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ElQuirko
Jester Syndicate WHY so Seri0Us
2377
|
Posted - 2013.11.05 18:58:00 -
[1] - Quote
http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/sisters-of-eve-faction-ships/
Am I imagining something? I swear there was meant to be one. |

Antillie Sa'Kan
Forging Industries Silent Infinity
145
|
Posted - 2013.11.05 19:04:00 -
[2] - Quote
Do we really need a battleship focused on lasers/drones and exploration? What could it do that the current SoE cruiser could not? Do we really want a battleship with a Covert Ops cloak? Especially one with 125 mbps of bonused drones and bonused lasers? Might such a ship be a bit OP? |

ElQuirko
Jester Syndicate WHY so Seri0Us
2377
|
Posted - 2013.11.05 19:08:00 -
[3] - Quote
Antillie Sa'Kan wrote:
- Do we really need a battleship focused on lasers/drones and exploration?
- What could it do that the current SoE cruiser could not?
- Do we really want a battleship with a Covert Ops cloak? Especially one with 125 mbps of bonused drones and bonused lasers?
- Might such a ship be a bit OP?
1) Yes. 2) Tank more and dish out more DPS. 3) HELL yes. See our gimped blackops range for more information. 4)No, not really. Not like it can avoid bubbles, for example, so you can just burn at it and bump it to decloak it during its sloooooooow align time - it is a battleship, after all. Furthermore CCP aren't stupid - they know how to balance, and a covops BS is likely to have a godawful tank for anything but resist-focused PVE if it's covops cloaky and can pack 125mbps of bonused drones and lasers. |

Pollux 'Gemini
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2013.11.05 19:14:00 -
[4] - Quote
The Nestor, the theoretical ship in question had a description up on the test server a few builds back, what happened to it though I do not know if anyone knows. In reality it may have just been too difficult to balance a cloaky battleship, which is likely why the Black Ops have taken so long to come to rebalancing as well, my 2 cents. |

Antillie Sa'Kan
Forging Industries Silent Infinity
145
|
Posted - 2013.11.05 19:18:00 -
[5] - Quote
ElQuirko wrote:1) Yes. 2) Tank more and dish out more DPS. 3) HELL yes. See our gimped blackops range for more information. 4)No, not really. Not like it can avoid bubbles, for example, so you can just burn at it and bump it to decloak it during its sloooooooow align time - it is a battleship, after all. Furthermore CCP aren't stupid - they know how to balance, and a covops BS is likely to have a godawful tank for anything but resist-focused PVE if it's covops cloaky and can pack 125mbps of bonused drones and lasers. 1. Please elaborate on why. Specifically what unique role it would fill.
2. This by itself is not a reason for a ship to exist and it would only serve to make the other SoE ships and exploration fitted T3's redundant.
3. Access to Cov Ops cloaks will not fix Black Ops.
4. So a 1000+ DPS ship with a cov ops cloak, great projection, great application, flexible damage types, low ammo needs, partially capless weapons, and a tanking bonus wouldn't be OP at all? Really? Please explain.
You are basically proposing a Navy Dominix with a stronger tank, more fittings, more slots, a scanning bonus, and a covert ops cloak. To suggest that such a ship would not be OP is just silly. |

ElQuirko
Jester Syndicate WHY so Seri0Us
2377
|
Posted - 2013.11.05 19:25:00 -
[6] - Quote
Antillie Sa'Kan wrote: 1. Please elaborate on why. Specifically what unique role it would fill.
2. This by itself is not a reason for a ship to exist and it would only serve to make the other SoE ships and exploration fitted T3's redundant.
3. Access to Cov Ops cloaks will not fix Black Ops.
4. So a 1000+ DPS ship with a cov ops cloak, great projection, great application, flexible damage types, low ammo needs, partially capless weapons, and a tanking bonus wouldn't be OP at all? Really? Please explain.
You are basically proposing a Navy Dominix with a stronger tank, more fittings, more slots, a scanning bonus, and a covert ops cloak. To suggest that such a ship would not be OP is just silly.
1. Well, for a start, it would encourage greater travel around lowsec and nullsec for PVE. I've known people to let escalations go just because they're slightly outside blue space.
2. It's plenty reason. You may as well say the existence of the megathron currently obsoletes the brutix, thorax and incursus. Does it?
3. It'll go some way to doing so.
4. Apologies, I forgot the parts where I apparently mentioned projection, application and partially capless lasers that can somehow change damage types. Sorry, my mistake - glad you put the words in my mouth for me.
I am proposing no such thing, my boy. For a start I specifically mentioned the fact that the tank would almost certainly have to be weaker - look at the stratios, for example. It has an inferior tank to most cruisers. I've also stated that balance would be a part of the creation of said ship. And honestly, with local in the current state it is, a cloak isn't much of an empowerment. |

