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DrDan21
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
76
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Posted - 2011.11.03 19:17:00 -
[1] - Quote
:welp:
"http://jestertrek.blogspot.com/2011/11/pre-nerfed.html" wrote:all four of the new tier 3 BCs are getting significantly nerfed before they even get released. All four are being reduced from Recon-quality tanks down to T1 cruiser-quality tanks. More significantly, all four are also having their mass significantly increased; this should result in speed reductions of 250-300m/s across the board. More significantly than that, all of them are also receiving large fitting nerfs. The Naga is being hit the hardest, and is losing a low slot, two role bonuses, 40 grid, and 45 CPU. It will be a "dual-bonused" ship for weapons, keeping the hybrid range bonus and the torpedo velocity bonus. That drops it to the least impressive of the four.
The Talos is second-hardest hit, losing its drone bay and its 90% web, but gaining a tracking bonus and a speed increase. CPU and grid are dropping by 40 and 50, respectively. The Oracle is also being hit hard, losing its best-in-class tracking in favor of a cap usage bonus and seeing its range bonus traded for a damage bonus. It's also losing 50 CPU. It's easy to see where these three changes are coming from: someone clearly tried out flights of the newly-buffed destroyers on these three tier 3s... and the destroyers got themselves murdered. That's clearly unacceptable, so every one of these nerfs affects the ability of these ships to track and destroy smaller targets. If these ships are a rock aimed at the scissor of capital ships, CCP obviously wants to make sure that paper still covers rock.
The Tornado is least-affected of the four, only receiving a 30 CPU nerf, which will nevertheless make fitting it much harder. |
Leetha Layne
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2011.11.03 19:19:00 -
[2] - Quote
Nice quote. Who is it? |
DrDan21
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
76
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Posted - 2011.11.03 19:22:00 -
[3] - Quote
Leetha Layne wrote:Nice quote. Who is it? added to initial post |
Songbird
36
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Posted - 2011.11.03 19:26:00 -
[4] - Quote
holy she-et ! |
Duchess Starbuckington
Starbuckington Manor
11
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Posted - 2011.11.03 19:27:00 -
[5] - Quote
Awesome, so the Naga is going from "potentially useful but overshadowed" to "******* worthless".
Seems Caldari aren't supposed to fly anything but the Falcon and Drake. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
1163
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Posted - 2011.11.03 19:30:00 -
[6] - Quote
**** seems a bit short GÇö the only word(s) I can think of to put there is GÇ£sane levelsGÇ¥, but it's both too long and two words. GÇöGÇöGÇö GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ GÇö Karath Piki-á |
Princess Cellestia
Friendship is Podding Test Alliance Please Ignore
84
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Posted - 2011.11.03 19:34:00 -
[7] - Quote
Also take note from what we've seen on the designs, these things will most likely only have 4 guns. Making them even more useless. |
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation
76
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Posted - 2011.11.03 19:40:00 -
[8] - Quote
Duchess Starbuckington wrote:Awesome, so the Naga is going from "potentially useful but overshadowed" to "******* worthless".
Seems Caldari aren't supposed to fly anything but the Falcon and Drake.
Tengu. |
Nimrod Nemesis
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
38
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Posted - 2011.11.03 19:45:00 -
[9] - Quote
Who doesn't want to fly an oversized Merlin that looks like a vertical Charon?
Oh. |
Skippermonkey
Tactical Knightmare
158
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Posted - 2011.11.03 19:48:00 -
[10] - Quote
all the hopes and dreams of hundreds of pod pilots gained from a glimpse at some pre-sisi dataspreadsheet, destroyed in an instant
its BEAUTIFUL! |
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Headerman
Quovis Shadow of xXDEATHXx
303
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Posted - 2011.11.03 20:05:00 -
[11] - Quote
1st draft got drafted again The Apostle : I want a kangeroo Captain Kirk : Silly Austrians Sarmatiko : Let me guess: you're from US? Captain Kirk : Yeah Riverside IA - why? |
Khors
El Barco Pirata
7
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Posted - 2011.11.03 20:05:00 -
[12] - Quote
Who would have known? Praising a ship's capabilities off first-launch Sisi stats, how could that have ever backfired? |
Dark Pangolin
Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse
15
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Posted - 2011.11.03 20:10:00 -
[13] - Quote
"Still, nerfing these ships was the right thing to do. As I've said already, they were too scary in their initial form. "
Forgot to include that part in the quote. We'll see when they actually get released.
