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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
MrCjEvans
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Posted - 2006.02.09 09:53:00 -
[1]
ok everyone knows hacc attacs bs with nos = dead hac, so why not balance it a bit bye capping the amount each sized nos can suckfrom a certain sized ship, ie.
small nos:
frigs = full amount
cruisers = full amount
BS = full amount
Medium nos:
frigs = small nos amount
cruisers = full amount
BS = full amount
hvy nos:
frigs = small nos amount
cruisers = medium nos amount
BS = full amount
just an idea
Now it is blatantly obvious that the nos is for 'i need more power in the armor rep scotty' and neuts are for 'omg my cap has gone, how the hell did he do that' by having faster cap recharge etc.
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ZelRox
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Posted - 2006.02.09 09:54:00 -
[2]
DENIED 
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I got pwnt by the giggling admiral
BiH 4tw |
OzaLoni
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Posted - 2006.02.09 09:57:00 -
[3]
OMG another lets nerf it cause we lost a ship to NOS post... pls... Its fine as it is, learn to deal with the problem rather than saying nerf nerf nerf!
Don't **** me off! I'm running out of places to hide the bodies...
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jukriamrr
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Posted - 2006.02.09 09:57:00 -
[4]
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Guardian Alpha
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Posted - 2006.02.09 09:58:00 -
[5]
I don't understand the reasoning behind this. The Nos is a valid counter-tactic weapon that is meant to be used to eliminate the capacitor from ships and give it to you. Why is it wrong to be able to drain small ships dry quickly due to their naturally small capacitors? Small frigates and similar can not be immune to all forms of defence and need certain counters in place. A webber works, light drones work, and the nos work. Don't eliminate the frigate-level defence of larger ships just so you can stay in smaller ships.
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"It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change."
- Charles Darwin |
Hub Quantum
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Posted - 2006.02.09 10:08:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Hub Quantum on 09/02/2006 10:09:20
 Originally by: Guardian Alpha
I don't understand the reasoning behind this. The Nos is a valid counter-tactic weapon that is meant to be used to eliminate the capacitor from ships and give it to you. Why is it wrong to be able to drain small ships dry quickly due to their naturally small capacitors? Small frigates and similar can not be immune to all forms of defence and need certain counters in place. A webber works, light drones work, and the nos work. Don't eliminate the frigate-level defence of larger ships just so you can stay in smaller ships.
Because everything else in the game is balanced against optimal targets. IE fit 1400mm art you're going to have problems hitting an interceptor in a tight high transversal orbit. Fit a heavy nos and a couple of pulses and the fella is drained and there is nothing he can do about it, even if he fits every single item and has every pertinent skill at V. There is a tactic, counter, plate or maneuver for every weapon in the game aside from the NOS, why should the only counter to a BS sporting heavy noses to also sport a BS with an equal amount of heavy nos? (or a higher class ship with nos)
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MrCjEvans
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Posted - 2006.02.09 10:08:00 -
[7]
Edited by: MrCjEvans on 09/02/2006 10:09:14
im not saying that you shouldn't be able to kill smaller ships cap as that is indeed a valid attack in the game, what i am saying is that it shouldnt happen without any cost what so ever to the attacking bs. it is simple, a crow has base 250 cap if you want to suck it dry( being in a bs with much larger cap allows you to do so) then you should be using a energy neutralizer which kills 500 cap not a nosferatu
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Sentani
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Posted - 2006.02.09 10:12:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Sentani on 09/02/2006 10:12:55
think it should be dependant on the sig of the target...
in all other weapons you need to fitt smaller weapons to hit smaller targets...
the heavy nos is like a 1400mm arty hitting an orbiting ceptor...
its a remnant of the old pre-tracking time...
oh and as it is now theres no defence against noses... only EW maybe but that frigate has the CAP for that ?...
____________
The cargo bay is overloaded and cannot be made to fit Expanded Cargohold I.
It is currently only capable of fitting 8772.12 units and it is currently jammed full with 9558.33 units. |
Hayabusa Fury
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Posted - 2006.02.09 10:18:00 -
[9]
You counter a BS with NOS with more ships. PERIOD!
A HAC vs BS should lose. A gang of HACs vs BS should win.