Antillie Sa'Kan
Forging Industries Silent Infinity
145
|
Posted - 2013.11.05 19:49:00 -
[7] - Quote
ElQuirko wrote:1. Well, for a start, it would encourage greater travel around lowsec and nullsec for PVE. I've known people to let escalations go just because they're slightly outside blue space.
2. It's plenty reason. You may as well say the existence of the megathron currently obsoletes the brutix, thorax and incursus. Does it?
3. It'll go some way to doing so.
4. Apologies, I forgot the parts where I apparently mentioned projection, application and partially capless lasers that can somehow change damage types. Sorry, my mistake - glad you put the words in my mouth for me.
I am proposing no such thing, my boy. For a start I specifically mentioned the fact that the tank would almost certainly have to be weaker - look at the stratios, for example. It has an inferior tank to most cruisers. I've also stated that balance would be a part of the creation of said ship. And honestly, with local in the current state it is, a cloak isn't much of an empowerment. 1. So? Risk vs reward.
2. Not really. The Megathron doesn't track small targets as well as a smaller ship does. This is not the case with a drone boat. It also has more range on its weapons than a smaller hull. Also not the case with a drone boat. The Megathron is also slower and more expensive than say, a Thorax. It also requires more training.
3. Please elaborate.
4. I guess you forgot about how drones can easily switch damage types, are mostly immune to ewar, use no cap, and how amazing sentry drones are for raw DPS, projection, and application.
Having a weak tank for a BS is still a pretty strong tank for a subcap. And its probably going to get +4% armor resists per level so reps will count for more. And the cov ops cloak is very powerful, it lets you pick your fights and become unprobable on demand with almost no penalty. |

ElQuirko
Jester Syndicate WHY so Seri0Us
2380
|
Posted - 2013.11.05 19:58:00 -
[8] - Quote
Antillie Sa'Kan wrote: 1. So? Risk vs reward.
2. Not really. The Megathron doesn't track small targets as well as a smaller ship does. This is not the case with a drone boat. It also has more range on its weapons than a smaller hull. Also not the case with a drone boat. The Megathron is also slower and more expensive than say, a Vexor.
3. Please elaborate.
4. I guess you forgot about how drones can easily switch damage types, are mostly immune to ewar, use no cap, and how amazing sentry drones are for raw DPS, projection, and application.
Having a weak tank for a BS is still a pretty strong tank for a subcap. And its probably going to get +4% armor resists per level so reps will count for more. And the cov ops cloak is very powerful, it lets you pick your fights and become unprobable on demand with almost no penalty.
1. And, in risking a more expensive faction BS hull, people are given access to greater rewards. It just facilitates things, catalyzes them.
2. However, drone sizes do have tracking differences. If they whip out large drones for a small target, the drones will never hit them. If they whip out small drones, the drones are easier to destroy. A SoE battleship would also be slower and more expensive than the Stratios.
3. Blackops battleships are largely confined to POSes or single-drop attacks with an insta-jump escape. A covops cloak is more likely to encourage blackops pilots to take an active role in covops gangs, rather than being the mule.
4. Can we talk about limited drone bays please? If you're trying to pack a flight of every damage type, you're going to run out of drone bay space reeeeeal fast. If we're going to complain about weapons types that are capless and have great damage projection and dps, let's talk about projectile weapons and missiles, shall we? Immune to ewar - great. Just pop them, no more drone.
Having a weak tank for a BS is having a medium-range tank for a battlecruiser. "Probably" means nothing, and +4% means nowhere near as much for active tanking as +5% did, that's why they removed that extra 5%. How many people are going to have both battleship sets to V, anyway? Plenty of lazy trainers. The Dscan lets you pick your fights and the logoff button makes you unprobable on demand - gonna nerf those? Before you say "that's stupid", they are both actively used in combat, admittedly one more so than the other.
|

Iudicium Vastus
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
150
|
Posted - 2013.11.05 20:06:00 -
[9] - Quote
A BS being OP because of covert cloak? nahh. The pure fact of being a BS is gimp enough. Even more-so with the super slow warp speed changes to anything above cruiser making it more difficult to be a BS pilot for anything. How many people go in small gangs or even solo in a BS compared to any other class of ship? |

Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
486
|
Posted - 2013.11.05 20:50:00 -
[10] - Quote
Nestor wasn't planned for Rubicon, as it wasn't ready. Probably talking Rubicon 1.1 release if we are lucky. However it certainly appears planned. It also makes Lore sense to stagger the SoE ships role out as they are releasing the Frigs & Cruisers for the new ghost sites as I understand the lore, which means initially they are going to only let the smaller ships out then as the threat ramps up we will get the BS. |

Akrasjel Lanate
Naquatech Conglomerate Naquatech Syndicate
1249
|
Posted - 2013.11.05 20:51:00 -
[11] - Quote
There was no SOE BS for Rubicon ever mentioned by CCP... yet
SOON TM |

Antillie Sa'Kan
Forging Industries Silent Infinity
145
|
Posted - 2013.11.05 21:22:00 -
[12] - Quote
ElQuirko wrote:1. And, in risking a more expensive faction BS hull, people are given access to greater rewards. It just facilitates things, catalyzes them.
2. However, drone sizes do have tracking differences. If they whip out large drones for a small target, the drones will never hit them. If they whip out small drones, the drones are easier to destroy. A SoE battleship would also be slower and more expensive than the Stratios.
3. Blackops battleships are largely confined to POSes or single-drop attacks with an insta-jump escape. A covops cloak is more likely to encourage blackops pilots to take an active role in covops gangs, rather than being the mule.
4. Can we talk about limited drone bays please? If you're trying to pack a flight of every damage type, you're going to run out of drone bay space reeeeeal fast. If we're going to complain about weapons types that are capless and have great damage projection and dps, let's talk about projectile weapons and missiles, shall we? Immune to ewar - great. Just pop them, no more drone.
Having a weak tank for a BS is having a medium-range tank for a battlecruiser. "Probably" means nothing, and +4% means nowhere near as much for active tanking as +5% did, that's why they removed that extra 5%. How many people are going to have both battleship sets to V, anyway? Plenty of lazy trainers. The Dscan lets you pick your fights and the logoff button makes you unprobable on demand - gonna nerf those? Before you say "that's stupid", they are both actively used in combat, admittedly one more so than the other.
1. So I guess we never have issues caused by people running around in blobs of super expensive and powerful ships? Right?
2. Irrelevant. Nobody in their right mind would use heavy drones against a frigate. They would switch to lights.
3. How so? Will it let them tank better or do more DPS? Would it somehow protect them from getting pointed when they try to run from a fight? Would it let them jump out faster after a drop? Would it give them a role in a traditional fleet fight?
4. I guess nobody builds entire fleet doctrines around drones. Oh wait... Its not as if the SoE ships have really large drone bays for their hull size or anything.
Even if this new ship has the same raw buffer of a Black Ops the resist bonus will easily push it to 100k EHP or more when fitted while making logistics even more effective than they already are.
Do you not have all racial BS skills to V? I do. I bet a lot of people do.
Dscan really is as good as being there you know. It makes it easy to run around low sec avoiding gate camps. It lets you see exactly where drag bubbles and stuff are in null with total safety so you know which celestial to bounce off to avoid them, how far from the gate the other guy is, ect. And wouldn't it be wonderful if there was a way to drop aggression timers and make yourself totally safe at any safe spot with just the logoff button without needing to bother fitting a silly cloak? |

Galphii
Oberon Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
187
|
Posted - 2013.11.05 23:57:00 -
[13] - Quote
The power of the Stratios renders BS sized SoE ship irrelevant. If they wanted to do a BS, they would have limited the Strat to medium drones. |

Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor Cosmic Consortium
4259
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 00:07:00 -
[14] - Quote
It would not surprise me to see the Nestor released when CCP is done with the Black Ops rebalance.
Only because I think that's what the Nestor will be: the first of the pirate faction Black Ops battleships.
|

Meyr
SiN Corp Advent of Fate
116
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 01:05:00 -
[15] - Quote
ElQuirko wrote:Antillie Sa'Kan wrote:
- Do we really need a battleship focused on lasers/drones and exploration?
- What could it do that the current SoE cruiser could not?
- Do we really want a battleship with a Covert Ops cloak? Especially one with 125 mbps of bonused drones and bonused lasers?
- Might such a ship be a bit OP?
1) Yes. 2) Tank more and dish out more DPS. 3) HELL yes. See our gimped blackops range for more information. 4)No, not really. Not like it can avoid bubbles, for example, so you can just burn at it and bump it to decloak it during its sloooooooow align time - it is a battleship, after all. Furthermore CCP aren't stupid - they know how to balance, and a covops BS is likely to have a godawful tank for anything but resist-focused PVE if it's covops cloaky and can pack 125mbps of bonused drones and lasers.
I heartily endorse the above-mentioned product and/or service!
Honestly, I don't see a problem with a Pirate BS that will cost 50% more than other pirate battleships beng slightly "OP" in terms of having similar bonuses and cpabilities to the current SoE cruiser. That rare person who uses it in PVP will be placing a large bounty upon their ship (and, likely, capsule, for good measure).
If it keeps the current capabilities for Exploration, that will definitely take away from its PVP capabilities - no weapon damage bonuses, armor tank (few DDA's), etc. Can you make it a Glass Cannon? Certainly. I can do it with any ship in the game that is combat oriented. This is nothing new.
Make it required to successfully complete the highest level of Ghost Sites (some combination of incoming DPS and various gates), and you'll certainly limit its use in PVP. |

