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Does WAR make players leave Eve?

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 5 post(s)
Velicitia Emergent Avionics 1776	Posted - 2013.11.05 17:08:00 - [1] - Quote Wars are fine. The problem is the people who believe (wrongly) that they should be allowed to mine (or whatever) in complete peace and without any outside interaction (ganking, wars, whatever).
Velicitia Emergent Avionics 1777	Posted - 2013.11.05 17:35:00 - [2] - Quote Princess Bride wrote: Velicitia wrote: Wars are fine. The problem is the people who believe (wrongly) that they should be allowed to mine (or whatever) in complete peace and without any outside interaction (ganking, wars, whatever). Blaming customers for their expectations, and losing them as a result, is bad for business. If I was CCP, I would attempt to protect those players a bit more effectively than they currently are. CCP has always touted EVE as a dystopian universe ... nowhere in any of the ads or trailers (or news articles about "bad things" happening to people) have they even hinted at the possibility of being safe anywhere. If someone can read/watch all of that and come to the conclusion that you can play EVE without forced (violent) interactions with other players, then their expectations were wrong in the first place. They should never have been a customer in the first place, much less a "lost" customer. It's the same bogus argument that the *IAA uses -- "anyone who downloads [movie\|song] represents a lost sale of that [movie\|song]".
Velicitia Emergent Avionics 1777	Posted - 2013.11.05 18:32:00 - [3] - Quote Krixtal Icefluxor wrote: Velicitia wrote: It's the same bogus argument that the IAA uses -- "anyone who downloads [movie\|song] represents a lost sale of that [movie\|song]". This is actually a patently true statement. Such a process involves absolutely no sale or further monetary compensation towards the artist, and, sorry, that point cannot even be argued. Great de-railer though, and most indeed. There is no guarantee that a person downloading a song would have ever bought it in the first place, thus they cannot (by definition) be considered a "lost sale" (unless you're counting every single time someone walks past your item on the shelf as a "lost sale" ... in which case, everyone is guilty of causing serious economic harm to the IAA and the artists they represent).
Velicitia Emergent Avionics 1781	Posted - 2013.11.06 12:26:00 - [4] - Quote Sheldor Amouh wrote: Is every dowinload a lost sale? No but some pecentage. And item on the shelf is a false analogy because the person walking by the item doesnt take it home and keep it. A closer analogy along those lines is shop lifting, the difference being in shop lifting there is tangible loss to the marketer other than the loss of sale. Because there is no direct analogy in conventional direct sales is where the grey area term comes into play. "Shoplifting" is a non-ideal analogy as well, because it is legitimately a lost sale for that merchant every. single. time. Downloading a thing may or may not be a lost sale, and the issue I have with the stance of the IAA groups is that they say "every download* is a lost sale". Sure it makes for good support of their position (and rhetoric, and whatever), but it's about as true as saying every mining barge ganked is ganked by goons (grrr goons).
Velicitia Emergent Avionics 1785	Posted - 2013.11.06 13:27:00 - [5] - Quote Pap Uhotih wrote: (stuff) You make some good points here, but you're going about it wrong. You don't pull out all 100 of your dudes to fight 20 (well, you can, but they'll hide). Here's what you (should) be doing when a war crops up: 1. no flying solo anywhere, excepting obvious things (scouts jump first). but otherwise look disorganized. 2. make your losses inexpensive (but still fit effectively) -- e.g. if a lot of your guys are goon in frigs/dessies, fly those (pilots "good" in cruisers/bc can act as heavy muscle). You can lose a lot more well-fit frigates for the same price as a poorly fit battleship 3. taking notes on who the "good" pilots are -- see if they wanna start being FCs. Now, "being prepared for war" isn't something that should be done in the 24 hours leading up to a war, but it should be done all the time. Buying or building 30 frigates is a lot easier on resources over the course of 3 months than in 24 hours ... knowing some "generic" fits that will go onto a ship, so you can counter it (e.g. a rifter will have autocannons and an AB ... so use artillery, a long point, and kite him)...
Velicitia Emergent Avionics 1789	Posted - 2013.11.06 15:20:00 - [6] - Quote Mythrandier wrote: Aralyn Cormallen wrote: Mythrandier wrote: ...Large Hardon Collider. It got you hot, admit it EVE forums + work = embarrassing situations
Velicitia Emergent Avionics 1789	Posted - 2013.11.06 15:25:00 - [7] - Quote Omar Alharazaad wrote: 2 man corps? I had one of those until I caught my alt trying to AWOX me... I booted him and he ragequit. Now I have no alt. Now at least I don't have to listen to weak excuses about not being able to help with corp activities, nor do I need to worry about whether or not I'll have backup if it hits the fan. Even so, in all seriousness, I maintain a personal corp for the purposes of helping to keep me accountable for my own actions and words, in game, and on the forums. I'm an adult, or so they tell me, and I'll face the consequences of what I bring upon myself. Personally, I'm of the opinion that NPC corps should be able to be wardecced, either that or individuals should be able to be decced. EVE isn't a game for the kiddies, there are plenty of those out there. As matters stand the NPC corps serve as havens for too many screaming monkeys who don't want to face the consequences of flinging poo. This is the thing that is broken. Rampant asshattery without consequences is simply cultural decay in action. I'm kinda in the same boat -- but more because NPC Chat causes cancer (even outside of California!), so started this one up to free myself from that mess. Soon as I can find a proper crew to fly with, I'm out of my 1-man corp misery.
Velicitia Emergent Avionics 1790	Posted - 2013.11.06 15:33:00 - [8] - Quote Pap Uhotih wrote: I think you are failing to recognise that there needs to be something for all the participants to be doing. At best you are suggesting there is some fun in only a third of the participants having something to do, by my math that leaves two thirds of the people with nothing to do - irrelevant of ships and skills. 'You can't fight, we're at war' is far too close to being a Dr Strangelove quote. We do about go war correctly, that is the problem, we try to fight in an armed conflict but there is nothing to shoot at. Being able to declare war and then vanish completely from the Universe when it suites you doesn't make any sense. The war system is wrong, not the people wanting to wage war. The quote is "You can't fight in here! This is the war room!" (hilarious movie) Why is what I said limiting the "fun things" to only 1/3 of the people in a corp? I merely posted "some" things that you could do, not all the things... care to clarify? There's nothing stopping your corp of 100 from having a mining op during a war (just bring defense and properly tanked skiffs). There's nothing stopping your corp of 100 from continuing to mission (just fly in pairs/quads). There's nothing stopping your manufacturers and traders from doing their thing (use escorts/scouts). There's nothing stopping you from looking weak/disorganized (mining 2 jumps away from home with a "small" gang ... backup on standby).
