
[34]
Yeah, you dig a hole, drop a bag of money in, then make sure you don't walk over or near the spot and kill the sapling...then you get a money tree you can shake for money bags...
Oh wait, that was Animal Crossing. Nevermind...
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PhotoJerk
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Posted - 2006.02.06 18:13:00 -
[35]
give me a break, those suggesting we tax the rich are just insane. You get what you put in.. You really sound like a democrat w/ this ideology. The day they start taxing on type of player more than another = you will ruin the game.
There are plenty of ways to make money and inflation really isnt a major problem.
Oh wait, why dont we just tax the rich and send welfare checks to the poor.
This is a hard core MMO, get over it.
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Lisa Run
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Posted - 2006.02.06 18:14:00 -
[36]
Edited by: Lisa Run on 06/02/2006 18:16:30
Originally by: Donis Ardis
Originally by: Moghydin
Originally by: x racer
<snip>
Yoy mean won the lottery?
Not sure what you mean there.. is your smart remark indicating that the only way to make huge amounts of isk only possible by winning a Tech2 BPO?
If you have luck it's the way with the least effort. E.g. if I had been hunting for 6 hours non-stop to finance my pvp ships and then a lucky T2 BPO winner (or much worse: isk buyer or even an isk buyer, who invested in t2 BPOs) told me that mission rewards and bounties are too high, then I wouldn't be very amused.
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Sai Maru
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Posted - 2006.02.06 18:24:00 -
[37]
Unless I missed it, I think one of the largest ISK sinks hasn't been mentioned yet...
the cost of corp. alliances and wars.
from the players guide
Quote:
All wars that do not involve an alliance as aggressor or victim are classified as normal corporation war. Normal corporation wars cost 1,000,000 ISK * (the number of wars the corporation is currently involved in) to initiate. The update cost is the 1,000,000 ISK.
For wars declared by an alliance, the starting cost is 1,000,000 ISK * (the number of corporations in the alliance) * (1 + the number of wars the alliance is involved in currently). Each week the war goes on a new bill is calculated using the same formula and issued to the alliance.
Any CEO with the skill Empire Control trained to level 5 can form an alliance. Forming an alliance costs 1,000,000,000 ISK. Alliances also have a maintenance fee of 1,000,000 ISK per month per corporation in the alliance. That means that an alliance of 10 corporations needs to pay 10,000,000 ISK each month to have access to alliances actions. The Executor Corporation receives and pays the bills.
Just think about some of the larger alliances out there and the wars that they wage. The cost is probably peanuts to them, but to me, damn, that's a lot of ISK.
just my .02 ISK
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Lurtz
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Posted - 2006.02.06 18:35:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Sirilonwe
Buying from NPC's isn't an ISK sink. You trade an item for another. If you resell this item, you get your money back. Buying a HAC isn't a ISK sink. It's a money transfer. It maybe a sink for you, but the overall ingame money doesn't change at all.
Known sinks:
- implant destruction upon pod explosion
- clones
- insurance
- ship destruction (modules aren't insured)
It appears you don't understand what is being discussed, Buying from NPC is an isk sink. You many sell and get your maoney back , *but it is from another player* the total isk in game is reduced.
Implant destruction, no no isk has left the game. It may cost you to replace them, but as they are not bought from npc it is merely a transfer not a sink
Clones are indeed a sink
Insurance is not for many players, unless 2/3 or the time the insurance expires uncollected it brings more into the game than it takes out. Value may leave, but raw currency is created.
Ship destruction, see insurance. Value may leave, but isk is created.
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Sergeant Spot
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Posted - 2006.02.06 18:43:00 -
[39]
While everyone seems to focus on the extreme high end items, on more modest items there has been significant DEFLATION in recent months.
Remember 3isk Trit?? Trit is not as low as it was when I started Eve, but its getting there (Was in the low 1.2 region when I started looking at mineral prices). Many named NPC items have dropped, be they modulated lasers, or local hull expanders.
But the T2 BPOs will always be expensive as long as they are rare.
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Adam C
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Posted - 2006.02.06 18:45:00 -
[40]
game is progressive m8. where u been?
u know titans are out now, dont u?
wts: Flamingo, Recon Interceptors
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Imran
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Posted - 2006.02.06 18:49:00 -
[41]
I have a combined total of 25 mil between 2x 2yr old chars...send me isk please.