Thaddeus Eggeras
TwoTenX LEGIO ASTARTES ARCANUM
64
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 01:52:00 -
[16] - Quote
The point to having a SOE battleship is that ALL other pirate factions have frigates, cruisers and battleships. so as CCP is trying to make everything more equal and balanced, I'd say the SOE need a battleship for that reason if nothing else. Now I think if they do make one, which they should have to it shouldn't be able to cloaky warp, as there are no battleships able to cloak warp.
SOE do need a BS though and there also needs to be a Cald/Min pirate faction race now as well. |

Onslaughtor
Alexylva Paradox
60
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 04:01:00 -
[17] - Quote
My feeling is that they will release the Nestor when they rebalanced the Blackops. Likely in the 1.1, 1.2, or the next expansion. |

Malcolm Malicious
Malware Detected Brave Collective
45
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 04:05:00 -
[18] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:We hope you guys enjoy the new ships, and make sure to keep your eyes peeled following Rubicon, the Sisters of EVE may not be done giving us new toys quite yetGǪ |

ElQuirko
Jester Syndicate WHY so Seri0Us
2392
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 16:56:00 -
[19] - Quote
Antillie Sa'Kan wrote:1. So I guess we never have issues caused by people running around in blobs of super expensive and powerful ships? Right?2. Irrelevant. Nobody in their right mind would use heavy drones against a frigate. They would switch to lights. 3. How so? Will it let them tank better or do more DPS? Would it somehow protect them from getting pointed when they try to run from a fight? Would it let them jump out faster after a drop? Would it give them a role in a traditional fleet fight? 4. I guess nobody builds entire fleet doctrines around drones. Oh wait... Its not as if the SoE ships have really large drone bays for their hull size or anything. Even if this new ship has the same raw buffer as a Black Ops the resist bonus will easily push it to 100k EHP or more when fitted while making logistics even more effective than they already are. Do you not have all racial BS skills to V? I do. I bet a lot of people do. It not like tons of cap pilots didn't train for either Gallente or Amarr capitals and then cross train to the other one back when you needed BS V for caps... wait.... Dscan really is as good as being there you know. It makes it easy to run around low sec avoiding gate camps without a scout. It lets you see exactly where drag bubbles are in null with total safety so you know which celestial to bounce off to avoid them, how far from the gate the other guy is, ect. Oh wait, that's the cov ops cloak that does that, silly me. And wouldn't it be wonderful if there was a way to drop aggression timers and make yourself totally safe at any safe spot with just the logoff button instantly without needing to bother fitting a silly cloak? 1. Yes, because covops ships are well-known for making great "blob" ships. Mhm. No problems using cloaks in blobs at all.
2. Great, so now we know they've used 150m3 of their 200m3 dronebay. What were you saying about rainbow damage?
3. Sir, you've just negated your own argument against this ship using a covops cloak. Bravo.
4. I guess nobody uses battleships for those doctrines either. Especially not 1bil+ pirate battleships.
Logistics - the ship class well-known for being great with covert ships. You really don't seem to have much faith in CCP's ability to balance, either. You reckon they'll just go "Hurp dee durp there you go we didn't look at the stats"? Get real 
"Tons of cap pilots". And what percentage of the EVE populace do multi-racial capital pilots make, pray tell?
Yes, I forgot the covops cloak negated drag bubbles, made you immortal and turned off all timers. Forgive me, I'm away with the fairies. |

FlinchingNinja Kishunuba
Crunchy Crunchy Zero Hour Alliance
188
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 17:27:00 -
[20] - Quote
Give it a bonus to rhml and probe strength. Keep it as armour but give it a much larger signature than other bs. Also give it a bonus to anchoring mobile depots. Maybe a bonus to armour repper drones. |

ElQuirko
Jester Syndicate WHY so Seri0Us
2397
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 17:54:00 -
[21] - Quote
FlinchingNinja Kishunuba wrote:Give it a bonus to rhml and probe strength. Keep it as armour but give it a much larger signature than other bs. Also give it a bonus to anchoring mobile depots. Maybe a bonus to armour repper drones. Like some kind of mothership? |