Velicitia Emergent Avionics 1793	Posted - 2013.11.06 17:35:00 - [9] - Quote Pap Uhotih wrote: Velicitia wrote: Pap Uhotih wrote: I think you are failing to recognise that there needs to be something for all the participants to be doing. At best you are suggesting there is some fun in only a third of the participants having something to do, by my math that leaves two thirds of the people with nothing to do - irrelevant of ships and skills. 'You can't fight, we're at war' is far too close to being a Dr Strangelove quote. We do about go war correctly, that is the problem, we try to fight in an armed conflict but there is nothing to shoot at. Being able to declare war and then vanish completely from the Universe when it suites you doesn't make any sense. The war system is wrong, not the people wanting to wage war. The quote is "You can't fight in here! This is the war room!" (hilarious movie) Why is what I said limiting the "fun things" to only 1/3 of the people in a corp? I merely posted "some" things that you could do, not all the things... care to clarify? There's nothing stopping your corp of 100 from having a mining op during a war (just bring defense and properly tanked skiffs). There's nothing stopping your corp of 100 from continuing to mission (just fly in pairs/quads). There's nothing stopping your manufacturers and traders from doing their thing (use escorts/scouts). There's nothing stopping you from looking weak/disorganized (mining 2 jumps away from home with a "small" gang ... backup on standby). That is a quote, I don't get why it would be relevant to what I said unless you were to include all his lines and then have a Peter Griffin like epiphany. You mentioned Dr. Strangelove ... I just gave you the right quote from the movie... relax dude. Pap Uhotih wrote: I think you are struggling with the logic involved. If you bring sufficient defence then there is nothing for that defence force to do. That is not fun for the defence force, no matter what they watch other people do (within the current limitations of character interaction). There is no case for bringing insufficient defence when you vastly out number the enemy. No, there's not ... but if you know that bringing all 100 dudes in your corp will get them do dock up, don't bring all 100. Set up smaller gangs (say 10) - roam looking for WTs who think they're "safe" because you're a mining corp -> have killed several people this way (probed them in their mission). - if you can't probe their mission, just watch the gate(s) that they have to go through to get "home" defence -> no enemy -> nothing for the defenders to do -> boredom -> might as well have not logged on Pap Uhotih wrote: Mining etc., pretty pointless if you have to give a sufficiently sized defence force a cut. Missions you can get away with but it is a bit of contradiction to fill your time with PvE when you are at war which should really be keeping you occupied with PvP. Trading and manufacturing isn't relevant, war can make it more irritating but doesn't stop anything as those activities largely take place in stations, wars are only a week long and it's hardly a challenge to ship something through a third party if it needs moving that badly. Mining -> you don't need a huge fleet to "defend". Yeah, you might need a big fleet to actually curb-stomp them, but a handful of hero tackle and griffins/falcons will let the guys mining GTFO (some miners may die to alpha, but that's what skiffs are for). Missions -> better than ship spinning (debatable -- I'd rather ship spin). Trade/Mfg -> happens in station yes, but can still get messed up. I mean it seems you've got this hard limit of "no war = do whatever the hell you want" and "war = all PVP all the time". It's not like that -- wars just allow CONCORD-free combat between two parties. Wouldn't you agree that it is more damaging to their morale (and boosting to yours) to see your corporation flipping them the bird and continuing to do whatever while still under the "duress" of a war?
Velicitia Emergent Avionics 1794	Posted - 2013.11.06 17:39:00 - [10] - Quote Krixtal Icefluxor wrote: Velicitia wrote: Krixtal Icefluxor wrote: Velicitia wrote: It's the same bogus argument that the IAA uses -- "anyone who downloads [movie\|song] represents a lost sale of that [movie\|song]". This is actually a patently true statement. Such a process involves absolutely no sale or further monetary compensation towards the artist, and, sorry, that point cannot even be argued. Great de-railer though, and most indeed. There is no guarantee that a person downloading a song would have ever bought it in the first place, thus they cannot (by definition) be considered a "lost sale" (unless you're counting every single time someone walks past your item on the shelf as a "lost sale" ... in which case, everyone is guilty of causing serious economic harm to the IAA and the artists they represent). So I can just walk into K-Mart and walk out with some window blinds and not pay, since I didn't need them and probably would not have purchased them anyway ? no. store has 5 blinds to sell, you steal one... store has 4 blinds to sell. IAA has 5 [movies\|songs] to sell ... you download one ... they still have 5 to sell. I'm not saying it's "not wrong" to download the thing ... I'm just saying that the argument of the IAA of "we lose $20 for EVERY SINGLE DOWNLOAD" is an invalid argument.
Velicitia Emergent Avionics 1796	Posted - 2013.11.06 18:41:00 - [11] - Quote Solstice Project wrote: Baaldor wrote: CCP has made a lot of changes, some good and some bad. Stating CCP has made some changes does not support or give validity to the idea of changing a fundamental part of the game. Not only that, no one has shown proof that you have large numbers of player leaving the game. All that has been brought forward is a bunch of "I knew this one guy who had a friend that watched his cousin rage quit because someone ganked his buddies ship...and it was just not fair." This entire thread has been is a big social agenda sandy va jay jay rant. Not empty quoting. I guess what would really help the game is kicking all the wannabe white-knights out of it. Right next to all the morons who specifically target noobs and, to make sure it's done properly, all the vets in starter corps giving new players bad advises. +1 spacelike for you, good sir. I still remember my first forays into lowsec (and dying horribly) ... and then getting convo'd by (or maybe convo'ing) the person who saved my terribly fit frigate from itself. Alas, killmail changes and new computers have destroyed the convo and record... it boiled down to the simple things : 1. Dual tanking is bad 2. Shields on a tristan is bad 3. Try this fit, and when you get into a cruiser ... this is a nice 'rax fit.
