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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Baun
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Posted - 2006.02.07 20:05:00 -
[31]
 Originally by: Meat Wadd
Yeah that stands to reason that allied ships should not need to be targeted to fix. But they are so what is the way around it? I guess you just have to add mods to the mid slot to stop the ship from being jammed.
PS Love the Enders Game reference
Well, I think the only real way around is ECCM Projectors, the Midslot ones arent even half as good.
Ender's Game pwns. Baun means Bean ;)
The Enemy's Gate is Down
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Meat Wadd
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Posted - 2006.02.07 20:21:00 -
[32]
Ahh I will have to look into those! Do you have a carrier Baun?
Hey what are some good load outs for carriers... I would love to hear what people have done with them so far!
Quote:
Ender's Game pwns. Baun means Bean ;)
Ahh yeah read them all! I had wished to be able to read Enders Game again for the 1st time. And you know what? They came out with Enders Shadow! Man got to love that. Im looking for Shadow of the Giants now. Cant seem to find it yet.
Aqua Teen Hunger Force.
Number 1 in the Hood, G |
j0sephine
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Posted - 2006.02.08 02:15:00 -
[33]
Edited by: j0sephine on 08/02/2006 02:17:02
"and people saying that carriers should be a solopwnmobile. a dread is not a solopwnmobile but it can still tank... so why shouldnt a carrier be able to soak some damage huh?"
It can soak _some_ damage just fine. Can't tank like a dreadnaught in siege, but deals considerably more damage to targets smaller than capital ships in return. (and full pack of fighters from 2-3 carriers can break dread siege tank just as well) ... This sort of offense/defense balance is nothing new in the game.
"in a 50 vs 50 fight those fighters WILL DIE for sure, i for once will warp in and snipe them on by one (..)"
How do you snipe something with the battleship guns when it warps in right on top of you along with designated controller, instead of sitting there conveniently 50+ km away from you?
Given the short lock time of small ships and the mincemeat fighters do out of battleships, you're quite likely to be dead before you even get a lock on these fighters...
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slip66
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Posted - 2006.02.08 02:46:00 -
[34]
I agree that you should have the option to decide weather or not your fighters chase and your idea about the xfers seems cool.
A slight increase in signal strength I could buy off on. btw Aeon list its radar strenght as 1000. 0.o Even then a scoprion is a deadicated EW platform he should be able to jam you. Not easily but with some effectiveness. Besides scorpions are in thier own kinda hell as primary target for your side.
The carriers arent exactly weak tankers. You should not be able to tank a dread and fleet for very long. I allways figured a solo carrier would sit in a SS using the gang modules and have thier fighters assinged else where. They can rep ships there.
If your in a capitol ship fleet with 2-3 carriers and multiple dreads yeah bring them out in the open to xfer right there.
I just dont see them as front line ships.
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Pharuan
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Posted - 2006.02.08 04:06:00 -
[35]
I agree with Abdalion.
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DigitalCommunist
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Posted - 2006.02.08 04:55:00 -
[36]
Siege mode for Carriers is a bad idea, for the reasons mentioned above. As for their natural tanking ability, its not any different than a Dread without siege mode. In some cases you get resistance bonuses.
For a ship that essentially costs half the cost of a Dreadnaught thats already cutting it very close. Battlecruisers certainly don't tank as hard as say.. a Dominix. You are also comparing the tanking ability of these ships, when they are using stock tech 1 modules. You don't suppose that there might be a Capital Armor Repairer II or even a Capital Gist X-Type Shield Booster?
Seriously, just for the fun of it, put some tech 1 mods on your battleship and see how badly it performs. People just don't realize it because they are used to the status quo.
Personally, I'd like to see the drone AI bugs fixed first, and the carrier capacities looked into before deciding to screw with their roles.
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Remedial
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Posted - 2006.02.08 05:44:00 -
[37]
You could solve the "neverending warp chase" by fighters problem by having them warp scramble for -1 each. In return you can keep them fairly weak and expensive, and just fix the MWD problem.