Kitty Bear
Disturbed Friends Of Diazepam Disturbed Acquaintance
974
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 18:45:00 -
[22] - Quote
Galphii wrote:The power of the Stratios renders BS sized SoE ship irrelevant. If they wanted to do a BS, they would have limited the Strat to medium drones.
maybe you would like to take a few moments to consider the attributes of the Gila
|

ElQuirko
Jester Syndicate WHY so Seri0Us
2397
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 18:51:00 -
[23] - Quote
Kitty Bear wrote:Galphii wrote:The power of the Stratios renders BS sized SoE ship irrelevant. If they wanted to do a BS, they would have limited the Strat to medium drones. maybe you would like to take a few moments to consider the attributes of the Gila *Applause*
Or the Vexor Navy Issue. JS. |

Helios Aquiness
Perkone Caldari State
26
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 19:08:00 -
[24] - Quote
It can be a rookie ship for all I care, I just wanted a Star Distroyer :( |

Antillie Sa'Kan
Forging Industries Silent Infinity
150
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 19:17:00 -
[25] - Quote
Would like to see an SoE battleship. I just feel that 125 mbps of bonused drones and a Covert Ops cloak should be mutually exclusive. |

Kitty Bear
Disturbed Friends Of Diazepam Disturbed Acquaintance
974
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 19:26:00 -
[26] - Quote
why should they be mutually exclusive
drones are a weapon system ... so deploying them whilst cloaked would be the same as shooting lazors/autocannon's whilst cloaked
a non-event. |

Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc
3170
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 19:33:00 -
[27] - Quote
Kitty Bear wrote:why should they be mutually exclusive
drones are a weapon system ... so deploying them whilst cloaked would be the same as shooting lazors/autocannon's whilst cloaked
a non-event. If anything, drones are the worst weapon system to combine with a covert cloak.
Every other weapon system is just fine if the pilot needs to warp off grid. Drones need to be recovered first, making the ability to warp while cloaked something meaningless unless you have extra time after a fight.
Add to that, they have about the slowest time between dropping your cloak and first application of DPS, making a surprise attack anti-climactic to behold. Add to that, the weaker tank is exposed longer to the opponent since your DPS needs to take this extra time.
Blasters, on the other hand, or smart bombs, make better use of the qualities a cloak brings to the table. |

ElQuirko
Jester Syndicate WHY so Seri0Us
2399
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 19:47:00 -
[28] - Quote
Nikk Narrel wrote:If anything, drones are the worst weapon system to combine with a covert cloak.
Every other weapon system is just fine if the pilot needs to warp off grid. Drones need to be recovered first, making the ability to warp while cloaked something meaningless unless you have extra time after a fight.
Add to that, they have about the slowest time between dropping your cloak and first application of DPS, making a surprise attack anti-climactic to behold. Add to that, the weaker tank is exposed longer to the opponent since your DPS needs to take this extra time.
Blasters, on the other hand, or smart bombs, make better use of the qualities a cloak brings to the table. Or bombs.  |

Antillie Sa'Kan
Forging Industries Silent Infinity
150
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 20:42:00 -
[29] - Quote
Hm, I suppose you may be right. I guess I am just very iffy about a Covert Ops cloak paired with a full flight of damage bonused sentry drones as it might step on the toes of several other ships. (Dominix, Ishtar, Navy Vexor, Navy Dominix, Sin) So maybe something like this:
Role Bonus: 50% bonus to Large Energy Turret optimal range Role Bonus: 37.5% increase Scan Prob Strength Role Bonus: +10 Virus strength for Relic and Data Analyzers
Can fit Cover Ops Cloaking devices
Amarr Battleship Bonus: 4% bonus to Armor Resists
Gallente Battleship Bonus: 7.5% bonus to Drone optimal range and Done tracking speed
Slot layout: 6H, 7M, 6L; 5 turrets, 0 launchers ... Drones (bandwidth / bay): 125 / 500 ... Cargo Capacity: 750
With the other stats (speed, fittings, targeting range, ect...) left to whatever CCP feels is balanced. |

BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
Desperado-Enforcement LLC
10
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 21:03:00 -
[30] - Quote
I kinda skimmed the thread but just wanted to add this quote from the recent dev blog.
Quote:We hope you guys enjoy the new ships, and make sure to keep your eyes peeled following Rubicon, the Sisters of EVE may not be done giving us new toys quite yetGǪ
- CCP Rise Source: http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/sisters-of-eve-faction-ships/ |
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