Velicitia Emergent Avionics 1799	Posted - 2013.11.06 19:09:00 - [12] - Quote Upon reading what you said again I see you weren't actually quoting the movie (I read it originally as you trying to quote the movie with "you can't fight this is war" )... but that's neither here nor there.. (pulled out the quote because "5 times per reply" rule... ) Pap Uhotih wrote: If you know the maximum size that the enemy force can be and can easily match it then it seems a little more than daft to bring a smaller force GÇô the aggressor chose a war against a ridiculous number of players, it isnGÇÖt the defenders duty to roll over and die in some bizarre gesture of sympathy. I canGÇÖt say that I have read GÇÿThe art of WarGÇÖ but IGÇÖm assuming that GÇÿhave less guns than the enemyGÇÖ isnGÇÖt a quote. Who said anything about rolling over and dying? You're looking for a fight, and apparently bringing your full fleet to the party results in them hiding, so bring a smaller fleet to entice them out. Using your numbers for attackers and defenders: ATK = 20; DEF = 100; result = no fight ATK = 20; DEF = 50; result = probably not ATK = 20; DEF = 20; result = 50/50 ATK = 20; DEF = 10; result = decent chance of a fight ATK = 20; DEF = 6; The enemy outnumbers us by a paltry three to one. (result = It's a trap!) Seriously, I'm not saying "only have n pilots available" but that you will have a much higher chance of getting that fight you so desperately want if your whole defence plan isn't just "5:1 in our favor". Pap Uhotih wrote: ItGÇÖs generally accepted that no one that declares war in high sec leaves high sec, obviously there are places to go to do other things, but that isnGÇÖt fighting a war. We have guns, ships, ammunition and people but an aggressor that refuses to be in any way aggressive. A war system where both parties in the war go to great lengths to avoid each other for the duration is not edge of your seat game play, its boring. Um, I said "take the fight to them" (with the caveat of "well, if you can't probe them, then camp the return gate"). Seriously, it's not all that uncommon to see hised "wardec corps" do the dec, and then act as if nothing changes for them (because they're usually hunting mining corps who cannot or will not fight back). Got a 'cane that way once ... Quote: I think you are basically confirming boredom. Because I'm advocating that a corp who has been dec'd should do things to allow them to attempt to go about "normal business" ? Yeah, doing those things isn't the awesome 2,000 man engagements that happen in KW- ... but it's still better than "do nothing" Quote: I think you mean wouldnGÇÖt it be nice if we just undocked in defenceless ships so the GÇÿl33tGÇÖ pvpGÇÖers can get their risk free kills and frankly no, we would like to shoot the enemy a lot during a war. We all have to suffer the inconvenience, so it doesnGÇÖt seem unreasonable that we should all get to shoot at them. The aggressor opted for the odds to be against them and if they are punching above their weight then they should have to suffer the consequences, there should be an element of risk for them. War should be damaging to the corps involved. what the ... I don't even? Where did you come to the conclusion that I want to see people undock in only defenseless things?
Velicitia Emergent Avionics 1799	Posted - 2013.11.06 19:13:00 - [13] - Quote J'Poll wrote: To add to this: http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=8419886 Did I leave....nope. I was mad when it happened. Now a days I just look at it as a very very expensive lesson learned when I was a noob. The people who leave cause of the wars, they just dont have the correct mindset for EVE in the first place. PLEX got a good haul that time ... hope someone was able to scoop the loot (or at least the PLEX) and get them back to station... ISD might not like the KM linking ... even though it is yours.
Velicitia Emergent Avionics 1799	Posted - 2013.11.06 19:35:00 - [14] - Quote J'Poll wrote: Well if ISD doesnt like me posting a ridiculous loss...of myself, so be it. yeah they're kinda "letter of the law" and not "spirit of the law" in ISD (which is unfortunate). Hopefully the won't wig out too much. Also, next time you're gonna undock with PLEX, mind letting me know?
Velicitia Emergent Avionics 1802	Posted - 2013.11.06 21:17:00 - [15] - Quote Zheng'Yi Sao wrote: (stuff) You will do well here. Carry on.
Velicitia Emergent Avionics 1807	Posted - 2013.11.07 16:28:00 - [16] - Quote Destiny Corrupted wrote: (stuff)] PARAGRAPHS! for the love of the flying spaghetti monster use paragraphs!
Velicitia Emergent Avionics 1807	Posted - 2013.11.07 16:36:00 - [17] - Quote fuer0n wrote: Velicitia wrote: Destiny Corrupted wrote: (stuff)] PARAGRAPHS! for the love of the flying spaghetti monster use paragraphs! im lillitarate but how many languages can you speak? talk. I've forgotten Spanish, Italian, and Russian from lack of usage after uni (not that I was ever any good at them anyway) ... so currently, English and a smattering of random words/phrases from the afore-mentioned languages ... Not that I really know what that has to do with the complaint of DC using walls of text... ?
Velicitia Emergent Avionics 1807	Posted - 2013.11.07 16:46:00 - [18] - Quote fuer0n wrote: how cant you forget? Assuming you're asking "how can I forget" those languages ... well, it's kind of difficult to remember them 6+ years after you've studied them for only a brief period of time (each one approximately 2 semesters) -- especially when what you do know hardly constitutes as "fluent".
Velicitia Emergent Avionics 1808	Posted - 2013.11.07 16:54:00 - [19] - Quote J'Poll wrote: So. The aggressors dont log on. HOW is that affecting the defenders. They cant kill you when not logged in. I have mined and missioned in the past while under a wardec. Add them to your watchlist, be on your toes when one of them is online. If they are all offline, what is different then not wardecced. It's probably some variation of thinking "every gate in lowsec is camped" (because we all know that's true). Although I will cede that with certain tactics (coughOOC alts and logon trapscough) there's always the possibility you'll get stomped on the undock. Also, if you do get dec'd, I'll join in ... I'll probably do more dying in hilarious and avoidable ways than anything; but it'll be fun anyway. In case anyone's concerned - I know it's not.
Velicitia Emergent Avionics 1808	Posted - 2013.11.07 16:56:00 - [20] - Quote fuer0n wrote: Velicitia wrote: fuer0n wrote: how cant you forget? Assuming you're asking "how can I forget" those languages ... well, it's kind of difficult to remember them 6+ years after you've studied them for only a brief period of time (each one approximately 2 semesters) -- especially when what you do know hardly constitutes as "fluent". **** you get down and talk to the locals next time best advice can give you if your telling the truth it's quite difficult to talk to the "locals" when they're half a world away. Flights across the Atlantic are expensive...
Velicitia Emergent Avionics 1808	Posted - 2013.11.07 17:32:00 - [21] - Quote J'Poll wrote: Btw, fixing a stupid grammar error in your English: (stuff) 3.) well deal with it. ill borrow you my bike Should be: Well deal with it. I'll borrow you my bike So, don't start talking language / grammar if you suck it at yourself. Only go Grammar **** if you know what YOU'RE doing. p.s. English is NOT my native language. Dunno if this is UK-English, but over here (America) one would say "I'll lend you my bike". In either case, a bike will be terrible for crossing the Atlantic Ocean. However, enough money to purchase a plane ticket would work ... but as I said, it's expensive -- $1000 for a round-trip ticket from the local international airport to Copenhagen, Denmark --> I hear it's a beautiful city -- and this is before you consider hotel, food, transportation, etc. BUT ANYWAY; to get back on topic ... wars are still fine, complaining about them is not fine. Solutions are numerous: 1. Learn PvP yourself (generally by losing loads of cheap frigates), either alone or when your corp gets dec'd or by joining RvB. 2. Learn PvP from classes (e.g. Agony Unleashed) 3. Learn PvP from your corpies (e.g. Brave Newbies/E-UNI)
Velicitia Emergent Avionics 1809	Posted - 2013.11.07 18:18:00 - [22] - Quote Cyborg 497 wrote: Tippia wrote: Cyborg 497 wrote: The changes being proposed are small; incremental increases to wardecs. What is wrong with that!?! Simple: there's no reason for doing so. That makes it inherently wrong. Figure out if there's anything even remotely resembling a problem. Then figure out what the causes of that problem are. Then figure out the myriad of solutions to those causes. Then figure out which of those solutions would have the least impact on the game overall. Jumping straight to the end without any of the intervening steps means the proposed solution is 100% awful by default. Hey I agree with your point Tippia! I see a real problem with multiple wardecs. I also see the issue that wardecs are too cheap. Making them a bit more expensive to the aggressor will not stop the wardecs, but will make them consider wardeccing more selectively. You and several others see no problem whatsoever. That's where we disagree and where CCP have to decide one way or the other. In the end, we all want what is best for the great game that is Eve Online. Wardecs have already been made more expensive, and yet here people are whining that "hey CCP, make them more expensive and they'll go away". historical fact time 1. Corp to corp wardecs (e.g. Emergent Avionics to CDG Playgrounds) cost 2 million. 2. Corp to alliance (or alliance to corp) cost 50 million. These days: Corp to Corp wardec (Emergent Avionics to some dead-looking 5 man one because I wanted a moon) cost 50 million. Corp to Alliance (or Alliance to corp) -- IDK, haven't bothered with this one yet.
