So the next cat herder arrises to give it a go

Now i have played eve for about three years so im not a newbie.

Sorry hon, but yes, you are... if you where not, you wouldn't feel the need to even make a thread like that. The New Order is a minor nuisance, and all miners in their right mind simply ignore them.

Also: Shields up.

no need to stop selling the ore's just raise prices.

one of two things are going to happen

1. Prices stay high because they wont stop trying to force us to get a permit

OR

2. They will stop forcing a permit and prices will come back down

YOU CHOOSE

I'm convinced.

So the next cat herder arrises to give it a go

It's easy to dodge them if you dont mind jumping systems but why should we have to put up with this.

WE SHOULDN'T HAVE TOO.

So the next cat herder arrises to give it a go

#grrrrgoons #420yoloswag4jesus

Maybe CCP could organise some kind of live event for them?

This will never work. That is all I have to say.

Well, that's the end of the Code then. Well done OP, we had a good run until you and your market wisdom came along!

Mining ships into our staging system instead of razor's please.

Just open a wormhole for them right to the vfk undock, tia

If only it was that easy i dont expect anything over night but i do expect US miners to fight back

expect US miners to fight

miners to fight

i am for ppl leaving US Miners alone

im not here to pick a fight with goon cuz even i know thats not very smart. But what im trying to get across is ppl should leave the miners alone and stop trying to force these permits

LEAVE BRITNEY ALONE - now thats funny lol

As expecting the miners to fight back im not talking about in battle im talking about hitting ppl's pocket books and helping us turn the tide and get ride of these believers of permit mining to walk away and do something else other then waste their days bumping us

If only it was that easy i dont expect anything over night but i do expect US miners to fight back

LEAVE BRITNEY ALONE - now thats funny lol

As expecting the miners to fight back im not talking about in battle im talking about hitting ppl's pocket books and helping us turn the tide and get ride of these believers of permit mining to walk away and do something else other then waste their days bumping us

Just US miners?

What about Australian, Canadian or European miners?

When I say US Miners i am talking about all miners and indy guys in the game

If you're the sort of 'leader' that illiterate miners will rally around, the only way you will be impacting our pocket books is in the most positive way possible.

With enemies like you, who needs friends?

And for it being made for PVPing it takes the indy toons to build your supplies and ships like i asked before

Can you pvp in a pod and yes you may have a rookie ship but you need to have ammo to shoot

My friend is a Miner. He pays gankers to gank other miners all the time. He says it is worth the investment to get rid of or cause economic losses for his direct competition which is in fact other miners.

I love his outlook, which is the more stuff that explodes the more minerals are going to be needed to replace them.

If I own a retail outlet here in my country, I can deny sales to whoever I like.

If we industrialists could have a filter to do the same in the EVE market, it would be a welcome dynamic, in my opinion.

Mr Epeen

Turns out OP is just another alt of James crying for attention.

I'm like, totally shocked. Seriously.

You know, had you just completed the bonus round after your main, you wouldn't be so mad Hitman.

Ikr, he wouldn't even have to join Goons like he wanted in an earlier thread.

He would have been so space rich that he could singlehandedly take down the Goondom.

Cannibal Empire declared war
From: CONCORD
Sent: 2013.11.08 20:27

Cannibal Kane has declared war on Master Builders Incorporated on behalf of Cannibal Empire.

Fun

Im still interested in joining goon and why would i try and take on goon not very smart my friend like i said before im smart enough not to try and take them on

If I own a retail outlet here in my country, I can deny sales to whoever I like.

If we industrialists could have a filter to do the same in the EVE market, it would be a welcome dynamic, in my opinion.

Mr Epeen

What country do you live in? In the European Union and the UK that would be illegal and the Equity Act and the Human Right Act/

What country do you live in? In the European Union and the UK that would be illegal and the Equity Act and the Human Right Act/

Please i am not one of james's alts and that would make no sense to make an alt and counter a code that you tried to start it would like the right hand trying to fight the left hand it makes no sense

Respect.

I love threads like this since I usually see an uptick in my revenue streams for ships and modules.