No, seriously...please. lol
EwokPoacher: Why hate Gallente?
Blackest Sheep: Because we are beautiful |
Worc
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Posted - 2006.02.06 18:58:00 -
[42]
just send me your isk and I'll promise not to use it, that'll help....plz?
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BoinKlasik
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Posted - 2006.02.06 19:00:00 -
[43]
I think Econ majors shoudl have to play EVE as part of a case study in economics. We have so many of the chereicteristics of a real economy its frightening...or just really really cool!
*doh, I broke my edited sig :/* *cries*
The Damsel is no longer in distress. She was rescued enough times that she got the hint and installed better security systems at home.
Fixed it for you. Oh, btw, yarr! 
Didn't I tell you? The damsel moved in with me, we're having a great time. - Wrangler |
MissileRus
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Posted - 2006.02.06 20:24:00 -
[44]
Edited by: MissileRus on 06/02/2006 20:26:01
Dont know how fat the everyones wallet is, but mines pretty empty so i can be the isk sink. Why bother to make the devs spend time on something that can be solved in a few clicks?.. They need their time!
So the isk that goes from your wallet to mine is dev time, think of it as if your buying more time for the dev team! Everyones happy, you loose isk, i gain isk(lazy) dev gains time = win!1
Corps that has too mutch isk, dont they usualy go to war and spend it all right away like chicks going on a shopping spree anyway? Maybe we need chicks implemented, theres a great money sink! That takes dev time though, so i could be the chick too! your wallet happy and slim, me wallet happy and fat, devs happy!
And since i dont like big corps that mutch, dont worry about the isk fueling wars or being put to bad use.. unless they get me and asks for a ransom later.. but hey thats concords problem!
So theres no problem i solved them all  (devs can thank me later for getting them more time, beer will do)
oh and i promise not to buy stuff ofc!
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Oku Kee'lus
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Posted - 2006.02.06 21:06:00 -
[45]
Never mind the poor, or the rich. To hell with supply and demand... the most scary thing about this thread is that apparently, 3/5 of the EVE population doesn't know what a 'money sink' is
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Lardarz B'stard
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Posted - 2006.02.06 21:13:00 -
[46]
i know someone with 80bn
he swears its all from mining
maggot for the should have won |
Gronsak
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Posted - 2006.02.06 21:27:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Lardarz B'stard
i know someone with 80bn
he swears its all from mining
i know someone who controls 5 minin barges and a apoc to tank spawns. AND 2 iteron 5s.
afaik he uses 2 PC and a laptop for the lot
he says on average he makes over 100mils an hour. and one time he did a 48h shift only taking the DT for breaks. a la 5bils isk there.
how people can play the game like that is beyond me though.
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Moghydin
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Posted - 2006.02.06 22:06:00 -
[48]
Edited by: Moghydin on 06/02/2006 22:06:24
Originally by: Donis Ardis
Originally by: Moghydin
Originally by: x racer
<snip>
Yoy mean won the lottery?
Not sure what you mean there.. is your smart remark indicating that the only way to make huge amounts of isk only possible by winning a Tech2 BPO?
I'm not saying that it the ONLY way in game, but it's the only way to do this without "working" in Eve instead of playing. Surely, you can mine a fortune if you forget about your RL and start sleepng on the DT's only. And even if you do, it's not the ISK that growes on trees. The ISK that growes on trees is the ISK that earned from Tech II production. It's the megaprofits out of nowhere actually. And it's influence on the game is hard to underestimate.
Imagine 2 entities at war. 1 Has lots of tech II BPO's other doesn't. Now sooner or later they reach the point when the wallet will have to be "refilled" due to PvP losses. Now, the entyty without tech II BPO's will have either to mine or to rat, which takes time and is actually withdrawing it from PvP (this activity can also be easily interrupted). The other entity is using the BPO's and producing tech II staff - takes less time (I mean playing time, not actual time), much harder to disrupt, huge rewards. All this while continuing PvP as usuall. Now guess who will win the war.
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Donis Ardis
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Posted - 2006.02.06 22:51:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Moghydin
The ISK that growes on trees is the ISK that earned from Tech II production. It's the megaprofits out of nowhere actually. And it's influence on the game is hard to underestimate.