Velicitia Emergent Avionics 1809	Posted - 2013.11.07 18:19:00 - [23] - Quote Princess Bride wrote: J'Poll wrote: Princess Bride wrote: J'Poll wrote: And how is changing the war mechanics going to help NEW players (who start in a NPC corp, who can't be wardecced). Because many of them join player corps early. They are encouraged to do so at every turn: In the forums, in the help channels, by CCP, by other players, etc. I know...I'm a NCQA regular, and on that same forum there is a great guide on how to find a PROPER corp. And a PROPER corp will help you during wardecs They will have counter measures, tips and tricks, PvP players to defend you etc. etc. That's fantastic. It's too bad so many new players don't automagically know where to find the best resources. If only we had a properly updated official wiki with everything you need to know as a new player. But we don't. hint: you (or any EVE subscriber) can edit it.
Velicitia Emergent Avionics 1809	Posted - 2013.11.07 18:22:00 - [24] - Quote Princess Bride wrote: Velicitia wrote: hint: you (or any EVE subscriber) can edit it. Thanks for the hint. So why haven't you added your suggested resource to it yet? what resource is that? I think you're confusing me with someone else.
Velicitia Emergent Avionics 1809	Posted - 2013.11.07 18:29:00 - [25] - Quote Cyborg 497 wrote: Velicitia wrote: Wardecs have already been made more expensive, and yet here people are whining that "hey CCP, make them more expensive and they'll go away". I wish some of exponents of wardecs would represent the counter argument accurately rather than exaggerate to prove a point. I'm sorry, what? I'm pretty sure I pointed out that 'decs have been made more expensive these days.
Velicitia Emergent Avionics 1810	Posted - 2013.11.07 18:36:00 - [26] - Quote Princess Bride wrote: 1) You do realize that most new players don't read the forums right? Does this mean they are worthless players and should be excluded? 2) Help channel? LOL. More trolls there than in the forums. Is anyone who gets bad advice in the help channel a worthless player that should be excluded? 3) So the unlucky ones that get wardecced early, get frustrated, and quit are worthless players and should be excluded? No, I am not a whiner. No, I do not make it sound like "you are wardecced the second you make a corp." And, more ad hominem please, you are just proving my point for me. 1. That's unfortunate . Perhaps they should. 2. Maybe I'm in a different help channel than you ... it's usually pretty much "correct" in the advice given to people. Yes, people will give snarky answers from time to time; but I have not seen where a blatantly wrong answer was not quickly corrected. 3. Don't see "worthless" player being thrown around by anyone by you. However, the "unlucky" people to have been on the receiving end of a wardec (and getting frustrated and quitting) should have known better -- generally when I see those "unlucky souls", they have assumed that EVE corporations are just as worthless as a guild in most other MMOs (i.e. just a group with a unique banner, nothing more). EVE is very much like RL in the sense of "what you don't know can harm you" (laws are a good example -- not knowing that you're breaking a law does not exonerate you -- the judge pretty much tells you "too bad").
Velicitia Emergent Avionics 1810	Posted - 2013.11.07 18:58:00 - [27] - Quote Princess Bride wrote: J'Poll wrote: And don't backfire it....you brought up the outdated wiki...but YOU can also edit it. You complained about it, not me or Velic So because I point out a problem means I am personally responsible for fixing it? And anyone who didn't bring it up is absolved from any responsibility? I believe the point J is making is that "since you saw it, how about you fix it instead of waiting for someone else to do it for you". He's already said his reasons for not updating it (i.e. "Lazy"). I barely look at the wiki, because I'm familiar enough with Eve to get myself killed without help ... though there have been times where I've seen things wrong (broken links, poorly worded explanations) and have corrected it. Quote: They need time to undertake the task. Exactly -- which is why rushing off and creating "3 man rookie corp 12,000" after a week and then bitching that CCP needs to change (list of things) to make EVE better garners so much negativity from the older players. They haven't been in game long enough to understand what it is they're doing. Hell, a rookie in one of the public channels I'm part of did this ... myself and one of the other vets were like "WTF are you thinking!" (to which the rookie was like "meh, just a tax corp, if I get dec'd i move on, no biggie") As far as getting in a ****** corp vs. a good corp goes, people make mistakes ... I could follow that "guide to joining a corp" to the letter and still **** it up and end up in a corp I don't fit in with that well.
Velicitia Emergent Avionics 1810	Posted - 2013.11.07 19:46:00 - [28] - Quote Princess Bride wrote: Velicitia wrote: Exactly -- which is why rushing off and creating "3 man rookie corp 12,000" after a week and then bitching that CCP needs to change (list of things) to make EVE better garners so much negativity from the older players. They haven't been in game long enough to understand what it is they're doing. Hell, a rookie in one of the public channels I'm part of did this ... myself and one of the other vets were like "WTF are you thinking!" (to which the rookie was like "meh, just a tax corp, if I get dec'd i move on, no biggie") As far as getting in a ****** corp vs. a good corp goes, people make mistakes ... I could follow that "guide to joining a corp" to the letter and still ** it up and end up in a corp I don't fit in with that well. Why do people in this thread continually insist that their story about "this one time at band camp" has persuasive power? For the 5th time or so, your "cool story" about "this one noob I saw one time" is not a large enough sample to support any kind of persuasive argument. It is a logical fallacy. It has a name. That name is Hasty Generalization. In other words, no one cares about your story, fictional or fact, because I can just as easily cite another story, fact or fiction, to counter it because it reads exactly the opposite. this one time, at band camp, I took a flute and ... It's a bad argument from both sides really -- the so-called "anti PvP" people tout stories of a 5 man corp absolutely ruining their experience and pushing some of their corpies from the game (etc). Which are countered with the "EVE is fine (more or less)" crowd showing that the first group is wrong. It's neither here nor there -- if you could look at the numbers (and get accurate data -- good luck there ) you'd probably see that at the end of the day it's a wash. However, the problems with collecting this kind of data pretty much center on people themselves -- we're generally loathe to say "I made a mistake". Ganked untanked barge -> blames ganker Scammed person -> blames scammer Defending WT -> blames attacker The thing is, in many cases it can be easily avoided: Barge -> tank it Scam -> Read the contract twice, and then 2 more times before hitting "accept" WT -> maybe "come at me, bro" was a bad idea. Princess Bride wrote:** As for your first point about noobs who start corps too early... Are you suggesting that maybe it shouldn't be so easy to start a new corp? That's actually not a bad idea. Maybe instead of upping the cost of wardecs, they should up the cost of starting a corp. Yes, it is too easy to start a new corp for the wrong reasons. I don't think upping the cost of forming a corp is the way to go, because you won't necessarily get to the root of the problem -- which is a lack of information/education about EVE. Really the core of the problem is that people think of "sandbox" and "playing the way I want" like this: _______ ..... _________ \|my way\| ......\|your way\| \|______\|......\|_______\| (i.e. they're totally separate) When the reality is _____________________ \|my way\| conflict \| your way\| \|______\|______\|_______\| (yay for ASCII venn diagrams!)