OP, take a step back and think in terms of every single mineral mined and retail good sold should be under the label of your corporation and if it is not those people are your "real" enemy, not some guy ganking you with a ship and with ammo you just sold him making a heafty profit margin in the process.

You have to recognize that pvpers are just the pawns in the game indutrialist play.

Respect.

I love threads like this since I usually see an uptick in my revenue streams for ships and modules.

OP, take a step back and think in terms of every single mineral mined and retail good sold should be under the label of your corporation and if it is not those people are your "real" enemy, not some guy ganking you with a ship and with ammo you just sold him making a heafty profit margin in the process.

You have to recognize that pvpers are just the pawns in the game indutrialist play.

Respect.

I love threads like this since I usually see an uptick in my revenue streams for ships and modules.

OP, take a step back and think in terms of every single mineral mined and retail good sold should be under the label of your corporation and if it is not those people are your "real" enemy, not some guy ganking you with a ship and with ammo you just sold him making a heafty profit margin in the process.

You have to recognize that pvpers are just the pawns in the game indutrialist play.

YAY! Another Highsec Braveheart / Herding Cats thread!

Its a twofer this week!


They can take our Meow Mix, but they will never take out FREEEEEEEEDOOOOOMMMMMM!!!!!!!!

Gentlemen, we have this month's cat herder. Man your tear-extraction stations.

Also, the economy would stand without miners. The ship market would be kept afloat by people smelting down all the meta-0 to meta-3 items obtained by running missions. T2 modules would go up in price a bit, but lowmeta faction mods can make up for that. Gunmining would take over.

LMAO really you going to declare war because you dont like the idea of miners fighting back

and im not mad about the bonus round in fact you helped me clean out my stations lol. good thing i dont keep things in my own hangars.

Respect.

I love threads like this since I usually see an uptick in my revenue streams for ships and modules.

OP, take a step back and think in terms of every single mineral mined and retail good sold should be under the label of your corporation and if it is not those people are your "real" enemy, not some guy ganking you with a ship and with ammo you just sold him making a heafty profit margin in the process.

You have to recognize that pvpers are just the pawns in the game indutrialist play.

The Miner is a solitairy herbivore, it is rarely seen in herds.

This is why they are easy prey for the Ganker, a carnivore who hunts in packs and has a very complex social structure.

This is why it is less common for Miners to work together than it is for Gankers.

What country do you live in? In the European Union and the UK that would be illegal and the Equity Act and the Human Right Act/

the orca can be tanked to the point that only professional gankers need apply.

and they are in it for the ISKies.

Hey, this might work. Give it a chance.

My point on the orcas, is they wont be bumped off grid if they arent on grid to begin with. Therefore denying the bumper the oppertunity.

i never seem to get bumpers though it's always hot fiery death for me.

confirmed on saints stream, lack of bumpers in new eden.

We need bumper stickers get it ? get it ?!?!?

Do you resist the sales tax imposed whenever you buy and sell on the market interface?

What makes a permit fee any less legitimate?

im not here to pick a fight with goon cuz even i know thats not very smart. But what im trying to get across is ppl should leave the miners alone and stop trying to force these permits

If only it was that easy i dont expect anything over night but i do expect US miners to fight back

SOMEONE OTHER THAN ME SHOULD Group up, hunt them down. Watch them cower in station like the weasels they are.

You going to fight back in a hulk?

This thread just cured my hangover. After several outbursts of laughter the cats are now looking at me like I'm quite mad.
Good luck OP, seriously. Hopefully the near future will help enrich your gaming experience and that of those around you... if I wasn't likely to be a bit busy this week I'd come bring popcorn and watch.

