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The Blockade L4 - Sansha - Tracking Disruption is getting me crazy

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Korgan Nailo Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance 0	Posted - 2011.11.02 22:22:00 - [1] - Quote Got "The Blockade" against Sansha. Yay right? Wrong. In case someone is interested, this is my ship / fit / skills: Nightmare Tachions: Imperial Navy Multifrequency: 36.4km optimal, 782 DPS Imperial Navy Xray: 54.6km optimal, 651 DPS Imperial Navy Standard: 72.9km optimal, 521 DPS One TE equiped. With 2xTC with Tracking Speed: 0.0375 tracking, 31.2 fall off With 1xTC with Tracking Speed and 1xTC with Optimal Range: 0.0306 tracking, 39.3 fall off With 2xTC with Optimal Range: 0.0238 tracking, 46.1 fall off Ever since I moved to Amarr for missioning, I had little problem with Sansha after I switched for a Nightmare. The Abbadon was ok, but with only 10kms, some missions were almost impossible specially because I still can't use T2 ammo. With that said, it was with great desolation that I warped out from a The Blockade L4 against Sansha simply because 4 elite cruisers orbiting me at 25kms were "unkillable". I had all five light combat drones on one of them, and was also shooting the same cruiser. They went all the way from 50kms to 25kms without me being able to kill a single one, until finally all battleships from the wave reached their "optimal" and I simply couldn't tank the pocket anymore. Drones were too weak to kill the cruisers so I had to warp out. Then warped back in at 70kms, of'course they TDd me again, but this time I was lucky to only have two TDs on me. Third and fourth didn't land before I could blow up at lest one of those cruisers. Had to use on TC with Tracking Speed and another with Optimal Range or no hits, as usual. When the TD takes place my Optimal goes to hell, being about 12kms with Standard crystals as my Tracking, going to 0.004. So, here is my two questions: - Am I doing something wrong or TD is really this f(word)ing annoying? - Is there any better way to counter TD?
Brothar Rey D-E-X-N 0	Posted - 2011.11.02 22:34:00 - [2] - Quote I keep a Missile chucker ship (Drake) for just such a mission myself. I'll take it out, kill the TD cruisers and then switch back to the battleship to mop up.
Goose99 Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 106	Posted - 2011.11.02 22:50:00 - [3] - Quote Sansha TD is not bad. Try Serpentis version Blockade. They sensor damp you to 5km locking range, and spawn 100km away in opposite directions.
Zhilia Mann Tide Way Out Productions 67	Posted - 2011.11.02 22:51:00 - [4] - Quote Goose99 wrote: Sansha TD is not bad. Try Serpentis version Blockade. They sensor damp you to 5km locking range, and spawn 100km away in opposite directions. This. So much this.
Leetha Layne Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2011.11.02 23:05:00 - [5] - Quote You have T2 drones I hope.
george harries School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 1	Posted - 2011.11.02 23:34:00 - [6] - Quote Zhilia Mann wrote: Goose99 wrote: Sansha TD is not bad. Try Serpentis version Blockade. They sensor damp you to 5km locking range, and spawn 100km away in opposite directions. This. So much this. Edit: after looking at your numbers, I'm thinking this could be a skill issue. My incredibly, stupidly conservative NM fit throws out 900 dps using IN multi and has never had serious issues with tracking disruption (and I'm only fitting one TC). I have to agree withthe above- I have flown a lot of missions in Amarr and they only problematic ones were Gurista - on my NM (IN Tachs) with IN multi I get 1019 DPS using 3 HS and have 2 tracking enhancers and 1 tracking computer. Getting Amarr BS up to at least 4 will help with tracking but it may be you need to skill up your gunnery skills a bit more before it really 'shines' in lvl 4's. In all honesty it is probably the best ship for missions in Amarr space.
mxzf Shovel Bros 94	Posted - 2011.11.03 00:53:00 - [7] - Quote Korgan Nailo wrote: I had all five light combat drones on one of them, Here's your other issue. You have 75 m3/bandwidth. You should have a set of T2 Hobgoblins and a set of T2 Hammerheads in there. With that and Drone Interfacing to atleast 4, you shouldn't have any issues with cruisers at all.
mingetek DustWaffe DUST ALLIANCE 13	Posted - 2011.11.03 03:36:00 - [8] - Quote i get the same thing but not overly that often. if i gotta i warp off and come back at range and sniper thier asses.