Velicitia Emergent Avionics 1812	Posted - 2013.11.07 20:53:00 - [29] - Quote Zheng'Yi Sao wrote: We should always examine ourselves first... EVE is a rough and tumble game which caters to a certain mindset. It has been around ten years now, so I think they have something going for them. New players who cannot adapt SHOULD leave. I don't mean to be rude, but the game is obviously not to your liking. Everyone is entitled to a pleasurable game experience, in the game that they choose. However, a game has to fit your personality. Don't ask a game to adapt to you. Bow out gracefully. Second... I find it interesting the polarity between Bears and Carebears. Each is determined to have their own way of life. The Bears, at least, stand up and go make the lives of Carebears more difficult. On the one hand, they are forcing their way of life onto another gamer. I think some of them can be as closed minded as the Carebears they seek to destroy. The thing you're missing is not that the "bears" as you call them are not necessarily being close minded. A lot of the "older" eve players have come to EvE after having lived through the tragedies of other companies making games "easier" (e.g. Trammel, or the SWG "NPE"). While it is "close minded", it's because these people have seen what happens when you start making drastic changes to "keep the new players" (or make your game look enticing to them) -- they'll play it so long as it's the FOTM, but aren't necessarily gonna stick around. Zheng'Yi Sao wrote: I say bring it. Leave things exactly the way they are. You don't like my mining? Too bad. I'll fight for my rocks... More people like you and "carebear" might just go back to meaning what it used to... also you're making the other carebears look bad, you'll be thrown out of their ranks in ... 3 ... 2 ... 1.
Velicitia Emergent Avionics 1813	Posted - 2013.11.07 21:24:00 - [30] - Quote Princess Bride wrote: Why should it be a given that any change which helps new players must not in any way benefit old players as well, or it automatically becomes a bad idea? Only in Eve would a win/win scenario be seen as defective because it's win/win. I trust you are familiar with "Malcanis' Law" ... if you are not, the basic gist is "Any idea touted for the benefit of new players, will invariably be more beneficial to older/more established players" In general then, making wars more expensive (good for newbies) will be even better for older players. "Expensive" wars (note - they already have been made 25x more expensive for inter-corporation wars ... give or take) simply mean that the poorer aren't able to dec as much. However, since "newer" corps blatantly advertise some form of wealth (POS, Orca support, barges, whatever), they will overall remain at the top of the pile for "juicy targets"
Velicitia Emergent Avionics 1813	Posted - 2013.11.07 21:25:00 - [31] - Quote Jythier Smith wrote: Zheng'Yi Sao wrote: Velicitia wrote: The thing you're missing is not that the "bears" as you call them are not necessarily being close minded. A lot of the "older" eve players have come to EvE after having lived through the tragedies of other companies making games "easier" (e.g. Trammel, or the SWG "NPE"). While it is "close minded", it's because these people have seen what happens when you start making drastic changes to "keep the new players" (or make your game look enticing to them) -- they'll play it so long as it's the FOTM, but aren't necessarily gonna stick around. Point taken. Velicitia wrote: More people like you and "carebear" might just go back to meaning what it used to... also you're making the other carebears look bad, you'll be thrown out of their ranks in ... 3 ... 2 ... 1. ... welcome to being a "griefer". Your benefits packet is with the courier service and will be delivered within the next 3-5 business days. we hope you will enjoy your stay. I'm not sure if that is good or bad, lol. My corp mates are gonna kill me when they start reading my posts, though it isn't like they run and hide during wartime. We did have one fall asleep at the barge, but he had his reasons You might have some idea why my CEO calls me the firecracker now... How do you mine and fight at the same time? Generally you don't ... but if you check out Youtube, there are some vids of people doing just that.
Velicitia Emergent Avionics 1814	Posted - 2013.11.07 21:39:00 - [32] - Quote Zheng'Yi Sao wrote: (continuing to make carebears in general look like petulant children) I like the cut of your jib...
Velicitia Emergent Avionics 1814	Posted - 2013.11.07 21:52:00 - [33] - Quote Princess Bride wrote: J'Poll wrote: So if a new player after 2 days start a corp and gets wardecced by some PvP group, he can petition them. As the PvP has nothing to gain from the wardec other then grief kills of new player frigates. Quote: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3607446#post3607446 GM Spiral wrote: "One of our wartargets include some newer players. Will we get in trouble for shooting them?" Generally, no. Rookies contacting us with concerns in this regard will in most cases be directed to rejoin NPC corporations so that they may complete their tutorials and career missions in relative peace. Camping a station in a rookie system for rookie war targets may result in accidents involving other rookie pilots so we do not recommend doing so and may cause us to have a word with you. Read the underlined...I'm quoting an official GM here. So there you go, you now have the official statement of CCP regarding wardecs vs new players. Problem solved. Thread closed. You lose. Not exactly an elegant solution, but it does recognize that wardecs on new players is a problem that CCP is trying to address. This just proves that the answer to the question posed by the OP "Does WAR make (new) players leave EVE", according to CCP is, "Yes. That's why we are making a rule about it." Also, in order to even know he can petition, this requires that said new player dig up a locked thread in forums that most new players never even read. Even if by some miracle he finds it, he can petition, but "in most cases" CCP will just have him drop (disband) the corp he formed. In other words, the new player gets punished for petitioning, as the only negative impact is on the new player. no, CCP is just telling new players that they should leave corp if they don't want to be at war. They're saying NOTHING about "srsly older dudes, don't dec them". they go on to say "don't chase them into the rookie systems so you don't accidentally someone else" which is fair warning. Rookie systems have been in EVE for several years now.
