The battle was over before the engagement started, Mr. Anslo.

They never had a chance to win because....they engaged short range brawlers with long range vessels with superior pilot ability and legions worth of drones to swarm them? I'm trying to understand why they would never have even been able to take them on if they had more electronic warfare such as damps...in situations I've been and have been taught by folks from some of the larger low sec groups, once you break a repair chain or ruin their ability to complement each other, you've taken a very, very strong advantage.

But you're saying even IF they had more dampeners, they wouldn't have won anyway? Why?

EDIT: Also I won 40mil. Woo!

What is this thread actually about?

With the numbers being roughly equal every ship you start dedicating to EWAR is a ship you are removing from applying firepower to your enemy. They were already at a significant firepower disadvantage to begin with, compounding the effect would do little. The aggressors in this case had more than enough firepower to not care in the slightest if a few ships were temporarily affected with fickle EWAR. Drones tend to keep fighting regardless as well. Even if jamming or damping began to be an issue, I see enough firepower there to remove such problem ships nearly instantaneously.

'Breaking a repair chain' tends to be more useful for "stand up" fights and not fast moving skirmish gangs.

Again with this sort of firepower output against such small hulls you can often completely ignore the logistics and break through any ship you like in a few volleys. There's simply not enough 'meat' there for them to last long under such duress.

OK I see there was a disconnect in my proposal. I didn't mean switch people out. I literally meant they should have had their fleet as it was+5 more in ewar. I should have clarified that before. Sorry.

But I 100% agree with you and noticed that. Ishtars are not to be taken lightly. That's why I suggested +5 more pilots in ewar to possibly assist. However, the sheer force that is an Ishtar would, in retrospect, make it useless.


I dunno about that. I've studied BALKAN's tactics against enemies and, despite it being a quick skirmish gang fight, they still won the day by breaking the enemy's chain. But hey maybe that's unique to armor.


It was essentially glass bashing cannons against some very very heavy firepower with a good bit of tank to boot. I understand now. Thank you!
....but why were their shield logistics for Deimos and Ishtars? Are they not traditionally armor?...

....but why were their shield logistics for Deimos and Ishtars? Are they not traditionally armor?...

I dunno about that. I've studied BALKAN's tactics against enemies and, despite it being a quick skirmish gang fight, they still won the day by breaking the enemy's chain. But hey maybe that's unique to armor.

....but why were their shield logistics for Deimos and Ishtars? Are they not traditionally armor?...

If you are the ranged skirmish gang orbiting a slower group at range, your logistic are often even further removed from the targets, typically putting them well outside of enemy range. Very hard to break, let along target or tackle.

When you attack a group of ships with logistic support, it is very much a 'judgement call' based on past experience as to whether you have enough firepower to 'muscle through' any repairs being done to your targets. Experienced commanders will usually guess correctly the first time... or very, very quickly adapt and change targets as soon as they see they aren't making progress.

Let me just reach into my magical Bag of Falcon and pull a few out...

If I have any criticism of the enemy side, it is to say that they ought not to trust the people whom they blew up the carrier of an hour before, in the future, to be forgiving.[

Looking at the recent combat records for Coreli corporation and their allies in the Reynire system is this a call to arms out of dubious philanthropy or simply sheer ineptitude?

I've not read everything, but Anslo, you're talking out of your ass.
I think shaving might be in order.

I look forward to watching you slaughter each other.

That is should the toasters bring enough points to counter your absurd amount of warp core stabilisers.


I won't mourn losses either way, die well, and frequently.

Sansha, Gallentes, Serpentis... just different sides of same medal.
They have one common name: Enemies of the State.

We have no need for Shadow Cartel to be forgiving. The Angel Cartel informed us one of their fleets was under attack from a carrier so we lend a hand and destroyed it. If Shadow Cartel wants to avenge it they are welcome to do so.


The Reynire fight took place after this call and there was no ineptitude involved (Well apart from fielding Ashimmu's). We destroyed the TSF customs office after which scouts reported a Shadow Cartel fleet. As our primary purpose behind our low-sec campaign is training our pilots and new fleet commanders we decided to engage them.

After killing a rapier and losing a few tech 1 ships we ran into a stalemate with neither side being able to break each other logistics and as we only brought a very limited amount of strategic assets into the area we had no way of escalating while we knew Shadow Cartel could. So the call was made to pull out, abandon those tackled on field and save the rest. Sometimes you win, and sometimes you lose.

Unfortunately we forgot about actually replacing the TSF customs office so they sneakily dropped a new one.

Come get us.

Shadow Cartel was there before you attacked the POCO, Hulemand. We noticed you 'shooting' at each other in an attempt to bait us out. We also noticed that you all appeared to be shooting at each other with one gun each.

...not break the repping power of 19 guardians...

Not really...? Shadow Cartel weren't on the field until your second POCO was in 40% shield. I understood actually undocking seemed to be an issue for TSF pilots in Reynire that night, but this could've been checked with a simple local check.



Couldn't you have inflated that to a nice round number, like 20 or 25? Or does this make it more believable?

Leo, I know you have this problem with reality, but we were sitting in system and we know what was present. If you don't know how to look at local or Dscan, then that seems to be your problem, not mine.

I believe the only person with a reality problem here is you. You were sitting in system and in the station. If I saw Shadow Cartel on field before your POCO went down, I'm pretty sure I'd memorize something like that.
Snuffbox were there first, we had a skirmish with them, then deagressed. Your POCO on planet II died, then your POCO at planet VI got to 40% shield and Shadow Cartel warped in, then et cetera et cetera, you already read Joshua's report.

I appreciate your whole little campaign, but as a rule of thumb, a person on field has a bit better view than a person sitting in dock with said thumb up their... well, whatever you have in the Nation.

Couldn't you have inflated that to a nice round number, like 20 or 25? Or does this make it more believable?

Wait a minute, are you trying to whip up pointless controversy to draw away attention? Like going full Coreli and fitting stabs on a combat ship, or something?

I wonder why Pyre keeps getting their knickers in a twist against Angels, while damn near supporting the Sansha in these public forums? It's almost as if there's a connection there somewhere. That'd be silly though, wouldn't it?

I wonder why Pyre keeps getting their knickers in a twist against Angels, while damn near supporting the Sansha in these public forums? It's almost as if there's a connection there somewhere. That'd be silly though, wouldn't it?