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Vince Draken
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Posted - 2006.02.08 07:27:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Vince Draken on 08/02/2006 07:29:12
One annoying thing is when you assign your fighters and they warp out of your grid (sight) neither you (carrier pilot) or the assigned pilot an see the health of the fighters. Let me tell ya, losig a fighter to an npc frigate while testing them out wasnt very nice.
The above thoughts and statements are IC and should be taken as such. |
Baun
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Posted - 2006.02.08 07:45:00 -
[39]
Originally by: slip66
I agree that you should have the option to decide weather or not your fighters chase and your idea about the xfers seems cool.
A slight increase in signal strength I could buy off on. btw Aeon list its radar strenght as 1000. 0.o Even then a scoprion is a deadicated EW platform he should be able to jam you. Not easily but with some effectiveness. Besides scorpions are in thier own kinda hell as primary target for your side.
The carriers arent exactly weak tankers. You should not be able to tank a dread and fleet for very long. I allways figured a solo carrier would sit in a SS using the gang modules and have thier fighters assinged else where. They can rep ships there.
If your in a capitol ship fleet with 2-3 carriers and multiple dreads yeah bring them out in the open to xfer right there.
I just dont see them as front line ships.
agreed on most points.
Again, I don't see jamming as an issue as long as it doesn't prevent armor/shield/cap transfer. Its far too devastating in the current form where you need to lock a gang mate to transfer.
Maybe a work around, in case the non-locking module activation isnt possible, why not just let people lock gang mates even if they are jammed? That way you couldnt do anything offensive but still be able to use friendly mods on them.
The Enemy's Gate is Down
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KilROCK
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Posted - 2006.02.08 07:49:00 -
[40]
Originally by: slip66
A slight increase in signal strength I could buy off on. btw Aeon list its radar strenght as 1000. 0.o
Aeon is a Mothership, it's immune to EW.
The Nidhoggur got 68 Ladar strenght and i was able to jam him 3 times out of 10, with 2 Racials...
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Rafein
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Posted - 2006.02.08 08:08:00 -
[41]
It does have have some survivability, but not as much as a dread, and it should not.
It is more of a ranged platform, and indirect fire weapon. Sit it in a SS, Give the drones to others, and have them warp back to you for repairs.
Anyone who takes a carrier and warp directly into a firefight shold get it destroyed. And get podded. And their computer should blow up.
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Admiral IceBlock
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Posted - 2006.02.08 13:33:00 -
[42]
Originally by: j0sephine
Edited by: j0sephine on 08/02/2006 02:17:02
"in a 50 vs 50 fight those fighters WILL DIE for sure, i for once will warp in and snipe them on by one (..)"
How do you snipe something with the battleship guns when it warps in right on top of you along with designated controller, instead of sitting there conveniently 50+ km away from you?
Given the short lock time of small ships and the mincemeat fighters do out of battleships, you're quite likely to be dead before you even get a lock on these fighters...
uhm, what? if i warp to the enemy 100km away, how does the fighter end up ontop of me?
"We brake for nobody"
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Dahin
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Posted - 2006.02.08 13:41:00 -
[43]
if you need to open your armor rep, you must have made a mistake somewhere.
Why would you want your carrier to be present in the battle? Surely it can fulfill all it's roles from far, far away in a safespot.
It's your rep station, your regroup point, your pod meets new ship (soon(tm)).
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smallgreenblur
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Posted - 2006.02.08 13:46:00 -
[44]
Gang modules now only work in the same grid as the operator. So there's one good reason for a carrier to be in the middle of things :)
sgb
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Valeria Wolf
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Posted - 2006.02.08 13:57:00 -
[45]
HA - no way
Carriers shouldnt have heavy defenses. I DO think they should be allowed small turrets for close in defense against drones much as a real carrier has.
EW is as it should be its not overpowered
Lastly fighters should have the hp of the smaller T1 frigs at best.
afterall you can sit WAY back and still contribute to a fight...