Velicitia Emergent Avionics 1814	Posted - 2013.11.07 22:20:00 - [34] - Quote Alavaria Fera wrote: J'Poll wrote: I love how 3 individual people all read that rule in exactly the same way and you are the only person in EVE who reads it as: Yes there is a problem with the war mechanic. Does this means we all are wrong, or you are wrong? You are sociopaths and bad people least we're not goons (grr goons)
Velicitia Emergent Avionics 1814	Posted - 2013.11.07 22:26:00 - [35] - Quote Baaldor wrote: It is not a bad thing to be a Goon, I know far worse groups to be associated with...you know who I have not heard from for a long time..Jade Constantine. yeah, they're just hte bad guys du jour ... 5 years ago it was "grrr BoB"
Velicitia Emergent Avionics 1814	Posted - 2013.11.07 22:56:00 - [36] - Quote Princess Bride wrote: What you were saying, in full, was that CCP already has rules to protect new players...FROM WARDECS. As a matter of fact, the exact wording you used was, "I'm quoting an official GM here. So there you go, you now have the official statement of CCP regarding wardecs vs new players." You went on to quote the specific situation of a wardecced noob, and that attacking a noob like that is PETITIONABLE. And now you are saying that CCP was not addressing the subject of wardecs?! Make up your mind please, because it can't be both true and false. (PS: One day I WILL stop to amaze you.) The only "protection" rookies get is that it's a bannable offence to do most "normal EVE" things to a rookie when in the confines of the 25 "rookie systems". CCP's stance on wardecs against new players is "you joined a corp, you can get dec'd". CCP is not "protecting" new players from wardecs. Anyone and everyone can drop corp if they get dec'd. I suppose the "hey guys, just don't camp them into a noob system station" could be considered "protecting" them in some fashion ... but it's more a "seriously, we expect you're gonna get trigger happy and shoot the wrong guy" (or be the cause of some other confusion for the rookie, causing them to die).
Velicitia Emergent Avionics 1817	Posted - 2013.11.07 23:46:00 - [37] - Quote Cyborg 497 wrote: Wardecs are 50million right now. That's the price of a Drake, 1 BC. It's far too cheap. Here's what I would suggest: Wardec a Corps to cost 100million a week plus 1 million per member of defending corps over 50 - ceiling limit of 500m Wardec an Alliance 200million a week plus 1m per member over 50 - same limit Double that for any subseequent wardec ongoing (not sure about this, depends on whether the hike is enough to control wild wardecs as we have today). This would protect new player corps better and allow players to learn more about Eve before the game gets more serious. As pointed out by one of the wardec advocates, making war is not generally a money-making enterprise. However, even with these changes, you would still have war, wardecs, ganking and the like. Everyone is happy! Wardecs used to be TWO MILLION. They were (only quite recently) raised to what they cost now; due to the carebears whining that 2m was too cheap. 18 months later (tops) they're whining (again) that they're too cheap.
Velicitia Emergent Avionics 1817	Posted - 2013.11.07 23:49:00 - [38] - Quote Princess Bride wrote: Velicitia wrote: The only "protection" rookies get is that it's a bannable offence to do most "normal EVE" things to a rookie when in the confines of the 25 "rookie systems". Not true. In the linked thread, GM Spiral said: "Pilots found to pursue activities against new players in other areas may be subject to further restrictions as deemed necessary by CCP Games Customer Support Team." Actually, that's on the "Rookie Systems" wiki page. You might want to read the whole quote. Here it is in case you don't wanna go look again. GM Spiral wrote: "Pilots found to pursue activities against new players in other areas may be subject to further restrictions as deemed necessary by CCP Games Customer Support Team." We understand that this is causing some level of concern. This should only ever be applicable to those that have been found to be serious repeat offenders to the overall policy. Such an individual may be directed by customer support to cease all hostilities against new players (or rookies), enforced through section 6 of the Terms of Service. "Pursuing activities against" is not the occasional gank or target of opportunity outside of rookie systems. (emphasis added)
Velicitia Emergent Avionics 1817	Posted - 2013.11.08 00:39:00 - [39] - Quote Cyborg 497 wrote: Zheng'Yi Sao wrote: Cyborg 497 wrote: Everyone is happy! I was going to say no, because I am starting to think that complaining is a style of EVE play; but that would be illogical as these people would still be happy. Cyborg 497 wins... Hurrah! I win!!! Seriously, raising the cost from 50m to 100m is not going to endanger the wardec mechanic, but will make them think a little more carefully about whom and how many they do wardec! No more frivolous wardecs! Eve will increase even more in active players!! CCP will start making "real" money and challenge some of the higher populated MMOs without compromising their hard-core game structure. This is the exact same argument that was used to bump 'decs from 2 million to 50 million in Inferno. Or, close enough anyway.Here's the devblog about it Perhaps it is you who needs to adapt to things, rather than continually requesting CCP to make things "harder" for the people looking for wars? I mean, there has already been a 25x cost increase to wars ... there's only so much that CCP can do to placate "the newbies" before they start alienating the vets (who are more or less guaranteed money, sometimes several times over because of alts). edit --> furthermore, you're in a NPC corp and have no say on the matter. Please either post with your main or join a player corporation.
Velicitia Emergent Avionics 1818	Posted - 2013.11.08 02:19:00 - [40] - Quote Cyborg 497 wrote: The past is done, the problem hasn't gone away. Wardecs are too cheap, that much is clear! 100m is a nice round number and very affordable to wardec another corp and sustain that war. It might however impact on the numerous 'joke' wardecs made by some. This will allow new corps to thrive and encourage players to leave an NPC corp. And your last remark, that I should join a player corp, is that so you can wardec that one because you can't defend your argument? That's been a common reaction from the advocates of wardecs, to the detriment of any valid case they may have. Perhaps the "cost" of the wardec isn't the problem then, and if CCP were to change the cost (again) to placate the people whining that "just a little higher, and the price will be good" ... they'll just come back in a year and a half with the same whining, except now "100m isn't enough, 200m will stop the decs". As for my join a player corp comment -- nope, just being snarky because either: 1. You're a forum alt and should sack up and post with your main. 2. You've legitimately never been in a player corp, and thus have no experience with which to make reasoned decisions about the topic at hand, and are just regurgitating the carebear "ebil ganker" rhetoric. If I wanted to shoot you bad enough, I could always just run a locator on you (but then again ... you're probably just a forum alt and not worth the time. And just in case you're concerned I'm an ebil ganker
Velicitia Emergent Avionics 1818	Posted - 2013.11.08 02:40:00 - [41] - Quote Rekon X wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: So, let's examine this. "Wardecs make noobs quit!" No, they don't, noobs are in NPC corps and are immune to wardecs. Further, the option to rejoin NPC corps and become immune to wardecs again always exists. Knowledge of this is readily available. "Wardecs are bad for small corps!" Good. Small carebear corps need to be stamped out like the cockroaches they are. It's the small carebear corps that are the real problem for player retention. I'll explain why. Noobs start in highsec. Small carebear corps litter highsec like trash by the side of a highway. As a result, frequently the first people a noob will be presented with are the small carebear corps. And then the small carebear corps proceed to teach the noobs that PvP'ers are bad awful people, that you should never undock or do anything during a wardec, that the best use of your time is mining or grinding missions, the two more boring, mind numbingly bad aspects of this game. And telling you that's all you can do in the game, otherwise you will get snapped up by all the sociopaths who live in low/nullsec. Spreading their sickness to the noobs. Telling them that they only real way to play this game is to focus with laser sharpness on the most boring activities possible. And that the people who reject this and, gasp, do PvP, are evil hideous monsters and you wouldn't want to be one of those, right? And we really wonder why player retention sucks? If anything, we should cheapen wardecs, so these parasites can be stamped out and stop corrupting the newbies. And everyone needs to play the game the way you want them to play. This will probably help http://www.psychologytoday.com/conditions/narcissistic-personality-disorder No, but the people Kaaros is making a point of are the types who believe they should be allowed to play eve without ever having anything "bad" imposed on them (because it's not how they want to play). That goes against the very core of EVE.