And for it being made for PVPing it takes the indy toons to build your supplies and ships like i asked before

Can you pvp in a pod and yes you may have a rookie ship but you need to have ammo to shoot

Now i have played eve for about three years so im not a newbie. I have noticed that here recently WE MINERS are now being harassed by ppl who think we need a permit to mine. These ppl have forgot that if it was not for us MINERS eve wouldnt be able to stand. We mine, we build, and we put things on market for others to buy in which we make a pretty good profit off of and now we are being asked to pay for a permit. Yes i know that they say that its only 10M per character but if we give into this my friends and fellow miners we are opening up for a lot more to start happening. Look at history the governments that have caused wars within their own countries have taken little by little from their own ppl until finally their ppl had enough and its the same case here in eve if we allow them to get away for this then later on down the road they are going to keep asking for more and more and til there is nothing left to give.

So what i am asking is until these ppl that think they need to govern use pull back and stop this non-sense we raise the prices is eve's market and hold them high. If we do this it will open eve back up to free mining like it should be.

thank you for your participation

The reason you're suffering is because you are a peasant who does peasant work, and you've deluded yourself into thinking that you are something other than a peasant by constructing a fiction in which your peasant work is necessary.

In reality, the absolute worst case (for the rest of us) outcome of your little outburst (assuming, generously, that you could even organize such an event) would be that the price of minerals would rise to a point where the price:effort/time ratio became comparable with other mechanisms for earning in Eve, at which point mining would be more attractive (at least as far as income earned is concerned), and this increase in value would draw previously-unwilling-to-mine players to fill the gap, and a new equilibrium price would be shortly reached.

You would then realize that you had wasted your time and, what's more, the increased prices would entice you to return to mining. You and the rest of the peasants would resume your peasant work, prices would return to their current state, and the net result will have been that you denied yourself weeks or months of mining income in exchange for a brief period of increased margin.

If you don't like this, the solution is simple: Go be something other than a peasant.

I say war dec whatever corp james315 and Erotica 1 is in....

I don't know. Peasants have been known to behead kings when they get angry enough.

Not space peasants.

When I say US Miners i am talking about all miners and indy guys in the game

And typically not unless the hereditary monarch in question has let his armies lapse while spending the funds on edifices of his own self aggrandizement.

And we have seen these past few days, the military might of nullsec is still well cared for.

pheasants brought down the french empire and took the head of their king and if you look at it the king had the same thought process as you do " oh not space pheasants" but anyways for the one who decided to war dec me im not running you want a fight ill give you a fight you might be surprised in what this little miner can do and run

Dear artistically inclined folk:

1. Pheasants bringing down the French Empire.

2. Space pheasants.

3. Space pheasants bringing down the French Empire.

Photoshops, please, pretty-please.

Pheasants did bring down the French Aristocracy.

A large part of the revolution was to do with how well the aristocracy ate compared to the peasants that were starving.

So the pheasants brought down the aristocracy, and the wine, and the swans etc..

Seriously, I can't believe how disappointing the GIS results for "Space pheasant" are. Someone please do something about this.

It doesn't have to be big - maybe just a pheasant with a little space helmet, whatever.

pheasants brought down the french empire and took the head of their king and if you look at it the king had the same thought process as you do " oh not space pheasants" but anyways for the one who decided to war dec me im not running you want a fight ill give you a fight you might be surprised in what this little miner can do and run

yeah it was a typo but the point was still the same I seen why ppl are against this idea but i also think its impart because they are afraid that it just might work.

Its okay to change its called taking baby steps

well im not afraid to fight back and who knows i might shock some ppl i maybe 90 percent indy but i can fight as well

We shall see since you lost 50% of your members in the few hours since the dec.

We shall see since you lost 50% of your members in the few hours since the dec.

LMAO they are my other accounts and there is a reason i dropped them and im going to drop the rest tomorrow

so how smart do you feel now

LMAO they are my other accounts and there is a reason i dropped them and im going to drop the rest tomorrow

so how smart do you feel now

i am just cuz i dropped my other toons from corp doesnt mean that im not going to fight they still need to run their ops like i want them to all the while im the only toon he can touch because of the war he declared dropping ppl from corp doesnt mean im running why is it that everyone thinks that

Wow didn't realize i was back in school.