This could not be more wrong. ISK from mining, NPCs + ship insurance to a degree is isk out of nowhere. Isk from T2 production is isk that is already in the system. Very few Tech2 BPO's give "megaprofits" and profit from the good ones ranges from 12-25mill per DAY. This does not include the effects of logistics/market competition (market hub price wars).
The true infulence on the game(market in reality) are the big market players, the resellers, this is where the money is. Buy and sell without undocking.
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Cmdr Sy
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Posted - 2006.02.06 23:06:00 -
[50]
Most of the skillbooks on my next shopping list will cost tens of millions of ISK each. That'll sink my ISK for sure.
Hegemonising Swarm Objects / von Neumann Probes |
Nobler
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Posted - 2006.02.06 23:10:00 -
[51]
One way to make isks in EvE is not to spend them. You mention some of the isks sinks being clones, destroyed ships, and insurance.
I have some rules that I follow to maximize my profits in EvE-
1. Insure every ship in case you get ganked. If you can't afford the insurance, don't fly the ship or don't even buy it.
2. Don't fly a ship you cannot afford to loose. I see to many n00bs flying around in ships they have no business being in. If you buy a Raven then you should be able to replace it if you loose it the same day, if you can't don't fly it. Everything comes with patience and work. Nothing in this game is handed to you on a silver platter.
3. Fly safe. Don't go through space less than .5, if you do be prepared to be podded. If you can't handle that see items 1 and 2. If you goto 0.0 be prepared to loose your ship and pod. If you can't afford that then don't go there. I know the GM's are trying to get more people out of Empire..the solution here is read #2.
4. Almost like number 2, don't fight in a ship you can't afford to loose.
5. Teamwork will earn you isks. Yes mining is boring, but I have been in corps where they pay $2 million a can, even if it was loaded with veldspare.
Also- Have someone bring a well fitted mining barge, someone with a frighter, and someone to stand guard and not go AFK on you. Either refine the ores and sell them somewhere at good market value, or just sell the ore at good market value and divide the profits up. A full can of kernit can easily yield a 100 million if you sell it in the right place.
6. Use warp stabs and use book marks in the sectors you are operating in. If you can't fit a warp stab in favor of another module then see item #2. If you don't make time making bookmarks then don't whine about ship loss and insurance being isks sinks. Also armour and hull repairers come in handy instead of paying for the repairs.. These items are relativley cheap and can be fitted. Then undocked, used, then unfitted again. It may take a little time but better then spending 1 million isks+ on repairs!
7. Usually building your ship or modules can be done cheaper then buying them already built. Someone in your corp should be a producer and usually these characters will build a ship or module if you supply the minerals, bpc, and sometimes factory fee. For instance my Ferox only cost me 12 million. I bought the Zydrine and Nocixum. Then I mined the rest and recycled loot to get the rest of it..my corp already had a bpc for the Ferox and I wasn't charged for that.
My point being you can't save/make money if you keep spending it. Specializing in one or two areas will save you a lot of money in skill books, ships, and related equipment. People that have been playing this game for a while that have isks don't have to spend them execpt on consumbles.
Now since I have offered my advice I feel that I can say now that MSYDS is recruiting miners. If you are interested please evemail me, convo me, or join MSYDS recruitment in game.
Regards,
Nobler
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DJTheBaron
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Posted - 2006.02.06 23:11:00 -
[52]
complain about 5 all you want but chekc our killboards, we are a huge money sink to eve
and look at faction modules etc, billions of isk fitted to billion isk ships
blueprint avalability is the t2 chokepoint tbh
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Scum, your all scum. |
Chade Malloy
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Posted - 2006.02.06 23:22:00 -
[53]
Edited by: Chade Malloy on 06/02/2006 23:23:05
Originally by: Gronsak
i know someone who controls 5 minin barges and a apoc to tank spawns. AND 2 iteron 5s.
afaik he uses 2 PC and a laptop for the lot
he says on average he makes over 100mils an hour. and one time he did a 48h shift only taking the DT for breaks. a la 5bils isk there.
how people can play the game like that is beyond me though.
Making isk isnt the real problem...not getting bored while doing it is.
I know i could make ~ 80mil per hour with two accounts...but guess what, my wallet holds only enough money atm for a spare BS + equipment.