Velicitia Emergent Avionics 1822	Posted - 2013.11.08 10:43:00 - [42] - Quote Mythrandier wrote: Cyborg 497 wrote: Eve will increase even more in active players!! CCP will start making "real" money and challenge some of the higher populated MMOs without compromising their hard-core game structure. Cool! Thats AMAZING! I assume, of course, that you have evidence to back this statement up, or are you just spouting your opinion as fact again? more likely the latter.
Velicitia Emergent Avionics 1822	Posted - 2013.11.08 11:32:00 - [43] - Quote Rekon X wrote: Eliminate sec status on systems altogether. Hisec wardecers would be the first to leave the game for the same reason they don't go to low/npc null to pvp. The rest of you can fight over who is camping the noob systems to kill all the noobs when they leave their rookie system. Um, because they wouldn't need to bother with a dec anymore? I like where you're going with this -- BUFF NEW EDEN, REMOVE HISEC!
Velicitia Emergent Avionics 1824	Posted - 2013.11.08 13:12:00 - [44] - Quote J'Poll wrote: The new players that join a good corp with a solid backbone that know more then "ARGH, We are wardecced, stay docked guys" dont leave, even if they receive a wardec. It's because the ones that join such a corp will get help on how to deal with a war, how to minimize the risk of losses etc. I ran a (terrible) newbie-friendly corp for a while (~2 years). First dec we get, either I or the one other vet (RL friend I dragged back in ) had this conversation with each rookie (individually if we could): Vet - Can you fly any of the frigate fits in the corp fittings library (explain how to check). Rookie -> I can fly [some list of them] Vet - pick up to two that sound fun Rookie -> uh ... [ships] Vet - OK thank you. I expect to see you in them tomorrow - we need you in on this. Rookie I can't PVP!!! (stuff) (fear) Vet - relax. just show up tomorrow. this'll be good. (next day) Rabble of rookies - um you said that ... Vet - check your ship hangars newbros Rookies - Vet - we expect you to lose these. Don't ** us over and hide in station -- keep in mind, "fly safe" tho ... so don't go hero tackle someone without backup Rookies - rabble rabble rabble vet - so our first order of business is that we know these dudes think they're free to mission in [system]. we know those agents will send them to [places]. You guys with the "late" names (V/X/S/etc) are to roam around them and find a WT (who we know are online) and report back. We'll tell you where to meet up for fireworks. (time) Rookie - Got WT in [link system]! 2x hurricanes Vet - OK PPL, we're forming up on [some gate] in [system]. Rookies who're out, meet us there. (little more time) someone - gate activation! get ready tackle! (WT decloaks) vets - GOGOGOGOGOGO (tackle, ewar, KM -- ***** ROOKIE GOT IT) \o/ Next Dec: Rookie(s) - hey, can I try out [some other fit] instead for this one? vet - catch rookie(s) - \o/ edit -- third dec: "Rookie(s)" -- I'm gonna try this, I've got 10 of 'em vets - \o/
Velicitia Emergent Avionics 1826	Posted - 2013.11.08 13:26:00 - [45] - Quote Mythrandier wrote: Cyborg 497 wrote: A modest increase in wardec costs from 50m to 100m is not going to change the game drastically. But it will reduce the number of frivolous wardecs people can just toss around like confetti. I still don't see why so many of you object to that increase!?! War dec used to cost 2mill, the now cost 50mil. ThatGÇÖs a 25 times increase in cost, war decs still happen. Why do you think increasing them again by a factor of 2 is going to stop people from wardeccing your carebear corp? FYI -- he's a Noobcorp character. Anything he says about the "problem" with wardecs is invalid by default.
Velicitia Emergent Avionics 1828	Posted - 2013.11.08 15:19:00 - [46] - Quote Omar Alharazaad wrote: Cyborg 497: I've been in a 1 man corp for 4 years, no frivolous wardecs yet. I assume tho that if I do ruffle someone's feathers enough I'll eventually get one. I'm not really scary, so I don't think that is the reason. I'm beginning to think that this issue with wardecs upon small player corps you seem to have stems from your original post, that perhaps you or someone near you was an asshat and suddenly had to face the consequences of your or their actions as a result... and it didn't sit well with you. While EVE has only a few similarities to the real world, suffering consequences for behaving badly is one of them. Making wardecs more expensive wont stop them, it will simply increase the amount of ISK that your aggressor is going to demand to stop the war. Push that number high enough and you'll be facing bankruptcy in order to bring the war to a halt... oh, wait, never mind. You are in a NPC corp, so you don't have to worry about that.... carry on. Edit: Apparently I AM drunk enough to be posting in GD. running locators now. This weekend should be fun Really, the thing with "1 man" corps is that they're generally not worth the cost to dec, because you're gonna spend 50m on a dec, and they just don't show. And now you've wasted 50m. I roll 1 man right now, because I don't want to actually CEO ... but NPC corp chat gives you cancer. I figure that if I wanted to, I could "probably" dec up to a 10 man corp and be able to have fights that aren't too terribly in their favor (unless they continually bring 10:1 odds, then I'm not getting out alive any way you look at it). However, if they're bringing 3:1 or 5:1, I should still have a chance to take 1 or 2 with me... and that's fun.