Dude, school is preparation for the real world. In other words, the things you learn there are things you're supposed to USE, not put aside just because you're not being tested on them anymore. Besides that, you have no place expecting anyone to understand what you're even on about let alone have to read whole paragraphs without their eyes bleeding if you can't at least use some punctuation. How hard is it really to show where your sentences begin and end?

Punctuation isn't just a sign of literacy, but of courtesy and respect for people reading your material. If you don't use it, you won't get a lick of respect from me.

Perhaps if he had stuck around in the Bonus Round all the way to the educational component, his English would be better.

Your still on the bonus round, I have gotten past that and moved on with another Orca on the fire. And you teach me something now that my friend is funny. Lets put it this way, in the seventh grade i was doing college level work. I didn't think on a game that punctuation would make a difference to some but seeing how it does will make an attempt to pay closer attention.

Your still on the bonus round, I have gotten past that and moved on with another Orca on the fire. And you teach me something now that my friend is funny. Lets put it this way, in the seventh grade i was doing college level work. I didn't think on a game that punctuation would make a difference to some but seeing how it does will make an attempt to pay closer attention.

Dude.

If you want to reach people, you have to reach them in the game
and have to put actual effort into it. More than writing a stupid post.

Furthermore are you simply wrong. If all miners suddenly stopped,
it would not only take quite a while until stockpiles are used up,
people would start creating mining alts.

Your still on the bonus round, I have gotten past that and moved on with another Orca on the fire. And you teach me something now that my friend is funny. Lets put it this way, in the seventh grade i was doing college level work. I didn't think on a game that punctuation would make a difference to some but seeing how it does will make an attempt to pay closer attention.

Okay once again i am not asking them to stop mining. I am simply asking them to raise the prices of the things they put on market for sell. There is a difference.

It's always "look at me!!" with you, isn't it.

For the record, I don't believe you that you were doing "college-level work" in the seventh grade, you've given me no reason to believe you, and frankly, I don't have to. However, if you want to go down that route....

I had an IQ of 147 when I was 11. It's gone down since then, to 127, which is a little sad, but in that time I've also learned that IQ isn't the last-word on intelligence, especially given how people like to focus their learning on specific subjects instead of broadening it too much. Given I was in the top 5% of Australian high school graduates, and the top 1% of the ICAS in 1999, a 127 right now isn't terrible. It is, in fact, considered above average.

Considering you can't even differentiate between 'your' and 'you're' that already makes me your intellectual superior by a considerable margin. So if you were doing "college-level" work (what does that even mean?) in seventh grade, then I was inventing Neutronium in first.

I would rather see someone who had their literary discourse criticised in such a way not get on the defensive, admit their fault, and attempt to rectify it. It would be more respectful then some half-arsed attempt to save face with a barely legible claim about intellectual superiority. And the fact that you somehow think your superior intellect excuses you from literacy ANYWHERE makes it even worse, because I guarantee you there isn't one single tertiary graduate with the intellectual level you claim to have that doesn't understand the importance of punctuation, even when abbreviating words in sentences for newspaper headlines or Twitter and the like.

LMAO really. For someone to claim to be so superior it seems as though you cant tell a game from RL. Talk about being defensive, I think I might have hit a nerve lol. And you said it your self ppl with a high IQ mainly focus on one thing, mine was history not on punctuation and the proper structure of a sentence. Honestly i can care less about that. If you read my post earlier i did admit to having bad punctuation and even said i would make a better attempt to correct it. Talk about over looking things. Paying attention must not have been your strong point seeing how you over looked my admission to my fault.

LMAO really. For someone to claim to be so superior it seems as though you cant tell a game from RL.

...mine was history not on punctuation and the proper structure of a sentence.

Paying attention must not have been your strong point seeing how you over looked my admission to my fault.

This has gotten off track of what this post was originally about, miners fighting back against the permits. If you wont to go a battle of wits im more then willing to go there on another day. Lets get back to the focus point thats at hand and its not a punctuation lesson.

Now i have played eve for about three years so im not a newbie.

im not here to pick a fight with goon cuz even i know thats not very smart. But what im trying to get across is ppl should leave the miners alone and stop trying to force these permits

Now i have played eve for about three years so im not a newbie...