I could raise the money to build five dreads in the time i need to train for them, but why should i do that? Dreads = boring and easy targets in fleet battles. Flying fast inties is cheaper and much more fun. And - interesting enough - Intie prices are kinda stable or even lower than 6 months b4.
You won¦t find many pvp¦ers with lots of money on their hand, and combat ops can take a lot of time if you are searching a region for a good fight (= no time to mine or doing mission) .
Basically the industrialists build...and build and build...so we have more targets to blow up. Just a matter of personal preferances, they have their fun amassing insane amounts of (useless) isk, we have the fun in the actual competition on the battlefield. And you can still win any given fight with T1 equipment (and the right setup)
Originally by: Oveur
Jesus Christ. The Freighter ate the Stargate god and the Dreadnought didn't!
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Alexis DeTocqueville
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Posted - 2006.02.06 23:26:00 -
[54]
Originally by: PhotoJerk
give me a break, those suggesting we tax the rich are just insane. You get what you put in.. You really sound like a democrat w/ this ideology. The day they start taxing on type of player more than another = you will ruin the game.
There are plenty of ways to make money and inflation really isnt a major problem.
Before you make an even bigger fool of yourself: The Federal Reserve determines monetary policy in the United States, not Congress. So please, stop posting.
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Oventoasted
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Posted - 2006.02.06 23:30:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Gronsak
Originally by: Lardarz B'stard
i know someone with 80bn
he swears its all from mining
i know someone who controls 5 minin barges and a apoc to tank spawns. AND 2 iteron 5s.
afaik he uses 2 PC and a laptop for the lot
he says on average he makes over 100mils an hour. and one time he did a 48h shift only taking the DT for breaks. a la 5bils isk there.
how people can play the game like that is beyond me though.
who is this friend i want to worship him as a god!
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MMM MMM toasted |
Siren Shiva
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Posted - 2006.02.07 00:04:00 -
[56]
Edited by: Siren Shiva on 07/02/2006 00:03:58
/emote waters her ISK tree.
Lyticus > I freaking hate you!
Siren Shiva > I love you too <3
RAWRRR!!!11 - Imaran
(Kaemonn Is Teh Suck)
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Klasanov
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Posted - 2006.02.07 00:05:00 -
[57]
Keta Min:
Quote:
wts clue. ship destruction is a huge isk generator.
Actually, ship destruction just puts ISK into the hands of a producer.
Sirilonwe:
Quote:
Buying from NPC's isn't an ISK sink. You trade an item for another. If you resell this item, you get your money back. Buying a HAC isn't a ISK sink. It's a money transfer. It maybe a sink for you, but the overall ingame money doesn't change at all.
No. Buying from NPCs IS an ISK sink.
To illustrate by example...
There is 1000 ISK in the game, and player A has 500 ISK, and player B has 500 ISK, Player B buys 100 ISK worth of materials, produces something and sells it to player A for 200 ISK.
Player B will now have 600 ISK, and player A will have only 300 ISK. 900 ISk exists in the game. It is a sink.
Implants are only sinks if its bought from an NPC corp. Same with buying modules. Just because you lose the ISK, doesn't mean it went out of the game. For something to be an ISK sink, it has to disappear from the game, not simply end up in someone else's hands.
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Kel Shek
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Posted - 2006.02.07 00:21:00 -
[58]
Quote:
Yes, it's starting to become a problem. Some people have so much ISK that it is literally impossible to hurt them - they gain so much ISK for doing nothing from their investments that they can't match the gain of ISK with their own stupidity in losing ships. That should never happen.
your kidding right?
it would be far more "something wrong" if it COULD NOT happen. in fact it'd be pretty bizzare if it couldn't.
it happens in real life, (people getting to a degree of wealth where their lives are entirely financed on profits and GAIN from investments)
the fact that everything is more dramatic here, bigger toys, bigger investments, bigger losses, doesn't change it that much.
I woulda sworn people were saying "the inflation is starting to really be a problem" or whatever before I left the first time... pre-exodus. and its no shock to me that "they" still are. sure the market HAS changed alot since then.
From what I'm seeing, with my big gap in time and all... is that I think the higher population, and changes to mining and astroid regeneration, are likely a much greater effect on the market than macro miners, or inflation.
