Why don't you try telling your members to be active in the systems you have these precious moons? Don't you trust them?

the core objection xttz is making though is these are boring when used as anything but griefing

we can monitor our own empire fine, it'll be annoying but we can do it. the issue is we've just got a lot more pointless space-work that generates no content for anyone else. we survey towers every few hours, loot and blap siphons, log off

no content is generated for anyone by forcing us to do this. it's just a pointless increase in space work instead of space fun, and that's the symptom of a failed mechanic.

Its never fun for the victim... but I can bet someone will be having a little fun with this, profitable or not, that is after all the goonies motto right.. do whats fun for you

the core objection xttz is making though is these are boring when used as anything but griefing

we can monitor our own empire fine, it'll be annoying but we can do it. the issue is we've just got a lot more pointless space-work that generates no content for anyone else. we survey towers every few hours, loot and blap siphons, log off

no content is generated for anyone by forcing us to do this. it's just a pointless increase in space work instead of space fun, and that's the symptom of a failed mechanic.

It should be interesting to see where this all settles (realistically speaking) a few months after deployment.

Seems to me price of 10 mill per siphon is sound. It is probably unreasonable to expect that thing to pay for itself in less then one game-play session when moon mining POS itself usually take ad lest few days to pay their own amortisation. Sure if POS owner logs in his alt once per day to check for his property he will suffer minimal loses, but for them to be so diligent is already much more then they have to do today to run their POS, so it seems that part is working as intended.

So if this structure punishes absentee POS owners that attend their property only once a fortnight or so, and leaves diligent owners safe, I'd say it has done it's purpose responsibly well. But I have some reservations with 20% waist factor. As an end product consumer I dislike anything that might reduce supply of manufacturing materials that might in turn push already excessive price of t2 ships even higher. I don't care who supplies the market, POS owner or random thief, as long as supply is not falling. So I must strongly urge devs to consider removing 20% waist penalty for the sake of maintaining reasonable t2 ship prices.

GǪ the issue is we've just got a lot more pointless space-work that generates no content for anyone else. we survey towers every few hours, loot and blap siphons, log off

You are limiting your thinking by assuming everyone is going to use the siphons by deploying them and leaving them be.

If you will need more hours than a normal gaming session to repay your siphon unit than people will be leaving them around POSes in hope that when they return tomorrow there is something.

Everyone realizes that you can deploy multiple Siphon units right? and they only take up 20m3 of cargo space. So get yourself a Cloakly Hauler and set up a few systems then make your way back through later collecting your goo. some of your units might have been destroyed or taken from. and some may be full of nice things.

If you will need more hours than a normal gaming session to repay your siphon unit than people will be leaving them around POSes in hope that when they return tomorrow there is something.

If you can repay it in some 2-3 hours than you will come back pick up those 2-3 mils, leave it there and come back every few hours to get the reward. Than you go to sleep leave the siphon knowing that it will prolly be destroyed or stolen from.

In one gaming session a couple of mills aint much. But when you are doing for the corp while roaming that can be few couple of hundreds (10 members X 10 siphons) when you seed an entire region. Couple of hundred millions daily for a lowsec corp is huge money (you know we don't own those fancy moons).

There was a plan ongoing to seed 4-5 lowsec regions and force moon holders to drop them. But now nothing will happen because i repeat, the siphons are useless in this state. Becasue now instead of earning couple of hundreds of millions we could loose a billion daily (10 members x 10 siphons x 10+millions) That is a budget we can't sustain for a long period.

Goons can sustain that kind of loss to blockade (aka Troll, grief) smaller entities. That is why they push for higher entry barrier so they keep the griefing mechanic (which could be a profit one, much larger content provider) only for themselves.
Higher entry barrier, simple economics that big corporations use to keep as bigger piece of market as possible.

Because if CCP is going to follow this logic even with the larger ones, it is a dead system from the start. Larger ones won't be taken even in consideration.

Maybe you elite PvPers can take a break from hiding behind cloaks and go run an L4? If each of your 10 members does one GE or AE then each can afford 4 siphons. If you have issues making 10 mil here and there than you seriously need to up your game.

BTW, how may Hp those things have ?

You are limiting your thinking by assuming everyone is going to use the siphons by deploying them and leaving them be.

Maybe you elite PvPers can take a break from hiding behind cloaks and go run an L4? If each of your 10 members does one GE or AE then each can afford 4 siphons. If you have issues making 10 mil here and there than you seriously need to up your game.

On the other hand I see how you want a free isk printing machine but with the moon nerf that is renters and sadly your are obviously not able to play with the big boys in 0.0.
While on it the reason you can't play with the big boys is exactly why you will not be able to benefit from siphons. You can't coordinate properly.

You really think people who want to grief Goons with siphons are going to care about profits OP?

In other words you want to say that i am right that siphons ARE to expensive and i need to throw my life away so i can earn isk for a proper siphon seeding campaign that will result in a big - in my pocket and nothing else.

Think before posting. I know you guys in goonswarm are used to some brainless posting, but cmn this is a serious topic.

proper game balance is me being able to do whatever i want cost-free please make sure eve meets this thank you

just me though nobody else

lol...obviously you didn't read even one post. Just trolling around :D...again shows me that i am right

your post was entirely "proper balance would require effort on my part to get what i want"

my mockery was directly on point

- Seed 1-2 regions of siphon units (20 moons)
- Get to them back in 2-4 hours to return the isk invested (depends on moons)
- Get again back to them in 2-4 hours to scoop the profit

Go to sleep. Repeat this every day for at least 3 months to have any effect on a bigger entity. Why repeat everyday? Simply because they will be or destroyed or stolen from the next day. And this is for the price of 2 mil per siphon unit.
You call this no effort? It is huge effort. Almost impossible tbh for most of the lowsec or 0.0 NPC entities.

Now imagine for the current prices of 12 mil. It is 6 times that effort to only return the invested. It is billions and billions monthly to cover only 1-2 regions. As i said atm it is only "Big boys grief tool"

Be objective man.