GUYS!!!!!! I FOUND A LOOPHOLE IN THE CODE!!!!

If you actually buy a permit, you won't get ganked . . . problem solved!

Now i have played eve for about three years so im not a newbie. I have noticed that here recently WE MINERS are now being harassed by ppl who think we need a permit to mine. These ppl have forgot that if it was not for us MINERS eve wouldnt be able to stand. We mine, we build, and we put things on market for others to buy in which we make a pretty good profit off of and now we are being asked to pay for a permit. Yes i know that they say that its only 10M per character but if we give into this my friends and fellow miners we are opening up for a lot more to start happening. Look at history the governments that have caused wars within their own countries have taken little by little from their own ppl until finally their ppl had enough and its the same case here in eve if we allow them to get away for this then later on down the road they are going to keep asking for more and more and til there is nothing left to give.

So what i am asking is until these ppl that think they need to govern use pull back and stop this non-sense we raise the prices is eve's market and hold them high. If we do this it will open eve back up to free mining like it should be.

thank you for your participation

Oh look it's call for hi-sec unity #23,083

The OP will disappear into the obscurity from whence he came, and paint a large target on everything he flies if he hasn't already, just like the 23,082 people who've attempted to do it before him.

Oh look it's call for hi-sec unity #23,083

Have you heard of Cannibal Kane?
If you haven't I have a strong feeling you will soon.....

It's always "look at me!!" with you, isn't it.

For the record, I don't believe you that you were doing "college-level work" in the seventh grade, you've given me no reason to believe you, and frankly, I don't have to. However, if you want to go down that route....

I had an IQ of 147 when I was 11. It's gone down since then, to 127, which is a little sad, but in that time I've also learned that IQ isn't the last-word on intelligence, especially given how people like to focus their learning on specific subjects instead of broadening it too much. Given I was in the top 5% of Australian high school graduates, and the top 1% of the ICAS in 1999, a 127 right now isn't terrible. It is, in fact, considered above average.

Considering you can't even differentiate between 'your' and 'you're' that already makes me your intellectual superior by a considerable margin. So if you were doing "college-level" work (what does that even mean?) in seventh grade, then I was inventing Neutronium in first.

I would rather see someone who had their literary discourse criticised in such a way not get on the defensive, admit their fault, and attempt to rectify it. It would be more respectful then some half-arsed attempt to save face with a barely legible claim about intellectual superiority. And the fact that you somehow think your superior intellect excuses you from literacy ANYWHERE makes it even worse, because I guarantee you there isn't one single tertiary graduate with the intellectual level you claim to have that doesn't understand the importance of punctuation, even when abbreviating words in sentences for newspaper headlines or Twitter and the like.

It's surprisingly easy to dodge the zealots if you're not AFK-mining / botting.

It's surprisingly easy to dodge the zealots if you're not AFK-mining / botting.

easy, let the miners and indy also sell ganking permits.
Just sell every cat for 12mil , every trashers for 15mil and every nado for 110mil.
Make a stupied website about it, write a couple pages of worthless **** and done.

CCP has NPC's seed the market with minerals ... So the mineral market is already a watered down joke ...

Citation needed, CCP have been dialling down the NPC orders for the last couple of years, and I've never seen a sell order for minerals or ores with a >90 day lifespan.

Tinfoil much?

Citation needed, CCP have been dialling down the NPC orders for the last couple of years, and I've never seen a sell order for minerals or ores with a >90 day lifespan.

Tinfoil much?

LEAVE BRITNEY ALONE!

Dear artistically inclined folk:

1. Pheasants bringing down the French Empire.

2. Space pheasants.

3. Space pheasants bringing down the French Empire.

Photoshops, please, pretty-please.

So the OP logged off about 20 minutes before the war started and has not logged in since.

He has however logged in with the alts that he kicked out of corp mining.

Great way to make to make stand.

So the OP logged off about 20 minutes before the war started and has not logged in since.

He has however logged in with the alts that he kicked out of corp mining.

Great way to make to make stand.