A BS can't NOS an entire group.
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Randuin MaraL
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Posted - 2006.02.09 10:23:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Randuin MaraL on 09/02/2006 10:25:26
Originally by: Sentani
think it should be dependant on the sig of the target...
oh and as it is now theres no defence against noses... only EW maybe but that frigate has the CAP for that ?...
No. No. No. No. No. No.
CAP has nothing to do with signature. NOS are no missiles and no guns. The heavy nos is NOT like a 1400 artillery nor like a laser, it simply does not follow "linear" or ballistic physics.
And there is A LOT of defense against NOS:
- speed-range
- EW, and yes, frigate HAS CAP for EW
- sensor dampener
- an energy boosting friend at your side
- CAP recharge
- CAP injectors
- CAP batteries
- your own nosferatu
- kill the enemy before he drains you
- bring friends
And no, I am no NOS-fan, I rarely use a nosferatu myself.
Edited for the OP: Quote:
Nerf the NOS vs smaller targets!!
That is the best way to demand from CCP to do something, using imperative command tone and "!" Why did you not use capitalized writing?
Never be in the company of anyone with whom you would not want to die.
MEDUSA veteran, Khumaak Award winner
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errorist
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Posted - 2006.02.09 10:27:00 -
[11]
Originally by: MrCjEvans
Edited by: MrCjEvans on 09/02/2006 10:09:14
im not saying that you shouldn't be able to kill smaller ships cap as that is indeed a valid attack in the game, what i am saying is that it shouldnt happen without any cost what so ever to the attacking bs. it is simple, a crow has base 250 cap if you want to suck it dry( being in a bs with much larger cap allows you to do so) then you should be using a energy neutralizer which kills 500 cap not a nosferatu
ehm now u say energy neutralizer, why should anyone fitt thos when the nos benefitts more, cause it gives cap to the user, and yes the energy neut would be fine, if u knew that you only where encountering frigs/cruiser etc etc, but the nos often are necessery to have because if u by any insane convincidence encounter a bs that has 2 nos(almost standart on ALL bs) then u need to be able to nos back or y'll only neut your own cap.
If something is hard going, its not worth doing |
FireFoxx80
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Posted - 2006.02.09 10:33:00 -
[12]
I see a lot of "I don't like WCS/NOS, please nerf" posts recently.
Consider your sig tainted, and all your alcohol stolen - Wrangler
Beer=Beer+3 |
Grimpak
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Posted - 2006.02.09 10:41:00 -
[13]
Originally by: FireFoxx80
I see a lot of "I don't like WCS/NOS, please nerf" posts recently.
indeed, and altho I rather agree that something needs to be done in the WCS department, I don't agree with the NOS issues.
Oh and to the OP: I fly frigates in PvP. Every time I engage a BS I always get ready for being nossed out. And you see me crying "NERF!!!11oneone" every time I lose a ship because of it? No. So *shush*.
----------------
Originally by: Abdalion
Shoot him ingame if you don't like this person. If you do like him, go mine veldspar with him.
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DarK
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Posted - 2006.02.09 10:43:00 -
[14]
Takes balls of steel to post a topic like this.
/me hides
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Grimwalius d'Antan
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Posted - 2006.02.09 10:47:00 -
[15]
I used to think NOSes were overpowered, but then I realized I was just being a moron. Essentially, Im calling you a moron for starting this thread.
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Terradoct
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Posted - 2006.02.09 10:52:00 -
[16]
Originally by: MrCjEvans
small nos and small turrets:
frigs = full amount
cruisers = 1/2 amount
BS = 1/4 amount
Medium nos and Med turrets:
frigs = 1/2 amount
cruisers = full amount
BS = 1/2 amount
hvy nos large turrets:
frigs = 1/4 nos amount
cruisers = 1/2 nos amount
BS = full amount
just an idea
Just edited a little how I like to see that nerf.
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Gorenaire
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Posted - 2006.02.09 10:52:00 -
[17]
I lost my 150 millions HAC coz I was fool enough to come in NOS range so nerf it !