Will Strafe Caldari Provisions Caldari State 4	Posted - 2011.11.03 05:30:00 - [9] - Quote Many of these problems can be remedied by fitting an Afterburner. Kite the cruisers and shoot them while they give chase in a direct path towards you. I Missioned in a Nightmare, had the Rebublic AB I think, and it is a pretty easy fit IIRC.
JitaJane Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 7	Posted - 2011.11.03 05:30:00 - [10] - Quote You have to manage the spawns. Did this one earlier in my tonight in the Mach. Clear the cruisers slowly but steady. I do not think that ECCM works on NPC EWAR at all (at least that has been my experience) so drop that and try to tank up for frustratingly slow kills. i honestly do not have issues with the Serps. B-line each pack of Gaurdians and open up point blank. they kind of melt. On Guristas 100% agree they are just not possible to clear in a turret boat in any sort of time. that handfull of Piths in Dread Scarlette usually takes me as long as the rest of the mission combined. Am honestly considering getting a few levels of caldari BS just for a Rattler just for Guristas. As of now I load an overtanked drake with FOFs and go make lunch...
pussnheels Vintage heavy industries 148	Posted - 2011.11.03 12:29:00 - [11] - Quote Those elite sansha elite cruisers tend to orbit you between 10 and 15 k the trick i use is to fly straight to them and force them to break orbit, whilethey try to orbit you again ,making them ideal targets for your MF crystals and webber combo , if you have a webber fitted that is , ( webber makes it easier ) Repeat on each and every elite cruiser If you got really good drone skills , setting your drones on your target aswell makes them die even faster I do not agree with what you are saying , but i will defend to the death your right to say it...... Voltaire
Le'Mon Tichim The Baseborn Syndicate 6	Posted - 2011.11.03 13:41:00 - [12] - Quote Honestly, the second wave is the hardest. The following waves all have TD's, but not near as many. There really isn't any shame in warping out and back in, I fly a Nightmare as well and The Blockade - Sansha is the closest I've come to rage quitting in Eve. And Hammerhead II's help, but it's been my experience that the elite cruisers don't even feel them.
Cyniac Twilight Star Rangers Black Thorne Alliance 31	Posted - 2011.11.03 14:06:00 - [13] - Quote I love my Dominix But yes - better drone skills and use of drones should fix the issue for you. (Hammerheads!)
Korgan Nailo Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance 0	Posted - 2011.11.03 14:36:00 - [14] - Quote Hey folks, thanks all for the replies. A few things I would like to share. --== Skills ==-- Amarr Battleship is at lvl 4, Motion Prediction is at lvl 4. If I had those at lvl 5 it would be the maximum tracking I could have in a Nightmare. At the moment it is 0.0375 with the maximum with all at lvl 5 being 0.0413. I don't think it would have been enough to turn the tide my favor. --== DPS ==-- Ppl mentioned 900+ DPS. I'm just using 3xHeat Sinks (two are IN). One slot was sacrificed for a Cap Flux so I could run everything without worrying about cap. Another thing is that I'm still skilling for t2 guns. So far, the tachions I'm using had never let me down, and I don't know how that would make a difference at this time considering that ALL tachions in game at the moment have the same tracking, optimal and fall off, and if you don't land your shots then.... well, I just don't see how that would be of a difference. --== Drones ==-- Yes, I didn't have a set of hammerheads with me at the time. I had just came from Angel Extravaganza and had put them out for a set of warriors. The light drones could drop those cruisers shields, but not their armor. Probably the hammers would have done it. Back to the mission, yes it was the second wave. I wonder if this isn't one of those missions where you should just warp in at 70 right away so you would have groups coming from different distances. Hitting things at 90+kms is not a problem in a Nightmare. I'll try that next time I have this mission while I'm improving my drone skills, which would definitely have done the trick it seems. =) Once again, thanks folks for sharing some thoughts. =D
Meltmind2 Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy 3	Posted - 2011.11.03 16:23:00 - [15] - Quote Funny thing: sansha TD only affects optimal, not falloff, so my machariel is hardly affected by them.