Oh look it's call for hi-sec unity #23,083

To the OP (and other miners).

Escape the clutches of the Order and mine in the free frontier of low sec space. Miners were once the trailblazers of civilisation, exploring and prospecting every dark corner for precious ore. Honour your forefathers and leave the confines of high sec. Miners belong in the frontier.

Now i have played eve for about three years so im not a newbie. I have noticed that here recently WE MINERS are now being harassed by ppl who think we need a permit to mine. These ppl have forgot that if it was not for us MINERS eve wouldnt be able to stand. We mine, we build, and we put things on market for others to buy in which we make a pretty good profit off of and now we are being asked to pay for a permit. Yes i know that they say that its only 10M per character but if we give into this my friends and fellow miners we are opening up for a lot more to start happening. Look at history the governments that have caused wars within their own countries have taken little by little from their own ppl until finally their ppl had enough and its the same case here in eve if we allow them to get away for this then later on down the road they are going to keep asking for more and more and til there is nothing left to give.

So what i am asking is until these ppl that think they need to govern use pull back and stop this non-sense we raise the prices is eve's market and hold them high. If we do this it will open eve back up to free mining like it should be.

thank you for your participation

Wow didn't realize i was back in school.

Think you're talking to an empty chair. He was faced with a challenge to his convictions and bravely fled the premises.

Relevant.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ys4oIwj6yw
Sorry... couldn't help myself.

Turns out OP is just another alt of James crying for attention.

I'm like, totally shocked. Seriously.

So is the whole of eve online in pain yet?

In the past 5 days, the median price of trit is down 0.01 ISK.

MASSIVE IMPACT!!!!

pheasants brought down the french empire and took the head of their king and if you look at it the king had the same thought process as you do " oh not space pheasants" but anyways for the one who decided to war dec me im not running you want a fight ill give you a fight you might be surprised in what this little miner can do and run

I didn't read all the pages, but here's my suggestion........ Move to a different system and mine. Also, fit a F****** TANK. Orbit your rocks. Actually make an effort to survive in this game!!!

Just saying

Now i have played eve for about three years so im not a newbie. I have noticed that here recently WE MINERS are now being harassed by ppl who think we need a permit to mine. These ppl have forgot that if it was not for us MINERS eve wouldnt be able to stand. We mine, we build, and we put things on market for others to buy in which we make a pretty good profit off of and now we are being asked to pay for a permit. Yes i know that they say that its only 10M per character but if we give into this my friends and fellow miners we are opening up for a lot more to start happening. Look at history the governments that have caused wars within their own countries have taken little by little from their own ppl until finally their ppl had enough and its the same case here in eve if we allow them to get away for this then later on down the road they are going to keep asking for more and more and til there is nothing left to give.

So what i am asking is until these ppl that think they need to govern use pull back and stop this non-sense we raise the prices is eve's market and hold them high. If we do this it will open eve back up to free mining like it should be.

thank you for your participation

Now i have played eve for about three years so im not a newbie. I have noticed that here recently WE MINERS are now being harassed by ppl who think we need a permit to mine. These ppl have forgot that if it was not for us MINERS eve wouldnt be able to stand. We mine, we build, and we put things on market for others to buy in which we make a pretty good profit off of and now we are being asked to pay for a permit. Yes i know that they say that its only 10M per character but if we give into this my friends and fellow miners we are opening up for a lot more to start happening. Look at history the governments that have caused wars within their own countries have taken little by little from their own ppl until finally their ppl had enough and its the same case here in eve if we allow them to get away for this then later on down the road they are going to keep asking for more and more and til there is nothing left to give.

So what i am asking is until these ppl that think they need to govern use pull back and stop this non-sense we raise the prices is eve's market and hold them high. If we do this it will open eve back up to free mining like it should be.

thank you for your participation

If I own a retail outlet here in my country, I can deny sales to whoever I like.

If we industrialists could have a filter to do the same in the EVE market, it would be a welcome dynamic, in my opinion.