Quote:
My suggestion - ISK tax. The more ISK you own, the greater the tax, starting when you reach 500mil ISK (so as not to screw over the newbs). It can be avoided, true, by spreading ISK across multiple alts, but it's a start...
what would be the point of that? gonna give people with less than a mill free money once in a while?
seriously. theres nothing wrong with being rich.
now thats not to say I have no issue with the T2 bpo system... it needs far more transparency, and more in general. theres no reason for so many things to be as rare and hard to get as they are. being more expensive is one thing, but they should be obtainably expensive... if that makes sense. like for example, I got my Ishkur for under 10m. but I had to wait a week to get it at that price! 10m is reasonable for that. but it should be readily avaliable at that price, rather than having to make 20 jumps and wait a week.
but I think transparency would help alot. like a report of how many of which BPO's ARE actually out, which ones are active, and system reports on when new ones are released. not even neccesarily naming who they go to, but just that they ARE released.
and I propose a system where if a T2 BPO isn't used for say, 3 months... as in completely ignored, unused, unresearched, un-traded, then it "degrades" to a high-runs BPC. maybe double max runs or something, depending on how much max runs is, then that "slot" be open for it to be found with the R&D lottery again.
~~~~~
To see a World in a Grain of Sand
And Heaven in a Wild Flower
Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand
And Eternity in an hour
~~William Blake |
Temerlyn
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Posted - 2006.02.07 02:16:00 -
[59]
even though you cant compare eve to real life got to consider that companies across the world deal with assets that are worth billions apon billions of dollars.
So while 45billion may seem alot it is probably a large isk sink for the person in question. Albiet it will eventually make its isk back after 2 years.
our company can float 1-2 billion isk Profit a week without even trying. We have had to invest in Isk buying more characters to deal with production.
then the capital age is a major isk sink, most capital ships will not be sold on the market, except for maybe carriers and dreads on a regular basis, if you see a mothership or titan on sale then something has gone wrong in some ones head.
its all relative
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Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2006.02.07 02:18:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Klasanov
Keta Min:
Quote:
wts clue. ship destruction is a huge isk generator.
Actually, ship destruction just puts ISK into the hands of a producer.
The insurance, however, creates ISK 
--
Proud member of the [23].
The Tachikomas are DEAD! Click sig for video.
<3 Tachikomas -Eldo
But I'm the cutest of them all, and I'm not even a blue robot - Wrangler
I have seen you. You cannot deny it anymore - Vanamonde
You used to be one of the twenty three, now you are a part of me - Cortes
Immy > You All - Imaran
Tachikomas > All ~kieron |
Chiron Typhon
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Posted - 2006.02.07 02:46:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
The insurance, however, creates ISK
Well this depends, insurance has the potential to be both ISK sink and creator. In the case of the PVP guys losing ships regularly then yes it has the potential to create because the rate they get paid out is faster than the rate they pour in premiums. However, all those players sitting in Empire space having contract after contract expire and renewing without using it, this is a sink.
What the balance point is, only CCP knows, the total overall game balance of insurance ISK might be a sink or a creator.
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Tenacha Khan
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Posted - 2006.02.07 03:40:00 -
[62]
Edited by: Tenacha Khan on 07/02/2006 03:41:26
Those people in empire dont tend to insure their ships though, or do they?
I dont insure my ships for rp reasons, but still get that dumb 40%
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My grandfather
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Posted - 2006.02.07 04:18:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Tenacha Khan
Edited by: Tenacha Khan on 07/02/2006 03:41:26
Those people in empire dont tend to insure their ships though, or do they?
I dont insure my ships for rp reasons, but still get that dumb 40%
The hell we do! I've never flown any ship worth over 100k without insuring it first. Why wouldn't an empire carebear insure his stuff? You have to do something to earn money and earning money = some kind of risk. Insurance keeps your wallet alive in a case like that 
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Scoundrelus
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Posted - 2006.02.07 04:23:00 -
[64]
Pirates and PvPers are an isk sink in EVE. We blow your stuff up and you gotta buy new stuff. Viola! ISK Sink!
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Tommy TenKreds
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Posted - 2006.02.07 06:39:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Donis Ardis
The true infulence on the game(market in reality) are the big market players, the resellers, this is where the money is. Buy and sell without undocking.
Someone say my name? 
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