Akina Damaar Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2011.11.03 16:41:00 - [16] - Quote Imho, Sansha Blockade is simply one of the really painful missions for any gunboat. Maybe not as bad as Serpentis version, but bad enough. Depending on mood I simply decline it when it comes up. It's definitly not good isk/hour, so only doing it when I want the "challange". Quite a few good tips in this thread that I also found helpful: - T2 Hammerheads - You will fight in falloff (your optimal will be totally crippled). Shouldn't be a problem with Tachyons. I swapped a heat sink for a TE when I last tried with mega pulses. - Fly straight into them to break orbit. - Do not warp out and in back at 70km. You will be TDed after max one volley (which won't kill the elite cruisers) and then fly 50km just to get into falloff again.
Meltmind2 Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy 3	Posted - 2011.11.03 16:58:00 - [17] - Quote Alternatively: use a 2nd heavily tanked "soaker' ship (domi, geddon, abaddon, whatever) to take all the aggro/damage, if a new wave spawns and aggroes your dps ship, warp out (pref to a BM that is ~500k away from the warpin), have the soaker take aggro, warp back in and kill.
Korgan Nailo Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance 0	Posted - 2011.11.03 18:05:00 - [18] - Quote Meltmind2 wrote: Funny thing: sansha TD only affects optimal, not falloff, so my machariel is hardly affected by them. Hehe... Projectiles... totally OP compared to the other turrets ATM. Don't forget you can also do every kinds of damage. So if I were flying a Minmatar, I would just go with Autocannons, one TE and two TCs for tracking compensation. That alone and you would almost have no fall back in your range while still maintaining about 0.009 tracking. Enough to hit stuff at 50kms. Now, imagine if TD also affected your fall off the same way it affects the optimal... hell... pure and simple. Akina Damaar wrote: - Do not warp out and in back at 70km. You will be TDed after max one volley (which won't kill the elite cruisers) and then fly 50km just to get into falloff again. This is what worked for me so I could do the wave. The trick is that: - so far, your tracking computers can be switched to Optimal Range so your fall off is even bigger. Mine gets to 39km with just one TC going to Optimal Range. Would have the same results with two TE, since TE gives the same optimal / fall off bonus as a TC with Optimal Range script. - since you're not in the middle, you have one group close and another far away. By the time you clear the cruisers, and start working on the battleships the second group is getting into range. Bottom line is: if you get TD in this mission, you have nothing but your drones or a lucky shot to save you. And I agree, this thread brought up some good ideas. =)
Sayo Kisuke RIC RnD Ventures 0	Posted - 2011.11.03 19:45:00 - [19] - Quote I used to run lvl 4 sansha missions in a paladin and nightmare a long time ago. I always had to "manually" fly when shooting those close cruisers with either ship. I just put the target in my view and double click in front of him to rotate my ship and decrease the angular velocity. T2 drones help out too. I normally fit close range guns and an afterburner to make it a bit easier to close the gap but if you can't use T2 crystals then ouch!
Korgan Nailo Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance 0	Posted - 2011.11.03 21:44:00 - [20] - Quote Sayo Kisuke wrote: ... if you can't use T2 crystals then ouch! Yep, that is where the Nightmare came in for me. Nightmare + tachions t1m4 is ok, but Abbadon with Pulse without Scortch is almost impossible. The awesome thing is, I don't think I'll drop the Nightmare so soon, hehe =D
Theodemir Nemesis Holdings Corp Luna Sanguinem 9	Posted - 2011.11.04 01:31:00 - [21] - Quote It seems you need a better fit, and that will come eventually with more well spent SP. You shouldn't make the Nightmare 'cap stable' to begin with and T2 tach's are almost certainly required. T2 Hammerheads are very much mandatory should you stuck close to the entry point to the mission (warp in at 0) or the TD elite cruisers are on your tail. The key to the second and possibly 4th wave of annoying elite TD cruisers is to stay out to about 80km. Warping in at 70km doesn't always work. The spawns usually come from the clouds either end of the space station[also 'underneath' the SS]. The place to position your ship is either cloud facing the spacial anomaly [should you warp in at 0km, it will be the clouds to the left or right of your ship]. It must be random where the warpin point is should you decide to elect a range. Every time I've tried, its always a point near which the new waves spawn. The way I like to do it is warp in at 20/30km and then move my ship to the proper position. It usually takes the same out of time to get in position the time to destroy the first group of BS's[leaving the trigger BS last]. To note, that's without an AB . With an AB it will be a lot quicker [trigger the next wave earlier].