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Gronsak
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Posted - 2006.02.08 13:59:00 -
[46]
Originally by: smallgreenblur
Gang modules now only work in the same grid as the operator. So there's one good reason for a carrier to be in the middle of things :)
sgb
are u sure about this. when was it changed? afaik gang mods/ gang bonouses apply within the same system. and its even in the gang mod description iirc
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Terradoct
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Posted - 2006.02.08 14:19:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Gronsak
Originally by: smallgreenblur
Gang modules now only work in the same grid as the operator. So there's one good reason for a carrier to be in the middle of things :)
sgb
are u sure about this. when was it changed? afaik gang mods/ gang bonouses apply within the same system. and its even in the gang mod description iirc
Gang skills - system wide
Gang modules - grid wide.
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Porro
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Posted - 2006.02.08 14:24:00 -
[48]
You make a good couple of points, the drone AI being crap and not using their mwd to return and fighters chasing after people, but the rest I don't really agree with.
Also a pos's guns wont attack drones/fighters.
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Gronsak
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Posted - 2006.02.08 14:25:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Terradoct
Originally by: Gronsak
Originally by: smallgreenblur
Gang modules now only work in the same grid as the operator. So there's one good reason for a carrier to be in the middle of things :)
sgb
are u sure about this. when was it changed? afaik gang mods/ gang bonouses apply within the same system. and its even in the gang mod description iirc
Gang skills - system wide
Gang modules - grid wide.
FFS. 4 days wasted training for gang mods on meh alt then  
well can u activeate the mods and use them while cloacked? ie activeate mod then cloack
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Porro
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Posted - 2006.02.08 14:35:00 -
[50]
Edited by: Porro on 08/02/2006 14:39:57
Im pretty sure gang mods are system wide as well, unless thats changed very recently?
Nvm asked a friend who uses them and I stand corrected :P
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Gronsak
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Posted - 2006.02.08 14:40:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Porro
Im pretty sure gang mods are system wide as well, unless thats changed very recently?
i hope your right. ill test them tonight when i get home. but the other guy seemed pretty certain.
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aeti
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Posted - 2006.02.08 14:45:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Gronsak
Originally by: Porro
Im pretty sure gang mods are system wide as well, unless thats changed very recently?
i hope your right. ill test them tonight when i get home. but the other guy seemed pretty certain.
he is wrong, they are system wide
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Gronsak
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Posted - 2006.02.08 14:49:00 -
[53]
Originally by: aeti
Originally by: Gronsak
Originally by: Porro
Im pretty sure gang mods are system wide as well, unless thats changed very recently?
i hope your right. ill test them tonight when i get home. but the other guy seemed pretty certain.
he is wrong, they are system wide
this is too confusiong.
3 ppl now say its grid wide [one changed his mind]
and you say its system wide
Can anyone confirm with 100% accuracy that they are system wide?
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Uther Doull
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Posted - 2006.02.08 15:08:00 -
[54]
oh my a ship designed to take out structures and other capital ships takes out a carrier? ZOMGH4X
there are a load of bugs and design flaws with carriers at the moment that should be straightened out, but the fact that a dread can take them out is not in that list...
---------------------------
My opinions are my own and not nessecarily those of my corp or alliance.
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SengH
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Posted - 2006.02.08 15:22:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Gronsak
Originally by: aeti
Originally by: Gronsak
Originally by: Porro
Im pretty sure gang mods are system wide as well, unless thats changed very recently?
i hope your right. ill test them tonight when i get home. but the other guy seemed pretty certain.
he is wrong, they are system wide
this is too confusiong.
3 ppl now say its grid wide [one changed his mind]
and you say its system wide
Can anyone confirm with 100% accuracy that they are system wide?
yes they are system wide.
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Rahm PacDragon
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Posted - 2006.02.08 15:29:00 -
[56]
While I'm not too keen about a 'seige mode' for carriers, I would love to see the drones fixed (particularly the speed bit... it can be a killer).
The one thing I'm curious about is that when everyone is talking about Fighters, Fighters, Fighters, no one is saying anything else about the other types of drones (nor are there Fighter-Hybrids that have dual roles...yet).
What about the Target Painter Drones (Hey Everyone... Kill -This- Guy!)
ECM Drones (No Targeting for Jou!)
Webber Drones (Simon sez 'Stop'... or at least slow down alot...)
and Repair Drones (do they automaticly repair or do they require 'direction'?)