I do agree though that all the renderings and models indicate that 3rd Tier BCs are intended to only field 4 guns...and it looks like 4 of the "smaller" Large guns... |
Jill Antaris
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
21
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Posted - 2011.11.03 20:21:00 -
[14] - Quote
The Naga devblog will be a interesting read, given that even before the nerf it didn't look useful.
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Princess Cellestia
Friendship is Podding Test Alliance Please Ignore
85
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Posted - 2011.11.03 20:28:00 -
[15] - Quote
Jill Antaris wrote:The Naga devblog will be a interesting read, given that even before the nerf it didn't look useful.
The naga was awesome. Great dps, decentish tank according to the pyfa release. I was really looking forward to it. A decent fleet of the tier 3s would have made great anti cap/supercap ships. Now, a single mael would alpha these things without a second glance especially with a speed nerf, and with 4 guns, a drake will do more damage with way more tank. These won't be worth flying, since you can just spin them in hanger if you want to look at them.
Naga is still ugly as **** though, so many great caldari designs, they went with one of the worst. |
Spineker
Caldari State
32
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Posted - 2011.11.03 20:32:00 -
[16] - Quote
Nimrod Nemesis wrote:Who doesn't want to fly an oversized Merlin that looks like a vertical Charon?
Oh.
Useless and ugly LMAO
Maybe the Hybrids will be fixed then we will have more Caldari Ships to fly. I will not hold my breath |
river Zateki
Dutch Squad Chained Reactions
1
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Posted - 2011.11.03 20:33:00 -
[17] - Quote
I'm calling bullshit on this. There isnt one use for a ship with 4 guns(without role bonus ofcourse)..a caracel would do more damage then the t3 Bcs then and move faster align faster and have a larger range and BIGGER TANK (see what i did there...caracel...tank...huh?) Seriously, its got to be a lie |
Spineker
Caldari State
32
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Posted - 2011.11.03 20:35:00 -
[18] - Quote
Princess Cellestia wrote:Jill Antaris wrote:The Naga devblog will be a interesting read, given that even before the nerf it didn't look useful.
The naga was awesome. Great dps, decentish tank according to the pyfa release. I was really looking forward to it. A decent fleet of the tier 3s would have made great anti cap/supercap ships. Now, a single mael would alpha these things without a second glance especially with a speed nerf, and with 4 guns, a drake will do more damage with way more tank. These won't be worth flying, since you can just spin them in hanger if you want to look at them. Naga is still ugly as **** though, so many great caldari designs, they went with one of the worst.
And totally out of character for a Caldari Ship it is the stupidest of all ship designs I wonder sometimes if they are not high all day long.
Oh well for some reason I actually had my hopes up for CCP.. |
DrDan21
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
76
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Posted - 2011.11.03 20:44:00 -
[19] - Quote
Dark Pangolin wrote:"Still, nerfing these ships was the right thing to do. As I've said already, they were too scary in their initial form. "
Forgot to include that part in the quote. We'll see when they actually get released.
I do agree though that all the renderings and models indicate that 3rd Tier BCs are intended to only field 4 guns...and it looks like 4 of the "smaller" Large guns...
Dark, The quote was meant to be informative without opinions included
As for the four guns...I feel that if actually implemented will just ruin these ships. |
Dark Pangolin
Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse
15
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Posted - 2011.11.03 20:56:00 -
[20] - Quote
DrDan21 wrote:Dark Pangolin wrote:"Still, nerfing these ships was the right thing to do. As I've said already, they were too scary in their initial form. "
Forgot to include that part in the quote. We'll see when they actually get released.