Velicitia Emergent Avionics 1830	Posted - 2013.11.08 15:55:00 - [47] - Quote Omar Alharazaad wrote: I know. I'm only worried that I might die while flying something that's shitfit... kinda like getting hit by a bus while wearing granny panties. Edit: will make it easy for you... Oipo(sp) or Venilen are places I like to hang out near, also have bits and pieces near Hentogaira/Vasala. Currently in Amarr space, but you know... have gun, will travel. Oipo, not oimo... damn me... I blame the beer! sounds good, if my ISP decides to stop ******* with me, I'll be there. as for comic fun ... well, I'm terrible at PvP also .. only "expensive kills" I ever get are when I'm KM whoring.
Velicitia Emergent Avionics 1830	Posted - 2013.11.08 16:20:00 - [48] - Quote Omar Alharazaad wrote: Cyborg 497 wrote: Omar Alharazaad wrote: I have sunday off work if you wanna blow each other up. I have extremely limited pvp experience so it should be comically fun. Sounds alright! Meet me outside Jita 4-4. (If I'm not there, start without me). I think you and I are fundamentally not getting each others' points here. I was just granted a 1 vs 1 wardec and am frankly almost as excited as if it were a blind date. I'm pretty sure I'm going to blow up repeatedly, and yet this appeals to me greatly. I've run missions since I started the game, and quit several times, seven years ago. This is a real opportunity to fight with someone who wants to, no hatred involved, and I'm really looking forward to it. Yes, I'm a dedicated carebear, but at the same time this is something different, something new. If I die in a fire I plan on doing so while cackling madly, most likely drunk while doing so. I love this game for what it is, I don't think that changing it to make it easier will make it better. Edit: and yeah, I only go to Jita when I want to unload loot... I don't really consider it a place to really stay for any period of time... sort of like Juarez, Mexico. Drunk eve best EVE. I'll bring Jack. Too bad it's a Sunday, otherwise we could get totally wasted and try killing each other with our capsules EDIT -- although for one night of fun we could just throw up a duel -- still have 15 minutes after last shot fired ... so setting up several frigates with which to quickly reship should let us fight several times (without a 50m waste of ISK -- which we can use to pay for catalysts to say 'hi' to that noobcorp guy
Velicitia Emergent Avionics 1830	Posted - 2013.11.08 16:35:00 - [49] - Quote Omar Alharazaad wrote: I'm a beer guy, personally. Sam Adams. Best American domestic beer on the market. However, if whiskey would be better I can sport a bottle of Jameson's and we can get really freaky.... battle badgers? +1 on Sam Adams :) ed -- and battle badgers too! you're goin down! lolllolol
Velicitia Emergent Avionics 1830	Posted - 2013.11.08 16:36:00 - [50] - Quote J'Poll wrote: Cyborg 497 wrote: To refer to all new small corps as "parasites" is a generalization and insulting, to justify the excessive number of wardecs some *mickey mouse* psuedo pvp corp can presently afford. The true parasites are the gankers who loot off others IMO. The psuedo PVP corps I call them, as they are merely high sec griefers and not serious pvpers (no matter how good at PVP they may be) are effectively a nuisance to anyone who wants to form a new corp. What is wrong with somebody wishing to start up his or her own corp, and then recruit people to that organization? It doesn't have to be good, there's no requisite for that. It's just part of the freedom allowed in Eve. The an exclusively high sec PVP corp can wardec them and others, but should have restrictions, namely a 100million cost, to limit the number of frivolous wardecs they do. This will allow many fledgling corps to improve and adjust therefore enlightening newcomers to the world which Eve has to offer. And also, I find the missioning, mining and whole market interesting which has been lovingly created, so don't knock it! so you complain that PvP force PvE on the maggots...uhm, carebears. yet you want the system so that PvP guys cant play their game. but Im done reacting to someone who is to scared to post with his main / hides in the NPC start corp and then talks about wardecs, you are even worse then the people who have fail corps with perma wars. how about you get in on some 3-way war/duel action with me and Omar?
Velicitia Emergent Avionics 1830	Posted - 2013.11.08 16:45:00 - [51] - Quote Lyris Nairn wrote: I don't know or care about your empire wardecs, but a good sov war gets my blood flowing and gives cause for dozens if not hundreds or thousands of accounts to resubscribe. Proof that the OP is horribly wrong -- I'm agreeing with a goon.
Velicitia Emergent Avionics 1831	Posted - 2013.11.08 17:13:00 - [52] - Quote Omar Alharazaad wrote: .. and now I KNOW I'm truly drunk enough to be posting in GD, yay me. You might be bordering on "too drunk"
Velicitia Emergent Avionics 1835	Posted - 2013.11.08 18:36:00 - [53] - Quote J'Poll wrote: And I'm actually amazed that in these 20+ pages....only 3 people that posted are supporting the idea that wardec mechanics are wrong and CCP should change the game so it will be safe for them to carebear. think they're all in noob (or at least NPC) corps too.
Velicitia Emergent Avionics 1838	Posted - 2013.11.08 22:05:00 - [54] - Quote Pap Uhotih wrote: It took Velicitia a little time to realise what a duel was for but then invited you for a three way fight - highlighting where the war system unquestionably fails. well, actually, the 'dec was because Omar said he had never gotten a "frivolous" dec ever so I gave him what he wanted. We've chatted a bit ingame now, and this is gonna be hilarious, because at the end of the day ... who doesn't like exploding space-pixels?
Velicitia Emergent Avionics 1842	Posted - 2013.11.09 01:39:00 - [55] - Quote Pap Uhotih wrote: Shooting stuff is good but war tends to require 159 hours more hassle than is really required. If towers were involved then yeah, the week is about right to kill them, smalls take 4-5 hours (assuming they were bad and forgot the stront and hardeners). 3-4 days if stronted (RF being 1d 16h, IIRC) Personally, since I don't play 23/7 like you apparently do, a war is ALWAYS going to involve a lot of "wasted time" (because hell, I'm only playing 15h/week on the best of weeks as it stands) ... and even with that, 3 and change million per hour of being allowed to freely shoot an entire corp's worth of people is worth it. Maybe not necessarily when the corp is one man like this time ... but meh If I get lucky, I'll destroy 50m isk and at least break even in the numbers (since technically, I'm down 50m in the "ISK battle" and the war hasn't even started yet) ... if I don't, then he won ... simples. Really, I was just joking around with the locator crack (figured he'd just not sign in)-- it was a few evemails later that Omar was like "nah, seriously, I asked for it ... this sounds fun"
Velicitia Emergent Avionics 1844	Posted - 2013.11.09 02:26:00 - [56] - Quote J'Poll wrote: Velicitia wrote: J'Poll wrote: And I'm actually amazed that in these 20+ pages....only 3 people that posted are supporting the idea that wardec mechanics are wrong and CCP should change the game so it will be safe for them to carebear. think they're all in noob (or at least NPC) corps too. Nope, Mr peanut-head is in his one man corp with his own alt.
Velicitia Emergent Avionics 1862	Posted - 2013.11.22 14:47:00 - [57] - Quote oh good god, this thread still hasn't been locked? One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia

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