Also, while you're at it, please nerf ECM because its damn annoying, dont forget to remove instas because its annoying for pirats, and of course nerf all the ships except mine 
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Le Snoet
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Posted - 2006.02.09 10:53:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Randuin MaraL
Edited by: Randuin MaraL on 09/02/2006 10:25:26
Originally by: Sentani
think it should be dependant on the sig of the target...
oh and as it is now theres no defence against noses... only EW maybe but that frigate has the CAP for that ?...
No. No. No. No. No. No.
CAP has nothing to do with signature. NOS are no missiles and no guns. The heavy nos is NOT like a 1400 artillery nor like a laser, it simply does not follow "linear" or ballistic physics.
And there is A LOT of defense against NOS:
- speed-range
- EW, and yes, frigate HAS CAP for EW
- sensor dampener
- an energy boosting friend at your side
- CAP recharge
- CAP injectors
- CAP batteries
- your own nosferatu
- kill the enemy before he drains you
- bring friends
And no, I am no NOS-fan, I rarely use a nosferatu myself.
Edited for the OP: Quote:
Nerf the NOS vs smaller targets!!
That is the best way to demand from CCP to do something, using imperative command tone and "!" Why did you not use capitalized writing?
totally agrees 
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Yarek Balear
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Posted - 2006.02.09 11:04:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Yarek Balear on 09/02/2006 11:05:21
Edited by: Yarek Balear on 09/02/2006 11:04:29
OK, rather than post agreement with the usual "/signed" comment, I think this one requires an:
/Unsigned!
In fact, gimme some damn tippex to wipe out any signatures from people that were fooled by this. I personally love flying frigates and small fast gangs, but I see no logic in the post other than the usual "omg, I want to kill BS with my harpy" nonsense...
Aside from fundamental things like physics & balance, the cold hard fact of the matter is that the NOS is one of a very few defenses a BS has against frigates/cruisers. Additionally the NOS does not kill the frigate - just disables it. Usually the frigate can still get outside of the BS range and get out...
EDIT: Typos...
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KilROCK
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Posted - 2006.02.09 11:09:00 -
[20]
Let's give every module some kind of tracking and sig resolution!!! wewt!!!
Whiners. 
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Ms Freak
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Posted - 2006.02.09 12:54:00 -
[21]
Anyone for Cheese with that Whine??
FFS People - Why should anyone change the NOS?? You want to be able to Solo a BS/Capital/Whatever thats bigger than you in a small ship??
Jees - might as well do an EVE-Offline Single Player games.
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Mitram
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Posted - 2006.02.09 13:07:00 -
[22]
Since this is another "nerf BS" thread I have to add my 2 isk to it unfortunetly.
Before any NOS change CCP MUST look into the balance issue between the different ship classes.
Currently it is like:
BS > Cruiser > Frigate > BS.
Just imagine following scenario: You shoot with a pistol at a real battleship. You hit it and you actually shoot a hole into it.
How much dmg have you done to the battleship? None. So in EVE currently the energy factor is missing in the dmg calculation. When you hit a large target with low-energy weapons (usually small weapons) the large target can easily compensate low energy hits without taking any real damage.
What I suggest to CCP is that small guns shall hit perfectly on large targets but the dmg energy that was send from the small gun to the large target is so small that even with perfect hits the real dmg is smaller.
This change would fix this broken chain BS>cruiser>friagte>BS.
BS would still have a hard time hitting a frigate
frigates would have no hard time hitting a BS but because of the low energy its is not very effective.
So everyone would fight thing one above or one below in the chain.
Currently frigates are way overpowered. Frigates should not have the I-WIN button as BS should not have the Instant-Death-to-frigates button either. Involving the enegry contained in weapons to the dmg formular will fix that. Then figates would usually fight friagtes and cruisers and would be used as tacker or support for BS. Cruisers would fight frigates and BS. BS would fight cruisers and could try to fight frigates.
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Testy Mctest
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Posted - 2006.02.09 13:10:00 -
[23]
I decided I needed a new standard response, since this type of thread is so prolific now.
So here it is.
The Eve Guild Wars Project! |
Unuthiel
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Posted - 2006.02.09 13:14:00 -
[24]
Quote:
Fit a heavy nos and a couple of pulses and the fella is drained and there is nothing he can do about it, even if he fits every single item and has every pertinent skill at V.
Right, because it's ridiculous that a battleship should be able to beat a T2 frigate......