I do agree though that all the renderings and models indicate that 3rd Tier BCs are intended to only field 4 guns...and it looks like 4 of the "smaller" Large guns... Dark, The quote was meant to be informative without opinions included As for the four guns...I feel that if actually implemented will just ruin these ships.
Dan I did not mean my reply as a jab though now that I re-read it it comes off that way...sorry :) I tend to agree with you on the 4 guns thing...but look at the renderings...look at the hard points
http://cdn1.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/2791/3035/amarrbattlecruiser_wip.jpg
http://cdn1.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/2768/3014/Gallente_ship02.jpg
http://cdn1.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/2765/3001/Minmatar_01.jpg
Just visually it looks like the Amarr one has 4 guns...the Gal 5 guns...and the Tornado 8?...I just don't see the hard-points on that last one. This could all change I'm sure in 2-3 months...but the renderings for sure on the Oracle look like it has 4 darn Dual Mega Pulses... :)
If they are 4 gun platforms lets hope they get a nice bonus... |
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Duchess Starbuckington
Starbuckington Manor
11
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Posted - 2011.11.03 20:59:00 -
[21] - Quote
Quote:And totally out of character for a Caldari Ship
Umm, how? It was made to give pilots the choice between a decent hybrid and missile boat. Going with just one completely shafts people who trained for the other half of the Caldari lineup.
Now it's just awful at both. |
Jill Antaris
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
21
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Posted - 2011.11.03 21:14:00 -
[22] - Quote
Princess Cellestia wrote:Jill Antaris wrote:The Naga devblog will be a interesting read, given that even before the nerf it didn't look useful.
The naga was awesome. Great dps, decentish tank according to the pyfa release. I was really looking forward to it. A decent fleet of the tier 3s would have made great anti cap/supercap ships. Now, a single mael would alpha these things without a second glance especially with a speed nerf, and with 4 guns, a drake will do more damage with way more tank. These won't be worth flying, since you can just spin them in hanger if you want to look at them. Naga is still ugly as **** though, so many great caldari designs, they went with one of the worst.
I actually didn't found it this hot, given that it didn't got the awesome med range abilities of the Tornado or Oracle and torps got far more limitations against sub BS sized targets than the guns.
950 DPS ish fleet torp ship, fitted for maximum anti BS damage, needs a named DCU or a CPU imp. However the range is just like 25km(35 with T2) and with serious dps reduction against sub BS targets. It wasn't particularity fast and at this range where you will have to take massive damage from aks and puls. Basically you could also use a raven with 1-2 nanos on trading 3-400m/s(given that most of your targets would be BS and you need to stay close to them anyway not really a horrible drawback) for a bit more DPS(drones and 2 med guns) and more than twice the EHP.
[Naga, Naga Torps]
Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Juggernaut Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Juggernaut Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Juggernaut Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Juggernaut Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Juggernaut Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Juggernaut Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Juggernaut Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Juggernaut Torpedo
Large Shield Extender II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Dread Guristas Magnetic Scattering Amplifier Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive
Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Damage Control II
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I Medium Core Defence Field Extender I Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
600+ DPS(including the rail damage buff) sniper at 99+49km, however only like 40 ish dps ahead of the old Oracle concept w/o the damage bonus, what means it will be most likely a bit behind for dps at this ranges now.