Valkyrie D'ark Armed Resistance Movement 0	Posted - 2011.11.05 00:46:00 - [22] - Quote Your fit is wrong.... Why would you use TCs on a Nightmare? Put Tracking enhancers in low slots. And I use pulses, Tachs suck.
Zhilia Mann Tide Way Out Productions 72	Posted - 2011.11.05 01:09:00 - [23] - Quote Valkyrie D'ark wrote: Your fit is wrong.... Why would you use TCs on a Nightmare? Put Tracking enhancers in low slots. Maybe because there's literally nothing better to fit in the mids? And perhaps for their vastly improved increases to range/tracking compared to TEs? Valkyrie D'ark wrote: And I use pulses, Tachs suck. The Nightmare might as well have been specifically designed to fit tachs. Pulses have their places in specific missions, but blockades aren't on that list. Ever.
Pappy McGee Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 0	Posted - 2011.11.05 01:39:00 - [24] - Quote Learn to adapt. And don't complain about tracking disruption when other missions jam you every ten seconds, nerf your targeting range down to 9,000 m, or any other mishmash of frustration. I got creative the last time I did a blockade mission, and stuck a bunch of smartbombs and a prop mod on an Apocalypse. The rats didn't even know what to do, when I came full-bore at them, disco-lights blazing! Not terribly effective. But it got it done.
Desudes Federal Defence Union Gallente Federation 12	Posted - 2011.11.05 01:43:00 - [25] - Quote I enjoy sensor damps. Took me 48 seconds to target a frigate once. Excuse me, but what the fck are you desu?*
Cunane Jeran 30	Posted - 2011.11.05 03:07:00 - [26] - Quote I'd take the mass TD over Serpentis and 9km lock range.
Cade102 Cade Industries 3	Posted - 2011.11.05 13:00:00 - [27] - Quote When doing Serp Blockade L4, I find that a sebo with targeting range script and a sig amp is good enough to extend my locking range to around 24km, which is just nice for my 800mm AC Mael to pop the dampig cruisers in the evil second wave. Changing your fit to suit the mission does not take much skill and only a bit of forward planning.
1-Up Mushroom Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 62	Posted - 2011.11.06 13:25:00 - [28] - Quote Hmm.. I used to run that mission in a Paladin, with no TE's and 2x TC's always scripted for optimal range and never had much trouble with the TDing cruisers in a the second wave. With 2x Optimal range scripts it gives you 40km falloff, use that and some manual piloting and you can hit the cruisers like BS's 5 Senses In A Person... 4 Seasons In A Year... 3 Colors In A Stoplight... 2 Poles On The Earth... ONLY 1-UP MUSHROOM!!!-á If You Like My Sig, Like Me!
Muammar al-Amarr Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 1	Posted - 2011.12.25 21:33:00 - [29] - Quote So I used to do this mish in a Navypoc with 1TE, 1TC and Scorch, and it was a breeze. Just now I dropped the TE for a HS and couldn't do jack to the elite cruisers, had to warp out twice to fool their TD. Now I'm soon to fly a shiny new Nightmare (with crappy shield skills, BS4, and T1M4 Tachs) and I'm wondering will the Blockade become easier or harder (ie. slower) with that ship? Tachs have uber falloff so should be able to hit everything with MF or Xray but what about the tracking? Will the beams hit the cruisers and frigs coming straight at me when my tracking goes to ****? Most gunnery skills at IV or V, no t2 Beams though.
1-Up Mushroom Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 421	Posted - 2011.12.25 23:10:00 - [30] - Quote nvm 5 Senses In A Person... 4 Seasons In A Year... 3 Colors In A Stoplight... 2 Poles On The Earth... ONLY 1-UP MUSHROOM!!!-á If You Like My Sig, Like Me!

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