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SilentSentinel
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Posted - 2006.02.09 13:14:00 -
[25]
Originally by: MrCjEvans
Edited by: MrCjEvans on 09/02/2006 10:09:14
im not saying that you shouldn't be able to kill smaller ships cap as that is indeed a valid attack in the game, what i am saying is that it shouldnt happen without any cost what so ever to the attacking bs. it is simple, a crow has base 250 cap if you want to suck it dry( being in a bs with much larger cap allows you to do so) then you should be using a energy neutralizer which kills 500 cap not a nosferatu
Simply put, Nos should not be changed or stabs either. If you are engaging a BS, then bring some help. Do you really think you should be on an even playing field with an older character? Hardly. This game requires gang interaction. What you want is an "I win button" for individual players. Won't happen. Learn the game mechanics m8. I'm not trying to be harsh on you, but you need to find different solutions to "your" particular problem.
Cheers
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Hans Roaming
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Posted - 2006.02.09 13:25:00 -
[26]
What's wrong with bringing a fiend with a BB?
President
Huzzah Federation
Be all you can be, join the Huzzah Armed Forces today! |
Kamikaaazi
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Posted - 2006.02.09 13:35:00 -
[27]
Originally by: MrCjEvans
ok everyone knows hacc attacs bs with nos = dead hac, so why not balance it a bit bye capping the amount each sized nos can suckfrom a certain sized ship, ie.
small nos:
frigs = full amount
cruisers = full amount
BS = full amount
Medium nos:
frigs = small nos amount
cruisers = full amount
BS = full amount
hvy nos:
frigs = small nos amount
cruisers = medium nos amount
BS = full amount
just an idea
Now it is blatantly obvious that the nos is for 'i need more power in the armor rep scotty' and neuts are for 'omg my cap has gone, how the hell did he do that' by having faster cap recharge etc.
hey, i got a better idea
small guns:
frigs = full damage
cruisers = 1/2 damage
BS = 1/4 damage
etc
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smallgreenblur
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Posted - 2006.02.09 13:39:00 -
[28]
What in gods name are you doing? There is an IDENTICAL thread about 2cm below this one, why do we have a new one? At least confine the whining to one thread, please...
sgb
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2006.02.09 13:45:00 -
[29]
Mitram, LMAO.
Wow, 10 people in T2 frigates, which cost considerably more than your BS p0wn it? Because you screwed up and got caught with the deep space equivalent of your pants down? (solo in a belt).
Gameplay > Realism
With 10 people with a clue engage someone who is not specifically fitted to counter EXACTLY what they ahve brought, HE SHOULD DIE.
As for the counters...
*speed-range ...i.e., don't engage. Not precisely a PvP strategy which wins you glory, since heavy nos hit out to disruptor range.
*EW ...lmao. No, using 50-75% of your cap per-cycle is NOT viable, regardless how you cut it.
*Sensor Dampers ...they are both bugged (BS can run a sensor booster and counter most of the effect) and they will not reduce the BS's lock range below what it needs to lcok a frigate engaging it at closer ranges.
*An energy boosting friend. ...right, so we should HAVE to bring a suport cruiser along with a wolfpack? Be realistic.
*CAP recharge ...is too low on frigates to make a difference. As you know.
*CAP batteries ...can viably be mounted on ONE tackling frigate, the stiletto, and they won't save you from multiple nos.
*CAP injectors ...as batteries, but now you lose all your cargo bay too
*your own nos ...possibly an argument, but small nos require you to enter smartbomb range, have a far lower cap/second etc, so cannot be countered a true counter but rather a pallative.
*kill the enemy quick ...if I had a fleet on hand big enough to kill a BS in 13s, I'd not be *****ing here.
*bring friends ...how does this help YOUR cap? Oh wait, it dosn't.
The nos sticks out like a sore thumb right now as an anti-everything highslot module.
Digital Communist> The Jin-Mei are probably more profficient in training for Tofu and Noodles than Spaceship Command |
smallgreenblur
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Posted - 2006.02.09 13:47:00 -
[30]
Nerf bs! they're too powerful! They keep beating me in my frigate even when they are not setup specifically to counter me! Arggghhh. etc
sgb
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