Sure offensive power is great, and needed, but if Carriers are supposed to be Support Ships with a great whopping 200% Fighter (why not Drones in general?) control range (doubled that with the appropreate modules) along with the ability to bring more ships too it) then why not use them like that.
My personal 'vision' of a Carrier is that ship setting way way in the background that allows all the other ships in the Fleet to perform their role better.
Your battleships get attacked by small things; not only do you get a fighter on your tale but also a Paint Drone and a Webber Drone.
The Carrier is hanging way back and gets jumped by a few Battleships; well... I didn't loan out all my Fighters... here... have not only a Fighter or two but also deal with being Painted, Webbed while my drones Repair both my shield and armor as well I add a bit of shield to my drones and repair their armor.
I am a bit confused though: Drones V allows 5 drones; Advanced Drone Interfacing V allows 5 -more- Drones; and if one has Carrier V and is in a Mothership they get 15 addional Fighters.
To my math that seems like 10 drones and 15 fighters per mothership maximum,
or on a normal carrier 10 drones and 5 fighters.
I guess on the defensive concern EternalDark was mentioned would be not too loan all ones Fighters; but too keep some back for defense (unless the Carrier has those staying back to just defend the Carrier from sneak attack and not joining in on the fun?).
While IĈm wishing for the speed issue to get fixed on Drones (when I tell them to move I want them to ûmove-) I guess I can also wish for Hybrid Fighters to also be used in the future (lesser attack strength but perhaps a single module slot that one could put in either a scrambler, webber, energy drainer, etc) or Multi-role Fighters that perhaps include these roles.
Of course I'm new to Eve (but not to strategy games or mmorgs) so I could easily be missing something.
My two isk,
Rahm PacDragon
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2006.02.08 15:34:00 -
[57]
"uhm, what? if i warp to the enemy 100km away, how does the fighter end up ontop of me?"
They're kept back until you show up? ^^
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Meat Wadd
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Posted - 2006.02.08 15:59:00 -
[58]
Quote:
Your battleships get attacked by small things; not only do you get a fighter on your tale but also a Paint Drone and a Webber Drone.
This would be nice but for one thing. You cant tell your drones (and you have to tell them) To fix your own ship. Silly hey?
Hmmm I can youtell them to fix each other? Put a shield and armor repair drone on each fighter hmmmmm.
Anyonw have load out for there carrier? I would like to know what you have done with them.
Aqua Teen Hunger Force.
Number 1 in the Hood, G |
Baun
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Posted - 2006.02.08 16:08:00 -
[59]
Edited by: Baun on 08/02/2006 16:09:26
Originally by: Rafein
It does have have some survivability, but not as much as a dread, and it should not.
It is more of a ranged platform, and indirect fire weapon. Sit it in a SS, Give the drones to others, and have them warp back to you for repairs.
Anyone who takes a carrier and warp directly into a firefight shold get it destroyed. And get podded. And their computer should blow up.
This is a very stupid general misconception, which is only held because remote capital reps and boosters aren't on tranquility yet.
Once Capital remote reps come into the game, if you have at least 2 carriers they should be in the the battle repping each other and other ships. The issue of course is getting jammed, which incidentally is why jamming is overpowered, and why the system should be changed to accomodate jammed gang boosting.
The Enemy's Gate is Down
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Selak Zorander
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Posted - 2006.02.08 16:36:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Rahm PacDragon
I am a bit confused though: Drones V allows 5 drones; Advanced Drone Interfacing V allows 5 -more- Drones; and if one has Carrier V and is in a Mothership they get 15 addional Fighters.
To my math that seems like 10 drones and 15 fighters per mothership maximum,
or on a normal carrier 10 drones and 5 fighters.
advanced drone interfacing allows for the use on one drone control module per lvl.
the advanced drone interfacing skill is not being sold on market yet.
If it was, the drone control modules are a high slot device that requires 75000 PG to fit. yes with all lvl 5 skills a smaller carrier can get to 15 fighters in space at one time, but there is no room for other support modules, and the CPU usage is high enough with 5 drone control modules that and tank is limited as well.
So yes it is possible, but not a wise set-up for the most part for what i have been able to tell.
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