[Naga, Naga 100km]
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Plutonium Charge L 425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Plutonium Charge L 425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Plutonium Charge L 425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Plutonium Charge L 425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Plutonium Charge L 425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Plutonium Charge L 425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Plutonium Charge L 425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Plutonium Charge L
Large Shield Extender II Invulnerability Field II Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range Invulnerability Field II Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Tracking Enhancer II
Medium Hybrid Locus Coordinator II Medium Core Defence Field Extender I Medium Core Defence Field Extender I |
Princess Cellestia
Friendship is Podding Test Alliance Please Ignore
86
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Posted - 2011.11.03 21:15:00 -
[23] - Quote
Duchess Starbuckington wrote:Quote:And totally out of character for a Caldari Ship Umm, how? It was made to give pilots the choice between a decent hybrid and missile boat. Going with just one completely shafts people who trained for the other half of the Caldari lineup. Now it's just awful at both.
Caldari hasn't been about hybrids for how many years? Just remove the turret slots and hybrid bonuses and make caldari the missile monkeys they should be. Or just make specific ships hybrid and specific ones missiles, split bonuses are stupid. Jack of all trades, master of none.
And I liked the torp naga. Would have been fun as hell. |
kyrv
Love Me Dead ISKoholics Center of Rehabilitation
0
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Posted - 2011.11.03 21:34:00 -
[24] - Quote
Obscene damage's, can't wait.. |
Sylar Reuwich
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
0
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Posted - 2011.11.03 22:23:00 -
[25] - Quote
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=facys8m3i8k
This is horrible.
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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
60
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Posted - 2011.11.03 23:12:00 -
[26] - Quote
Princess Cellestia wrote:
The naga was awesome. Great dps, decentish tank according to the pyfa release. I was really looking forward to it. A decent fleet of the tier 3s would have made great anti cap/supercap ships. Now, a single mael would alpha these things without a second glance especially with a speed nerf, and with 4 guns, a drake will do more damage with way more tank. These won't be worth flying, since you can just spin them in hanger if you want to look at them.
Naga is still ugly as **** though, so many great caldari designs, they went with one of the worst.
The Naga was worthless. It was vastly inferior to the Tornado and Talos close up with blasters or torps, because of its lack of mobility, the difficulty of application of torp DPS to BC hulls and the lack of a blaster damage bonus. It was vastly inferior to all of the others at long range, thanks to the nonexistence of sniping, the alpha of artillery and the raw DPS and tracking of Scorch.
Now it's even worse and the Tornado is basically unchanged. Heh. |
FlinchingNinja Kishunuba
Perkone Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2011.11.03 23:53:00 -
[27] - Quote
So how many people have actually fitted and flown these boats?.... oh right there not released yet... but they are useless?
Assumptions are the mother of all..... |
Jill Antaris
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
21
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Posted - 2011.11.04 00:16:00 -
[28] - Quote
FlinchingNinja Kishunuba wrote:So how many people have actually fitted and flown these boats?.... oh right there not released yet... but they are useless?
It doesn't take rocket science to spot out particular flaws in the baseline design and CCP has a long standing track record of introducing ships to the server that are not very useful. A good example might be the talos that even if not so useful overall had a gimmick that might have been good enough to consider the hull as overall ok(still just a bit faster, more deadly brutix with less EHP) and the general interest in this hull dropped pretty much to zero once CCP removed it. The Naga didn't even start off with something like this, don't offer a niche where it got a clear advantage compared to the Oracle or Tornado and even got the biggest nerf of any of the hulls(the fitting nerfs on the Oracle and Tornado can be compensated with the fitting w/o much lose in performance) while it already was a considerable bit shorter on cpu/pg for a useful fitting than the rest.
Also I am pretty sure CCP did read and considered the input about the tier 3 BCs so far on the forums and will use them to improve the design(hopefully).
|
Barbie D0ll
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
20
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Posted - 2011.11.04 00:17:00 -
[29] - Quote
I swore i saw this coming and commented about it a few days ago and now its coming true https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=299320#post299320 |
Nimrod Nemesis
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
40
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Posted - 2011.11.04 00:42:00 -
[30] - Quote
FlinchingNinja Kishunuba wrote:So how many people have actually fitted and flown these boats?.... oh right there not released yet... but they are useless?
Assumptions are the mother of all.....
Hipster goggles? |
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