Mr Epeen

when i first started playing eve, i mined - a LOT. it was the only way i thought i could make steady income. quite frankly, over the last couple of years, i've seen a massive amount of posts that are filled with hatred for miners. personally, i think it's a viable career, but i just don't like doing it as much as exploration, incursions, and especially small gang pvp.

i'm a bit surprised that with all the miner-hatred that's been spewed on the forums, especially by nullbears, that someone hasn't created a petition to have mining ships taken out of eve. of course that wouldn't make sense, but that's how that group comes across on the forums.

i've never been able to discern whether this hatred is aimed at all miners, or just the ones that are botting. if it's the botters, i understand, but if it's towards an actual player that enjoys mining (yep, they're out there), i can't begin to understand why anyone, besides a narcissistic prick, would have a problem with it.

It's a complex situation I've been studying with some fascination since I became aware of the New Order. And it's definitely not just aimed at botters.

I've never been able to discern whether this hatred is aimed at all miners, or just the ones that are botting. if it's the botters, i understand, but if it's towards an actual player that enjoys mining (yep, they're out there), i can't begin to understand why anyone, besides a narcissistic prick, would have a problem with it.

Angry words . . . .

It's a complex situation I've been studying with some fascination since I became aware of the New Order. And it's definitely not just aimed at botters.

I'm similarly mystified as to why a bunch of people minding their own business tend to be the subject of such hatred... but It might be the responses some give when that business is disturbed by bump or gank.

I've actually been reading a number of James 513's Mittani writings - I have a miner, pre-industrialist alt and I tend to spend a fair amount of time in hi-sec, so I figured it's best to understand one's potential enemy - and I went in expecting some sort of disingenuous and elaborate justification for griefing miners, but... reading them, I get the feeling that I am reading the words of a man who genuinely believes that safe hi-sec mining is a blight on the soul of his beloved game.

The argument, as I understand it - and allow me to emphasize that I don't necessarily agree with it; I'm only a few months in and still assessing things, and I'm just trying to understand the social forces and lines of thought at work here - is that high-security mining, whatever it does for the game by providing an income stream for new players, does not by itself make the game interesting compared to the game's PVP engines, and is vulnerable to botting or mostly-AFK work; and that some miners, when ganked or otherwise disrupted, tend to complain loudly about it. Perhaps, some of these complaints have brought about semi-recent changes to high-security to make it safer, like the increased cost of war declarations and some not-insignificant buffs to Mining Barge HP.

If high security is safer and still profitable, goes the reasoning, everyone will go there instead of doing PvP in null or lowsec, and since Eve's bizarre mix of PvPvE is one of the things that makes it unique on the MMO market, anything that drives people away from low/nullsec or even looks like the start of a slippery slope away from it is bad; The doomsday scenario here is EVE one day providing a genuine safe-zone in high-sec, selling its soul to appeal to a wider audience.

And that is why, if I understand correctly, there are people so quick to shout down complaining miners/"Carebears.". If those miners are heard and listened to, Eve eventually loses its soul.

Someone can feel totally free to correct me if I've oversimplified or misunderstood this, though.

And of course, that's the most intellectual argument I've yet heard for a dislike of high-sec mining. Some people likely genuinely are just narcissistic pricks, who see miners as insufficiently aggressive to be playing a cutthroat game like EVE and who don't belong in their testosterone-laden world.

I would feel for you and all hi sec miners if the game mechanics were any different. I would give up enforcing mining permits tomorrow if I believed the miners were in no position to defend themselves. I am a gentle and reasonable man and would never pick on the completely defenseless.

Ask the miners of Piekura, who when they actually want to mine in peace, station a blackbird in their belt to quickly lock and break the targeting of my criminal-flagged catalyst as soon as I land on grid/

Ask the rock eaters of Teonusude, who, tired of my visits and unwilling to purchase permits, switched their mining operations to lower yield procurers and skiffs, ships I absolutely cannot harm with the resources and game mechanics afforded to me.

I am not an evil man. I am playing a game that pits me against illegal miners who have made a conscious choice to operate in a manner which makes them vulnerable to me. I see no issues.